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Author Topic: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND  (Read 30315 times)

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2016, 10:16:44 PM »
WHOPEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to celebrate today because FINALLY a Chrysler dealership took my RV on a test drive (done by an employee and the service manager himself) and found out the RV really did pull to the left under acceleration so now I have documentation of the problem after 15 months of dealing with the company and all the bad customer service people they have at ProMaster chassis.

I had to drive 77 mils one way TWICE to get them to test it and I had to call the dealership I bought it from AND Winnebago's area representative but it got done.  I had to pay $10 for the RV to get it weighed for front, rear and total weight but it was the best $10 I've ever spent.  Now I have to wait and let ProMaster R/D try to fix the problem and let the service manager of the Chrysler dealership know so he can call me.

Thank you all for your support.

Rich
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 10:18:20 PM by TREND owner »

William52

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2016, 10:29:11 PM »
That's great news I'm sure that some way the cradle or subframe or whatever they call it can be tweaked to where its safe to drive.
2000 Pace Arrow M35N F53 V10 Ford  100,000 + miles purrs like a kitten. 2010 Honda CRV, Roadmaster Falcon, RVI3 Brake

dramsey1

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #62 on: January 21, 2016, 07:15:59 AM »
I would definitely look for solutions to a torque steer problem. In the past, I've had front wheel drive vehicles with high horsepower engines do the same thing. I had to watch out for it every time I accelerated hard. And yes it would throw me out of my lane at times. Good luck.

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #63 on: January 21, 2016, 09:25:21 AM »
Update:  The Chrysler dealer called me and told me it was not an alignment issue (no dah!!! - I've told Chrysler that for 15 months) and they were going to send it to a suspension specialist.  Let's see what they do.

@ William52 - don't laugh but is a cradle or subframe in the suspension area?  I know nothing about this area as I usually take my vehicles to my mechanic to fix.

@ dramsey - did you ever get it fixed?  If so, what did they do to fix the problem?

catblaster

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2016, 09:38:46 AM »
Maybe your rear axle is shifting under heavy acceleration. Try letting off the gas while in a lower gear at high RPM and see if it tries to go right. If it does it is most likely something in the rear suspension. Suggest the rear suspension be checked either way. It could also maybe that you are climbing out of truck ruts and darting left because of over compensation due to the ruts trying to hold you. Overinflated tires will make this condition worse. Tires should be inflated for the weight they are carrying, not inflated to the max pressure on the sidewall, I don't care what anybody tells you, never inflate to the max PSI on the sidewall unless you are carrying the max weight of the tire also on the sidewall. Over inflation is the main cause of a squirrely ride.

Bill

I'm with Bill on this one, I have seen it happen, or rather felt it happen on leaf spring axles when the pin sheared and loosened up the U-bolts We also had two of out Ford fleet vans that had the rear axle misaligned so that it looked and felt like it was going down the road on an angle.  Let us know what they find.
Will and Jane
95 Winnebago Luxor

driftless shifter

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2016, 11:02:46 AM »
Catblaster,
 It turns out the rig is front wheel drive, however it could be a shifty subframe. A shifty subframe would do essentially the same thing though. It would be a more pronounced feeling for the driver having to wrestle with the steering wheel. Could even be some kind of malfunction in the differential section of the transaxle.

Bill
Bill & Nan
(o\_!_/o)
93 bounder 34, chevy chassis
couple of aircooled vw's, 1 fast(sold), 1 reliable(sold).  Dubless : (
USN '76-'80, 1 boat, USS Blandy, DD 943.
I'm an analog guy in a digital age.

dramsey1

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #66 on: January 21, 2016, 11:09:44 AM »
Trend Owner.. No I did not get it fixed as due to the nature of my job I was driving company cars at the time. Several coworkers who also drove these cars warned the rest of us to watch out for it. Maybe talk to other Trend owners or ask a dealership to drive another one to see if they do the same thing. I think all the cars I experienced this with were under 300 horsepower. I sure hope you get a new RV which doesn't do this.

