EPDM Coatings
rvupgradestore.com Composet Products PO Box Zone
Over The Network Custom Yacht Interiors

Author Topic: Running out of power  (Read 6683 times)

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Running out of power
« on: May 07, 2016, 09:54:09 AM »
So this winter I knew I would be boondicking again in the spring so I did some upgrades before heading out. I upgraded my 94 southwind with all led lighting and put a boon dockers 75amp converter to power up my 2 group 24 deep cycle batteries. I left for the mountains Sunday and by Thursday I was out of power to the point I couldn't start the genset. I used the water pump for a total of 10 mins and lighting for about 8 mins that week. The only other thing I know that uses power is the COx detector and  the control system on the  propane refrigerator. So according to the manual on the converter I should be able to run the converter with its. Quick charge system for about 3 hours for about 90% charge so I I fired up the genset for 3 hours. During that time I went thru and removed the fuses for things on the rv that are not used any more. The old none working Co detector and the power antenna system. I work up this morning with the batteries just about dead again..... any suggestions?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 09:57:17 AM by v33sonata »

John From Detroit

  • ---
  • Posts: 19633
  • ^My New Home^
    • Diabetics Forum
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2016, 10:25:34 AM »
First dump thnose G-24 MARINE batteries and try a pair of GC-2 Golf Car batteries

You now have 150 amp hnours of which you can safely use about 50
You will then have 220 +/- 10 amp hours of which you can safely use about 110.. That's over twice the usable power and no other change needed.

With the larger batteries you can go to a 70 amp give or take a bit converter... Or just add a bit of generator run time.

Next. MARNIE batteries, even if they say "Deep Cycle" or RV on them, are really starting boxes, they do not like to be run down too far and will go bad very quickly if run down too far.

My Interestate Work-a-holic U-2200s (A GC-2 type battery) took several deep, and I meen DEEP discharges and recovered.. I've not been so lucky with starting/Marine batteries.

You do have to water them (DISTILLED ONLY) from time to time though.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2016, 10:35:15 AM »
You think it's theses battery's? They are only a year old. Sent golf cart batteries only 6v?

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2016, 10:39:51 AM »
And would this really help. I feel like I am running out ofnpower due to a problem........? Shouldn't theses battery's last more the. A night?

Nomadb1

  • ---
  • Posts: 138
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2016, 10:43:32 AM »
There was a post on here not too long ago from a guy with a similar issue but his was with the engine battery, turns out he had a short to the frame - wire had some insulation rubbed off. You might try checking for that?
2004 Yukon XL The "Beast"
2004 Thor Tahoe 19UD 4300# Escape pod
3 Kids
2 Scrappy Pointers,
1 Beloved Bride

Abendage

  • ---
  • Posts: 64
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2016, 10:47:05 AM »
Are you running a furnace?  That could easily drain those batteries quickly.

Golf car batteries are 6v, you wire them in series to get one big 12v battery.
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2006 Fleetwood Pioneer 180CK, GC2's, 200 Watts Solar

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2016, 11:05:52 AM »
Nope all I ran is what I posted I even logged everything

Happy Prospector

  • ---
  • Posts: 357
  • RV'ing The Great American Southwest aka-Quartzsite
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2016, 11:25:16 AM »
When was the last time you serviced these batteries? Group 24 batteries are about the smallest batteries you can buy. I would go with two 6 volt golf cart batteries in series for 12 volt for a start. Think about a battery monitoring system so you can see how much you are draining your batteries. You would be surprised how many amps are being used by various devises.




The information is out there, all you have to do is let it in.
Kevin, Lifetime NRA Member
Retired, Fulltime RV'er
1999.5 F350 4X4 CC Diesel Flatbed
2007 Alpenlite Defender Toyhauler
920 Watt of Solar
2007 Yamaha Grizzly 700
Bob, The Yorkie Terrier, Helping me
prospect for gold till the money runs out

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2016, 11:44:09 AM »
Right before I went out I checked them out even took them in to get tested. All looked good.

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2016, 11:47:06 AM »
I don't feel it's the batteries. I might be wrong but out of power in 1 night?

