EPDM Coatings
rvupgradestore.com Composet Products PO Box Zone
Over The Network Custom Yacht Interiors

Author Topic: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?  (Read 1356 times)

BalderDash!

  • Posts: 2
I am new to RVing, and have spent about a year finalizing my choices. It all came down to where I started: Leisure Travel Vans "Unity" Murphy Bed. Primarily because of the size of the shower, and, well (to be honest) the size of me!  :(

Anyway, I retire this July, and was just on the verge of starting to request prices from the LTV dealers when -- out of the "blue" (pun intended) -- the BlueTEC scandal seems ready to burst onto the scene, big-time. This is on the coattails of the VW scandal concerning 40-times higher pollution rates than are allowed in the USA emitting from their diesels. Now, a law firm is suing Mercedes-Benz over a similar problem -- and it affects Sprinter-based engines; plus, they supposedly emit up to 65 times the allowable NOx pollution levels. Assuming you believe the lawsuit.

Article here: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/18/mercedes-benz-diesel-bluetec-emissions-lawsuit/

I realize this news is not incredibly new, but now Mercedes-Benz has started its own investigation, under pressure from our Justice Department -- and that news was released only yesterday:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/04/21/mercedes-benz-parent-daimler-launches-emissions-probe/83361108/

So... I'm now turned off by anything sporting a Mercedes-Benze diesel engine.
To be honest, with VW, BMW, Audi -- and now Mercedes -- caught up in this debacle, I don't think I trust any German car manufacturer! There is simply no way -- in my humble opinion -- that they all came up with these cheating schemes "on their own". Can you spell "c.o.l.l.u.s.i.o.n"?

I also found it curious that Leisure Travel Vans -- coincidentally enough -- just announced their next "Wonder" RV, sporting a Ford diesel for the first time. And I have to "wonder" if it's, somehow, related to worries over where the BlueTEC issue may lead? And will a person buying an RV with BlueTEC find themselves unable to sell them 4 or 5 years from now. Or, at the very least, suffering depreciation unlike anything seen today.

Like a lot of people, I wanted diesel for the torque, pulling power, and ease-of-drivability in mountainous regions of the USA. The claimed ecology protection was just icing on the cake. Now, I'm feeling so very disappointed. I'm sure the benefits of gas mileage, etc. are all still there, but I'm not sure I could enjoy visiting Yosemite, for example, while contributing to the pollution of the very places I consider a National Treasure. Much less, the effects upon my fellow citizens. It's as if every German diesel manufacturer said "Let's get our money even if we poison American citizens while doing so! Screw them, and their grandchildren!"

Any thoughts from those of you far more experienced -- and less emotionally worked-up -- than I am?

Molaker

  • ---
  • Posts: 5764
  • We don't camp. We tour.
    • Pumpkin and Us
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2016, 11:05:02 AM »
Disappointed?...Well, yes.  However, I doubt the little 188 HP diesel in my ERA pumps out more pollution than a big ol' 400 HP diesel engine you see powering class A's or big engines powering heavy duty pickups, not to mention the millions more commercial trucks and countless gas and diesel automobiles running up and down the highways.  The Mercedes V6 is unlikely to destroy the atmosphere all by itself.  So, I try to put the issue in perspective.  However, if Mercedes is found to have used some kind of "trickery" or fraud in certifying their engines then they deserve a good spanking.  The EPA regs keep tightening (rightfully so) and vehicle manufacturers must squeeze in there if they intend to sell in the U.S.  Hopefully, the U.S. market is big enough to drag the rest of the world along, but I wouldn't expect miracles.  Heck, we even have certain politicians wanting to curtail or even discontinue the EPA.  I worry more about that than I do over the manufacturers' struggle to stay within the regs.
Tom & Joyce and Ditto the "don't tell her she's a dog" Westie
U.S. Navy (Ret)
2014 Winnebago ERA 70X 24' class B Sprinter chassis

BalderDash!

  • Posts: 2
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2016, 11:46:27 AM »
I agree about several things. But I guess what goes through my mind is this: If the pollution level proves to be 65 times greater than allowed, isn't that the same as me driving 65 RVs down the highway?

So, maybe it does become more than that one big ol' tractor-trailer rig. On the other hand, what I can locate online seems to state that this system Mercedes uses only does this cheating while the engine is cold, or below 50 degrees. That's "some" light at the end of the tunnel... I guess. I really am frustrated that I might be forced to go with a gas engine, or a smaller and less-capable Ford diesel (5-cyl vs. 6; 2,000-lb towing capacity vs. 5,000) -- just to feel justified in buying anything diesel.

It's funny, though, how every dealer I spoke with, and one manufacturer, tried to tell me the gas engines are all better than diesel, anyway. They claim gas offers greater torque and easier maintenance. And greater towing capacity. I think they confuse horsepower with torque, but I have no idea how they come to such conclusions.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 11:52:32 AM by BalderDash! »

John From Detroit

  • ---
  • Posts: 19623
  • ^My New Home^
    • Diabetics Forum
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2016, 05:25:21 PM »
I read the linked article.. Taken at face value:

Mercedes has been ask to explain how they test the vehicle.. This, in and of itself, does not indicate wrongdoing.  But it may be inspired by the VW mess.