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2016, 11:13:56 AM »
Thanks catblaster - I tried to copy/past all of your guys suggestions on how to check/fix the problem and all the dealers did was to tell me that THEY needed to find a fix.  Stupid people - I am one that relies on others experiences when I need help - too bad Chrysler service people don't do the same when they don't know how to fix the problem - shame on them! 

I have sent 2 different email to Chrysler itself (avoiding ProMaster since they clearly don't care) and have gotten the milk toast reply... "we are sorry you are having troubles" and then DO NOTHING about it!

I will keep you all informed on what this newest dealer is doing - right now I was told the person in suspension is on a 3 day vacation - figures.  My total left knee replacement is on the 29th of Jan - hope they fix it before then.  I'll be out of action for a long time and they will have to store it until I can get a way to get 77 miles one way to pick it up! 

Of course if they keep it for 30 days or more, the attorney in San Diego will take my case for Lemon law.  The receptionist calls me every 2 weeks to see if I have a work order but tells me I need 3 work orders.  Let's see... it has taken me 15 months to get one work order and at that rate it will be years before the law firm will certainly get involved...lol

@ driftless - I'll add your post to my list - thanks!@ dramsey1 = out here in so cal, I can't get the dealer to give me a list of Trends they have sold so I can contact them.  But my salesman said he would ask them if they noticed the same problem I am having.  I trust him because he has shown honesty all along.

Thanks

Rich

driftless shifter

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2016, 11:58:47 AM »
Good luck with it Rich, I think you're just going to have to be a real raving expletive deleted in order to keep their feet on the fire. I wouldn't let it sit in their lot for any length of time when they release it back to you. If you simply can't get it due to knee surgery send a trusted friend for it. As soon as you are able to leave the house have a trusted friend take you for a test drive and have him do hard acceleration testing. Time is not on your side here. This needs to be rammed down their throat. They have already burned time on you with their delay tactics. I suspect every dealer representative you have spoken too, up to now, has been knowingly blowing you off, specifically to burn up your time limit. Your salesman is not your friend he's the good cop in the good cop/bad cop scenario.

Bill
Bill & Nan
(o\_!_/o)
93 bounder 34, chevy chassis
couple of aircooled vw's, 1 fast(sold), 1 reliable(sold).  Dubless : (
USN '76-'80, 1 boat, USS Blandy, DD 943.
I'm an analog guy in a digital age.

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2016, 04:28:31 PM »
Thanks Bill - The sales person has told me several times stuff that, if the  manager or owner knew he did, he'd get fired.  I have kept his knowledge quite to others.  He has given me phone numbers of Lemon Law lawyers, direct phone numbers to Chrysler itself and things like that.  So we trust each other.

It's ProMaster I don't trust because of the many lies I've been told.

I had gathered my support group of friends that will assist me in doing what I need to do.  I also have to give the current dealership time to get it fixed.  The employees vacations were planned far before I became their customer so I can't hold that against them at this point.  My wife works but she will take a day off to bring the RV back because she knows first hand what the problem is and drives racier that I do (don't let her see this post...lol).

I have found that I get further when I stay calm when I meet these guys in person.  I can get fast and furious when I lost control - ask some of my former students that pushed too hard and regretted it later.

Rich

William52

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2016, 05:07:47 PM »
Update:  The Chrysler dealer called me and told me it was not an alignment issue (no dah!!! - I've told Chrysler that for 15 months) and they were going to send it to a suspension specialist.  Let's see what they do.

@ William52 - don't laugh but is a cradle or subframe in the suspension area?  I know nothing about this area as I usually take my vehicles to my mechanic to fix.
The engine/transaxle sit in the cradle/subframe so if its out of center/whack with the frame= your problem. Does not necessarily  mean that its loose but not in alignment with the centerline of the truck. Could be in the transaxle too? Applying more power to the left. READ the my post on the first page. Good luck Will
@ dramsey - did you ever get it fixed?  If so, what did they do to fix the problem?
2000 Pace Arrow M35N F53 V10 Ford  100,000 + miles purrs like a kitten. 2010 Honda CRV, Roadmaster Falcon, RVI3 Brake

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2016, 05:39:59 PM »
Because of your help Bill I called the current Chrysler dealer's acting Service Manager and asked him about the "fix." 

