Duplicate Solar Power Systems

I just spent most of the afternoon at Discount Solar in Quartzsite going over the speciifications and designing and picking up all the components for two seperate Solar Systems.

One is for the Stacker and the other is for the Country Coach DP.

The Stacker system is for providing power to do three things.  First it provides power thru an invertor to make sure that the freezer in the Stacker always has power.  The second use it to allow me to charge the batteries in the golf cart.  The third use is for general A/C power for power tools in the workshop.

I am going to mount the panels on the roof of the Stacker flat without tilting mounts because the roof is over 13 feet 6 inches high already and I do not want to climb on that rood anyway.

The combiner will mount high up on the inside wall feeding 6 guage cable down to the Charge Controller that will mount just above the workbench on the wall also.

The output from the controller will go thru short 6 guage cable to a large fuze then to the Optima blue top batteries located under the workbench.

The Invertor will mount in the same location above and at the end of the workbench.  It is fed from the batteries with short 6 guage cable going first thru a 200 Amp Fuze.  The Invertor will feed A/C to the freezer at all times.  The invertor will be powered by A/C if the Stacker is plugged in or by the DC batteries if no shorepower is available.  The Invertor will also charge the batteries if on shorepower.  This will insure that the freezer will stay cold even when driving down the road or when boondocking.


The system for the DP is simpler.  It is virtually the same system as the Stacker except I already have the Xantrex 3000 watt invertor that is fed by 6 Trojan T-105 batteries thru a large fuze.

All I am doing is adding the Solar charging half of the system.  I will use tilt mounts on the panels on the DP roof because it is lower and easier to get to on the roof.  The cable will feed down the refridgerator vent using a combiner at the top to connect the smaller wires of the panels to the same type 6 guage cable as I am using in the Stacker.  These two 6 gauge cables run down to the battery compartment that is lower and next to the Refer.  I am mounting the Charge Controller in the compartment next to and seperated from the battery bank and then feeding the batteries thru another fuze.  Many people mount the Charge controller inside the Coach where it is available and visable.  In my case I already have the remote Xantrex panel mounted on the wall inside and it shows the battery state of charge already.

My next step is to find an able bodied person or two to hire for the install.  I want to supervise and manage the install to both make sure it is done exactly as I want and to be able to modify it at any step in the process.  When you do it this way you can catch anything that you want to be changed and do it in the best possible way.  I know that the installers are good at Discount Solar, but I would drive then crazy if they would even let me near during the install.  So I did not even ask.

Film at eleven.

Sounds like a good upgrade.
I just upgraded my solar system on the Motorhome from the original 1 Solec 85 watt Panel to 4  100watt panels from AM Solar. My next upgrade is to replace the solar controller.
Hopefully my pic will load. Its been a while since I posted a pic.

Not that it is any of my business, but what is that on the left bottom of the picture? A dish antenna or ?

Oldracer
That is the garage door opener of the building that I store it in.

Ah Ha!!! My curiosity is satisfied. Thanks.

dverstra said:

Sounds like a good upgrade.
I just upgraded my solar system on the Motorhome from the original 1 Solec 85 watt Panel to 4  100watt panels from AM Solar. My next upgrade is to replace the solar controller.
Hopefully my pic will load. Its been a while since I posted a pic.

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You will need to run a larger wires from what I've heard on the forum.

The short wires from the panels to the combiner at roof level are #10 UV protected wire.  From the combiner down to the Charge controller I am using #6 Stranded Battery Cable which is the largest that will fit into the lug openings on the combiner, the controller, and the openings on the ends of the large fuze holder.  The #6 battery cable is about as big around as my finger. 

From all the reading I did from Handy Bob and others it seems to be what they recommend.  I am starting with about 600 watts divided between the two systems.  I will find out if that does what I need it to do.  The Stacker system hopefully will be fully functional with that amount.  I may well double the amount later for the DP.