Kevin Means

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 3738
    • Tactical Flying
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2016, 12:33:05 PM »
I also think it's your batteries. Two healthy, fully charged Group 24 batteries should last a lot longer than one day powering only the things you mentioned. Since they're running down overnight they're either not getting fully charged to begin with, one or both are not healthy or there's something turned on that you're unaware of.

I'm with John on this one. Those Group 24 batteries are near the bottom of the pack when it comes to AH capacity and lifespan. It doesn't take many discharge cycles for them to start showing signs of not holding a charge. And yes, GC batteries are usually 6 volt batteries - you just wire them in series vs. parallel like yours are wired now. Before you buy them however (or any other larger capacity battery) make sure they'll fit in your battery compartment. They're physically larger.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 970 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 60418
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2016, 12:34:54 PM »
While GC2 golf cart batteries would provide more amp-hours and give at least 2x as many years of use, I don't see that as the solution to the immediate problem. If he indeed used 10 minutes of water pump and 8 minutes of lighting (really?), then something is seriously wrong with his 12v system, or those batteries are shot.   How old are they? When was the last time the water in the cells was checked? Have they ever been severely discharged, or perhaps left for weeks in a very low state of charge? Any of those can rob the battery of its ability to hold a useful charge. Distilled water can be added and it will probably recover, but the other problems are often fatal.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

Rene T

  • ---
  • Posts: 9849
  • Great being on the right side of the grass
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2016, 12:38:51 PM »
He/she said they are a year old. I would disconnect one of the battery cables and with a digital voltmeter, check the output of the converter while it's charging.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2016, 01:24:50 PM »
Howdy v33sonata, knowledge is power.  It sounds like it is time to instrument your coach so you know what is happening.  Specifically, a quality battery monitor like the Trimetric RV-2030.  These are not terribly expensive nor difficult to install.  Once installed, you will know exactly how much power is flowing into or out of your battery bank.  Given the appropriate configuration information, it will also be able to report what the state of charge is as well.

Here is a very quick into:  http://jdfinley.com/trimetric-battery-monitor/
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

robertusa123

  • ---
  • Posts: 1507
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2016, 02:38:02 PM »
The converter could be causing a drain..... A DC amp meter would show if you have current draw.   A inverter  turned on will draw power even if your not useing it. 
1996  26ft. 3 kids 2 dog and the wife too

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1396
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2016, 03:00:23 PM »
Would you post the make and model of of converter you installed, and have you verified that it is working?
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2016, 06:12:37 PM »
Okay so I found the climate controlled switch in the fridge was on. I went out and got a multi meter. With the climate controlled on I am drawing 0.55amps when it's off and nothing else on but for the COx detector and the propane fridge controller I was at 0.10amps. So that could have been a problem. I fired up the genset and tested the converter and it's running at 14.7v according to the manual it's in boost mode. So I went to the battery's. One battery is at 12.7v and the other 12.6v. Is that normal. I did notice when having the converter charging them one of the battery's is at 14.2v but the other is the same. What are your thoughts?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 06:42:47 PM by v33sonata »

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2016, 06:19:42 PM »
Boondocker powermax pmb4 75amp

Nomadb1

  • ---
  • Posts: 138
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2016, 06:28:10 PM »
Sounds to me that one of your batteries has/is about to say adios. Buy a set though -they need to be matched to work the best. Bite the bullet - get the GC batteries. Although if they're only a year old it might be a warranty issue. Make em give you two new ones.  Like a chain - they're only as strong as the weakest one.
2004 Yukon XL The "Beast"
2004 Thor Tahoe 19UD 4300# Escape pod
3 Kids
2 Scrappy Pointers,
1 Beloved Bride

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2016, 06:40:53 PM »
Sorry I fixed theses numbers. I have a couple backwards....... please explain

John From Detroit

  • ---
  • Posts: 19633
  • ^My New Home^
    • Diabetics Forum
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2016, 07:45:41 PM »
Do I think it is the batteries.. As I said, with Group 24 MARINE/deep cycle you have at most 150 amp hours and can only use about 50.. They do not like to be run down too far, and may have over winter.

