Good starter yak?

I used to do a fair bit of paddling.  Bought a used Wilderness Systems boat way back when a decent used boat cost way more than the new ones do now.  Still have that boat hanging on the wall in the garage collecting dust.... 

It looks ballpark similar to the one the OP linked to.  Approx 12ft i think, sit inside with a large cockpit opening.
A longer boat is better tracking for long flat water paddles, but mine was decent all around flat water.  I often wished it was longer though.

There is something to be said for the sit on top styles, depending on climate.  I saw a guy a few weeks ago while we had teh RV at the beach, out paddling in the waves surfing.  It looked like great fun and made me want to get back in.... till I realized he was making it look easy... and my baot wouldn't be as suitable as a sit on top for that kind of thing.

My last comment is this.... spend as much as you can on the paddle.  I bought my boat used, and the guy I bought the rig from was smart.  The paddle cost about as much as the boat did back in the day.... it's a werner.  A good paddle makes a HUGE difference!

My current kayak is 14.5' which is just about perfect for what I use it for, mountain lakes, streams, and exploring marshes.  Has a rudder I can drop and use on windy lakes and a couple of water tight compartments for my backpacking gear when i take off solo. A shorter boat would be too much work and longer would be less maneuverable in the marshes.  Just depends on what you want to use it for.  My wife has a 13' Old Town which is a little wider, has a bigger hatch and is easier to get in and out of. Not as quick though.

Lately I've been thinking about going back to a solo canoe. (Placid Boat Works Rapid Fire). Would still use a kayak paddle with it and it's about a third of the weight of my current kayak. Miss the 13' Mad River Solo canoe I had 25 years ago.    We still use our full size Mad River canoe a lot as we like to take the dog.  It's 16.5 feet but is very maneuverable and good in the wind and choppy water plus we can throw a lot of gear in it.

The Rapid Fire is one sweet boat! I have seen one at a free-style canoe symposium. I am a big fan of solo canoes rather than kayaks. They are always less weight than an equivalent kayak since they don't have a deck. They are very versatile, and they don't take much skill to use with a double blade (kayak-style) paddle. I personally prefer canoeing with a single blade paddle in solo canoes, just for fun. The biggest disadvantage of a solo canoe is they aren't mass produced so they cost more than a kayak. Our current solos are a Wenonah Vagabond, a Mad River Freedom 14, and a Wenonah Aurora.

Am I reading that right?  Placid Boat Works Rapid Fire is 22 to 29 pounds?!?

One of my dreads about going paddling again is the wrenched backs from solo unloading, launching, and loading.  At 30# or less, that is very attractive!

How stable compared to a yak?
I've been in some very tippy canoes in my day.....

William52 said:

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Howdy William52!  I'd suggest some research based on HOW you plan to use it.  I have a sit-in Necky and love it.  However; the "in" part is very different than the "sit-on" type kayaks and they each have their place.  If you have even slightly limited mobility, the "on" types are much easier to use.  If you have no real plans for use, nearly anything that gets you on the water is a very good thing!  Buying used from Craigslist can be a great way to get into the sport inexpensively and figure out what you really want/like.

blw2 said:

Am I reading that right?  Placid Boat Works Rapid Fire is 22 to 29 pounds?!?

One of my dreads about going paddling again is the wrenched backs from solo unloading, launching, and loading.  At 30# or less, that is very attractive!

How stable compared to a yak?
I've been in some very tippy canoes in my day.....

Click to expand...

Yup, 22 to 29 pounds.

Like my Mad river canoes and my kayak, the Rapidfire has secondary stability which means it has a shallow V hull which tends to stop and sit on the side of the V if you tip it.  Very good for maneuvering and great for tracking a straight line when you are straight up. A flatter bottom boat has more initial stability but once it starts to tip there's no stopping it and it is harder to paddle in a straight line.

Placid Boatworks specializes in high quality light weight canoes. They are almost hand crafted, and the price tag shows it. They are a great boat builder though! There are lots of other options for lighter weight canoes, especially if you are comparing to 80 pound aluminums! Kevlar boats are in the 35-40 pound range for a nice solo, 40-50 for tandems. Even my solo Royalex is only 45 pounds. And stability comes with practice. A boat that fills "tippy" at the start won't feel that way after a few days on the water. The flat bottom boats feel good at the start, but they flip in an instant if you get even a little bit off the side. A shallow V is infinitely better, as Old Radios also notes.

I'd consider an inflatable stand up paddleboard! They call them standups, but you can sit, stand, have a picnic on the water, use them as a dock to jump off and swim, and you can slowly work up to standing if you like. They are so much more versatile than a kayak in most situations. We have a couple, they roll up to largish sleeping bag size when not in use.

JFNM said:

Howdy William52!  I'd suggest some research based on HOW you plan to use it.  I have a sit-in Necky and love it.  However; the "in" part is very different than the "sit-on" type kayaks and they each have their place.  If you have even slightly limited mobility, the "on" types are much easier to use.  If you have no real plans for use, nearly anything that gets you on the water is a very good thing!  Buying used from Craigslist can be a great way to get into the sport inexpensively and figure out what you really want/like.

