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Author Topic: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work  (Read 35413 times)

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2007, 09:16:49 AM »
Quote
Does Fleetwood have a factory owned and operated repair shop in Florida like Monaco?

No - it's in Indiana.

And now I'll state some rather broad opinions of my own..

1. Vehicle repair services in the USA generally give poor service at very high rates. Not all shops, but a large percentage of them. Work is often done sloppily, sometimes incorrectly, rarely on the promised schedule and occasionally not at all. I ought to be able to expect better, but I have learned to be happy and  thankful when it happens.

2. Lazy Days is very much customer oriented but service is just plain poorly managed. However, it's a huge undertaking - over 200 service bays plus a body shop and a cabinet shop - and the volume/flow of work has to be a nightmare. And schedule-breaking emergencies, e.g. water leaks, are a many times a day occurrence. Having grown up in the repair business (Dad owned a body shop), I'm sympathetic to the problems, but LD really needs to get a better handle on things. Managers, promoted from within, probably won't do it because they have been steeped in the existing culture too long. They probably need an outsider with a fresh viewpoint, which is always disruptive but sometimes necessary to break out of the mold.

3.Despite all the problems, LD may still be one of the better places to get RVs repaired. Just don't be in a hurry cause it ain't gonna happen on your schedule.  Yeah, yeah, I know, but I'd rather get things fixed some time rather  than go to a bozo who screws it up or doesn't fix it at all.

Gary
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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2007, 09:18:04 AM »
Shayne

I will make one last post to address your last comments - any further posts would be just repeating ourselves, so I think we will have to differ in opinion on this.

(I didnt fully understand your last post as it was lacking a few paragraph spaces, so forgive me if I have missed something).

I would remind you that I am the one who's spent the $130,000+ in this situation, so I have a slightly higher expectation than perhaps you have.  ;)

You have gone from stating the RV shouldn't be driven too much to now stating it shouldnt be driven more than a few miles from Lazydays - it appears that sticker was missing from my RV too.  ;)

Fleetwood manufacture a vehicle with the backing of a Nationwide network of warranty service centers - they don't state I must stay in Florida for a few weeks/months after buying a brand new RV.

When we arrived in Florida last January, we did visit a few dealers, and we found LD offered the best all-round selection.

We did spend a few days going in and out of different RVs and narrowed things down to a couple within our budget.

In the end, we purchased a vehicle we felt was right for us (I am 6'2" tall, so that did limit the choice a fair bit too).

Lazydays failed to prepare the RV for us when we purchasd it - despite being aware of many issues at least 2 weeks before we collected it - and then spent 3 weeks completing items which should have been put right during the PDI.

As such, we were not that keen to hang around at LD.

We travelled across the USA, averaging 100 miles per day - that is not abuse !! (over the year, we have now averaged 76 miles per day).

Due to warranty issues with the RV, we had to visit other dealers in Fleetwoods authorised network - surely that's what they're there for?

When we came to the end of our warranty period, Fleetwood very kindly agreed that the work could be completed at LD this February.

We haven't had any dealer do anything that wasn't either charged for or completed under warranty - except the cupboard door Hector repaired, for which we showed our appreciation directly to him.

Paul



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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2007, 10:22:35 AM »
Shayne,

Based on your comments, I think you must be the Service Manager at Lazydays dressed in sheeps clothing.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2007, 04:06:22 PM by raedmunds71 »
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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2007, 01:20:12 PM »

Saturday February 24th

We have just (2:00pm) received a call from Justin to advise us that we need to find a hotel room for Monday and Tuesday nights.

This is the type of thing which is so annoying - why didn't they tell us this when they knew it was going to take 3 days to do the body shop work.

We could have kept the rental car we just returned - and we could have started looking for accommodation in the middle of the week.

Paul
 

Tom

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2007, 01:39:48 PM »
Paul,

Given your prior experiences and the numerous reports/warnings of others in this forum, why wouldn't your expectations/assumptions have changed? I understand it must be very frustrating (been there, done that with a different dealership), but it's not over until it's over.
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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2007, 02:10:25 PM »

Tom

When we had our problems at Lazydays last year, there were TWO employees from LD who were posting on here in defense of both the sales and service departments.

TBH, I wasn't that keen to come back, but as the warranty work covered different work shops, I didn't know of anyone else who had the facilities to do the work.

I then read a few good reviews of Lazydays (OK, so it was sales and not service).

As we want to return to the US when we have sold the RV, it would be far easier to deal with LD again.

So, I guess that I was hoping things had improved - giving me confidence for next time.