With Golf Car batteries you have roughly 220 amp hours and 110 usable, that's twice the usable capacity... So yes, I do think a battery upgrade is in order


As someone said.. Your current batteries are like this

Battery
Battery

With golf car batteries it is Battery---Battery--12 volts.

Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Abendage

  • ---
  • Posts: 64
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2016, 11:10:35 PM »
I did notice when having the converter charging them one of the battery's is at 14.2v but the other is the same. What are your thoughts?

This to me sounds like you don't have your batteries wired in parallel and they are isolated. The battery at 12.6 isn't hooked up, thus is full and you are operating on one battery which with the climate control on, could easily go dead overnight and is at 14.2 because your converter is charging it, but not the 12.6'volt battery. Could be a bad parallel cable, or just hooked up incorrectly. Now that you have a volt meter, check your voltage in the morning, if the battery that was at 14.2 with the gen running is low and the other one is at 12.6, that's your problem.
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2006 Fleetwood Pioneer 180CK, GC2's, 200 Watts Solar

Kevin Means

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 3738
    • Tactical Flying
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2016, 01:29:40 AM »
I agree with Abendage. If your charger is outputting 14.2 volts, both batteries should be indicating that voltage. If only one of them is, it tells me that the other one isn't hooked up properly, and you may be running off only one battery. By the way, a fully charged battery will indicate 12.6 to 12.7 volts 30 minutes (or so) after disconnecting from a charger. Somehow, both your batteries got charged at some point.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 970 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

Len and Jo

  • ---
  • Posts: 1175
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2016, 08:11:24 AM »
If batteries are wired in parallel the voltage should be the same, they should be acting as one larger battery.  I do have cart batteries...now .... but did use marine deep cycle for years.   If you want to dry camp a lot you really do need to know what uses battery power.  To understand the amp draw of each of you electrical components you will need a clamp amp meter and check everything.

A new group 24 marine battery should have about 80Ah in it.  So two batteries IF CONNECTED IN PARALLEL should have 160 and 50% of that should be usable, specially at a low draw down rate (<5Ah).  Remember that 80Ah over a week of 24 hour days only allows you to use an average of 0.5 amps per hour.  If your batteries ARE IN PARALLEL (doesn't sound like they are if you are reading two different voltages on them....that is not possible if they are wired in parallel with good wiring) and being drained in two days you must be drawing >1.5 amps per hour.  A clamp amp meter should help you find what is taking all that current.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 06:55:24 AM by Len and Jo »
Len & Jo
The Green Tardis
We 'B' RVing   Berkley, Michigan
Van Development:   https://youtu.be/5Xqk_G6k95M
12 Years of Travels:  https://youtu.be/UMIf17CzdZo

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2016, 09:54:12 AM »
I doubt checked the wiring. I am wired parallel. Also I have been checking the battery's every few hours and they seem to be almost the same voltage every time I check them. Last time I posted I ran the gen for 3.5 hrs and had a voltage on each battery of about 12.5v on each battery. Yesterday I did not run the gen at all but ran the rv into town. This morning one battery is at 11.6v AMD the other is at 11.4v I did not use the water pump at all and used one led light for 5 mins. Is this a normal rate of discharge? I understand that golf battery's will give me more time but I assume they take longer to charge as well I'm trying to avoid running the genset so much. Thank again for everyone's help

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2016, 10:07:33 AM »
Hi v33sonata, using voltage to determine state of charge is unreliable.  The only way to make it semi-usable is to check open circuit (not connected to anything) battery voltage after the battery has been resting open circuit for many hours (at least 4-6 hours, probably 24 hours).

Looking at your numbers and assuming you are using the above approach, a 12 volt battery that is "fully charged" and then falls below about 12.5 volts during the rest period is not in great health.
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

Abendage

  • ---
  • Posts: 64
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2016, 10:22:49 AM »
No, that does not seem like a normal discharge rate. You either have something drawing a lot of power or the batteries are shot.
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2006 Fleetwood Pioneer 180CK, GC2's, 200 Watts Solar

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2016, 10:26:51 AM »
Okay. I'm going to let them charge up then will disconnect them and see where they are at later today. I will also see if I can find anything other draw on them that I might have missed. I need to be very careful before dumping $400 on new batteries as I just got laid off.