For a guy that boondocks maybe one week a year this seems to be a good start.

The real reason that I am doing this is because I like the idea of having one more way to be self sufficient if there was ever a reason to need it.  I am not a prepper or a survivalist, but I like the assurance of having options.

The initial cost of the components and small parts is about $3,000.  I am not doing this for the savings or payback recovery but rather for peace of mind and functionality.

Yes it would be nice to be self sufficient and not need that 50amp plug or gen/set. But I would want some solar and will have as much I can afford.

Voltage drop is important on all cables, but the critical ones are between the charge controller and battery.  Most solar panels have enough voltage overhead that losing a couple tenths of a volt between them and the charge controller is no big deal.

But unless the charge controller has remote voltage sensing via separate wires to the battery terminals, it's making it's charge decisions based on the voltage at it's output, not what is actually appearing at the battery terminals.

Lose a couple tenths of a volt along the battery cables and your charge controller will shut off the battery charge prematurely.  That's the problem Handy Bob is talking about.

Short #10 jumpers to individual panels and #6 down to the charge controller sounds fine to me.

It wouldn't hurt to use anti-oxydant grease on all connections, especially those outside.  It's usually recommended for controlling oxydation on aluminum wire connections but it's also helpful on copper especially when it's crimped or screwed to another type of metal.

William52 said:

You will need to run a larger wires from what I've heard on the forum.

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In my instance, AM Solar reviewed the size of my wires, the lengths from the combiner to the Charge controller and to the batteries and approved the wire sizing. Thanks for the input though.

HueyPilotVN said:

The real reason that I am doing this is because I like the idea of having one more way to be self sufficient if there was ever a reason to need it.  I am not a prepper or a survivalist, but I like the assurance of having options.

The initial cost of the components and small parts is about $3,000.  I am not doing this for the savings or payback recovery but rather for peace of mind and functionality.

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Exactly the reasons for doing mine. I like not being entirely dependent on our electric grid. Not a Prepper...just an individualist.

Lou,

Thanks for reminding me about the antioxident grease.  I also forgot to mention that I do have even bigger battery cables for the 3 feet from the controller to the batteries and for the 4 feet of cable that goes to the Invertor with a 200 amp fuse in the positive cable.

I also want to pick you brain when you get here to Q about what you said in reference to the question about dual use of the 36 volt golf cart battery bank

dverstra,

I agree that AM Solar knows what they are doing.  I have had a few talks with them over the phone in the last few years.  I considered at one point putting several kilowatts of solar on the roof of some of our Mobile Surgerical Facilities and Mobile Hospitals.  In the end we realized that we could not do much more that create some backup capabilities with the limits on solar.
I would have ordered my solar components from AM Solar except for the shipping hassle and the fact that they are closed till after the New Year and I am a spur of the moment kind of purchaser.

HueyPilotVN said:

My next step is to find an able bodied person or two to hire for the install.  I want to supervise and manage the install to both make sure it is done exactly as I want and to be able to modify it at any step in the process.  When you do it this way you can catch anything that you want to be changed and do it in the best possible way.  I know that the installers are good at Discount Solar, but I would drive then crazy if they would even let me near during the install.

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My problem with that is to find someone as anal as I am. I usually have to do it myself. ;D ;D All of the electrical lines have to be aligned. My wife thinks I'm crazy but I know better. 8) I guess that is why I was a Tool and Die Maker.

dverstra said:

My problem with that is to find someone as anal as I am. I usually have to do it myself. ;D ;D All of the electrical lines have to be aligned. My wife thinks I'm crazy but I know better. 8) I guess that is why I was a Tool and Die Maker.

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                  Sounds familiar I would want them tied down every foot too. LOL

I agree, but I mostly want someone to climb up and work on the roof part of the install and fish the cable down the vent.

I fully intend for the finished appearance to look very professional, especially in the Stacker where it will be very visable.