Alas, it was not to be.

Paul


Tom

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2007, 02:22:13 PM »
Paul,

What you've experienced is why I don't visit dealerships for service or repair any more. I do my own maintenance and, if there's something I can't repair myself, I wait until I either visit a Monaco service center or a rally that has numerous Monaco techs in attendance (such as Monaco & FMCA rallies).

If it's any consolation, our boat cost 5X what our coach cost (both new) and I had equally lousy service from the boat dealer. I didn't always have the luxury of being in someone's face and sometimes had to call from overseas in the middle of the night to try to resolve issues. It finally took a letter to the CEO (aka MD) of the manufacturer to get things done. I believe I suggested you do the same thing many months ago.

I had a much longer epistle for you earlier this morning, but my computer crashed just as I was about to hit the 'Post' button  :(
« Last Edit: February 24, 2007, 05:25:45 PM by Tom »
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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2007, 02:27:53 PM »

Tom

I did write to Lazydays last March - and received nothing from them.

I have sent emails to John Horton and Don Wallace yesterday - I don't expect much of a reply, if any, but will let you know.

Paul


Tom

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2007, 02:29:32 PM »
Paul, I was talking about writing to Fleetwood. I'm sure they'd like to hear how their dealers are/are not supporting customers for their products.

I don't know if you followed this topic but, when Dave received bad service work from one Cummins repair facility and no help from another, he wasted no time calling Cummins (the engine manufacturer) and they immediately intervened to get things resolved.

Sometimes it's a matter of knowing who's buttons to push, which ones and when.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2007, 02:42:20 PM by Tom »
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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2007, 03:18:54 PM »

Sorry Tom

I misunderstood you - when this gets sorted, I will write to them.

After I finally get a personal contact at Fleetwood - I actually knocked on the door of Owner Relations in Decatur - Ive had few problems since.

Having a direct email to one of the Supervisors has helped.

Paul

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2007, 03:41:47 PM »

I'm going to cry now !! - but Im sure you will find this story amusing (we may do one day too).

Knowing we were to be at LD, we arranged for our mail to be forwarded to RallyPark - the on-site CG belonging to LD

Whenever we have mail delivered we have it electronically tracked.

Well, Ann-Marie called into the CG at 8:30am on Thursday and there was no mail for us - I called in later in the morning, and still nothing.

We both called in at 8:30am on Friday and were told the mail always arrives between 11:00am and 1:00pm

After checking the online tracking service, I found the package had been delivered at 11:44am on Thursday, so we called in to ask where the mail was.

We told them that we had confirmation the mail had already arrived on Thursday.

They just told us, for the first time, that they would have sent a message to our CG site to let us know there was mail for us.

We explained we were still in the Service Area and didnt have a site number.

The staff then explained that they only keep mail for current guests or for those with an incoming reservation - otherwise, the mail would be returned with USPS when the following days mail arrived. (every other CG we know of keeps mail for 14 days !!).

We explained that we couldn't get a reservation as they were full, and we were advised to telephone them each day. And, as a result of the delays in service we weren't now ready for a site anyway.

But we didn't know this when we arranged for the mail to be sent.

They simply said there was no mail and they didn't know if any had been returned.

I explained that we called in on Thursday and they hadnt received the mail, and that if they didnt have our details they would arrange to return it on friday - but we called in before that mail would have been sent back.

So now we don't know where our mail is.

And - wait for it - the package contains our new Visa paperwork allowing us to stay in the USA from February 1st to end-April 2007. We have no idea what else we face losing.

Ive now got to chase USPS to find the mail and speak with the Immigration Service to ask for copies of our Visa Extensions.

I need a beer !!

Paul





Tom

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2007, 05:20:03 PM »
Blame it on the new homeland security measures to keep out illegal aliens. Good luck with the INS (or whatever they're called nowadays); They give new meaning to bureaucracy.

Wait until your existing visas expire, cross into Mexico (no passports or paperwork required), then hop over the fence to come back in with all the others. Head to the nearest branch of Bank Of America and get a couple of the Visa credit cards they're handing out to illegals.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2007, 05:20:39 PM »
Let's see now. You had mail sent to a campground where you were NOT staying and were unknown to the staff. You assumed they would hold mail for an unknown person for 14 days, perhaps because some other place did that for you. And you didn't forewarn the park staff that you had mail coming but were not registered guest.   And you are surprised your mail is now lost?   ::)

Paul, you must enjoy pain, because you seem to go out of your way to court it.  :'( :'( :'(
Gary
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John Canfield

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2007, 07:28:09 PM »
We ordered our coach from LD and the sales process went extremely well - I suspect the management and oversight of sales is very thorough and energetic.

