Home generator advice needed

I don't think I've ever gotten bad advice on this forum (seriously!)... at least not collectively... even on non-RV questions.  So here goes.

Generators on RV's are obviously an often-discussed topic here, but I'm looking for suggestions on a generator for my stick house.  Last week I was one of thousands throughout IL who lost power for several days during torrential rainstorms.  Result = sump pump stopped and basement flooded.  We came home that first day to about 12" of standing water in our finished basement.   

My wife has an in-home personal training business and all her fitness equipment was in the basement home gym, as well as several musical instruments that we own.  We salvaged as much as we could, although her commercial-grade treadmill may be toast and not sure about the violin yet that was floating in the basement pond.  Upper drywall (lower had to be ripped out) and carpet are being dried by industrial dehumidifiers and turbine floor fans that have been roaring away for 3 days and will be down there another 2-3.

SO, this will not happen again because I am going to purchase a generator to have at home.  I don't need it to fully power the entire house, although I'm not against that option.  Budget around $500-600 or less.  Harbor Freight sells a few that fit the bill and have pretty high ratings... several models that offer 8750 peak / 7000 running watts of power are currently priced at $569.  When I owned my motorhome, it had an Onan 5000w genset that I used to power the sump pump a few times.  I'd like to be able to also power the fridge and furnace too, but I'm not sure of the power draw on the furnace.  Fridge should be minimal.

Anyone with ownership experience in home generators, jump right in!

I have no experience with home generators but I am an electrician. I can't imagine you would need more than a 2000 watt unit unless you were planning on running an a/c full time. Most of the stuff in your house just doesn't use a lot of power continually.

Could a larger capacity generator (such as the 7000w version) be easily wired into my home breaker box, to power the entire house within reason?  I'm imagining a plug that I can reach or access, to be extended and plugged into the portable generator as needed.  With a transfer switch that moves the power source to the generator instead of the exterior power line... much like many RV's have.  I don't have the budget for a natural gas permanently wired "Guardian" model like a few of my neighbors have.  Convenient?  Yes.  But I don't mind pulling out the generator and keeping the gasoline topped off whenever it's needed (rare).  Plus having something portable would allow me to move it around and lend to others.

I'd rather have a hardwired option than have to string extension cords all over the place to different appliances, like I did the last few days while borrowing a neighbor's generator.  And don't worry, I would have a qualified electrician do that wiring job!

Easily wired, no. But it is possible.

Installing a home generator won't help if your AC sump pump fails for any of a half dozen reasons.

I have an electronically controlled DC back-up sump pump which comes with enough battery to operate the pump for seven hours, which should be a number of days of actual pumping. It constantly shows number of hours it will pump and operates every day, reverse and forward, to ensure it is operating or to dislodge any rock or other debris it might pick up. It can operate as a primary or back-up and has alarms for everything. It performs a test discharge and type of equalizer charge on its lead acid battery and, except for watering the battery which is also alarmed, is maintenance free. About $600 at Home Depot.

If your power was off long enough to deplete the battery, you have another one right in your car.

scottydl said:

Could a larger capacity generator (such as the 7000w version) be easily wired into my home breaker box, to power the entire house within reason?  I'm imagining a plug that I can reach or access, to be extended and plugged into the portable generator as needed.  With a transfer switch that moves the power source to the generator instead of the exterior power line...

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You'll want one of these and not necessarily this one:  http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-250-Volt-7500-Watt-Non-Fuse-6-Circuit-Transfer-Switch-Kit-3006HDK/202213700

I had one similar to this one and just ran the cord through the walls to a outlet in the garage. Then when I lost power, I would roll out the generator to the outside of the garage, plug in a extension cord which I made then switched on whichever circuits I wanted to power up. You just need to wire it up to the circuits which are the most important one's. Like the fridge, sump pump, well pump, furnace, microwave etc.

A friend has a 12 volt pump with a solar panel to keep the battery charged. He also has a finished basement that flooded a couple of times.

The Guardian systems you mention have an integrated transfer switch to insure power does not go back out on the grid. This is required to protect those guys trying to restore your power.

The transfer switch I quoted is for 6 circuits. The one I had as for 10 circuits and I would highly recommend you purchase one with at least 10 circuits.

There are two ways to do the transfer: (1) individual circuits or (2) whole house via the load center. A manual switch is probably fine for either, unless you are away from the house for extended periods and need an auto-transfer cause you aren't there to do it manually.

