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Author Topic: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem  (Read 3931 times)

BrentHG

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2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« on: March 16, 2016, 09:25:21 AM »
The GFI duplex outlet on the end of the sink cabinet keeps tripping, so I replaced it thinking it had gone bad.  Still the same problem, so I replace the 15amp circuit breaker, still trips GFI.  Anyone with 110v AC experience have an idea where I should be looking for the trouble?  There must be a a dead short somewhere.
Brent & Debbie
2005 Fleetwood Discovery 39S
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John Hilley

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2016, 09:40:53 AM »
Is it tripping without anything plugged in or only when you plug in a specific device. It may be that the outdoor receptacle is on the same circuit and is wet or damp.
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Alfa38User

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2016, 09:44:27 AM »
I would check any outdoor plugs (as on the Patio) for moisture. A GFI plug can protect up to 6 other daisy chained ordinary plugs and so there are many candidates for checking (possibilities might include plugs found in storage compartments, bathroom sink area,  120V in back of the refrigerator etc.)
Stu
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cbeierl

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2016, 11:30:15 AM »
Here are the Body, 110 Volt Wiring Diagram and Body, 110 Volt Wiring Installation diagram for your coach.  They well tell you what else is on that circuit as well as (roughly) where the wires physically run.
Chris Beierl
2005 Winnebago Vectra 36RD

John Canfield

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2016, 06:35:02 AM »
See if it trips when unplugged from shore power and with the gen set running.
--John
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BrentHG

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2016, 06:40:14 AM »
See if it trips when unplugged from shore power and with the gen set running.

Hey John,  it trips on shore power or generator power.  I have checked the outside duplex, dry as a bone.  Must be another outlet somewhere.  I have a technician working on it.
Brent & Debbie
2005 Fleetwood Discovery 39S
South Florida
http://knotatsea.blogspot.com

John Canfield

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2016, 06:44:33 AM »
If all of the outlets on that circuit are unplugged, then you might have a chafed wire.  I'm trying to think if I've ever heard of a circuit breaker causing a GFCI trip.  We need Seilerbird here for an opinion.
--John
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2016, 07:41:04 AM »
A GFCI trips when the hot or neutral wires in the outlet are shorted to ground, e.g. the ground wire or the RV chassis. The short may also be downstream from the outlet, if additional outlets are daisy chained to it (very likely in an RV - see the schematic Chris provided). Breakers have nothing to do with GFCI tripping.

If you don't have any lucjk visually inspecting for a short, disconnect the wires that daisy-chain to the next outlet and see if the trip still occurs. Repeat this process one at a time, along the line of outlets until you isolate the one that is causing the trip.  The optimum method is to pick a place in the middle of the circuit first, thus immediately showing which half has the problem. The other popular technique is to start at the  farthest end and work back towards the GFCI outlet.  That may take longer (depending on where the problem lies), but when you get to the one that stops the tripping, you know you have the culprit!
Gary
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John Canfield

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2016, 07:46:20 AM »
...If you don't have any lucjk visually inspecting for a short, disconnect the wires that daisy-chain to the next outlet and see if the trip still occurs...
I was going to recommend he do that but Winnie doesn't break the wiring at an outlet - it just presses on the Romex.
--John
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2016, 08:00:21 AM »
My coach is the same and it's a pain to disconnect outlets. However, I don't know any other way to isolate a short if a visual inspection doesn't turn up the problem area.

He only has to disconnect the hot (black) wire at each point, so one wire only.
Gary
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John Canfield

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2016, 02:40:50 PM »
He would have to cut the black wire since the mid-run outlets are pressed into the wire.
--John
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2016, 03:15:44 PM »
Yeap. Not pretty.

I don't know about Winnies, but the GFCI may not be a press in. The rest probably are.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 03:22:14 PM by Gary RV Roamer »
Gary
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John Canfield

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2016, 05:57:06 AM »
His GFCI should be the usual household duplex outlet. 
--John
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Bob T

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2016, 02:29:05 PM »
If his gfci is the usual household outlet and is protecting outlets downstream there will be line and load terminals, so the receptacle wont be pressed on.  Feed wires into line and downstream protection on load terminals. 
A gfci works by measuring the amperage that goes out ( on black wire) vs what comes back (on white wire). If it is 5 mA or greater difference it will trip out
If there is a direct short, ie power to ground, the breaker or fuse should be what trips.
First place I would look is to ensure the white and black on line side are both from the feed set. This is because you changed the plug.
Another place to look is to find out what the cct is feeding. There may be something on the cct that has a ground fault in which case the gfci is doing its job.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 02:31:20 PM by Bob T »
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Photog

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2016, 03:29:18 PM »
We had a very small water leak in a shower pipe that sprayed on an outlet.  It kept setting of the GFI.  It took a while to find it.
Bill
2004 Winnebago Adventurer 38R

John Canfield

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2016, 06:27:23 AM »
If his gfci is the usual household outlet and is protecting outlets downstream there will be line and load terminals, so the receptacle wont be pressed on...
AFAIK, the outlets are pressed on to the wire, like the image below.  I'll have to check mine to see what kind of receptacles I have downstream of the GFCI, you might be correct.
--John
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Bob T

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2016, 07:37:04 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, if Winnie is using pressed on connections the only one that wouldn't be pressed on is the gfci.
The terminals have to be seperate (line and load) so downstream protection may be achieved. Everything else may be and probably is the way John described.

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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2016, 08:15:33 AM »
I think we all agree the non-GFCI outlets will be the press-in type. The real question is whether there is enough wire slack at those outlets to pull them out enough to work on. It's not impossible to pull the hot wire from a press-in, but it takes some effort and needle-nose pliers and you need to be able to get at the back side with tools.
Gary
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John Hilley

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2016, 11:43:51 AM »
If you are working with the Hubbell Wirecon receptacles, you can snip the black wire between the two insulation displacement connections. Then just remove the downstream conductor. Snip off the area that had been in the contact and press the new end back into the contact with a slip joint plier. Continue to the end of the circuit. If you want to replace with a conventional receptacle, and there is enough depth, you can use Wago 3 conductor connectors. Insert the two conductors from the Wirecon receptacle and a pig tail a few inches long into the connector. The connect the pigtail to the new receptacle.

Hubbell Wirecon Installation Instructions
http://www.hubbell-wirecon.com/literature/InstallationGuide.pdf

Wago Connectors
http://www.wago.us/products/terminal-blocks-and-connectors/installation-connectors/overview/
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John Canfield

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2016, 06:07:33 AM »
Thanks for that bit of info John!
--John
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bobmacc

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2016, 08:06:56 PM »
As Bob T pointed out, a GFCI trips on as little as 5ma.of current  - a very small amount of current. If you have an older RV, check inside the outlet boxes for accumulations of dust. In a humid environment, that can trip the GFI. Also check the insulation on the wire for  any nicks or contact with anything metallic. A small fault in insulation could result in enough cuŕrent leakage to ground and trip the GFI. Likewise, check any locations where the wiring is tightly wrapped or passing thru metal for defects. The fact that the new GFI is tripping is evidence you have an issue. I had a similar issue and found that a cable staple holding the cable had nicked a conductor caùsing the GFI to trip. It took a long time to find it.  Good luck,
Bob
09 Winn Journey 39Z
Southern Ontario

Rene T

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Re: 2000 Adventurer 35U - 110v Elect Problem
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2016, 06:19:37 AM »
  We need Seilerbird here for an opinion.

Haven't heard from Tom Seiler in 2 or 3 weeks. Hope everything is OK with him. Maybe Catblaster has some info on Tom.
Rene, Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
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