Torque issue in my 2015 TREND

92GA said:

After reading this, Rich just maybe your driving habits are your worst enemy. You can't expect a RV to drive and handle like any car. Sounds like now when you're going to pass, you floor it. If so you are not only causing the condition yourself but you are putting  unnecessary strain on the transmission. Maybe Chrysler needs to detune your RV for your safety and ours.

Click to expand...

I have thought of this as a possibility all along. If you mash the go pedal and the transmission bangs a downshift, there absolutely will be feedback to the steering wheel. Its the nature of the beast. I never cared for front wheel drive because of the unpredictability in slippery conditions. If your drive wheels hydroplane there will be a jerk in the wheel, one way or the other when a tire makes contact again. When making a turn in snow or ice, if your drive wheels break traction you are going straight from that point on. If you take your your foot off the gas, as instinct would make you, it gets worse. If you gun it, as you would in a rear drive, to skid the rear end out, and complete the turn, it also gets worse. If you have traction control and gun it to break through a snowbank onto a main road, you can get stuck in the snowbank halfway out.
  Yet there is a big fan club for the FWD GMC motorhome from the 70's. They even drag race them. One holds or held the Bonneville Salt Flats land speed record for the worlds fastest motorhome. Reverse Donuts are kinda fun too!

Bill
Still a bit crazy after all these years.

But even when the RV is driven slowly by the techs at the RV dealer, the thing STILL pulled to the left!  It is NOT my driving habits, it is a bad chassis/box problem.  The tech took the RV on a 35mph road and attempted to pass a 25mph vehicle and the RV made a lane change right then and there!

The tech took the RV on a 45mph road and attempted to pass a 35mph vehicle and the RV made a lane change right then and there once again!

Same when the tech too the RV on a 55mph road and attempted to pass a 45mph vehicle and the RV made a lane change right then and there another time!

Tell me it's my driving habits if you want, but the several times the tech tried several speeds, each and every time it puled to the left.  The problem is a torque-shift problem plain and simple with Chrysler not knowing how to fix it.

I hope to NEVER read about a TREND smashing into an oncoming vehicle no matter what the driving habits are of the driver.

Thanks Phil and Bill

Rich

Has anybody tried strapping the chassis down, as you would for a dynamometer run, then putting it in gear and horsing it like you were trying to pull a stump. Watch both front wheels while doing this to see if one or the other shifts under that kind of load.That is how I found where the frame was broken on my 2000 4Runner. I knew something bad was wrong because it would change direction with gas and when letting off gas. Earlier in this topic someone was talking about a misaligned cradle, Maybe a couple bolts are loose and the cradle is shifting enough to cause the issue but slips back into alignment after easing off the throttle. Paint or undercoating in the area of shifting may or may not show evidence of abrasion.

Rich, I do tend to believe you, I just am not fond of FWD. Too much work for the one axle, steering, most of the braking and now the drive wheels on top of it. Rear drive is more fun anyway.

Bill

Hi Bill - No one at the Chrysler dealership would try anything without having Chrysler's design/research or the engineering telling them what to do.  They were not allowed to do anything themselves because who would pay for it?  It's all about the money for Chrysler not fixing a customer's problem.

By the way, I have no idea what I just read...lol.  re: strapping the chassis down, as you would for a dynamometer run, then putting it in gear and horsing it, OR a misaligned cradle OR a couple bolts are loose and the cradle is shifting enough to cause the issue but slips back into alignment after easing off the throttle - I an mechanically dumb and openly admit it.  When I have car trouble, I take it to my mechanic and an hour later pick it up and pay the bill - he knows not to try and explain what he did because my eyes glass over when he does.

All of the suggestions I have gotten here, I have copied/pasted them and printed them out.  I have given them to the Chrysler dealership for them to forward them to the r/d and engineering departments for them to take a look at them to attempt to find a fix.

I finally got a work order from the Chrysler dealership... here is what it says:

Engine: Engine concern

Customer reports when driving at 55 mph and cruise control is on vehicle pulls hard to left on hard acceleration. Advise

This vehicle appears to be weighted heavier to the rear.  It is within 100 lbs of max cap and it is empty.  No repairs performed

Rack & pinion shows signs of normal wheeping

Work performed by House Tech    (99)

Maybe you can understand this part of the work order but what stands out to me is that part that says, "No repairs performed" and that concerns me A LOT!!!  The r/d and engineering departments tried for 2 weeks and couldn't come up with a fix so now they blame Winnebago.  Passing the buck is alive at Chrysler.

RICH

Have a neighborhood buddy that messes around with cars help you chain your rig to a tree. If you have a tow hitch that will work Slowly take up slack in the chain until it is taut. Then squeeze the throttle gently more and more, while two people are standing outside watching the drive wheels to see if they shift position, even a little bit. Video it if possible. Give copy of video to your lawyer.

I'm betting some of you are reading this in horror But if done with a good chain and the chain is taut before tugging hard no damage will occur, and it shouldn't take more than 1/2 the pedal to shift anything that is loose. After all you are already rolling when the torque steer happens and giving it gas to pass isn't quite the stress test of trying to pull a tree down the street. which by the way I've done with everything from frontend loaders to Volkswagen Bus's. Choose a big tree so it doesn't fall on your rig. If I lived nearby we'd have it done in an hour or less.

Bill

Thanks Bill - you've given me a lot to think about and do!  I have to wait till my surgery heals but n the meantime I will work on lining it up.

Rich

ok, after all the pain of the knee for the last month, I have a cool update..... 