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2016, 10:31:10 AM »
If in an area where Costco/Sams carries golf cart batteries, their 6 volt units are reportedly ok and only about $70/each (or so, I don't know exactly).  Two 6 volt batteries in series (for one 12 volt battery bank) will likely yield more total capacity that two 12 volt batteries in parallel (making several assumptions).
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

Abendage

  • ---
  • Posts: 64
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2016, 11:05:58 AM »
Just looked yesterday at Costco, $83 a piece here in Colorado. Batteries Plus is everywhere and if you buy online and pick up in store they are $90 a piece.
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2006 Fleetwood Pioneer 180CK, GC2's, 200 Watts Solar

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2016, 12:32:21 PM »
Sam's has 2 gc-2 battery's. One for $85 and it's 107 rc mins @ 75 amps. And one for $112 which is 112. Can someone put this into prospective for me plz. Trying to decided if spending $60 more is worth it. Also what kind of charge times will I be looking at with theses?

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2016, 01:12:50 PM »
I also just disconnected the DC battery's a d see that the chassis battery is still powering the fridge and stuff. Is this going to cause a problem for converting to golf battery's?

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2016, 01:28:33 PM »
That certainly does not sound correct, possibly this is related to your problem (something on the chassis side drawing the batteries down - particularly something like a big cross-feed relay???  I dunno, guessing....).

Regardless, if you are installing multiple 6 volt batteries wired such that they are one 12 volt bank, no, it will not be an issue.  In your case, I believe you are replacing two 12 volt batteries (wired in parallel as one 12 volt battery bank) with two 6 volt batteries (wired in series as one 12 volt battery bank).  Before connecting them together in your rig, be sure you understand the difference (do NOT connect the 6 volt batteries the same way the 12 volt batteries were connected).
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

Lou Schneider

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 7312
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2016, 01:50:28 PM »
Let me bring up another issue.  To get a fast charge into the batteries, the same wiring rules apply to the charger as apply to installing an inverter.

Put the converter as close to the batteries you can without them being in the same compartment, and use short, fat cables to connect them.  The existing wires will carry the voltage back to the 12 volt distribution panel.

If you installed the converter in the same place as the old one, you probably have a fairly long run of not very thick wire connecting the converter to the batteries.   This means when the batteries are capable of accepting lots of charging current, the voltage lost along the wire reduces the charging current until a happy medium is reached between the voltage seen at the battery and the current flowing through the wire.   It only takes a change of a couple of tenths of a volt at the battery terminals to make the difference between bulk charging at 40-50 amps or charging at half that amount.

A current meter installed at the converter's output will help you see what's going on.  I used an automobile 60-0-60 ammeter in the past, now you can get a 100 amp DC digital meter with an external shunt for $10 plus shipping on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LCD-DC-100A-Digital-display-LED-Panel-Ammeter-amp-Ampere-Meter-100A-75mV-shunt-/290940256866?hash=item43bd640262:g:MFsAAMXQTZhR0fiH

Put the external shunt in line with the converter and you'll have an accurate measurement of how much current is actually getting to your batteries.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:43:47 PM by Lou Schneider »

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2016, 02:41:07 PM »
Sam's has 2 gc-2 battery's. One for $85 and it's 107 rc mins @ 75 amps. And one for $112 which is 112. Can someone put this into prospective for me plz. Trying to decided if spending $60 more is worth it. Also what kind of charge times will I be looking at with theses?

The value that this industry typically uses is the 20 amp hour rate.  I would bet that the $85 6 volt battery is a a GC-2 in the 200-220 amp-hour range (at the 20 amp hour rate).  This is a good place to start. 

Looking at Sam's website, I suspect you are looking 230 amp hour battery (at the 20 amp hour rate) for $112.  I suspect that is a different group size (different physical size) but am not sure.  I would not spend the extra money for it without knowing more.

Charge time is a pretty complex subject which varies based on your charger (converter), battery state, temperature, etc...  I'm not smart enough to even guess at an answer.
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2016, 04:45:21 PM »
My mistake.... everything shut off. Must have been power left in the lines? However the COx detector is still on with the chassis battery

SargeW

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 6300
  • Life is better on the road!
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2016, 05:00:44 PM »
If you haven't yet, pick up a hydrometer and test each cell in both batteries after they have been off the charger for a few hours. One bad cell in a battery will go dead quick, and draw the other good battery down with it. The bad news is you would still have to replace both batteries at the same time. 

