Flat tow or toad?

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1PlasticMan1

1PlasticMan1

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Sep 23, 2014
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295
Location
Pocono Pines, PA
We recently completed our "maiden" voyage with our new coach towing a 2008 Chrysler T&C on a Master Tow Dolly with a surge brake, along the coast of New England.  All worked well, except the half hour or so to load or unload the T & C when arriving/leaving the campsite.  When I look at some of my neighbors at various campsites that are flat towing, and are hooked or unhooked in less than ten minutes, I get rather envious.  Also, my tow dolly is difficult to manually move around, due to the weight.  I have been researching flat towing and am somewhat overwhelmed by what is necessary to tow a vehicle - ie disconnect negative terminal, turn on acc ignition, transmission in neutral, additional pump to pump transmission fluid etc.  I didn't see any of my fellow campers doing this, but also did not ask them when I watched them connect their vehicle as I didn't know about that.  I have the 2015 Guide to Dinghy Towing which addresses all of these procedures.  So still don't see how my flat towing campers got away so quickly.
Know flat tow vs. tow dolly has been heavily addressed, but would like to see more current information.
 
only some vehicles can be flat tows - yours is one of them

this is a great website
http://blueox.com/recreational-commercial-flat-towing/ for general info

for your specific vehicle

http://blueox.com/products/baseplates/bx1980-chrysler-town-country/
cheers
 
I have been researching flat towing and am somewhat overwhelmed by what is necessary to tow a vehicle - ie disconnect negative terminal, turn on acc ignition, transmission in neutral, additional pump to pump transmission fluid etc.  I didn't see any of my fellow campers doing this, but also did not ask them when I watched them connect their vehicle as I didn't know about that.
Click to expand...

Not all toads require such things. My 2015 Jeep Wrangler requires putting the transfer case in neutral to tow (with transmission in PARK). That's it. The old 2003 Wrangler I used to have added a key in the ignition turned one click away from on, to release the steering wheel lock. Of the items you've listed above, many toads don't require them all, so what you saw depends on the specific vehicle. Of course there are also plenty of vehicles that cannot be flat towed (or even on a dolly), such as my 2007 F-150 4WD Lariat w/electronic transfer case shifting.
 
Like Larry, my Jeep Wrangler is ridiculously easy to connect/disconnect (flat/four down tow).  There is no messing with the key, steering wheel lock, battery cables, etc.  Ten minutes is a long time, thirty minutes is unthinkable (to me). I timed my routine once - less than 5 minutes to connect (which included driving the Jeep into position) and less than 2 minutes to disconnect (and be ready to drive away).  Obviously, it is not a race so speed is not terribly important - unless you get pinned in a spot that requires you to disconnect to back up so the traffic jam you caused can clear.  :eek:

Good advice on the tow guides.  Some people pick a car by how it feels/drives/looks - some buy it for how easy it is to tow.  ;D
 
We tow my wife's Acura MDX four wheels down, and it only takes about five minutes (or so) to unhook - maybe a few minutes more to hook it up. It takes less than a minute to install/remove the auxiliary brake and flip a switch to keep the toad's battery charged while driving.

Our MDX doesn't need a driveshaft spline or auxiliary transmission pump to tow it, so we don't have to mess with any of those things. Bottom line is, once you get the hang of hooking up and disconnecting, it goes pretty quick.

Kev
 
Larry N. said:
Not all toads require such things. My 2015 Jeep Wrangler requires putting the transfer case in neutral to tow (with transmission in PARK). That's it. The old 2003 Wrangler I used to have added a key in the ignition turned one click away from on, to release the steering wheel lock.
Click to expand...

This is EXACTLY why you see so many Jeeps as toads, Larry nailed it, they are extremely easy and convenient to flat tow.

It usually takes me about 3-minutes to pull mine up to the back of the coach, attach the towbar, hook up the electrical, roll out the Tow-Defender netting, put the transfer case in NEUTRAL, lock the door and hit the road.

Upon arrival at our destination it takes me longer to roll up the cables, Velcro strap them and install the cover over my Sterling tow bar than it does to actually disconnect the Jeep.  Still I would say in the 3-minute range.

Now if we decide to take the Harley and tow the enclosed trailer, it takes me about a half an hour to load the bike, Jeep and secure everything.  Upon arrival at our destination about 20-minutes to unload the trailer.

Flat towing is definetly much easier than towing on a dolly, a flatbed trailer or enclosed trailer but depending on the vehicle may or may not be an option for everyone.

We traveled with some friends years ago who had a tow dolly and I could have the coach setup, Jeep unhooked and be sitting in my lawnchair sipping on my Pepsi while he was still fiddle-farting around with his dolly (that probably didn't sound quite right). ;D

Mike.
 
Thanks, all for your responses. 
Steveblonde thanks for letting me know I can flat tow the T & C.  Did not see any Chryslers in the 2015 DINGY TOWING GUIDE, so assumed that it was not flat towable.  The word "assume" was my downfall. Called Blueox and they confirmed that I can tow it, and let me know what I needed. 
Anybody want to buy a Master Tow Dolly with surge brake with about 3,000 miles on it?
 