I am still a little concerned about mounting the panels on the roof of the Stacker at over 13' 6" already.  I think I will look for one of those warning alarms that mount up front on top of the DP to give me a warning if I am approaching a low clearence situation.  Another fellow here at the RV park tells me that some commercial truck shops have them for sale.  Anyone know who might have these?

I am in no hurry to complete the install.  It is cold here in Q in the mornings, at least cold for me.

I finally got the system for the Stacker installed.

I mounted two 140 watt panels on the roof.  They are wired in paralell and I used the #10 UV protected wire and it run thru the roof with a cover and lots of sealer.

Inside the combiner is located just under the ceiling and converts the wireing to #6 battery cable that runs down the inside wall to the workbench.

I fuzed both the input and the output of the charge controller with 30 amp fuzes.

The charge controller is a 30 amp Go Power.  It is mounted in a box that is mounted to a piece of plywood.  The upper fuze in the input and the lower fuze is the output to the batteries located inside the cabinet under the work bench.  The black component just under the top cabinets is a combination of voltage monitor, 12 volt cigarette type socket and a USB socket.  I added this for easy access to 12 volts while working at my workbench.  It is supplied by wires down to the batteries and covered with black plastic flexible covering.

The white A/C outlets are powered by the output from the 1,000 watt pure sine wave invertor. 

I learned a lesson about hooking up an Invertor.  I fried the one I got from Mike by not hooking up the 12 volt wiring before I plugged it in.  The second invertor noted that in the installation instructions.

The Invertor has a catastrophic 200 amp fuze in the input wiring.  This fuze is mounted at the bottom of the picture.

I normally have a three stage battery charger hooked up to the batteries but I am leaving it off because the almost 300 watts of solar seem top keep the batteries fully charges so far.

The batteries are located inside the cabinet under and close to the invertor, (very short cable run).

They are Optima sealed blue top batteries, (2 of them in paralell at 12 volts each).

The Invertor is plugged in and will come online automatically if the A/C power is lost.  The main function of this system is to maintain power to the freezer to the left in the third picture.

Another use of the system is to slow charge the Golf Cart.  I got a 10 amp 36 volt slow charger for the golf cart because the normal monster battery charger was boiling the batteries dry on a routine basis.

The third possible use is to power any of the power tools in my workshop.

Here are the pictures.

Next picture

last picture

Bill, a long way off from doing a full system but would like to ease that direction.

Questions:
-How many panels/watts are you putting on the DP?
-Did you already have room for the bank of six 105s or are a couple located nearby? (I have four 125s but my tray is full, would like to add a couple more and they'd have to go in the inverter bay adjacent to the battery bay.)
-What is your charge capability with the Xantrex 3000? (i.e., what is the amp rating of the charger?)
-Do you think a Xantrex 2000 (around 100a) would work with a bank of six 125s?
-I know it's expensive but have you considered lithium?

Scott,

I have two of the 140 watt panels still in the box for the DP.  I am on hold because Renae found a 2015 DP that she really likes, (bath and a half 43 footer).

I never did plan on being independent of hookups or the generator but rather wanted to extend the batteries by using supplemental Solar.

I just looked and I have 4 T-105s and not six.  I recently bought six new T-105s and was thinking about that when I posted.  I am looking for a way to use those six additional batteries if I can figure out an easy switching method for them in the golf cart.

I was also advised not to have the Invertor or the charge controller in the same compartment as the batteries because of the possibility of a spark with the possible presence of hydrogen gas from the batteries.

The Xantrex Freedom 458 3000 has a charging capability of 140 amps DC.  I did not know that but I just looked up the owners manual.

I do not think that there is any problem with oversizing the battery bank relative to the size of the Invertor.

I looked at Lithium and it seemed very expensive to me for the benefits.  I think lithium has its place, ( I have a lithium battery in my portable defibrillator ), but it seems like overkill for what the flooded cell batteries do.  Just my opinion.