Our delivery process was okay - not great, didn't meet all of our expectations, but just okay.

Our service experience there on two occasions was okay - not great, not horrible, just adequate.  We have resigned ourselves to taking the coach back to Winnebago for service - they are fantastic!  Not perfect, but the best we have found.
--John
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Mike (ex-f-221)

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2007, 05:41:59 AM »

"Why buy new?  Seems we should pay more for a used coach because someone has already spent a bunch of time/money and certainly frustration getting the coach running right."
Renting RVs (here in Germany, Europe) I always get new models, new RVs. And all of them shows a poor quality of manufacturing. Scratching my thumb at a raw piece of metal in an outside storage compartment the decision was made: I'll never buy a new one. Returning a RV last time I handed out a long list of complaints to the dealer. I would have been annoyed at buying a new RV of that poor quality.
Mike Muellner
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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2007, 08:13:36 AM »

Hi Gary

I appreciate what you are saying - and perhaps Ive been a little stupid here, but :-

In 12 months, we have had mail forwarded just about every week and have never had a problem.

Depending on where we were at the time, it could take 3 to 10 days to receive the package - and we rarely book anything a week in advance, so we arrange for stuff to be sent "keep for arrival".

We would have arranged for our mail to be sent to the main LD building - but they don't allow you to - it must go to Rally Park.

As soon as we got an estimate of how many days we'd be in LD service, we were planning a few days at Rally Park - but were told on the 19th they were full and we would have to call them each day, so we were unable to get that reservation to confirm we were coming.

Remember, it wasn't until we called in Saturday - after asking them for any mail the previous 2 days - that they actually told us their policy - and there is no mention of it on their website.

The other thing to think of is we did the exact same thing last year when we were stuck in service - and got the mail without problem.

But, I accept we should have called them first - knowing what we do about LD, I should have expected them to make things difficult for people.

Paul






Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2007, 08:40:44 AM »
Quote
In 12 months, we have had mail forwarded just about every week and have never had a problem.

Depending on where we were at the time, it could take 3 to 10 days to receive the package - and we rarely book anything a week in advance, so we arrange for stuff to be sent "keep for arrival".

If you have never made any kind of arrangements of some kind in advance at those mail delivery sites, I would say you have been extremely lucky over the past year. Like you we have mail forwarded all over the country, but never have it sent anywhere that we do not know their policy in advance. Heck, not even all US post offices will hold General Delivery mail for 14 days. And some campgrounds won't accept mail for guests at all, let alone mail for unregistered and unknown people.

But yes, the LD Rally Park really should have a more forgiving policy, in keeping with their avowed goal of customer friendliness. On the other hand, having worked in campgrounds for several summers, we know just how much guest mail arrives daily and how often it is for unknown people.  It piles up in a corner or shelf and then people call and say they won't be coming after all and would we forward their mail to some other campground for them. Is that a reasonable expectation too?  :-\

As they say in the stock markets: "Past performance is not an indicator of the future."

Gary
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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2007, 09:47:04 AM »

Hi Gary

Most of us haven't worked in CGs so wouldn't know of the problem you mention with high volumes of mail - but I accept it could cause a storage problem for smaller CGs.

You ask whether a CG should be expected to forward mail should someone not turn up - probably not.

But, if USPS offer a free service for them to forward it (I honestly don't know if they do or not), and it is simply a case of overwriting the address, then I would like to think a CG would offer to do so as a goodwill gesture - but I wouldn't be upset if they insisted on returning it to the sender either.

Having taken your comments on board - and seeing it from the CG side - I will ensure we call or email ahead in future.

I guess it would be polite to ask.

Paul

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2007, 09:56:55 AM »
We have never, and never would, have mail sent to any campground where we didn't have a reservation and hadn't asked permission first.  Some campgrounds don't accept ANY mail.  A visit to any post office, or a phone call to USPS, will get you the zip code of any general delivery post office.  When we aren't sure of where we're going to be staying, we have our mail sent to a GD PO in the destination city.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2007, 10:29:24 AM »
Exactly as we do Ned.  We would never have mail sent to a campground or to General Delivery at a post office without first checking to see if it was alright and in the case of General Delivery to confirm the postoffice does in fact handle GD since some don't.  We even check with family or friends before having mail sent.
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Shayne

