Can I pull that 5W???

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bdaun

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Apr 5, 2016
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Hi.  Complete novice newbie... and I have the confusion to prove it.  I have a 2015 GMC 2500HD Diesel Crew Cab.  GMC documentation says I can hitch tow 13K and 5w tow 17,100.  GMC documentation also says "Fifth-wheel or gooseneck kingpin weight should be 15 percent to 25 percent of trailer weight up to 3000 lbs maximum".  I "think" I  understand all of that.  What I don't understand is the B pillar sticker that says max cargo is 2,240lbs.    Does that mean the max KingPin weight is 2240 (and that would be w/o people or any 'stuff' in the truck)???? 

I'm looking at a 2013 Keystone Avalanche 345TG with ShippingWt: 11421, CargoWt: 2719, and HitchWt: 2140.  Can I pull this legally and safely with my truck?

Thanks in advance!!

 
That Avalanche is a nice camper, but it is WAY too much for your truck.

First, the GMC documentation is based on a base model with few options, no passengers or cargo.

The B pillar sticker is specific to your truck.  The absolute most weight your truck can carry is 2,240#. Period.  That limit includes all weight.
The pin wt, after adding your gear, will be closer to 2400# - 2500#.  Including a hitch, you are 400# overweight before you even get in the truck.

Add up the weight of all passengers, pets and cargo in the truck. Add 200# for the hitch.  Subtract all of this from 2,240# max cargo wt.  That is your MAX PIN WT.

If you, your wife and truck cargo weigh only 500#, your max pin wt of the LOADED 5er is 1540#.  At 20% pin wt, that is a GVWR on the 5er of 7700#.

There are lots of people pulling 5ers this size and larger with 2500 CC pickups..  They appear to have no trouble.  If they are ever in an accident, regardless of fault, they likely will lose their shirt for being GROSSLY overloaded.

In short, you CAN NOT pull that Avalanche legally OR safely with your 2500 pickup.  Sorry.
 
Thanks for the quick reply.  I must admit I remain confused on how this all works.  And golly geez... I have degree in chemical engineering (which I suppose to some people works against me :)).  So, based on what you provided, I can only pull a 5W with a GVWR of around 7700#. 

So am I to forgo the 5w and go TT???  If the cargo weight is the issue, does that mean I can pull a 37' Laredo 335  TT that weighs 10635# and has a hitch weight of 1900# (let's assume its just my 200# in the truck).  That is counter intuitive.  I thought the 5w was an easier, safer and an all around better way to tow.

I'm also confused using http://rvtowcheck.com/rvtc_calculator.html with GCWR=24500, GVWR=10000, GVW=6525 (published, not scale), gear/cargo=500, and passenger=300.  I used 19% pin wt % using the published values from Keystone (2140/11421).  That says I should be able to safely to about 12000 (not quite the 17,100 purported by GMC but still a lot more than 7700#

All of that to say... 1) Thank you again for helping.  I don't mean for my response to be argumentative.  I meant to convey it is unfortunate that if it is as simple as "you can have 2240# MAX, end of story"  I don't know why there is any question.  2) I find it odd, that in order to meet a 7500#/1500#  GVWR/PIN, I have to look at what Keystone calls their 1/2 ton models.  In fact, I can't even tow their bigger "1/2 ton models".  3) Guess I shoulda got a 3500 (I should've joined the forum a year ago!).
 
I'm not quite as conservative as grashley, but his advice is solid regardless.

The truck has to carry the pin weight, which (for estimating purposes) will be about 20% of the trailer GVWR. The actual pin weight is typically 20-25% of the actual loaded trailer weight, so using 20% of the max is a pretty fair estimate until you get it loaded with your personal gear and onto a scale.  The cargo capacity shown on the B piller includes an allowance for a full fuel tank and a 154 lb driver, but you have to subtract from that anything else carried in the truck. That means passengers and the 5W hitch. So yes, the max pin weight it can handle is somewhat less than the 2240 lbs. Maybe something like 1900.  That means a 5W with a GVWR of around 9500 lbs.

