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Author Topic: Running out of power  (Read 7710 times)

v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2016, 12:32:21 PM »
Sam's has 2 gc-2 battery's. One for $85 and it's 107 rc mins @ 75 amps. And one for $112 which is 112. Can someone put this into prospective for me plz. Trying to decided if spending $60 more is worth it. Also what kind of charge times will I be looking at with theses?

v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2016, 01:12:50 PM »
I also just disconnected the DC battery's a d see that the chassis battery is still powering the fridge and stuff. Is this going to cause a problem for converting to golf battery's?

JDOnTheGo

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2016, 01:28:33 PM »
That certainly does not sound correct, possibly this is related to your problem (something on the chassis side drawing the batteries down - particularly something like a big cross-feed relay???  I dunno, guessing....).

Regardless, if you are installing multiple 6 volt batteries wired such that they are one 12 volt bank, no, it will not be an issue.  In your case, I believe you are replacing two 12 volt batteries (wired in parallel as one 12 volt battery bank) with two 6 volt batteries (wired in series as one 12 volt battery bank).  Before connecting them together in your rig, be sure you understand the difference (do NOT connect the 6 volt batteries the same way the 12 volt batteries were connected).
JD - Full timer out west
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Lou Schneider

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2016, 01:50:28 PM »
Let me bring up another issue.  To get a fast charge into the batteries, the same wiring rules apply to the charger as apply to installing an inverter.

Put the converter as close to the batteries you can without them being in the same compartment, and use short, fat cables to connect them.  The existing wires will carry the voltage back to the 12 volt distribution panel.

If you installed the converter in the same place as the old one, you probably have a fairly long run of not very thick wire connecting the converter to the batteries.   This means when the batteries are capable of accepting lots of charging current, the voltage lost along the wire reduces the charging current until a happy medium is reached between the voltage seen at the battery and the current flowing through the wire.   It only takes a change of a couple of tenths of a volt at the battery terminals to make the difference between bulk charging at 40-50 amps or charging at half that amount.

A current meter installed at the converter's output will help you see what's going on.  I used an automobile 60-0-60 ammeter in the past, now you can get a 100 amp DC digital meter with an external shunt for $10 plus shipping on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LCD-DC-100A-Digital-display-LED-Panel-Ammeter-amp-Ampere-Meter-100A-75mV-shunt-/290940256866?hash=item43bd640262:g:MFsAAMXQTZhR0fiH

Put the external shunt in line with the converter and you'll have an accurate measurement of how much current is actually getting to your batteries.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:43:47 PM by Lou Schneider »

JDOnTheGo

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2016, 02:41:07 PM »
Sam's has 2 gc-2 battery's. One for $85 and it's 107 rc mins @ 75 amps. And one for $112 which is 112. Can someone put this into prospective for me plz. Trying to decided if spending $60 more is worth it. Also what kind of charge times will I be looking at with theses?

The value that this industry typically uses is the 20 amp hour rate.  I would bet that the $85 6 volt battery is a a GC-2 in the 200-220 amp-hour range (at the 20 amp hour rate).  This is a good place to start. 

Looking at Sam's website, I suspect you are looking 230 amp hour battery (at the 20 amp hour rate) for $112.  I suspect that is a different group size (different physical size) but am not sure.  I would not spend the extra money for it without knowing more.

Charge time is a pretty complex subject which varies based on your charger (converter), battery state, temperature, etc...  I'm not smart enough to even guess at an answer.
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
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v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2016, 04:45:21 PM »
My mistake.... everything shut off. Must have been power left in the lines? However the COx detector is still on with the chassis battery

SargeW

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2016, 05:00:44 PM »
If you haven't yet, pick up a hydrometer and test each cell in both batteries after they have been off the charger for a few hours. One bad cell in a battery will go dead quick, and draw the other good battery down with it. The bad news is you would still have to replace both batteries at the same time. 

X2 on the 6V GC batteries. You won't be sorry.
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v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2016, 05:09:24 PM »
I also just realized. Does that mean I would need 4 golf cart battery's to equal what I have now? Of that's the case I don't have the room.

JDOnTheGo

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2016, 05:14:59 PM »
Two 6 volt batteries of 220 amp-hours each connected in series equals one 12 volt battery bank of 220 amp-hours (about 110 amp hours usable).  Given the numbers previously given in this thread for the two 12 volt batteries that we think you have, you will increase your total capacity by some 60 amp-hours (approximately).
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
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v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2016, 05:31:49 PM »
How do I know the app hours on the batteries I have not and the ones I buy? The ones I have now say reserve capacity 140 and mca 690

JDOnTheGo

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2016, 05:36:54 PM »
If the 20 hour amp-hour rate is not listed on the battery itself, look it up on the Internet and review the specs.  If it is a starting battery, you may never find a 20 hour rating.
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
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robertusa123

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2016, 08:55:43 PM »
Something up.  My camper last longer on one battey then yours does on 2 .    what you really need is a DC amp meater.  I'm positive you have something drawing down your batterys
1996  26ft. 3 kids 2 dog and the wife too

v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2016, 09:34:48 PM »
I have one and I am drawing 0.33 amps. Only from the refrigerator cause when I shut it off it shows zero draw

Abendage

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2016, 09:51:22 PM »
If that is indeed all you are drawing your batteries have to be shot. I'd charge them completely, unhook them, check the voltage, then let them sit for a few hours, then check the voltage again.  I'm betting one of them has a dead cell and will read around 9 volts. 

