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Author Topic: We made a dumb decision  (Read 6887 times)

Campfire RV

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We made a dumb decision
« on: March 23, 2016, 03:49:04 PM »
Well, my wife & I stopped at a dealership last Saturday on our way home from San Diego to look at some motorhomes. We found one in our price range that was a nice upgrade from our "C" class and I was really happy with how it felt driving. We decided to purchase it so we filled the paperwork, credit check was good, they offered us a decent $$$$ for our trade-in and we signed the purchase order.

We felt good going home and Sunday we discovered this particular coach was overpriced compared to several other dealerships we looked at around the southern California area. We haven't taken possession of the coach and we haven't given the dealership our trade-in which is supposed to happen this Saturday. We signed the purchase order and gave our downpayment while at the dealership Saturday. While signing the purchase order they told us when we come back next Saturday we would have to sign another contract before taking possession.

Can we get out of this purchase or are we stuck at this point? We have spoken with three other dealerships now and they all told us that the purchase "IS NOT" complete until we take possession of the coach. We also spoke with the California DMV Inspections department and they provided me with the CVC 5901(d) which states:
     "A sale is deemed completed and consummated when the purchaser of the vehicle has paid the purchase price, or, in lieu thereof, has signed a purchase contract or security agreement, and has taken physical possession or delivery of the vehicle."

When we spoke with the sales manager yesterday at the dealership they were quite angry with us and began telling us that the coach is our because we already signed the contract and they had spent money to add the couple small items we asked for. After speaking with other dealers and the DMV Inspections department I emailed the dealership sales manager and he responded with the following:
   
     "Mr. ______,

The contract you signed has a NO COOLING OFF statement at the bottom, you willfully signed this contract under no duress.

It is perfectly normal to have feelings of remorse or regret on a large purchase such as this. Once you and your wife go camping you will enjoy the motorhome and you will feel at ease about your decision to purchase the coach.

I apologize, but Iím simply unable to cancel the Contract.
 

Thanks for your business.

Sales Manager"


The other dealers we spoke with told the dealership may give us a hard time and threaten us to put the fear of God in us in order to make us come in and complete the sale. I really don't feel comfortable about this situation and I'm not really sure what action to take now. I know the dealer we purchased the coach with wants to sale it because it is used and they want it off their lot. When we were there, they kept telling us if you want it you need to make an offer now because there are several people coming in this afternoon to look at it and it will be gone by tomorrow. So far, the dealership is telling us the coach is ours because we signed the contract but three other dealers are saying not until we take possession which is what the DMV stated in the CVC 5901(d) code as well.

We're supposed to provide them with my copy of my pay and the registration of our current coach before going this Saturday to pick up the new coach. The other dealers and DMV all said as long as we don't provide them with that information and we don't go to the dealership then we are not entitled to complete the purchase. I'm confused and I don't want to get in any trouble here but I also don't want to go through with this purchase.

Please provide feedback as to what you think on this. Thank you!
Josh
2012 Thor Chateau 28Z
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UTTransplant

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2016, 04:08:57 PM »
No one here who is not licensed as an attorney in your state can provide you advice. Well, except any of us could tell you to call an attorney right now! Bring all your paperwork, and see what they say.
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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2016, 04:13:29 PM »
Read your contract very closely. Usually, there is a time frame where you can back out of the deal within so many days.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
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Campfire RV

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 04:24:50 PM »
Read your contract very closely. Usually, there is a time frame where you can back out of the deal within so many days.

The contract states "NO COOLING OFF" near the bottom and there is no cooling off period for RV's in the state of California. I'm just confused because three other dealerships and the DMV Investigation Department have all told me I don't have to do anything because I never took possession of the coach yet.
Josh
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Rene T

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 04:28:18 PM »
Contact a attorney first thing tomorrow morning. If you can be at his door with the contract when he opens up his office.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
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NickB

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 04:47:58 PM »
Did you sign the retail installment contract (bank contact)? If not, call the CA attorney general. Even just mentioning the attorney general to the dealer will probably change their minds quick.

If you added something custom, they have a right to charge you something because they're probably going to lose money because of your decisions. You should be able to negotiate something fair with them.
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Campfire RV

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 04:57:30 PM »
Did you sign the retail installment contract (bank contact)? If not, call the CA attorney general. Even just mentioning the attorney general to the dealer will probably change their minds quick.

If you added something custom, they have a right to charge you something because they're probably going to lose money because of your decisions. You should be able to negotiate something fair with them.