X2 on the 6V GC batteries. You won't be sorry.
Marty--
2017 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40SP
Cummins ISL 450 HP/Powerglide chassis
Visit our new travel blog! http://www.mytripjournal.com/rvnchickTNG
Support your local Police Officer, Fire Fighter and Military!

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2016, 05:09:24 PM »
I also just realized. Does that mean I would need 4 golf cart battery's to equal what I have now? Of that's the case I don't have the room.

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2016, 05:14:59 PM »
Two 6 volt batteries of 220 amp-hours each connected in series equals one 12 volt battery bank of 220 amp-hours (about 110 amp hours usable).  Given the numbers previously given in this thread for the two 12 volt batteries that we think you have, you will increase your total capacity by some 60 amp-hours (approximately).
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2016, 05:31:49 PM »
How do I know the app hours on the batteries I have not and the ones I buy? The ones I have now say reserve capacity 140 and mca 690

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2016, 05:36:54 PM »
If the 20 hour amp-hour rate is not listed on the battery itself, look it up on the Internet and review the specs.  If it is a starting battery, you may never find a 20 hour rating.
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

robertusa123

  • ---
  • Posts: 1507
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2016, 08:55:43 PM »
Something up.  My camper last longer on one battey then yours does on 2 .    what you really need is a DC amp meater.  I'm positive you have something drawing down your batterys
1996  26ft. 3 kids 2 dog and the wife too

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2016, 09:34:48 PM »
I have one and I am drawing 0.33 amps. Only from the refrigerator cause when I shut it off it shows zero draw

Abendage

  • ---
  • Posts: 64
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2016, 09:51:22 PM »
If that is indeed all you are drawing your batteries have to be shot. I'd charge them completely, unhook them, check the voltage, then let them sit for a few hours, then check the voltage again.  I'm betting one of them has a dead cell and will read around 9 volts. 

As far as the 2 different batteries at Sams. The $85 one is 208 amp hours, when wiring in series, your amp hours is equal to the ah rating of one battery, but your voltage doubles. So two of these wired in series would give you 208 ah at 12 Volts. The $112 one has 232 ah. $60 to me doesn't seem worth it for 12 usable (24 total) extra ah's. Your current 12 volt batteries should have roughly 80ah a piece in good shape.  When wiring in parrelell it's the opposite, your ah rating doubles, but your voltage stays the same. So your current batteries in good condition would have 160 amp hours.  Upgrading to the golf cart batteries would get you an extra 48 amp hours.

2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2006 Fleetwood Pioneer 180CK, GC2's, 200 Watts Solar

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2016, 10:48:04 PM »
I pulled the battery's today after a short charge bringing to about 12.5v a few hours later I checked them and they were at 12.3v I put them back in the rv and with in 2 hours down to 11.9v this was during the time I we watching the draw which was 0.33a

Abendage

  • ---
  • Posts: 64
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2016, 10:52:22 PM »
Both batteries were the same? 

How do you have your meter hooked up?  Is every single connection going through the meter and the only thing connected to the battery post is the meter?

Can you post a pic of your batts and how everything is wired?
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2006 Fleetwood Pioneer 180CK, GC2's, 200 Watts Solar

kdbgoat

  • ---
  • Posts: 3967
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2016, 06:58:47 AM »
An easy way to to find out if it's your batteries or not-take them to an auto parts store, have them charge them and then do a load test. That would be a lot simpler than than fiddle-farting around guessing. If your batteries have a CCA listing, they are marine or dual purpose batteries. They are not the best thing to use on an RV to start with. If you have to buy new batteries, get true deep-cycle batteries. They will give you more amp hours and can be discharged deeper than the dual purpose marine type.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


2016 Leprechaun 319DS

John From Detroit

  • ---
  • Posts: 19633
  • ^My New Home^
    • Diabetics Forum
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2016, 07:30:15 AM »
Batteries as they age loose capacity due to sulfation and other modes of failure.

