Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work

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Mick

Would I buy from Lazydays again - yes, as nobody else gets close on price.

Would I take delivery from Lazydays - NEVER AGAIN - it would have to be factory delivery (so that would be a USA collection March to November for Indiana I guess)

Would I use or recommend them for warranty/service - NO WAY - in fact I will go out of my way to warn people about them !!

Would I buy a Fleetwood again - to be honest, I have nothing to compare ours with.

I've met so many people who are having problems with their vehicles that it's hard to find the worst make.

Paul
 
Somewhere a long time ago, I stated Price isn't everything.  Guess this is a good indication of that statement.  Also a long time ago I believe in the 1st few messages Paul was warned about not buying the 1st thing he saw.  Well he didn't and if not mestaken bought the 2nd unit or there abouts and took off for the unknown and rushing around the country at a vey hectic rate trying to consume 5yrs of travel in a matter of months.  I'm not sure ANY RV let alone an entry level unit is capable of withstanding the sometimes abuse this unit recieved.  This unit has recieved more than ours has in 9 years. Yes we have a Fleetwood and have respect for the unit, but would never treat it like that. Afterall,  this is also a home, not a tool.  This is only my opinion and ask no one to agree or disagree. However I'd virture to say hardly anyone would take a unit and start that kind of trip.  You break it in  not out,.  I've followed all of Paul's threads  and while I have some sympathy for him,  I certainly disagree with some of the measures he has taken to operate and go about trying to correct things.  Sometimes you call Wolf too often in the wrong tone of voice.  You can gather more bees with honey than with a hornet spray.  JMHO
 
"and took off for the unknown and rushing around the country at a very hectic rate trying to consume 5yrs of travel in a matter of months.  I'm not sure ANY RV let alone an entry level unit is capable of withstanding the sometimes abuse this unit received.  This unit has received more than ours has in 9 years. Yes we have a Fleetwood and have respect for the unit, but would never treat it like that."

Shayne, where did you get the information to make a statement like that (see above)? I don't remember reading anything about Paul abusing his RV.

I guess if I were to go on a long road trip like they had planned I would feel quite safe in any new vehicle. I would assume the warranty would be reliable the problems would be minimal and there would be someone to help me if I had problems.

If we have lowered our expectations of an American made vehicle of any kind to something less than that it is a pretty sad state of affairs. 

It's no wonder that our American auto companies are in trouble.
 
Why buy new?  Seems we should pay more for a used coach because someone has already spent a bunch of time/money and certainly frustration getting the coach running right.

I can't believe I just said that. 

I have spent a lifetime repairing peoples problems, first in the automotive arena owning a 12 bay service center, and second owning a pc-repair business.  I learned to care about getting it right the first time.  It was the cheapest/fastest way to customer/employee satisfaction excellence.  Every person in the organization has to learn to take responsibility of getting it right.  That includes the Service Adviser for estimating the problem and the duration of repair needed.

I once worked at a Foreign Car Repair that had a unique policy.  When you dropped your car off, they simply said "We will call you when it is done".  If you pestered the SA, you might get "probably this week".  So this would be one side of where the pendulum can swing.  Certainly best for the employee.

It comes down to fixing it correctly in a timely manner.  And I think that is where the frustration lies.  The repairs needed are not all emergencies.  Delivering a coach tomorrow is not an emergency when you have had 3 weeks to fix it.  Poor/No planning makes it an emergency.
Here is an example:
I was sharing this thread experience with a neighbor in the CG.  He said he bought his used Newmar from LD several years and 2 coaches back.  He did his PDI no problem and went camping.  On Friday afternoon it started raining and his livingroom had water running down the wall.  He called LD and they told him they would get him in on Sat at 8am for emergency repair.

They did not have a bay for him so they started doing the Eternabond application outside since it wasn't raining.  15 minutes later guess what, you got it, it was raining like crazy.  3 people stood watching the whitewash run down the side of the coach.  The problem just escalated in repair duration and bottom line profit reduction.  This is a nono since you can't have one without the other.

