Newbies cost issues.

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Where can I post questions about different finds on CL or other sites? Should I start a new topic?

Please start a new topic for specific questions about the rigs you look at, but you can append more general questions here. Too many questions in one message thread gets very confusing as multiple people post answers to different items, so using separate topics will avoid mixing answers together.
 
Dealers are rarely a good source of information on tow vehicle capability, RV quality, etc. Many RV sales people are just salesmen and have little or no RV experience or training, and what the tout is often just accumulated tales from customers or other sales people.  Plus. their sole motivation is to close the sale, not your safety or comfort.

RV dealers seldom proactively inspect and repair used RVs. Most of them will only react to the buyers complaint list, though they may do a cursory check, e.g. flip on light switches, see if the water pump delivers water to the faucet, etc.  And very few give any warranty on used rigs, so they aren't concerned about you bringing it back. They are mainly interested in spending as little as possible on repairs needed to complete the sale.
 
Guguluff said:
We had no problems with the car bought from a local dealer so we dismissed the warnings about the RV dealers schemes. And we heard that the dealers have low prices in January so we were kind of hurried to buy...

RV's are not cars.  If anything, they are more like houses... that move.  Very complex machines and many RV dealers do not camp themselves, and do not know the unique things about them.  The "BUY NOW IN JANUARY" is marketing nonsense.  You should NOT be in a hurry to get into an RV without learning, or you'll likely make some serious purchase mistakes along the way.  For perspective, I researched for a solid year before buying our first RV... and that was just for weekend/vacation use, nothing as drastic as fulltiming.  Our second RV I researched for probably 4-5 months to really determine what rig I wanted, how far I was willing to travel to buy it, and save up cash to determine how much I could pay.

The more time you spend researching and education yourself BEFORE you dive into the RV world, the better off you will be.  No all Craigslist ads with low prices are not scams, and all RV dealerships are not crooks.  If you walk into those situations being an informed, educated potential buyer, you will know how to recognize those risks. 

RV's are similar to boats/boating... there is a steep learning curve.  But once you catch on, it's an awesome and enjoyable way to spend your time.  But always with roadbumps along the way, that we can usually laugh at later.  But if you go into it expecting trouble-free travels and do not know how to deal with any of the problems yourself (whether mechanical, "house" upkeep, or service related), RV'ing will likely become a very expensive and non-enjoyable experience.
 
scottydl said:
But always with roadbumps along the way, that we can usually laugh at later.  But if you go into it expecting trouble-free travels and do not know how to deal with any of the problems yourself (whether mechanical, "house" upkeep, or service related), RV'ing will likely become a very expensive and non-enjoyable experience.
The problem is that my husband is not a handy man and he doesn't want to learn because he doesn't like it. I'm sure that he'll help me along the way but we'll gonna have to pay for major repairs.
Gary RV Roamer said:
Dealers are rarely a good source of information on tow vehicle capability, RV quality, etc. Many RV sales people are just salesmen and have little or no RV experience or training, and what the tout is often just accumulated tales from customers or other sales people.  Plus. their sole motivation is to close the sale, not your safety or comfort.
We found a nice sales man at the RV show that told us that at this price range all the trailers are the same and he stated some of the pluses of the model he sold (obviously).  But other than that I noticed their schemes. I just couldn't believe that the law doesn't apply to RVs, trailers (even to the expensive ones)...
92GA said:
You may have to drive a little ways to find the right trailer for YOU. I just bought at the end of Nov. and had to drive 350 miles to get it. Sometimes the right one for you won't be local, but you can feel if the owner is willing to talk about it. I've found if the seller has to think about an answer most of the time they aren't being truthful. You can also lump some owners as salesmen, they'll tell you anything to sell it.
Hope will get it right in the end... as OK as possible.
The one you recomanded seems fine and well priced, but why are so many for sale? http://loz.craigslist.org/rvs/5403920092.html I found so many on Rvtrader...

The insurance guy told us the prices:
1) New Trailer 22k- 23k $
+ A 2010 truck 20k - 21k $

500 deductable ( $634/year Trailer + 690/year Truck): $1,324 Total
250 deductable ( $754/year Trailer + 690/year Truck): $1,440 Total

2) Used trailer 16k $
+ A 2010 truck 20k - 21k $

500 deductable ( $533/year Trailer + 690/year Truck): $1,223 Total
250 deductable ( $633/year Trailer + 690/year Truck): $1,323 Total

3) Or an used class C RV that costs $ 27k
$855/year

We have the house and cars insurances at Statefarm so multiple cars discounts... If the trailer would be $ 12k it won't be much cheaper... Should we look for another insurance company?
 
I have State Farm for the house, boat, SUV and MH. The MH was in an EF1 tornado last fall with about $14,000 in damage. I gave SF one estimate and they accepted it and reduced it by only my $500 deductible.

My SUV was towed (loaded) and delivered to a Jeep dealer for repair with no cost for roadside assistance about one month before the tornado. They took it to the Jeep dealer of my choice.

For whatever reason (because I wouldn't give more than one estimate ?) they continued to reminded me at every future conversation that I could have the MH repaired at any facility that satisfied my requirements.
 