When your BIG (Say group 31) starts acting like a small (Say group 24) time to replace.

NOTE: if you take a common MARINE/deep cycle (the most common 12 volt SINGLE battery in an RV) and take 'em down to say 50% state of charge or lower.. They age rapidly (l.oose capacity)

A true DEEP CYCLE liek a GC-2,, wich you need 2 of since they are six volt.. Also ages faster if run down too far,,,, BUT, 50% is not too far, and though say 25% SOC is damaging.. Not nearly as bad as the Marine types.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 60418
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2016, 07:57:59 AM »
If you are going to get new batteries, please read my Library article on RV Battery Choices. It's not long or exceedingly technical and will help you understand the trade-offs of battery type, size, and cost.

http://www.rvforum.net/miscfiles/Choosing_right_battery.pdf

Yes, it is entirely possible for a one year old marine type battery to be worn (damaged) to the point where capacity drops substantially. Detroit John gave one good reason.

A charge to 12.5v is not yet a full charge. It has to reach 12.6 and stabilize there. 12.6 with the charger still active is nowhere near adequate - it should easily reach 13.6 with the charger running.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

530ktm

  • ---
  • Posts: 196
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2016, 12:53:39 PM »
I pulled the battery's today after a short charge bringing to about 12.5v a few hours later I checked them and they were at 12.3v I put them back in the rv and with in 2 hours down to 11.9v this was during the time I we watching the draw which was 0.33a
As mentioned, a short charging bringing them to 12.5 volts in no way means the battery is fully charged. You should be putting 14.6 volts into a battery for a while to get it fully charged. A battery needs to sit idle for some time to get a proper reading from it also, not shortly after charging it. If you never fully charge your battery it will die a quick death and leave you without power, like what it is doing.
2014 Itasca Sunova 33C from SoCal pulling Jeep Wrangler

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2016, 02:19:06 PM »
New golfcart battery's are in. Wish me luck!! Combined voltage is 12.47 is this acceptable?

Abendage

  • ---
  • Posts: 64
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2016, 02:30:40 PM »
That just means they are not fully charged. They are at about 80%. Try to not let the voltage drop below 12.0v with no load on them.
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2006 Fleetwood Pioneer 180CK, GC2's, 200 Watts Solar

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2016, 02:40:30 PM »
Quote
Try to not let the voltage drop below 12.0v with no load on them.

“Do. Or do not. There is no try.” - Yoda, Jedi Master

Suggest you get a quality battery bank monitor when able so you can treat your investment to a long and productive life.
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2016, 02:48:57 PM »
Not going so well. Went to start the gen and the battery's tanked to 2v
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 02:52:03 PM by v33sonata »

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1396
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2016, 02:54:45 PM »
Did they return to something above 12 volts once you stopped trying to start the generator?
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2016, 02:58:13 PM »
Nope. They are sitting at 2v

Len and Jo

  • ---
  • Posts: 1175
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2016, 02:59:13 PM »
I really would recommend that you get a clamp meter and trace down what is draining your house batteries.  I would also recommend that you do this before investing in a second set of new batteries.  Here is an example one for less then the cost of one new battery:  http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-CL110KIT-Electrical-Maintenance/dp/B017SXAYKM?ie=UTF8&keywords=clamp%20meter&qid=1462910209&ref_=sr_1_12&sr=8-12
Len & Jo
The Green Tardis
We 'B' RVing   Berkley, Michigan
Van Development:   https://youtu.be/5Xqk_G6k95M
12 Years of Travels:  https://youtu.be/UMIf17CzdZo

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1396
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2016, 03:07:49 PM »
Nope. They are sitting at 2v

Are you measuring the same way you did when you got 12.47?  There is no way, to my knowledge, that you could run the new batteries that dead, without having a dead short somewhere, and if that were the case, I would expect to see sparks, smoke or fire, or all three when you tried to start the generator.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2016, 03:17:13 PM »
I can't keep buying stuff. So when I disconnect the positive I get 12v back. However I'm. Showing no amp draw

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2016, 03:17:48 PM »
I also have a clamp meter

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2016, 03:25:22 PM »
Boy, a name would sure make me feel like I was attempting to help a person...