If you have a 2008 vehicle you have to find the towing guide for that year, not 2015.  And, you're right, you can't assume anything!  We've towed a Geo Tracker, an Acura MDX, and two Jeep Grand Cherokees and none of them involved using all the stuff you named.  Once set up with the base plate and electrical and/or air connections, it's much easier than you think.  With our current Jeep, it takes a minute or two for me to put the auxiliary brake in place.  Meanwhile Jerry is hooking up the front cables.  When finished he goes through the specific gear movement to Park in our case, locks the doors and off we go.  All in less than 10 minutes.  It's not rocket science but every tow vehicle is different so you have to learn the appropriate routine for what you own.  Four-down towing is significantly easier.

ArdraF

 
You should look at the Remco site. http://www.remcoindustries.com 

Their info suggests the 2008 T&C is only towable with a lube pump kit.  That's a $1495.00 item which does not include installation. 

Just because a company sells a tow bar for a vehicle does not mean it can be towed 4 down without other modification. 
 
Person at Blueox that I spoke to told me that I would need the lube pump kit and suggested I look at Remco for same.
Thanks again.
Love the RV forum! ;D
 
The T&C minivan does indeed require modification with a transmission lube pump to tow 4-down, and that is quite pricey.

With some experience, I think you will find the time to get it on/off the dolly will decrease substantially - I would guess something like 15 minutes to load it and a bit less to unload.

4-down towing should not take more than 5 minutes to hook-up or disconnect if you have top-line (most convenient) equipment and maybe a bit more with the less elegant tow bar and brake systems.
 
This is why I'm glad I prefer manual transmissions in my cars.

The '02 VW Beetle with stick shift just needs to have the trans left in neutral and the key in 'acc'.

I actually had the car several years before I bought an RV.
 
Depending on how you set things up for towing, pulling fuses or disconnecting the battery cable can be as easy as flipping a switch. Setting up the toad brakes can be as easy as connecting a quick connect air hose and a caribiner for the breakaway switch. My electronic transfer case can be switched to neutral so that's just a turn of a knob.

So when setting up a toad think about how easy you want it to be and then do those things necessary to make it happen. Some folks with rigs identical to mine, take a wrench and physically remove the battery cable each time. Mine is set up with a latching relay which only requires a flip of a switch.

Flat towing, for us, is the only thing we'd ever consider. Moving a tow dolly around, finding a place to put it, and hooking it up isn't even a consideration.

Ken
 
srs713 said:
This is why I'm glad I prefer manual transmissions in my cars.

The '02 VW Beetle with stick shift just needs to have the trans left in neutral and the key in 'acc'.

I actually had the car several years before I bought an RV.
Click to expand...

You should be very careful making blanket statements like this to someone just starting out flat-towing and asking advice.  Many, if not most, vehicles with manual transmissions manufactured in the past 10-15 years CANNOT be towed by merely putting the transmission in neutral.

The reason being is many of the newer transmissions are not lubricated by the splash lubrication system of many years ago.  They have an actual pump in them and the pump is driven off either the input shaft or the countershaft, so with neither the input or countershaft turning and the output shaft turning the transmissions are not being lubed.

Another reason to research and give your toad due diligence prior to causing yourself a major repair and costly one as well.  The towing guide put out by FMCA is the best place to start. 

Mike.
 
For many of us the decision to flat tow or trailer (IT's still a towed) is very easy.

I can tow 4,000 pounds
My original tow was 4,000 pounds flat.  I had no overhead for a trailer
My current towed is \2500 pounds  I could dolly it  but not trailer it without going over

But after years of flat towing.... And occasional dolly towing  And even a couple of times full trailer towing.

I'm not going to give up 4-down flat towing.
 
Are there any downsides to lube pumps and drive shaft disconnects?  I'm thinking mechanical failures of related systems, not the inconvenience of connecting/disconnecting. 
 
Contrary to my fellow travelers opinion,  TOW DOLLY, TOW DOLLY, TOW DOLLY.  The response from other will be "I've towed over xxx thousand miles and have not had it happen", my response is, it only takes once.  I will NEVER flat towed, because I do not want to travel with the worry that the tranny in the toad will crumble into skatyategabillion pieces.  With a two dolly that is one worry you will NEVER have.  I have a friend who has  less than 60k miles on his Jeep, flat towed and he needed a new transmission.  No thank you.  Yes a two dolly is a bit more work.  I am 73 and have more itis's and ism's than you would imagine, and yet I will suffer what ever pain is necessary rather than the pain to my wallet in paying for a new transmission.  I have not even looked to see if ether my PT cruiser or my wifes Nissan Juke is flat towable, do not want to know.  As I said just about everyone out here who flat tows will tell you that it has never happened to them.  Most likely true.  However the only ones that can foretell the future are us tow dolly people.  We will NEVER scatter a transmission.

Now you have the other side of the debate
Choose wisely grasshopper.

ALK 
 
Blakduke, Do you have any info besides your friends experience to support your concern.  If we buy a Jeep it will only be so we can flat tow it behind our motorhome.  If this is a legit concern, I'll continue to tow the HHR or look into trailers and tow my old SUV.  Can't even use a dolly on that one.  It has good ground clearance and limited slip differential so, while not 4WD, it's a capable vehicle.  It's also a luxury SUV and a joy to drive.  Difference between pulling on a trailer and new Jeep, probably $35,000.   

As an aside, the transmission in my 2005 Ford F250 went south after 27,000 miles.  It's not towable and I never towed it.  I also never towed anything with it before its failure.  **** happens. 

Personally I think it's impossible to mass produce a defect free product.  Guess the tranny problem in my Ford was just dumb luck.  Unfortunately it was my dumb luck.  Thankfully, it was covered under warranty and served me well for the next 80,000 miles.  That's when I pulled a small trailer.
 
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