Winnebago and ProMaster are finally teaming up together (for a second time) to see what is wrong how to fix my torque steer issue.  My problem has been taken to the upper levels of Winnebago and ProMaster.  It has taken 16 months to get to this point (too bad they didn't listen 16 months ago).  They asked me to empty ALL the interior of the TREND so after 17 little moving boxes of stuff weighing about 340 pounds all I need to do now is dump the waste.  We used the RV this past weekend to take pictures of a Civil War reenactment in Vista California. 

FINALLY, there might be a light at the end of the tunnel.  I have to take the RV about 45 mils away to a Chrysler dealership where the powers that be will dive into the problem.  All I can do is hope they fix it!  I was told by the Winnebago state rep that I am the first to have a torque steer issue that he ever heard of (wow, that doesn't make me feel better...lol). 

It took my wife having to jump into the mix to get something done.  She told the Winnebago rep that:

1. If we go to court, of course you'll lose and the lemon law lawyer will get a pile of money and you'll have to give us a new RV anyway or

2.  You can do something in a timely manner to fix the RV or you can give us a new one if you can't fix it.

Because I finally got 3 repair orders where the places I took it to state they can't fix the RV, she had leverage to say what she said.  Gotta love her!!! 

Rich

Hooray for progress albeit slow and steady. Thanks for the updates to this story Rich, hope your new knee is good to you.

Having reread this whole thread, chaining the beast to a tree may be the best idea yet!

I have printed all of the suggestions and made bold the tree idea.  I will give the papers to the people that get my RV and attempt to fix it.

Thank you all for your support.

Rich

Oh I wouldn't mention the tree idea to all those corporate people. They'd probably accuse you of trying it and claim it's an unintended use and try to deny coverage. I would use it as a last ditch effort, through an attorney, for a lawsuit. Or to see what's happening if you had to fix it on your own dime.

Bill

ok, I'll delete it from the list and reprint.

Thanks

Rich

I was just agreeing with the part about chaining it to a tree, nothing more! It would not be dangerous once chained to a tree.

The whole thing, I think, is a characteristic of an overloaded front wheel drive vehicle, and I doubt there will be any solution short of replacing it, or that chain.

I hope I am wrong.

I don't see a solution to this issue, and can't offer one.  My 2014 Trend does not pull when accelerating.  I can't speak for all Trend owners, but I don't think this is an inherent problem with Promaster chassis.

I didn't read 100% of the post but to clear up some issues;

Ram Promaster is a Fiat design, with US required enhancements.  I was told 5000 per yr of these are sold world wide as a work van.
It is front wheel drive, and heavy on the back axle as designed by WGO.

I have 18000+ miles on mine with no chassis issues except brake squeal which Dodge has a fix for.  There are issues with finding dealers trained and equipped to repair the van chassis.  Winnebago is a joke, don't expect any help from them.  Ask and if you get it, consider yourself a good person and God has given you a gift.  Ram is not much better, they have or had a person named Lisa providing Dodge product support who was a waste of breath to speak to.  Sorry to sound negative, just giving real life experience reports.  Ray is Lisa's boss but speaking to him is rare.

We took our Trend on a Lewis and Clark journey and traveled 8300 miles in two and a half months.  The Promaster was great.  Climbed the Rockies with no problem.  The only issues were Winnebago related and never corrected.

Join a Yahoo groups site for the Trend, there are some people there that might be able to help, and some real jerks so be advised.  With over 100 Trend owners, You can get a feel for how many may have had this problem.  I can't recall specifics but I know some had front end problems.  Sorry don't have the Yahoo group address, easy to find on your own.  Which model did you buy? L or B?

We bought a B and tore out the sofa, and dinette to make a twin bed model.  Then in 17 they came out with a D.

There are folks that load up that rear end with cargo carriers and carry BBQ pits and a ton of other junk back there, clearly overloading the rear axle making trips to Alaska that way.  Never heard them report a pulling problem even with that kind of load back there.

We tow a Smart car with no issues.  Don't even know it is there while driving.  Be happy to answer any questions.

Mike

Oh, and on the first to have this problem, they always say that.  I was told that by WGO even with many others on the Trend site making complaints on the loft bed.  I posted my loft bed issue on RV Forum, you can search and read when you need to find something to put you to sleep.

Mike

Tomorrow I take the RV to yet another Chrysler dealership to see if they can fix it.  This time the Winnebago southern California rep is sending me there.  They want to see what the weight is of each corner of the RV.  To what end, I have no clue but I will take it there anyway.  More stuff for me to collect to give to the Lemon Law people I guess.

Thanks to all for your support in this maddening situation I am in!

Rich

I find that request strange.  You stated that they asked you to empty the unit, and they weighed it right?  Do they think they built this one unit different than all the others?  Maybe they are suspicious of their union work force might be doing a little sabotage.  I did a factory tour in October when there having the loft bed "fixed".  The workers there were not a happy looking bunch.

I've got 40+ years aircraft maintenance experience, and have done several "factory tours".  As a hanger floor worker for 21 years you can tell when the crew is happy, and when they are not.  It's a feeling...

These guys have a way of pranking the company, maybe someone is suspicious they installed a little weight some place they shouldn't have.  Just throwing that out there.  They pulled a quick one on me, built a wall on top of the siphon line for the water system anti freeze.

Did you check out the Yahoo groups site?  Seems like it was a drive shaft issue with Ram.  Ask for a weight sheet on the 23L, it should be provided.  I have one for the B.  Close to what it actually weighted on the scales.

Mike
2014 Trend 23B

Mike

They wanted weights on each corner.  The guy tried 5 places but to no avail.  He took measurements of different things and will let the engineers know at ProMaster.  I have no idea what measurements he took and he didn't tell me upon my asking. 


The lemon law people are on the sidelines watching the game closely.

Rich

dont know what the fix was but id say get an allignment first

I had it totally aligned a bit ago and it drives straight as an arrow for miles but when you accelerate high, it turns to the left all by itself!

Rich