Promising to fix something without the equipment, facility and trained people is a losing situation.  Surely LD has the 1st two but lacks people that make a positive difference in both the technicians and service advisers.  There maybe a lack of lead mechanic/supervisor that coordinate the equipment/facility usage.

And a technician that said something was fixed and had not looked at it would be terminated, immediately.  I just can't imagine this happening unless the employment training didn't clearly state what was expected, whose responsibility it would fall on and what the outcome would be for failure.

But they can only handle so many emergencies without disrupting the whole cycle.  Taking parts from one vehicle to put on another is a nono because there is no way to recoup the labor expended on the 2nd coach.  Customer doesn't want to wait for normal delivery (he pays, no problem)  But this is clearly poor planing from the supervisor group.  You get qualified people ordering parts in a timely manner.  When parts are defective or wrong, these are expedited because you now have your operation tied up waiting, eating away at the bottom line.

From my stand point in computers assisting manufacturing, ISO was the biggest help to the bottom line because management had to spell out all the possible scenarios and the solution.  Most found that the best solution for the company bottom line was also the best for the customer.

I'm sorry that this whole thing happened to Paul and others.  I think all the time spent talking about it, could have been used to fix the darn thing.

Mike
 
Paul,

Perhaps you should transfer your last entry in the thread

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=9596.0

to this thread, what you say there sums up what the last posters here are saying.

My only criticism would be to change the word ABUSE to USE in Shayne's posting, how can you call using your RV for what its intended abusing???
 
Hi Shayne

I must respond to you post, given that you feel I am going about things in the wrong way and have abused my RV.

"Paul...took off for the unknown and rushing around the country at a vey hectic rate trying to consume 5yrs of travel in a matter of months. I'm not sure ANY RV let alone an entry level unit is capable of withstanding the sometimes abuse this unit recieved."

I dont recall reading any warning notices on the RV or in the Fleetwood literaure stating you were restricted to using the RV for just 3 days out of 7 in case you "abuse it" by driving it too much or by using the fixtures within.

"I certainly disagree with some of the measures he has taken to operate and go about trying to correct things. Sometimes you call Wolf too often in the wrong tone of voice."

How do you know which "tone of voice" I have used ?

Just because I have chosen to speak with someones superior doesn't mean that it was with disrespect - I have expressed my concerns and listened to the responses. I have NEVER let my frustration come out in any way other than politeness. I would rather write to the next Manager in line than waste my time getting nowhere with someone.

Of course, when we did write to the Management at Lazydays last March - we received No Reply !!

Paul

PS I would also add that we gave Hector a bottle of Jack Daniels as a Thank You for the work he did and for helping with a few questions we had. I didn't put that in my previous post as they are fairly long anyway and you wouldn't want to be reading a novel would you, so please dont judge me unless you have met me.


 
"Why buy new?  Seems we should pay more for a used coach because someone has already spent a bunch of time/money and certainly frustration getting the coach running right."

Mike,

If we did this again, and I hope we do, I am leaning toward a used vehicle more than I am a new one.

As I stated on another thread, I dont believe RVs are being driven enough for problems to show up before the warranty expires.

Then, there is too much of a temptation to ignore the "little" problems when faced with high repair bills for an ever-increasing repair list.

As such, I wouldnt buy an RV (diesel) with less than 10,000 miles driven per year, and I would want to see receipts for service schedules completed at the correct times - for the full list of items on each schedule.

I would WANT to see lists of warranty repairs completed on the RV - I wouldn't trust anyone selling a 3 year old RV with no warranty repairs completed.

For me, the other HUGE advantage of buying a used vehicle is being able to visit ANY repair facility to get work done - I wouldnt have to try and find a Fleetwood authorised repair center (try phoning Fleetwood, give them your zip code, and call the dealers they give you - you will find a lot of them havent dealt with Fleetwood for years).