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2007, 12:06:45 PM »
This one last comment from the Sheep clothed attributed service manager that is the bad boy,  I've no sympathy for assumption and for taking for ranted useage of facilities that have not been confirmed and therefore did not, do not, and will not agree with the overall condemnation of services when it  or they have not been validated.  Much of this was never validated withthe factory nor the dealer.  As said before crying wolf  only get you so far, and without validation you get nowhere. 
      If Paul would have spent 1/3 of the time contacting Fleetwood and LD, as he did complaining to us, it's highly possible something would have been done to help him.,
      The fact that he spent $170,000 on a diesel unit is exactly what I was referring too.  It's an entry level unit and of much lesser quality and not made for constant living.  Over a year straight constitutes Full Timing and it's not made for that.  Even a Pace Arrow, technically is not made for full timing.   Yes it's still a lot of money but you don't only have a home you have a truck and it's tough to make the 2 work together.    Hence why I've always said, If youdon't know what the hell you are doing, either buy used until you learn, or don';t do it at all.  Same for RVing   If you have to ask about fuel mileage, then you can't afford to RV.  There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.  It's just a fact, it's not a cheap method of ownership.   Try lowering your standards and THINK before indulging.
Old, Stubborn, Opinionated, Set in my Ways, and Independent,  IMHO

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2007, 12:46:20 PM »

Shayne

With the greatest of respect - I think you have lost the plot.

You need to take a pill or something as you are clearly upset over this.

I guess your signature does say it all.

Regards
Paul

PS Before the Forum Staff get involved, I will in future stick to posting of my experience at Lazydays - I thought I was giving people a view of what is happening, so they can make up their own minds whether to use the facility or not.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2007, 08:22:35 PM »
Quote
I thought I was giving people a view of what is happening, so they can make up their own minds whether to use the facility or not.

And I for one appreciate your effort to document events as they happen to you. It's not necessary that we always agree on the conclusions - the facts are still the facts.
Gary
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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2007, 07:05:03 AM »
Shayne,

All of Phil's problems can be traced back to the manufacturer and then the LD's lack of any apparent follow through on POST delivery commitments made at the time of sale. It is wrong for the manufacturer to build a vehicle with the though that the dealer will correct their mistakes. Several years ago, there was a post on this forum where one manufacturer of a high end coach was quoted as saying they allowed $30,000 of the original factory price for warranty work.

I think you have missed the whole point here. The manufacturers should build the RV right in the first place. Strict quality control and good design actually  SAVES money in the long run, as Phil's case can be used to so adequately demonstrate.

Chet18013
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Karl

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2007, 09:21:05 AM »
Chet,
Who is Phil? ???

Paul,
I, like many others I'm sure, appreciate your candor when discussing your problems. It takes a big man to be forthright and honest when discussing things that may have been handled better or differently. I think we all can learn a lesson from you. ;)
Karl (Cheesehead) Kolbus   Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy cow ...what a ride!"

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2007, 09:21:28 AM »
No, I didn't miss the point  and that statement of 30K is Bull pucky.  The point is he didn't allow shakedown jaunts and then return to the dealer and have things repaired.  He took off on a half world tour and planned on returning after 1 year.,   Also it's highly possible he got a unit that just came in and wanted to get on the road, cause was ready to go and that unit probably wasn't serviced at all.  You as a salesman would want your commission and send him on his way so you could be paid, figuring he will return soon and have the thing serviced at that time.  In large dealerships this is what happens.  Too many gullible people buy from these places and let them get away with crap like this.   Again large Dealerships suck in my estimation unless you have factory service.   I've been a salesmanager and of a auto and small RV dealership and heard it all.  Small shops in general can't get away with that.  Now it brings up the questiion would you rather deal with a high flying volume dealer and get shafted or pay a few bucks more and be treated properly.  You make the choice.  I'm not advocating that all small dealers are A1=, but more are percentage wise than the high Flyers.  If you want to travel to Florida and spend perhaps a 1G tobuy from them and save maybe(?) a K  and Then spend much of that savings on fuel to return home that's your business --Just not my cup of tea.  Yes I bought in Florida but I was there for other reasons when I saw the unit of choice and was returning in 3 weeks anyway so I purchased it and picked it up on the return voyage.  Wasn't out of my way and I was going there anyway.  However it was not a high flying dealer.  I stay away from them, unless I was buying price only and picking it up at the factory.  Never would I pick up from the dealer.  That's just my choice, cause I've been there and seen what they ship to dealers.  Take it or leave it, that's my thoery and I can think of no other reason to buy from High flyers.  Another reason I always buy used.  JMHO
Old, Stubborn, Opinionated, Set in my Ways, and Independent,  IMHO

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2007, 10:48:02 AM »
My error. Sorry, it's Paul not Phil. CRS got into my fingers when typing.