Yes, we signed the "Retail Installment Contract - Simple Finance Charge" while we were there. We're willing to pay for the couple items we asked them to add so they don't have to worry about losing anything.
Josh
2012 Thor Chateau 28Z
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Alpha Tow Bar/Blue Ox base plate
U.S. Navy Retired
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scottydl

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2016, 04:58:35 PM »
The contract states "NO COOLING OFF" near the bottom and there is no cooling off period for RV's in the state of California. I'm just confused because three other dealerships and the DMV Investigation Department have all told me I don't have to do anything because I never took possession of the coach yet.

I'm not sure what legal standing the "DMV Investigation Department" has, or what authority they are using to quote that information to you.  That would be an important piece of information to find out.  You may not be required to buy the coach, but I'm  not sure the dealership is required to return your down payment either.  As mentioned, an attorney in your area may be able to help... but that won't be free either.  In my area they usually bill at around $300/hour minimum, which might cover the cost of sending a single letter to the dealership.

Do you mind sharing what type of money we're talking about?  Your decision will likely come down to balancing the amount of your down payment (that you don't want to forfeit), the amount of difference between this purchase and similar model(s) on other lots, and the amount that legal services would cost.  This misdeal will probably cost you some money one way or the other, unless the dealer just decides it ain't worth the hassle to them... which is always possible.

Prior to going the lawyer route, which will automatically make things confrontational, you could call the dealer again and say, "I'm sorry but I cannot buy the coach from you.  What can we negotiate?"  And see what they suggest (such as, a fee for their troubles, a percentage of your down payment, etc). 

For any other RV shoppers reading this post, this incident is a perfect reason to NOT let emotion drive the boat when shopping for RV's!  Take your smartphone along, and always be checking NADAguides.com, other dealers' sites, and Craigslist for similar rigs to compare prices.  (Campfire I'm not putting you down or anything, as I realize that you are well aware of those issues at this moment.)
Scott, wife, 3 boys... and the dog
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Rene T

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2016, 05:02:26 PM »
Prior to going the lawyer route, which will automatically make things confrontational, you could call the dealer again and say, "I'm sorry but I cannot buy the coach from you.  What can we negotiate?"  And see what they suggest (such as, a fee for their troubles, a percentage of your down payment, etc). 

They already tried to talk to the dealership to no avail. They signed the contract last Saturday and if there is a law where they may have 7 days to back out, they need to move fast. I still say contact a attorney tomorrow.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

Campfire RV

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2016, 05:39:20 PM »
I'm not sure what legal standing the "DMV Investigation Department" has, or what authority they are using to quote that information to you.  That would be an important piece of information to find out.  You may not be required to buy the coach, but I'm  not sure the dealership is required to return your down payment either.  As mentioned, an attorney in your area may be able to help... but that won't be free either.  In my area they usually bill at around $300/hour minimum, which might cover the cost of sending a single letter to the dealership.

Do you mind sharing what type of money we're talking about?  Your decision will likely come down to balancing the amount of your down payment (that you don't want to forfeit), the amount of difference between this purchase and similar model(s) on other lots, and the amount that legal services would cost.  This misdeal will probably cost you some money one way or the other, unless the dealer just decides it ain't worth the hassle to them... which is always possible.

Prior to going the lawyer route, which will automatically make things confrontational, you could call the dealer again and say, "I'm sorry but I cannot buy the coach from you.  What can we negotiate?"  And see what they suggest (such as, a fee for their troubles, a percentage of your down payment, etc). 

For any other RV shoppers reading this post, this incident is a perfect reason to NOT let emotion drive the boat when shopping for RV's!  Take your smartphone along, and always be checking NADAguides.com, other dealers' sites, and Craigslist for similar rigs to compare prices.  (Campfire I'm not putting you down or anything, as I realize that you are well aware of those issues at this moment.)

The CVC 5901(d) is a section in the California Vehicle Code which states clearly the sale isn't complete until the buyer takes possession of the vehicle. I'm trying to avoid confrontation with the dealership and we are willing to pay for the extra items we requested to be added which is no big deal.

The coach we were purchasing is a 2013 for $74k and we gave a down payment of $3800+trade-in. We've had a difficult time getting in touch with the dealership salesperson or manager via phone so I've emailed them a few times now indicating we don't want to purchase the coach now and are willing to work something out. All they have responded with so far is that we signed the contract and the coach is ours.
Josh
2012 Thor Chateau 28Z
2007 Toyota RAV4 FWD/Remco lube pump
Alpha Tow Bar/Blue Ox base plate
U.S. Navy Retired
Good Sam Life Member

Campfire RV

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2016, 05:40:23 PM »
They already tried to talk to the dealership to no avail. They signed the contract last Saturday and if there is a law where they may have 7 days to back out, they need to move fast. I still say contact a attorney tomorrow.