He said that they have reproduced the problem that I told them about.  They have ruled out alignment issues. 

He said their service bay inside is barely big enough that is only gets the RV up to 4 or 5 feet above the ground.  He said there was another “bay” outside but didn’t say if they tried the RV on it. 

He said that they are looking at a suspension area of concern and a weight issue in the back of the RV.  He said that the tanks at the back were empty and the difference of the weight verses the door sticker weight was about 150 pounds that when I fill the RV with water, that might cause the problem but he has not tested his concern.

He said he was in contact and working closely with Chrysler’s research and development division trying to find a solution to the torque-steer problem.

He said he’d call me next week.

So, that is what the current information I have for now. 

@ Will - thank you!  I am SO caught up in this stuff that I have NO idea of what people are telling me about.  I appreciate your help and actually told the acting service manager about your suggestions!  He said he and his "crew" have considered all of the things that I have told him about and these things are what all of you have suggested.  I did leave the vacationing service manager a printed list and I guess he actually gave my list to the acting manager.  That makes me feel that they are trying to solve the problem.  Oh, I just remembered - the acting service manager told me that this is the first time they have seen this particular problem at r/d or at his shop.

Rich

William52

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2016, 05:59:21 PM »
https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/2xbN3laRw47jEn_exfHWLQ--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9NDAwO3E9OTU7dz02MDA-/http://www.car-illustration.com/illustrations/fwd-cradle-frame-chassis.jpg  If you look at this assm and imagine that it not sitting in the unibody on center maybe this will help you understand it usually is mounted on four points and can be perfectly centered but still pulls. So on a car we would shift it right to correct a pull to left. Or try to rotate clockwise.= tweak  Again good luck.Will
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 06:02:53 PM by William52 »
2000 Pace Arrow M35N F53 V10 Ford  100,000 + miles purrs like a kitten. 2010 Honda CRV, Roadmaster Falcon, RVI3 Brake

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2016, 07:32:31 PM »
A picture is worth a lot Will!!!  I think I have it now (maybe...lol).  There sure are plenty of things going on here to take into consideration.  You guys are teaching me and I appreciate your patience while taking me through this.

I am the kind of person that takes the vehicle to a trusted mechanic.  My thought is that the mechanic trusts my skills as a teacher and allows his child to be led through the fields of math and trusts me that his child will be prepared for the next years math and I take my vehicle to him and I trust he will repair it so I can get from point A to point B without breaking down.

The mechanic doesn't need to know anything about math but when the State math test scores are mailed home and he sees that his child has gained a year or more while being in my class and is happy.  I don't need to know about mechanical workings of my vehicle but I can rely on the mechanics knowledge of repair so my vehicle won't falter and I am happy. 

You can imagine how happy I was that you guys posted possible solutions to my problem.  I collected them and gave a copy to the service department at the Chrysler dealership and they have checked all of them out and it still pulls to the left on high acceleration.  Now at all speeds, it pulls to the left when accelerated.  I guess I was so used to it pulling, I only noticed it when I had the cruise control on set at 55mph and tried to pass a slower vehicle either on flat roads or hills, especially on hills.

I just knew when I joined this group I was in the right place!

Rich

William52

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2016, 08:24:36 PM »
I like to be referred as an fourth generation Blacksmith myself. Had I the education of a teacher,Engineer I would hope. Give them two choices FIX it or buy back. BTW your problem uncommon in the truck world.
2000 Pace Arrow M35N F53 V10 Ford  100,000 + miles purrs like a kitten. 2010 Honda CRV, Roadmaster Falcon, RVI3 Brake

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2016, 10:00:15 PM »
You know Will, the temp service manager said the same thing to me on the phone today that it was the first time he'd run into this problem. 

Here i was starting to think I was out of my mind and the RV was fine and I was the one having the problem.  With SO many of the ProMaster and Chrysler people saying that what I felt when accelerating was just an alignment issue I was beginning to think I had the problem.  Of course if I were more educated in mechanics of the chassis, I would of told them to go to he** but I don't have the vast knowledge like you guys have here.  This is why I joined the group and I am SO glad I have.