I would also be insurance shopping. I have never had a good quote from SF so I have never had insurance with them. There will be as many different opinions on insurance as there is for MH or TT. I didn't mention a class C because you were asking about trailers. It may be a lot cheaper to go with a older class C if you can find one that will work for you. My old Daybreak is only a shade over $500.00 for the year with 500 deductible 0 on glass. My buddy has SF and his insurance on his coach is almost double and his coach is older but worth almost what mine is within a couple grand. Thing is if it's going to sit in one spot a MH is not a good choise. Here is one that may work for you. http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/classc/2003-Winnebago-Minnie-30120.htm  and I'm sure there will be some near you that may work.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/rvd/5402865150.html

No matter what you need to pay and have it inspected, if the hubby don't want to work on one. Every one I have owned has always needed some tinkering, BUT I buy older ones that need the tinkering so I can get a better price. The class C will need the same maintenance as a trailer maybe more. If you end up going with a C check the over head bunk area real good, they tend to leak. Any signs of a leak run away from it fast as you can, no mater if they say it has been fixed, RUN.
 
Quillback, I'm sure that SF are a good insurance company. You pay more because if you need their services they will deliver. But I was hoping that it would be cheaper after someone sad that our estimate ($1400) was too big. Maybe we should shop around. Using the Progressive tool for the house it was the same as SF. 
92GA, thanks for all the links! I appreciate it. We like the trailer bunkhouse with separate rooms: bedroom in the front and bunk room in the back or vice versa. With 2 kids (2 and 10) we would need some privacy if we go on the road 3-4 week at a time.
But the main concern regarding the older class C was about the motor and the repairs, being more expensive in a class C compared to a truck. The dealers never offer warranty on used vehicles? We found some warranty (1 year or 12000 mile Powertrain Warranty - 30 Days on Major Appliances) but the units are ex-rentals and we kind of imagine what that does to an RV. I like this floor plan with the separate bedroom and the price is nice but around 130k miles on it... http://www.elmontervsales.com/vehicle-details/2009-four-winds-chateau-sport-28a-03a9f7429ce36f4594b91a6565864b6d/
And we have to tow our car so the gas consumption will go through the roof. I think...
The 1999 Jayco seems to old for us; I'm afraid to hit the road without a mechanic on board.  :D
But we could travel to Texas to get the right rig. We dream about moving south one day so why not.
 
If you look at both of the coachs I linked you, they DON'T have a front window on the overhang. EVERY one of those I've seen through the years have leaked at one time or another. That 99 is a basement model and will have a lot of storage. Plus it has Hydraulic Leveling Jacks, not many Cs have those. They both have slides = more room, for those nasty days when everyone is inside. Choose carefully, you don't want to make a $30,000.00 dollar mistake. A rental with those miles have had MANY people that don't care what happens to it live in it. 

"But the main concern regarding the older class C was about the motor and the repairs, being more expensive in a class C compared to a truck"


Not so sure about that. I see a lot of motor coachs at our local Ford dealer.
 
We were told that a 1/2 ton truck will do the job and some sales reps at RV dealers/ Ford dealership, told us that F-150 will be ok for a 6000-6500lbs TT.

An F-150 will be marginal, but sorta doable, for a 6500 lb trailer, IF that 6500 lbs is GVWR (max allowable weight), rather than the "dry" weight that so many sales folk like to use --  a big difference. I say "sorta doable" because though it will pull the trailer just fine at low altitudes and, especially, on the flats, up and down hills and higher altitudes will make it marginal at times. Besides PULLING the trailer, it also has to CONTROL the trailer and, along with the trailer brakes, stop the trailer as well as itself. Downhill, sharp curves, crosswinds, trucks going by and other things will affect the handling, so you need something solid.
 
The insurance estimates you got aren't out of reason IF the trailer part includes much more than just collision & comprehensive insurance. However, you may not need any more than those basic coverages if you already have homeowner or apartment owner policy. Insurance premiums often vary tremendously with individual parameters (home location, credit score, driving record, claim history, etc), so it is rarely useful to compare one person's rate with another. You need to shop your own, and you need to know what coverages are included in the quote and understand what they are for.

Remember that a trailer doesn't need any liability insurance and liability is usually a large part of the total. I find it odd that your quotes are almost as high for the trailer alone as for the truck.
 
Gary, his credit score is really good, no accidents, very good home location... I just hate insurance companies, so don't mind me. We just moved in this house and the sump pump overflowed resulting in half the basement flooded. They gave us nothing because the insurance was new and they didn't cover much in the first year. And... in eastern Europe the insurances were much lower. So I have to adjust to these rates.
"I find it odd that your quotes are almost as high for the trailer alone as for the truck." I don't know why is that. The insurance guy said he took into consideration the discounts.
Larry, will the age of the truck affect the towing capacity (so maybe lower it in time)? What would you recommend? We already have a Ford so we kind of like the inside and the price on some used models.
I'm pretty sure that around 6200 lbs was the dry weight. I checked the towing capacity for that model (4x4 supercab) and it was 8200 lbs.
92GA, thanks for the recommendations. We'll have to live without the front window if we buy a class C. I have to read more about fuel consumption and possible engine issues. I like the price on those units, the generator, the visibility and the fact that the kids can play at the table during the long drives. Not so much the floorplans and the driving experience (I never tried one though).