We are trying to get an appointment for a consultation tomorrow with a local lawyer now.
Josh
2012 Thor Chateau 28Z
2007 Toyota RAV4 FWD/Remco lube pump
Alpha Tow Bar/Blue Ox base plate
U.S. Navy Retired
Good Sam Life Member

Tom

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2016, 05:52:28 PM »
Call the Bar Association for your county and ask for a referral to a lawyer dealing with these situations. You'll pay a nominal fee ($50-$100) to the association, and you'll get pro bono time with a lawyer (30 minutes to an hour).

We've done this in several counties in California, for a variety of legal issues. We've always met with experienced and knowledgeable lawyers and, in most cases, the pro bono time was sufficient to answer our questions. In a small number of cases, it required more time, and we were free to hire the same lawyer or someone else.
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Campfire RV

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2016, 05:56:37 PM »
Call the Bar Association for your county and ask for a referral to a lawyer dealing with these situations. You'll pay a nominal fee ($50-$100) to the association, and you'll get pro bono time with a lawyer (30 minutes to an hour).

We've done this in several counties in California, for a variety of legal issues. We've always met with experienced and knowledgeable lawyers and, in most cases, the pro bono time was sufficient to answer our questions. In a small number of cases, it required more time, and we were free to hire the same lawyer or someone else.

Thanks for your feedback Tom, we'll make a call to them today and see what happens.
Josh
2012 Thor Chateau 28Z
2007 Toyota RAV4 FWD/Remco lube pump
Alpha Tow Bar/Blue Ox base plate
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Tom

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2016, 06:21:35 PM »
I hope you get good advice and a favorable answer.

I've never been comfortable when dealers have asked me to sign/initial the "no cooling off period" clause. The cooling off period is there for a reason, but dealers just want you to sign away your rights. Don't know how valid it is, and whether they can enforce it.
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John From Detroit

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2016, 06:37:34 PM »
In most states, you have by law a period of hours to change your mind.. Without researching the rules in the state where you signed the contract YOU MAY BE WITHIN THE TIME FRAME.. you need to hand the dealer a WRITTEN change of mind.. I do not know if it needs to be notorized or what other requirements are.. But it does need to be written.   Act fast.
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Peteyboy

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2016, 07:05:01 PM »
On the other hand,,,
Arizona has the same "no cooling off" deal, which we were advised of when we bought our MH last year.  We had to wait a week for them to get it ready, and we did have doubts in the meantime and wondered if we had made a mistake, and we are talking about some serious, for us, money here.  After a year, we could not be happier, and really, would not have done the deal if we would have went home and thought about it. It was done on a whim, and was just meant to be I guess.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 07:06:58 PM by Peteyboy »
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scottydl

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2016, 07:05:53 PM »
Call the Bar Association for your county and ask for a referral to a lawyer dealing with these situations. You'll pay a nominal fee ($50-$100) to the association, and you'll get pro bono time with a lawyer (30 minutes to an hour).

We've done this in several counties in California, for a variety of legal issues. We've always met with experienced and knowledgeable lawyers and, in most cases, the pro bono time was sufficient to answer our questions. In a small number of cases, it required more time, and we were free to hire the same lawyer or someone else.

Best advice by far!  With $3800 paid already, you ought to be able to hire some simple legal services and come out on top.  Dropping off a notarized letter at the dealership with your intent and the text of CVC 5901(d) copied would be a good first step.  You don't have to say anything if they don't want a discussion, just deliver the letter and leave.  But DO stay if they read the letter and are then willing to talk.  Proceed with the legal route otherwise, or simultaneously.

You won't likely win any legal battles over the phone or by e-mail, so those methods are probably worthless at this point if they haven't yielded any results yet.
Scott, wife, 3 boys... and the dog
- 2008 Forest River Wildwood 32BHDS
- 1995 Chevrolet Suburban C2500 tow vehicle
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Dragginourbedaround

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2016, 11:14:45 PM »
On the other hand,,,
Arizona has the same "no cooling off" deal, which we were advised of when we bought our MH last year.  We had to wait a week for them to get it ready, and we did have doubts in the meantime and wondered if we had made a mistake, and we are talking about some serious, for us, money here.  After a year, we could not be happier, and really, would not have done the deal if we would have went home and thought about it. It was done on a whim, and was just meant to be I guess.
Same in VA & FL.
Gene

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Frizlefrak

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2016, 11:29:20 PM »


We felt good going home and Sunday we discovered this particular coach was overpriced compared to several other dealerships we looked at around the southern California area.