I have communicated with so many nice people that have honesty, integrity and knowledge and this makes me proud to be a member too.

I hope going off topic for 2 pictures is ok.

Here is a pix of the Trend at Alabama Hills near Lone Pine, Ca. when I spent the night doing night photography.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 10:07:01 PM by TREND owner »

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2016, 10:02:06 PM »
I forgot the pix...lol  I can't seem to load a larger pix.  This one is 6x4 at 72 dpi - any larger and it will not load.  The second pix is the result of 2 hours in the dead of night shooting one 20 sec pix, waiting 10 sec and shooting again, then stacking all the shots on top of each other.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 10:05:52 PM by TREND owner »

Tom/Barb

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #77 on: January 21, 2016, 10:24:14 PM »
I noticed when I was going down the freeway at 65mph with the cruise control on and wanted to pass a big truck ahead of me that the RV drastically pulled to the left before I turned the steering wheel to change lanes.  It changed lanes for me!  I have had the alignment checked and adjusted since the ProMaster division of Chrysler sent it to Winnebago out of alignment without checking it.  It was also supposed to be checked at the Chrysler Dealer of Forrest City and wasn't nor was it checked at Winnebago.  It was driven from Indiana to Southern California where I bought the RV.  I have had FOUR different customer service care people from ProMaster not be able to get the problem fixed.  The chassis is a Sprinter built by Mercedes but when I went to Mercedes, they didn't have my vin number on file!  The conclusion is that Chrysler made it (but I find that difficult to believe). 

This issue may affect all of us who own a Winnebago TREND with a Sprinter chassis and may cause us to have a head-on collision with oncoming traffic.  I narrowly avoided a head-on collision with a red duly - it was heart stopping to say the least.

My question is am I the only one having the torque to the left with my TREND?

I would appreciate anyone to help me get the torque problem solved (it is NOT an alignment issue!)

Thanks

Rich
Dished out or rutted roads will do this. Does your coach do it on all roads?
What you read from me, is only an opinion

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #78 on: January 21, 2016, 11:27:16 PM »
The RV does it on all roads, hills, rain or shine.  It is very dangerous in my opinion and that's why I have spent so much time trying to get Chrysler to DO something - and they finally are (I hope)!

Tom/Barb

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #79 on: January 22, 2016, 12:22:50 AM »
The RV does it on all roads, hills, rain or shine.  It is very dangerous in my opinion and that's why I have spent so much time trying to get Chrysler to DO something - and they finally are (I hope)!
WoW! this is spooky/dangerous, I spend most of the day reading the three pages of this thread, Learned a lot. I am grateful it's you and not me, because I don't think I'd have been as successful as you have been. I'd have shot some body by this time :)

This confirms my belief you never buy the "A" model of any thing.
 But I do hope you got this on the run and will get solved shortly.
What you read from me, is only an opinion

Tom/Barb

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #80 on: January 22, 2016, 12:26:57 AM »
Just wondering, , , have you thought of informing the NTSB as a hazard of design ? we do this in aviation, when we find a design problem. This would place uncle sugar on manufacturer's back.
What you read from me, is only an opinion

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #81 on: January 22, 2016, 09:22:43 AM »
Never considered it - thanks.  I called them and they sent me to DOT (Department Of Transportation).  I called DOT and they didn't answer (figures with my luck) and left a detailed voice mail.  Now let's see what happens.

Thanks


Rich
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 09:33:03 AM by TREND owner »

Bill N

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #82 on: January 22, 2016, 07:24:08 PM »
Never considered it - thanks.  I called them and they sent me to DOT (Department Of Transportation).  I called DOT and they didn't answer (figures with my luck) and left a detailed voice mail.  Now let's see what happens.

Thanks


Rich

All Fed offices in Washington shut down at noon today for the snow storm.  They should be used to that with all the snow jobs they put out daily.  Anyway, try back Monday.
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #83 on: January 22, 2016, 10:47:21 PM »
Being in Southern California, I never considered a snow storm.  Thanks Bill N for the heads-up!  I am wondering why, when the were at work, didn't return my voice mail call before they left for home?