Like a friend who was sued.. I forget the legal term but the basic "Demand" was "Turn over all documents pretaining".. Which he already had,, So all he had to do was swear, in court, that he had complied, and that was that. no cost, NO jail, No fine, and in fact since he could do it by signing the proper document in the proper lawyer's office,  No court.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

robertusa123

  • ---
  • Posts: 1507
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2016, 05:59:58 PM »
I suspect the lawers are going to have a field day sueing every manufacturer of diesel motors from vw to Cummins.  Gas motors will be next.   It's all about money I wouldn't worry about it
1996  26ft. 3 kids 2 dog and the wife too

8Muddypaws

  • ---
  • Posts: 2235
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2016, 06:42:04 PM »
If if turns out that Mercedes get nailed for 'hinky' programming the resale value of your motorhome will certainly plummet.  Just like the VW and Audis did.
Retired computer professional
Musician, songwriter and music director
2006 Bounder 34H, 2008 CR-V Toad

Mfreyder

  • ---
  • Posts: 126
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2016, 07:20:56 PM »
The Promaster chassis is an alternative. It too sports a VW engine but is in every Dodge 3.6L Caravan and T&C as well as the VW version of the minis. My Trend made by WGO has performed well crossing the Rockies and Smokies, passing some diesel pushers on the inclines. 280HP does just fine and to read the Sprinter maintenance sites without half the scheduled maintenance.

Mike
2014 Trend 23B

NoOneSpecial

  • Posts: 4
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2017, 08:40:49 PM »
Just stumbled on this related article.

Not sure if I want to buy that Leisure Travel Unity now, or not.

http://autoweek.com/article/diesel/mercedes-parent-company-daimler-braces-its-own-potential-diesel-crisis-us

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 60367
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2017, 09:01:10 AM »
Why would you change your mind?  Regardless of what the feds decide about the emissions data, the vehicle is the same as when you bought it.  If MB has to pay penalties to the US gov't, it's no skin off your nose. You might even get a compensation of some sort, monetary or a warranty extension or something. VW diesel owners are getting some nice monetary comps.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

captsteve

  • ---
  • Posts: 2350
  • measure with a micrometer, cut with a chainsaw!
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2017, 09:12:30 AM »
If you like your coach, don't sweat it. If there is something to fix, they will fix it and give you a pile of cash to compensate your hurt feelings. I don't say this to sound condescending at all.

I had a brand new VW Golf TDI, I LOVED this thing!!! 60MPG. Then the scandal broke. My feelings were hurt, I was deceived.  Some time passed and VW offered to buy back my car, I had a choice, I could take approx 6k and let them fix it or they would pay it off and give me 11k cash for my hurt feelings.

Long story short, if i loved it as much as I thought, I would still have it but after a bad accident I felt the value to me was in taking the 11k cash.

To sum it up, if they did something wrong it will be made right and you will have the choice in the end. Nothing to get up tight about in the end.
Capt Steve has the Conn, Trina navigator ( Admiral )
2004 American Revolution 40c (aka Fat Girl) **Sold**
2017 Ram 1500 (Future Toad)
Piper Archer II  (Where the RV money goes)

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 60367
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2017, 09:51:31 AM »
Submitting improper CAFE (fuel economy) documentation to the EPA doesn't make the vehicle any worse. You get the same actual mpg in your driving whether there is a special mode for CAFE testing or not. 
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

UTTransplant

  • ---
  • Posts: 908
  • Salt Lake City area
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2017, 10:45:31 AM »
I live in a high pollution area - the Wasatch Front in Utah. People die here from pollution. Emissions really do matter here. People I worked with bought VW and Audi diesels because they believed it was better for the environment, and they felt terribly betrayed and guilty when they found out VW lied. I know people in other areas of the country don't have to worry about that, but we do.

Yes, I know all of life is a trade off and just living in a modern society causes some pollution. However those of us who want to lower our foot print need accurate information to make our personal decisions. VW out and out lied. I hope Mercedes didn't, both for those who bought their vehicles and for the larger environment. The only reason we started looking at diesel pickups was they finally started using DEF and catalysts.
Pam and Kevin plus Minou and Lily (the cats) plus Lexi (the grand-dog)
2014 Outdoors RV Timber Ridge 240RKS
2015 Ram 2500 Diesel
http://toobusyforwork.com

NoOneSpecial

  • Posts: 4
Re: Anybody worried about the looming Mercedes-Benz diesel lawsuit?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2017, 10:38:30 PM »
Found this article just now; definitely don't want anything built on the Sprinter diesel chassis after reading this.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fatal-flaw-mercedes-benz-sprinters-tom-robertson

 

Hosted by Over The Network