As far as the 2 different batteries at Sams. The $85 one is 208 amp hours, when wiring in series, your amp hours is equal to the ah rating of one battery, but your voltage doubles. So two of these wired in series would give you 208 ah at 12 Volts. The $112 one has 232 ah. $60 to me doesn't seem worth it for 12 usable (24 total) extra ah's. Your current 12 volt batteries should have roughly 80ah a piece in good shape.  When wiring in parrelell it's the opposite, your ah rating doubles, but your voltage stays the same. So your current batteries in good condition would have 160 amp hours.  Upgrading to the golf cart batteries would get you an extra 48 amp hours.

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v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2016, 10:48:04 PM »
I pulled the battery's today after a short charge bringing to about 12.5v a few hours later I checked them and they were at 12.3v I put them back in the rv and with in 2 hours down to 11.9v this was during the time I we watching the draw which was 0.33a

Abendage

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2016, 10:52:22 PM »
Both batteries were the same? 

How do you have your meter hooked up?  Is every single connection going through the meter and the only thing connected to the battery post is the meter?

Can you post a pic of your batts and how everything is wired?
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2018 Rockwood 2509S

kdbgoat

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2016, 06:58:47 AM »
An easy way to to find out if it's your batteries or not-take them to an auto parts store, have them charge them and then do a load test. That would be a lot simpler than than fiddle-farting around guessing. If your batteries have a CCA listing, they are marine or dual purpose batteries. They are not the best thing to use on an RV to start with. If you have to buy new batteries, get true deep-cycle batteries. They will give you more amp hours and can be discharged deeper than the dual purpose marine type.
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John From Detroit

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2016, 07:30:15 AM »
Batteries as they age loose capacity due to sulfation and other modes of failure.

When your BIG (Say group 31) starts acting like a small (Say group 24) time to replace.

NOTE: if you take a common MARINE/deep cycle (the most common 12 volt SINGLE battery in an RV) and take 'em down to say 50% state of charge or lower.. They age rapidly (l.oose capacity)

A true DEEP CYCLE liek a GC-2,, wich you need 2 of since they are six volt.. Also ages faster if run down too far,,,, BUT, 50% is not too far, and though say 25% SOC is damaging.. Not nearly as bad as the Marine types.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2016, 07:57:59 AM »
If you are going to get new batteries, please read my Library article on RV Battery Choices. It's not long or exceedingly technical and will help you understand the trade-offs of battery type, size, and cost.

http://www.rvforum.net/miscfiles/Choosing_right_battery.pdf

Yes, it is entirely possible for a one year old marine type battery to be worn (damaged) to the point where capacity drops substantially. Detroit John gave one good reason.

A charge to 12.5v is not yet a full charge. It has to reach 12.6 and stabilize there. 12.6 with the charger still active is nowhere near adequate - it should easily reach 13.6 with the charger running.
Gary
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530ktm

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2016, 12:53:39 PM »
I pulled the battery's today after a short charge bringing to about 12.5v a few hours later I checked them and they were at 12.3v I put them back in the rv and with in 2 hours down to 11.9v this was during the time I we watching the draw which was 0.33a
As mentioned, a short charging bringing them to 12.5 volts in no way means the battery is fully charged. You should be putting 14.6 volts into a battery for a while to get it fully charged. A battery needs to sit idle for some time to get a proper reading from it also, not shortly after charging it. If you never fully charge your battery it will die a quick death and leave you without power, like what it is doing.
2014 Itasca Sunova 33C from SoCal pulling Jeep Wrangler

v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2016, 02:19:06 PM »
New golfcart battery's are in. Wish me luck!! Combined voltage is 12.47 is this acceptable?

Abendage

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2016, 02:30:40 PM »
That just means they are not fully charged. They are at about 80%. Try to not let the voltage drop below 12.0v with no load on them.
2006 GMC 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.3L
2018 Rockwood 2509S

JDOnTheGo

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2016, 02:40:30 PM »
Quote
Try to not let the voltage drop below 12.0v with no load on them.

“Do. Or do not. There is no try.” - Yoda, Jedi Master

Suggest you get a quality battery bank monitor when able so you can treat your investment to a long and productive life.
JD - Full timer out west
1998 MCI 102 EL3 Revolution | 2010 Wrangler (daJeep) | 650 Watts Solar
My Adventures

v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2016, 02:48:57 PM »
Not going so well. Went to start the gen and the battery's tanked to 2v
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 02:52:03 PM by v33sonata »

Paul & Ann

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2016, 02:54:45 PM »
Did they return to something above 12 volts once you stopped trying to start the generator?
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2016, 02:58:13 PM »
Nope. They are sitting at 2v

Len and Jo

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2016, 02:59:13 PM »
I really would recommend that you get a clamp meter and trace down what is draining your house batteries.  I would also recommend that you do this before investing in a second set of new batteries.  Here is an example one for less then the cost of one new battery:  http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-CL110KIT-Electrical-Maintenance/dp/B017SXAYKM?ie=UTF8&keywords=clamp%20meter&qid=1462910209&ref_=sr_1_12&sr=8-12
Len & Jo
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Paul & Ann

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2016, 03:07:49 PM »
Nope. They are sitting at 2v

Are you measuring the same way you did when you got 12.47?  There is no way, to my knowledge, that you could run the new batteries that dead, without having a dead short somewhere, and if that were the case, I would expect to see sparks, smoke or fire, or all three when you tried to start the generator.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2016, 03:17:13 PM »
I can't keep buying stuff. So when I disconnect the positive I get 12v back. However I'm. Showing no amp draw

v33sonata

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Re: Running out of power
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2016, 03:17:48 PM »
I also have a clamp meter

 

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