OK, by how much?  What I'm getting at is will it cost more to back out of this deal than going through with it and chocking it up to experience?  If you hire an attorney, it's going to cost you money and time, and your deposit will likely be tied up until the issue is resolved one way or another....and you could still lose. 

Before the revelation that you could get the same coach for less money, you were happy with the deal, right?  You liked the coach, right?  And these other coaches that are less money....are they IDENTICAL to what you're looking at in every way?  You're buying a 3 year old RV....is it possible the cheaper ones are higher mileage or not in as good a condition?

Look....I'm not saying cave in and buy it....I'm saying weigh your options carefully before going down Litigation Boulevard.  It could wind up costing you more than you would save by getting out of the deal....and could tie you up from buying another coach in the meantime, and you miss the summer camping season.  We've all been there before in one way or another.....bought a big ticket item only to discover we could have gotten a better/cheaper/faster/prettier/shinier etc for the same money.  Live and learn. 

I'm gonna go against the grain here....unless we're talking seriously big money here, finish the deal, take your new coach home and enjoy it. 
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BoomerD

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2016, 02:51:08 AM »
California law DOES offer a 2-day "cooling off period" for used cars with a selling price under $40,000...IF you buy a contract cancellation option agreement, but it doesn't apply to recreational vehicles.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr35

I agree with those who have said that it will cost a LOT for a lawyer...and the lawyer will PROBABLY tell you that you're stuck. Once you signed the contract, the vehicle is yours...providing you can get the financing for it.

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malexander

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2016, 04:28:43 AM »
OK, by how much?  What I'm getting at is will it cost more to back out of this deal than going through with it and chocking it up to experience?  If you hire an attorney, it's going to cost you money and time, and your deposit will likely be tied up until the issue is resolved one way or another....and you could still lose. 

Before the revelation that you could get the same coach for less money, you were happy with the deal, right?  You liked the coach, right?  And these other coaches that are less money....are they IDENTICAL to what you're looking at in every way?  You're buying a 3 year old RV....is it possible the cheaper ones are higher mileage or not in as good a condition?

Look....I'm not saying cave in and buy it....I'm saying weigh your options carefully before going down Litigation Boulevard.  It could wind up costing you more than you would save by getting out of the deal....and could tie you up from buying another coach in the meantime, and you miss the summer camping season.  We've all been there before in one way or another.....bought a big ticket item only to discover we could have gotten a better/cheaper/faster/prettier/shinier etc for the same money.  Live and learn. 

I'm gonna go against the grain here....unless we're talking seriously big money here, finish the deal, take your new coach home and enjoy it.



I'm sort of in this camp. I've made "emotional" decisions before too.
If you were happy with the deal initially, finish it. Go ahead and swallow the sour taste, and enjoy the "new" rig.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2016, 07:35:49 AM »
The price differential would have to be substantial to get into a legal confrontation with the dealer. Frizzlefrack pretty much summed up what I'm getting from reading about your problem, so I won't repeat.

While the sale is "not complete" until delivery, I don't think that necessarily means you can cancel without penalty. It appears you did sign a sales contract, you did make a payment, and you did agree to "No Cooling Off Period". Morally and ethically you are committed to the sale. Maybe there is a way to wiggle out of it, but it may not be worth the effort & cost.

It's also clear that you were originally satisfied with the price you paid, so maybe there isn't all that much to fret about.
Gary
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NickB

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2016, 09:13:43 AM »
Yes, we signed the "Retail Installment Contract - Simple Finance Charge" while we were there. We're willing to pay for the couple items we asked them to add so they don't have to worry about losing anything.

A different perspective
Once you complete your paperwork, a bunch of stuff happens "behind the scenes".
The F&I person or title clerk will process your paperwork.
They'll send the lender their forms and they will begin to create an account for you.
They'll send your previous lender a payoff if you had one. This is a (possibly) large check coming out of the dealers operating capital, usually before they've even been funded for your new one.
They'll send a check to the DMV to cover licensing fees, but also the Sales Tax, which is likely thousands of dollars. Again, out of their own money.
They'll have to pay their lender for the full cost of the unit (their "floorplan"), often before they've been funded.
If you added any service contracts or even 3rd party warranties, they'll send these out to the respective companies, who will activate the contracts for you.
They've ordered and installed optional equipment for you and PDI'd the unit to make it ready to pickup.
This whole time, they're waiting on your new lender to pay them.