Paul
 
I would never dream of taking a unit and heading out the way Paul did, without a few minor trips to straighten things out at the dealer prior to launching a couple of Nation wide tours, Canada and the USA.  To me that is abuse no way shape or form in my opinion, and that's what I gave   MY OPINION, after having in the past been a sales manager for both an auto and RV dealership.   The complaints on the forum have been so numerous that is stands to reason the complaints were elsewhere at dealerships the were not paid for servicing, only for warranty work.   The majority of what I've read in the forums posted were results of the new vehicle service and no warranty.  That;s were the selling dealer comes into effect and why you should take Small trips to, shall we say, Break it in.  Prolonged ABUSE without out this when something is wrong, only leads to more damage along the way.  I feel the unit was rushed through the service end, if any was done to start with, and things escalated from their.   It's not Fleetwoods problem, but LD's.  All of which could have been prevented had small trips, initially been taken and then returned to LD for the adjusting services.  Thus preventing much of the troubles along the road, 1 yr later.  And yes Paul.  Tom, himself forwarn you about rushing  into the sale immediately, prior to you going to LD.  The tone of voice in always complaining to the wrong people, it should have been done only with LD's and comfirmed in writing, not with other dealers.  Then you confirm things with Fleetwood.  All the bellyaching in the world turns some people a deaf ear and much is loss in the process.   Yes I hurt for Paul but IN MY OPINION, he went about the whole thing, the wrong way.  Had he come to my dealership,  I would have checked WARRANTY item only and any thing else would be strictly at his expense.  Any adjustment is selling dealer responsibility only.  It is possible the unit was fresh at the dealership and never serviced in the 1st place.  I've had cars and RV's go out like that, and people want them now when they buy them.  Hench we always figured and told them to drive and return for the service as soon as possible and if something was wrong, return immediately.   All this IMHO could have been avoided had this been done.  So don't blame Fleetwood,  it's the dealer and Paul for most of the problems. Al;so  I agree, I personally NEVER buy new Autos or RV's.  This is a good example why.  Of course if we all did that, there wold be no reason for new units.  Then again, I'm not a prestige guy and having a new unit doesn't impress me.  I also theink American Products are fine and I still believe the workmanship is there, but today's market for RV's brings so many more challenges than autos it's very very difficult to see and correct everything from the onset. AGain JMO
 
Does Fleetwood have a factory owned and operated repair shop in Florida like Monaco?  Do you think if Paul had a Monaco, the present situation would be the same? 
I double that any factory repair outlet would do body work.  I know they do glass.
Joe Bee
 
Does Fleetwood have a factory owned and operated repair shop in Florida like Monaco?

No - it's in Indiana.

And now I'll state some rather broad opinions of my own..

1. Vehicle repair services in the USA generally give poor service at very high rates. Not all shops, but a large percentage of them. Work is often done sloppily, sometimes incorrectly, rarely on the promised schedule and occasionally not at all. I ought to be able to expect better, but I have learned to be happy and  thankful when it happens.

2. Lazy Days is very much customer oriented but service is just plain poorly managed. However, it's a huge undertaking - over 200 service bays plus a body shop and a cabinet shop - and the volume/flow of work has to be a nightmare. And schedule-breaking emergencies, e.g. water leaks, are a many times a day occurrence. Having grown up in the repair business (Dad owned a body shop), I'm sympathetic to the problems, but LD really needs to get a better handle on things. Managers, promoted from within, probably won't do it because they have been steeped in the existing culture too long. They probably need an outsider with a fresh viewpoint, which is always disruptive but sometimes necessary to break out of the mold.

3.Despite all the problems, LD may still be one of the better places to get RVs repaired. Just don't be in a hurry cause it ain't gonna happen on your schedule.  Yeah, yeah, I know, but I'd rather get things fixed some time rather  than go to a bozo who screws it up or doesn't fix it at all.

 
Shayne

I will make one last post to address your last comments - any further posts would be just repeating ourselves, so I think we will have to differ in opinion on this.

(I didnt fully understand your last post as it was lacking a few paragraph spaces, so forgive me if I have missed something).