Click to expand...

  Plan is to start with a sit in because of cold water temps in Michigan in summer. And alligators in water in Fla./Tx. in winter. Smaller lakes and rivers mostly for angling and just enjoying nature. Then maybe a sit on top when water temps are warmer. Needs to be light weight and plan on CRV/ Car topping so we can take them anywhere we go. Retirement is getting closer and we are trying to get squared away.

Back to a used kayak question... what is a fair price for a good used one?  I know there are a lot of aspects to that, just like RV's.    Found another one in my local Craigslist.  It's a 2008 Current Designs (make) Breeze (model), 13 feet, some cosmetic blemishes but appears solid overall.  Seller says MSRP is $999 and she bought new for $850.  Asking price now is $250.  No paddle or accessories included, but she has some available for separate sale.  Just trying to get an idea of what ballpark I should be looking at.

25% of list price seems a deal. It going to get a little banged up.

scottydl said:

Back to a used kayak question... what is a fair price for a good used one?  I know there are a lot of aspects to that, just like RV's.    Found another one in my local Craigslist.  It's a 2008 Current Designs (make) Breeze (model), 13 feet, some cosmetic blemishes but appears solid overall.

Click to expand...

Be sure to try it on and confirm that it fits - it appears to be sized for smaller folks.  I'm old school on used prices - a good deal is a price that satisfies both the buyer and the seller.  I bought my Necky Manitou used for $300 (with paddle and skirt) and it has provided many hours of really great times on the water.  In my mind, that is a good deal.  If you don't enjoy it once you've given it a try, you can probably resell for that same price.

We decided to pick up a couple of kayaks last summer - and ended up purchasing a couple of Old Towne Vapor 10 boats.  They are 10' boats with relatively large cockpit openings (19.5" x 48").  While I would have liked a slightly longer boat - the large cockpit openings along with concerns about dealing with another 2 feet of boat when transporting and storing the boats sold me on these.  Since purchasing them - we used them regularly thru the summer and into the early fall - on "still water" (small lakes) as well as on a couple of easy rivers popular with kayakers in our area. 

We're now preparing to head down to Florida to flee the Michigan winter and are planning to take the kayaks with us.  This trip brings a number of "firsts" for us with regards to the kayaks.  It will be the first time we've transported the kayaks in freezing temps (hopefully we won't damage the boats while loading and securing the plastic boats due to the frigid temperatures).  This will also be the first time we've done any extended traveling with the kayak - and dealing with having to store and/or secure the boats while on the road and at campsites as we travel (I've picked up a couple of "bike lock" cables which I plan to use to secure the boats by passing the cables thru the carrying cleat on the bow of the kayaks and then through the "riser" of the "dual receiver hitch" on the coach.  Finally, I'm hoping that my DW doesn't freak if/when we happen to spot an alligator or two paddling around on Florida waterways! 

We'll see have to see how this all shakes out! 

^^ Make sure you get some photos to share! 

spacenorman said:

... This will also be the first time we've done any extended traveling with the kayak - and dealing with having to store and/or secure the boats while on the road and at campsites as we travel (I've picked up a couple of "bike lock" cables which I plan to use to secure the boats by passing the cables thru the carrying cleat on the bow of the kayaks and then through the "riser" of the "dual receiver hitch" on the coach. ... 

Click to expand...

I use a 25 foot length of vinyl covered steel cable, the type used for dog runs. It's long enough to secure the kayaks to vehicles, trees or whatever might be available.

JackL said:

Can I brag ?

Click to expand...

Please do. You are an inspiration to all of us. Congratulations.

HappyWanderer said:

I use a 25 foot length of vinyl covered steel cable, the type used for dog runs. It's long enough to secure the kayaks to vehicles, trees or whatever might be available.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip!  I think I'll look into that!  I'm concerned that the bike lock cables I was planning to use (and own already) - are going to prove to be a pain to work with being only 6 feet each.  A longer cable would nice.  I think I'll swing past Lowes tomorrow and see what I can whip up! 

spacenorman said:

Thanks for the tip!  I think I'll look into that!  I'm concerned that the bike lock cables I was planning to use (and own already) - are going to prove to be a pain to work with being only 6 feet each.

Click to expand...

The bike lock cables can often be daisy-chained end to end if the lock mechanisms are the same on each of them... but they may not be designed for heavy duty use.  A couple of kayaks with wind resistance at highway speeds could create some pretty major force.  I'd be more concerned with the lock mechanisms bending/failing (many of which are pretty flimsy on bike locks) over a cable snapping.

In your situation, I'd imagine that the kayaks are already secured down and the cables are just a safety device... but just something to consider.

scottydl said:

In your situation, I'd imagine that the kayaks are already secured down and the cables are just a safety device... but just something to consider.

Click to expand...

Yes, there's a big difference between secure (locked up) and secure (won't blow away). How many times have you seen a couple of kayaks on J-hooks clamped to a roof rack with nothing to secure them?  A handful of sheet metal screws into the roof is the only thing keeping the whole thing from becoming airborne.

I saw something posted online not long ago where a lady was complaining that her factory roof rack was ripped apart by her kayaks being up there without being tied down.