What do you mean "combined voltage"??  Did you connect the two new batteries in series and measure the voltage or something else?

Could you post a photo of what you have and the connections?
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1396
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2016, 03:32:49 PM »
I can't keep buying stuff. So when I disconnect the positive I get 12v back. However I'm. Showing no amp draw

So when you have the batteries hooked up, and you are measuring voltage of the batteries at the battery posts, you were getting 2 volts, but when you unhook the positive cable from the batteries, and measure at the battery posts, you then get 12 plus volts?
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2016, 03:33:24 PM »
Sorry my name is Anthony. I'm not sure how to post pictures from my phone. Coach Neg is hooked up to neg on battery then the positive to the neg On next battery then positive to pos. on coach

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2016, 03:33:59 PM »
Yes Paul & ann

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2016, 03:35:04 PM »
Prior to trying to start the genset everything g was at 12v all wired up

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2016, 03:43:13 PM »
Nice to meet you Anthony!

It sounds like you have this, which is correct.
(https://www.batterystuff.com/images/knowledge-base/Series.jpg)

You say you had 12 volts. Is that exactly 12 volts?? Because, that is basically the voltage of a dead (state of charge) battery bank. The voltage should be up around 12.6 volts with these new batteries (id fully charged).  Have you charged them?
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1396
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2016, 03:43:27 PM »
Prior to trying to start the genset everything g was at 12v all wired up

Well, I am stumped.  I cant imagine any circumstances under which these things could happen.  Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable will come along and be able to help you.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1396
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2016, 03:56:34 PM »
What voltage do you get when you measure the voltage of each individual battery on its posts?
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2016, 03:56:51 PM »
No I had 12.4 and someone said they were not fully charged so I went to charge them and all hell broke lose

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1396
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2016, 04:02:44 PM »
No I had 12.4 and someone said they were not fully charged so I went to charge them and all hell broke lose
Other than the generator not starting what else happened?
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

Abendage

  • ---
  • Posts: 64
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2016, 04:03:08 PM »
You may find this chart handy.

I'd start tracing the wires back to the generator and see if there is a short. I'm surprised your rig isn't on fire though with a voltage drop that large.
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2006 Fleetwood Pioneer 180CK, GC2's, 200 Watts Solar

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2016, 04:09:14 PM »
Nothing I have no 12v power in the rv from the new battery's. I'm following then wiring but it goes thru the dust box thru a bunch of boxes and silver relay looking things. None of which I get

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2016, 04:19:38 PM »
When I hook back up the old 24dc I have power again ND the voltage on. This battery is at 12v +

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2016, 04:50:50 PM »
It was the wire between the two battery's. The old one was 2 gauge and really old. I used a much smaller wire and jumped and all it working well even the genset started....... what gauge wire should I be using to jump theses

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2016, 04:54:53 PM »
Guys thanks for all your help. I feel I have been especially snippy lately due to a very bad week. Hopefully this issue is behind me. Thanks again!

Abendage

  • ---
  • Posts: 64
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2016, 04:58:59 PM »
I use the 4 gauge starter cables sold at every auto parts store or hardware store. If you plan on having big loads on the system though, you may want to go bigger.

That bad wire may be why it seemed your old setup was only working on one battery.
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2006 Fleetwood Pioneer 180CK, GC2's, 200 Watts Solar

JDOnTheGo

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • JdFinley.com
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2016, 05:21:09 PM »
No worries Anthony, these scenarios stress us all to some point - very glad you got it sorted.

The heaviest load your house batteries are likely to see is your generator starter or engine starter (assuming you have a cross-feed switch, etc.). Since the cable is very short, I'd think a #2 or #4 would be fine - just guessing without any real facts though.
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

John From Detroit

  • ---
  • Posts: 19633
  • ^My New Home^
    • Diabetics Forum
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #77 on: May 10, 2016, 06:06:02 PM »
Where are you measureing the voltage at.. If you are measuring AT THE BATTERY for all voltage measurements then the dump to 2 volts under load indicates either some serious load or some serious internal resistance (Or a bad jumper wire)

If you are measureing remotely... Then the 2 volts most liklely is indicateive of a connection issue or bad wire.