I would remind you that I am the one who's spent the $130,000+ in this situation, so I have a slightly higher expectation than perhaps you have.  ;)

You have gone from stating the RV shouldn't be driven too much to now stating it shouldnt be driven more than a few miles from Lazydays - it appears that sticker was missing from my RV too.  ;)

Fleetwood manufacture a vehicle with the backing of a Nationwide network of warranty service centers - they don't state I must stay in Florida for a few weeks/months after buying a brand new RV.

When we arrived in Florida last January, we did visit a few dealers, and we found LD offered the best all-round selection.

We did spend a few days going in and out of different RVs and narrowed things down to a couple within our budget.

In the end, we purchased a vehicle we felt was right for us (I am 6'2" tall, so that did limit the choice a fair bit too).

Lazydays failed to prepare the RV for us when we purchasd it - despite being aware of many issues at least 2 weeks before we collected it - and then spent 3 weeks completing items which should have been put right during the PDI.

As such, we were not that keen to hang around at LD.

We travelled across the USA, averaging 100 miles per day - that is not abuse !! (over the year, we have now averaged 76 miles per day).

Due to warranty issues with the RV, we had to visit other dealers in Fleetwoods authorised network - surely that's what they're there for?

When we came to the end of our warranty period, Fleetwood very kindly agreed that the work could be completed at LD this February.

We haven't had any dealer do anything that wasn't either charged for or completed under warranty - except the cupboard door Hector repaired, for which we showed our appreciation directly to him.

Paul


 
Saturday February 24th

We have just (2:00pm) received a call from Justin to advise us that we need to find a hotel room for Monday and Tuesday nights.

This is the type of thing which is so annoying - why didn't they tell us this when they knew it was going to take 3 days to do the body shop work.

We could have kept the rental car we just returned - and we could have started looking for accommodation in the middle of the week.

Paul
 
Paul,

Given your prior experiences and the numerous reports/warnings of others in this forum, why wouldn't your expectations/assumptions have changed? I understand it must be very frustrating (been there, done that with a different dealership), but it's not over until it's over.
 
Tom

When we had our problems at Lazydays last year, there were TWO employees from LD who were posting on here in defense of both the sales and service departments.

TBH, I wasn't that keen to come back, but as the warranty work covered different work shops, I didn't know of anyone else who had the facilities to do the work.

I then read a few good reviews of Lazydays (OK, so it was sales and not service).

As we want to return to the US when we have sold the RV, it would be far easier to deal with LD again.

So, I guess that I was hoping things had improved - giving me confidence for next time.

Alas, it was not to be.

Paul

 
Paul,

What you've experienced is why I don't visit dealerships for service or repair any more. I do my own maintenance and, if there's something I can't repair myself, I wait until I either visit a Monaco service center or a rally that has numerous Monaco techs in attendance (such as Monaco & FMCA rallies).

If it's any consolation, our boat cost 5X what our coach cost (both new) and I had equally lousy service from the boat dealer. I didn't always have the luxury of being in someone's face and sometimes had to call from overseas in the middle of the night to try to resolve issues. It finally took a letter to the CEO (aka MD) of the manufacturer to get things done. I believe I suggested you do the same thing many months ago.

I had a much longer epistle for you earlier this morning, but my computer crashed just as I was about to hit the 'Post' button  :(
 
Tom

I did write to Lazydays last March - and received nothing from them.

I have sent emails to John Horton and Don Wallace yesterday - I don't expect much of a reply, if any, but will let you know.

Paul

 
Paul, I was talking about writing to Fleetwood. I'm sure they'd like to hear how their dealers are/are not supporting customers for their products.

I don't know if you followed this topic but, when Dave received bad service work from one Cummins repair facility and no help from another, he wasted no time calling Cummins (the engine manufacturer) and they immediately intervened to get things resolved.

Sometimes it's a matter of knowing who's buttons to push, which ones and when.
 
Sorry Tom

I misunderstood you - when this gets sorted, I will write to them.

After I finally get a personal contact at Fleetwood - I actually knocked on the door of Owner Relations in Decatur - Ive had few problems since.

Having a direct email to one of the Supervisors has helped.

Paul
 

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