Also, you may have signed a "Delivery Receipt and Storage Agreement", which will likely void your "didn't take delivery" argument.

Being as you had a trade-in, are you sure that the deal wasn't good? It may be that you've found a better list price, but that dealer would not have been able to offer you the same trade allowance.

I asked about the Contract because if you sign a buyer's order and the dealer won't let you off, they're being unethical.If you signed the Installment contract, you bought the vehicle for all purposes moral and practical.If you take this to court, make no mistake, you will need to sue them. They will sell your trade in the mean time. You will be liable to make payments to the lender or they will report you delinquent on your credit report. And of course there will be legal fees. It will be messy.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 10:01:14 AM by NickB »
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Frank Hurst

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2016, 09:19:11 AM »
This won't help Campfire RV, but maybe this will help others. This is why I always "Sleep On" large purchases before I sign any papers.

Frank Hurst
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Tom

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2016, 09:46:09 AM »
Quote from: Frank Hurst
This is why I always "Sleep On" large purchases before I sign any papers.

... and why I always tell folks not to fall in love with the first RV they see, and to leave the check book at home.
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Tom

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2016, 09:53:56 AM »
I don't know how morally or ethically bound the dealer would be when trying to enforce the sale and collect their money. But it will be interesting to see what the legal beagles say. I'm especially interested in the legality, enforceability, morality and ethics of dealers having buyers sign the "no cooling off" clause.
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Derby6

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2016, 11:16:44 AM »
I'm in the "we all second guess big purchases" camp.
Take the rig, enjoy it and live and learn.

IN EDIT:  I seldom make immediate larger purchases.  I definitely lost out on a few deals, but I always say, "it wasn't meant to be."  I only act instantly or immediately, if I know 99% its is a steal of a deal, because I have been looking and know the market on the item.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 11:20:14 AM by Derby6 »
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Frizlefrak

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Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2016, 11:20:57 AM »
This won't help Campfire RV, but maybe this will help others. This is why I always "Sleep On" large purchases before I sign any papers.

Frank Hurst

Indeed.  I've made impulsive decisions before....they usually didn't work out great, and if they did, it was just blind luck.

The salesman will tell you "I have 4 other people looking at this rig...the time to act is now."  Nonsense....if he did, one of them would have probably bought it.  That's an old tactic to get you to make an impulsive decision.  Go home and sleep on it.  Can save you a lot of grief.

But I digress.  I think if the OP hadn't stumbled on a "cheaper" coach, he'd be posting pics of his great new RV a week from now, and having a blast with it this summer.  The sour taste in his mouth isn't the RV, it's the deal.  And here's why that shouldn't be the case...


A different perspective

Being as you had a trade-in, are you sure that the deal wasn't good? It may be that you've found a better list price, but that dealer would not have been able to offer you the same trade allowance.


When trade ins, financing, and options are involved, the priced gets juggled 6 ways from Sunday.  You might have got it $5000 cheaper at another dealer....and they might have offered you $6000 less on your trade.

My advice....Go in to the dealer, finish the deal, and enjoy your new RV.  Life is too short to waste it, and I think pursuing legal recourse on this (if there indeed IS any) is a waste of your time.  If it makes you feel vindicated, you can give the dealer the middle finger salute when you're driving off.
2014 Ram 2500 Cummins
2012 Palomino 30' TT

NickB

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  • Posts: 271
  • RV Dealer
Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2016, 11:22:48 AM »
If it makes you feel vindicated, you can give the dealer the middle finger salute when you're driving off.

Best advice I've ever seen given on any forum, ever  ;D
Current RV pro, Lifetime RV'er!
Former RVIA Master Certified Technician
Licensed RV Insurance Agent and Finance Professional

Derby6

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  • Posts: 674
Re: We made a dumb decision
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2016, 12:05:59 PM »
Frizlefrak,
  I fixed it for you... ;D :P

If it makes you feel vindicated, you can give the dealer the middle finger salute when you're driving off warranty expires.
2015 Ford Explorer (Wifes Ride)
2011 Ford F350 4x4 Lariat Crew Cab/Long Bed/SRW
2011 Honda Civic-- (Beater with a heater)
2007 28' Desert FOX Toy Hauler             
TOYS:
01 Yamaha Kodiak 400
09 Yamaha Grizzly 550
12 Yamaha Grizzly 450
13 Yamaha Rhino 700 (Wifes Ride)
13 & 14  144" & 155" SKI DOO

 

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