Your truck can PULL a lot more weight than it can CARRY, thus the 17,100 lb tow rating. You could tow that much if you had some way to carry the pin weight of a trailer that heavy. Some types of trailers aren't so nose heavy, but an RV 5W isn't one of them.

The Keystone published pin weight is for an empty & dry trailer. The proportion of weight on the pin will go up when the trailer is loaded. Most are upwards of 20% and often as much as 25%.
 
The rvtowcheck calculator figures you can carry the difference between the truck actual weight in the truck GVWR, which (using your numbers) would be 10,000 - 6525 = 3475. That number, vs GM's actual 2240, explains the difference in what rvtowcheck calculated.  My guess is that your base weight number is way low. Your vehicle registration or title probably has its curb weight listed and I'll bet its higher than 6525. And the listed curb weight is probably a bit on the low side as well.
 
bdaun said:
Thanks for the quick reply.  I must admit I remain confused on how this all works.  And golly geez... I have degree in chemical engineering (which I suppose to some people works against me :)). 
Click to expand...

That explains a lot!!!  My degree is Chemistry.  My avocation is doing the work of the Lord.

In a car pool years ago, a person working in Finance asked what is the difference between a Chemist and a Chem E.  John, a brilliant PhD Chemist responded that the Chemist works to create novel new compounds with unique properties. With more experimentation and compounding, new products are created which will keep the company profitable years into the future.

The Chemical Engineer had to go to college for 4 years to become a plumber.

Sorry, I could not resist.
 
In my case, I've managed to max out the GVWR on my truck while only pulling a TT that weighs 7600# loaded.  My truck has a Leer topper, and a 75 gallon auxiliary fuel tank.  It weighs 8400# when its full of fuel, loaded and ready to go, including the hitch.  The trailer adds another 1000# of weight to the hitch, which maxes out the 9400# GVWR of the truck.  The weight of the whole rig scales at a little over 16000 lbs.  Performs very well, but due to all the junk I'm hauling in the truck, the trucks' GVWR  is maxed out. 

Most would assume that a 2500HD Diesel would pull a travel trailer much heavier than one that weighs 7600 lbs.
 
@Preacher Gordon
You know, in the past when asked what does a chemical engineer do I would always respond I was "an overpaid plumber".  But... in all honesty that is unfair to the plumbers.  I worked for years in the pharmaceutical industry and while I did my share of piping design... they guys (and gals) that actually do the work were amazing (well, at least the ones we hired... all 316L SS work, gotta love shiny piping  :D ).  Then again, perhaps only a ChE can get excited about shiny stainless steel piping....

As for your avocation... I share it.  My wife and I are both recently retired and we've spent most of our travels on mission work around the globe.  We're going to keep doing that 'work' but decided it was time to travel a bit of the US. 

take care and thanks again for the advice (I'm still searching for that perfect 5er).

BD
<><
 
Reminds me of an inside family joke....my older sis just retired from the federal govt.  I would chat with her on Google Messenger while I was at work back in the day.  The Messenger, if nobody had chatted for a while, would say (next to the user name) "Idle".  I used to kid her....."you're a govt worker and your status says "idle".....that sounds about right.    :)

Truth be known, she was anything but.  Hard job, and she did it well.  People in federal jobs usually work very hard.

Back to the OP's original issue.  A 2500 truck isn't ideal for hauling a bigger fifth wheel....they just don't have the payload capacity.  That is the main constraining factor in that equation.  I have a 2014 Ram 2500 Cummins....it's advertised towing capacity is 17,900 lbs.  A fifth wheel of that size would have a pin weight of close to 4000 lbs....WAY over my payload capacity.  A conventional (ie "bumper pull") trailer that weighs 17,900 lbs would have a hitch weight of about 2000-2100 lbs.  Within my capacity.  That's the short version of how this works.
 
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