If your furnace is forced air, the fan has a moderately hefty draw. If it's hot water, the circulation pump(s) aren't high demand items. Pumps of all kinds, including compressors, have a fairly high start up surge and a low-to-moderate draw depending on size (horsepower). You could power much of your entire house with a 4000 watt genset if you observe some modest care with running the various appliances. If not, even 10,000 may not be enough. The biggies are a/c and electric water heater (if you have electric vs gas). The water heater also likely requires 240v, so keep that in mind too. Less expensive gensets probably won't produce any 240v power.

This is one of those topics that require that you carefully think through what you actually need to do and prioritize convenience vs necessity.  It's easy enough to wire a genset to the main house load center, but that doesn't necessarily make everything work like normal unless you buy a huge genset. Your house power system is probably designed to utilize up to 150A or 200A @ 240v, i.e. as much as 48,000 watts! If you don't turn off the breakers for some circuits, there is a possibility the demand could skyrocket.  Take a look at the circuit breakers in the load center to get an idea about whole house vs selected circuits.

I have a generac 6600 out of a MH set up on a stand with wheels. When the power goes out, I go down and throw the main breaker for my 200 amp service. Then go to the garage, plug the generator into the welder outlet, fire up the generator and let it warm up a bit, then flip the breakers on the generator. That 6600 will run the whole house even the AC, just not at the same time. Can only run 1 high amp item at a time but it is doable. You just have to make sure the breaker is OFF going to the grid.

92GA said:

I have a generac 6600 out of a MH set up on a stand with wheels. When the power goes out, I go down and throw the main breaker for my 200 amp service. Then go to the garage, plug the generator into the welder outlet, fire up the generator and let it warm up a bit, then flip the breakers on the generator. That 6600 will run the whole house even the AC, just not at the same time. Can only run 1 high amp item at a time but it is doable. You just have to make sure the breaker is OFF going to the grid.

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Wrong, wrong, wrong. Code requires interlock on the main breaker or center off position on the manual transfer switch. If you forget to turn off the main breaker, you will energize the grid and potentially kill someone.

I knew somebody would say this. READ my last sentence !!

92GA said:

I knew somebody would say this. READ my last sentence !!

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The point that Happy was trying to get across is that's very very dangerous to back feed the way you described and possibly illegal in most communities. If the wrong person unknowingly turns on the main breaker during an outage, it could kill someone. I would urge everyone to not connect a portable generator this way. Spend the $300.00 or so for a proper disconnect switch and protect the one's out there trying to restore power in the middle of a storm.

Here's a good video explaining: http://www.ask.com/youtube?q=Hook+up+House+to+Portable+Generator&v=lkbBt8hv8mQ&qsrc=472

Backfeeding is the number one sin of electrical work. It is just plain wrong.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Code requires interlock on the main breaker or center off position on the manual transfer switch.

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I believe that is only if the genset is hardwired to the load center. Otherwise, a manual changeover is OK.

But I agree - there is still a risk that somebody will flip the main breaker back on - it happens more than one might imagine and the results can be tragic. Somebody says "I wonder if the power is back on?" and flips the main without asking anybody or considering the consequences.  Backfeeding is full of risks, and not just to the person doing it.

Here is another way of doing it and apparently it meets the National Electrical Code and the National Fire Protection Code. it seems to be a little pricey for me.

http://www.interlockkit.com/intro2.htm

Don't know how big your house is but my son is building a new home with an natural gas gen. His is 8k/or 10k? can't remember which for 5000.00 That will automatically kick on and off. And of course the local power co. has to inspect and certify.

William52 said:

Don't know how big your house is but my son is building a new home with an natural gas gen. His is 8k/or 10k? can't remember which for 5000.00 That will automatically kick on and off. And of course the local power co. has to insect and certify.

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I just had one installed last year and I believe all my electrician had to do was provide a set of plans to the power company. The Code Enforcement guy in my town had to come out and inspect it, that's all.  It's very possible it would differ in other communities.

Gary covered it quite well. Add up all the loads (volts X amps) from the various systems that will likely be operating at the same time and add a minimum of 25% to allow for startup. Obviously the furnace and a/c will never operate simultaneously so use the a/c number as it is higher. You now have the minimum size required for a backup generator.
If you want to use an inexpensive portable and wire it through the breaker panel, you will need a manual transfer panel. No licensed electrician will wire it direct, national fire and safety codes require that utility and standby power are kept separate. If the main breaker is switched on and power restored while the generator is supplying power, the circuits will be overloaded, the smoke will get out of the genny and there will be a real risk of fire.