I still contend the whole issue boils down to poor QC at the factory level for the entire industry. It's always cheaper to do the job once, the right way than to do it again in conditions that are less than ideal, ie, the dealers facilities. The RV should have been built right in the first place--THAT's MY POINT.

And I seem to recall from Paul's original posts of a year ago that he had a rather extended stay at the dealer when he picked up the unit and tried then to get many of the issues fixed. He certainly did not jump in the RV and leave on his planed trip. Before criticizing  Paul, perhaps a reading or rereading of his original posts about the problems when picking up the RV might be helpful.

As for purchasing new or used, I also would never buy new, and prefer used.

Chet18013
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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2007, 03:20:55 PM »
Monday February 26th

I mentioned on Friday that I had sent emails to Don Wallace and John Horton at Lazydays.

Below is the email I sent - I tried to keep it short or I would have written too much :-

Dear Mr Wallace

My wife and I purchased a new Fleetwood Expedition on February 1st 2006.

We had an exceptional level of service from your Sales team, right to
the point where you had our money - then things went very bad, very
quickly.

We had to spend our first 3 weeks sat at Lazydays whilst various
repairs were made to our new RV - all things which should have been
dealt with at the PDI stage.

When we finally left, we spent an enjoyable year travelling the USA and Canada.

As we approached our 15,000 warranty limit for the RV, we arranged
with Fleetwood for the outstanding items to be addressed when we got
back to Seffner this month.

So, in December 2006, we arranged our warranty service with you,
commencing February 19th.

When we arrived for our 8:45am appointment, we were kept waiting until
10:00am for our Service Advisor - not exactly the ideal start.

We've now been here all week and your service team have managed to
work on our vehicle for just 2 days - whilst we are repeatedly told "
we hope to get you sorted later today".

When we were told today that nothing would be done until next Monday I
decided to speak with your Service Manager, Dana.

Whilst not expecting her to work miracles at 2pm on a Friday
afternoon, I was taken aback with her blase attitude to the many upset
customers sat with me in the service area.

She just wasn't interested in trying to understand our concerns - to
the point that she pointed to her chair and stated I was welcome to it
if I could do things better.

What a pathetic attitude from a senior Manager within your company.

May I respectfully ask that you review your Service Department -
perhaps expanding the level of training and replicating the high level
of service you offer in the Sales Department.

After writing of our Lazydays experiences on several forums, I am
amazed at the number of people who have experienced the same poor
level of after-sales service.

Yours sincerely,
Paul Chatwin


Well, I've just received the following email from their Customer Service Manager :-

Iím very sorry that we let you down.

I have tried several times to call you today, perhaps I do not have the correct number.

I have checked on your coach and it should be ready on Thursday of this week.

Dana Smith  had me send you a check this morning for 137.36 for lamps.

If you have any other concerns, please give me a call.

Mary Caldwell

Customer Service Manager
Lazydays RV Super Center


Firstly, it seem there is a major problem with the telephone systems at LD.

I actually left voicemail messages for our Service Advisor FOUR TIMES last week and didn't get a single reply - although he claims to have called me.

Now, the Customer Service Manager has tried calling me several times this morning - but I have received nothing.

I did get a missed call and voicemail message from Progressive, so it seems my phone is working OK.

It's a pity Mary Cauldwell didn't chose to speak with me when I had a chat with her (different matter) at 10am this morning - she couldn't say she didnt know who I was as she was sat eating cookies with Dana Smith at the time !!

Let's face it - I wasn't really expecting much of a reply from them was I !!

Paul
« Last Edit: February 26, 2007, 03:26:12 PM by UK-RV »

Tom

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2007, 03:33:12 PM »
Nice letter Paul.

Just for my info, is your phone a UK phone, or a U.S. one? Only reason I ask is that I'm continually amazed at how many folks don't understand the need to dial an international code.
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raedmunds71

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Re: Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2007, 03:56:18 PM »
Paul,

You are dealing with this issue and some of the replies in this forum with lots of patience and dignity. Good for you!
I'm not sure if I could remain this cool.

I'm not sure if  Don Wallace or John Horton is the "MAN" but I still think you ought to compile all posts regarding this issue, deliver them to the "MAN", and ask for an appointment with him "face to face" a couple days later to review these issues in detail.
It sounds like you have the time!

The top dog in that company needs to see and hear what some of his customers are going through. I think you have probably documented this painful process more accurately than most. Don't let it go to waste.

You have my sympathy!


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