I had a bad wire once. No load it measured 11.x volts (Batteries were 13.6, floating)...

Just the volt mtere 20,000 ohms per volt, 20 volt range (400,000 ohms) was enough to drop it about 2 volts..  That was a bad wire

Test lamp took it to zip... (more like 2 ohms)  Traced it, found the bad spot. excized it, and 13.6 under load happened just like that (l.oad is 3 amps plus on that 10ga line).
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2016, 08:53:52 AM »
So last night before I went to bed I was at 12.6v this morning I'm at 12.3v

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2016, 08:55:42 AM »
I am .measuring at the battery. Also last night I heard the refrigerator kicking on and off last night. As it's using propane what is it doing?

MMW

  • ---
  • Posts: 134
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2016, 09:10:16 AM »
I'm starting to suspect the 2V reading was a meter error of some sort...bad connection, dodgy lead, or something of the like. 

(or-- and we've all been there, one of them I D ten T errors...)

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2016, 09:28:53 AM »
Yea the 2v we a bad jumper wire between the golf battery's

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 60418
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2016, 11:34:34 AM »
Quote
Also last night I heard the refrigerator kicking on and off last night. As it's using propane what is it doing?

Same as it does on 120vac. The only difference in operation is the heat source. Just what is it you are hearing? An absorption fridge is silent unless you have fans either inside or out back on the cooling unit. Then you may hear the fans cycle on/off.

If you hear gurgling when the heat comes on and the cooling unit goes to work, start saving up for a new cooling unit.  :'(
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

530ktm

  • ---
  • Posts: 196
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2016, 01:21:51 PM »
Same as it does on 120vac. The only difference in operation is the heat source. Just what is it you are hearing? An absorption fridge is silent unless you have fans either inside or out back on the cooling unit. Then you may hear the fans cycle on/off.
Not always true, you can hear the flame come on and off when it cycles also, mine is actually quite noticeable. 
2014 Itasca Sunova 33C from SoCal pulling Jeep Wrangler

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2016, 05:04:46 PM »
It's just a click. Almost like relay or something. Only reason I even heard it was I was sitting outside by the fridge. Also I checked the voltage now AMD it's at 12.47 which is up from this morning. Does the cold weather have anything to do with it?

Abendage

  • ---
  • Posts: 64
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2016, 10:52:09 PM »
Mine clicks when I turn it on, I'd imagine it does when it cycles as well but I've never heard it. That's not saying much though. I don't hang around the fridge too often.

As far as your voltage goes, if when you woke up and used the bathroom/water pump the batteries would show a voltage drop and creep up after it rested for awhile so that could be normal that your voltage was higher later in the day.  To get a true reading of a battery's voltage it should be at rest for a few hours. If you are using it, it will always show a lower voltage than it would if it was resting.

If your power needs are truly as low as you say, once you are able, a 100 watt Renogy solar kit on Amazon for $180 would be well worth your while. You would likely not need to run your generator ever.

I have 200 watts of solar with the same batteries you just put in and it has never been plugged in since I put the solar on. I camp exclusively at high elevations in Colorado, don't need A/C and I have an oven, so I just chose not to use the microwave, plus I like stove top popcorn better.  The 200 watts is more than enough to charge the batteries to full by early afternoon after running the furnace, led lights and stereo all night.  Usually it is charged up by noon. I use a Victron battery monitor so I know my exact state of charge without relying on voltage measurements.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 10:59:00 PM by Abendage »
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2006 Fleetwood Pioneer 180CK, GC2's, 200 Watts Solar

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 60418
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2016, 08:23:24 AM »
A click is normal. Two things occur when the flame cycles on: (1) a solenoid opens the gas valve, and (2) a spark is generate3 at the igniter. Both involve a "click", but usually the igniter is what you hear. After that, there should be no sound, since the LP flame is too small to make any noticeable air-sucking noises.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

v33sonata

  • ---
  • Posts: 73
Re: Running out of power
« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2016, 08:40:21 PM »
Good idea on the solar I might look into that. Well today still at 12.48v well see how things progress...... thanks again for the help guys!

 

Hosted by Over The Network