Ok, just got off the phone with the service advisor where my RV is at - He said the back end had stoppers that are low on the RV with no load whatsoever and they act like they are overloaded.  But, they don’t have a fix yet.  He said that the Chrysler person at research and development/engineering is still working on it.  He said he’d call me Monday and give another update from the Chrysler guy.

Maybe someone can explain what this means please about what it is that is low?

Thanks

Rich

driftless shifter

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2016, 02:34:02 AM »
Not sure, but maybe the rear end rides low, for no apparent reason, which would throw front end geometry off.

Bill
Bill & Nan
(o\_!_/o)
93 bounder 34, chevy chassis
couple of aircooled vw's, 1 fast(sold), 1 reliable(sold).  Dubless : (
USN '76-'80, 1 boat, USS Blandy, DD 943.
I'm an analog guy in a digital age.

V2Neal

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2016, 09:51:57 AM »
Ok, just got off the phone with the service advisor where my RV is at - He said the back end had stoppers that are low on the RV with no load whatsoever and they act like they are overloaded.  But, they don’t have a fix yet.  He said that the Chrysler person at research and development/engineering is still working on it.  He said he’d call me Monday and give another update from the Chrysler guy.

Maybe someone can explain what this means please about what it is that is low?
Thanks
Rich
Assuming the service advisor is talking about the bump stops ...
"A bump stop is a compressible suspension component designed to prevent metal on metal contact (and subsequent damage or unsafe driving characteristics) as the suspension undergoes extreme compression, such as after hitting a bump or going into a dip / pothole."

If the rear is compressed enough that it is riding on the bumpstop, that is strange to me. It would possibly indicate that the frame is overloaded or the springs are undersized.
If the rear is compressed or riding low, this would change the front castor angle and could cause the steering to be squirrely. I would expect the steering to be loose in both directions rather than consistantly one direction or the other, but there are other factors at work with your torque steer issue. Length of the axle shafts for example.
Glad you are finally getting on the road to a resolution.
1975 GMC 26'

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #86 on: January 23, 2016, 12:08:43 PM »
Thanks Bill and Neal - especially for the instructions on how the "bump stop" works. 

I hope this will fix the problem!

Rich

William52

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2016, 03:46:43 PM »
Assuming the service advisor is talking about the bump stops ...
"A bump stop is a compressible suspension component designed to prevent metal on metal contact (and subsequent damage or unsafe driving characteristics) as the suspension undergoes extreme compression, such as after hitting a bump or going into a dip / pothole."

If the rear is compressed enough that it is riding on the bumpstop, that is strange to me. It would possibly indicate that the frame is overloaded or the springs are undersized.
If the rear is compressed or riding low, this would change the front castor angle and could cause the steering to be squirrely. I would expect the steering to be loose in both directions rather than consistantly one direction or the other, but there are other factors at work with your torque steer issue. Length of the axle shafts for example.
Glad you are finally getting on the road to a resolution.
       Exactly, bumps stop can also be on the top of the shocks in case they bottom out and  on front and rear. I doubt you would never make contact with the frame mounted bump stops. This guy has not driven it? And looking at the wrong end of the coach. Geez.
2000 Pace Arrow M35N F53 V10 Ford  100,000 + miles purrs like a kitten. 2010 Honda CRV, Roadmaster Falcon, RVI3 Brake

William52

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2016, 03:57:28 PM »
Sorry your service advisor has no clue. Must have about two weeks experience? Bumps stop?
2000 Pace Arrow M35N F53 V10 Ford  100,000 + miles purrs like a kitten. 2010 Honda CRV, Roadmaster Falcon, RVI3 Brake

TREND owner

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Re: Torque issue in my 2015 TREND
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2016, 05:03:19 PM »
The service advisor AND the service manager - neither one has a clue in spite of their "vast experience" they say they have.  I am told they have turned the problem over to the r/d and engineering at the Chrysler level (I assume it is ProMaster) and it has been about two weeks now and THEY don't have a clue either!!!

If;

A) I am the only one having this problem, it may come to having me get a new RV

or

B) there might have to be a major recall and think of the problem that will cause!

I hope a ProMaster person has the balls enough to read all my posts and respond as the customer service liars suck!