 
I recently got a quote from my agent on a used F350 and used Keystone 5th wheel. Full coverage on the truck.  The truck was just over 3X the camper cost.

Truck towing capacities do not go down with age.  They are fixed for the life of the truck.  HOWEVER  specifications do change from year to year.  Sometimes, they go down a little.  Sometimes they go up.  The general trend for trucks is up.  Towing capabilities vary significantly depending on how the specific truck is equipped.  Motor, transmission, rear end, 2 or 4 wheel drive,  tire size, towing package, suspension options will all affect the towing capacity.
 
"The truck was just over 3X the camper cost." I don't get it either. With $ 250 deductible, the new trailer's insurance is even higher than the truck's insurance.

Note to self! Some thoughts on cutting costs:
1. Better to buy used after research and after a professional inspection.
2. If using truck and travel trailer, the truck should be the (one of the) family's car so it won't be used just for pulling. 
3. Learn to DIY and repair the trailer & truck... easier said than done.
4. Shop around for insurances. Become insurance savvy.
5. Shop around for the right trailer/ truck and do your homework BEFORE buying.
6. Choose wisely before calling the inspector because you might not get that unit but you pay for the inspection anyway.
7. Print the inspection documents and make a video with the inspection.
8. Don't trust all the sales persons or the owners. Inspect the trailer as best as you can and look for potential problems.
9. After buying take care of the trailer & truck with periodical inspections (roof, back of the fridge, windows, propane/ musty smells, etc.) and maintenance.
10. Compare carefully the towing capacity of the truck, with the dry weight of the trailer + approximate load+ passengers + liquids.
 
My guess is that the insurance agent has included a "campground liability" package whose cost outstrips everything else. You can't buy insurance sight unseen, any more than you can buy the truck or trailer that way. Even if you aren't willing to get some basic savvy on insurance, at least ask the agent questions about what is included and why it is wanted/needed.
 
Guguluff said:
"The truck was just over 3X the camper cost." I don't get it either. With $ 250 deductible, the new trailer's insurance is even higher than the truck's insurance.

Note to self! Some thoughts on cutting costs:
10. Compare carefully the towing capacity of the truck, with the dry weight of the trailer + approximate load+ passengers + liquids.

You  have compiled a very good list!!!  You are smarter than most RV buyers!

My only comment would be to "Compare carefully the towing capacity of the truck, with the GVWR OF THE TRAILER + passengers"
Remember, there are two critical towing specs: 
Truck GVWR includes truck, passengers, cargo in the truck,  weight of hitch  and tongue / pin weight.  (What the truck carries)
Truck GCVWR includes truck, passengers, cargo in the truck, weight of hitch  and trailer GVWR          (What the entire rig weighs)
 
I'm still not good at the math behind the GVWR, GVM, GAWR... but I learned to look for the real dry W and GW on the yellow stickers or on the truck door for the e GCWR.
We've talked with some friends of our family that own a 26' TT and they were not at all scared by the yearly expenses. And the ones that were selling the 33' long TT said that they don't pay much if any. I'm pretty sure they don't have it insured because it staied in the garage.
Do we have to insure it year round? If parked in a storage parking lot most of the year? Is in mandatory?
I've cut on the first year expenses to 21k with:
Truck Down Payment
Truck Monthly Payment
Trailer (cash)
Dealer Taxes
Sales Taxes
RV Equipment
RV Monthly Cost
RV Use Cost
I think that the Truck Down Payment & Truck Monthly Payment are almost a wash with the lease that we have to terminate. It will cost us $1,200 more for the truck. And for the 2 month Rv use (camping fees, more gas) we can cut them off because 2 month in motels ($60 low price) will be the same as the RV expenses.
We'll gonna have to stay around 10k with the TT purchase.
 
You don't have to insure the trailer at all, unless you have a loan agreement that requires it (most do). Whether you want to have a $45k trailer with no insurance to protect you from a catastrophic loss is up to you (and the lender, if you have one). The risk of fire or theft doesn't go away just because it is in storage. Might even increase then.

Motorized RVs require liability insurance, just like any motor vehicle. States laws vary, but they all require some sort of liability coverage.
 
I believe that Good Sam advertises a policy that you can only insure for the months that you use the rig. I have never looked into it personally though.
 
Considering insurance, our experience recommends shopping around for your insurance. Over the past decades we have changed insurance companies three times. Our experiences are that there is often a significant variation in the premium cost for the same coverage with different companies. Also make sure you are comparing coverages that are what you want and are the same for each quote.
 
There are policies that reduce coverage for the time the RV is stored, e.g. suspending liability of a motorized RV during the time it is not driven. Basically it keeps comprehensive (fire/theft/vandalism) in effect while suspending liability & collision coverages.
 

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