Lazydays to perform our final Warranty work

I doubt that I'd be calm either Paul.

Thursday March 1st - Update

A porter came to drive the RV to the Body Shop for them to take a look at the damage.

I decided to go and see the Service Manager (Dana Smith) to inform her that her service team had damaged the RV.

She came across to the bays with me, and asked (I'm guessing) one of the Supervisors to come too.

Once there, we met up with Justin and one of the paint shop guys.

I pointed out the damage  - and they discussed whether it was pre-existing damage - right in front of me.

Justin confirmed the main chip was not there when we checked-in but wasn't sure of the other chip - they were clearly doubting my version of events.

Now, I don't mind them having that conversation between themselves - but in front of me was just unprofessional.

Then, they informed me it would be tomorrow before they could schedule us in for the work - at which point I stated that wasn't good enough.

Eventually, they managed to get the work booked in for this afternoon and it has now been completed.

Detailing / Wax

The reason for staying overnight last night was for the sealant to set and for them to give the coach a courtesy wash this morning.

After all the hassle we had been thru', (and before this latest damage) we suggested it might be a nice gesture if they offered to wax the coach for us too.

This was immediately declined.

Customer Service Manager

Once the damage was discovered, I spoke with the Customer Service Manager (Mary Cauldwell) to ask her to reconsider the offer of a free RV wax as compensation for the inconvenience we had suffered.

She refused - but offered us a free night at Rally Park (whoopee).

I was getting pretty upset by this point and simply stated that I was intending to park the RV across their front entrance, with my slides out and jacks down until they did something to make up for this farce.

Believe me, I would have done it too - I can just imagine the local news teams on the scene, choppers overhead (they will report on anything in Florida!!).

She then spoke with the Parts Manager and returned to say NO !!

I thanked her for her time and left.

Executive Administrator Service Support - Judy Bolton

I'm going to give a prize for anyone who knows what an "Executive Administrator Service Support" persons job role is. I don't have the answer but I think it MUST be important.

I was introduced to Judy Bolton, who informed me she was fully aware of the problems I was experiencing.

I briefly told her we were here for 3 weeks last year and she was already aware of this too.

It appears Matt Sibbick (Hi Matt) is tracking this thread and had given printouts to Judy (she claims to be watching too).

Well, my question is (and I didn't think of it this morning as I was too upset) :- If you knew all the problems, why didn't you come to find me in order to help sort them out ?

Judy admitted to me (pacified me) today that there are serious problems in the Service Department which they are trying to address.

I asked her about the free wax and she promised to look into it and get back in touch.

She did contact me and agreed that Lazyways would cover the cost of a full detail including wash, wax and buffing - so we are scheduled in at 7:30am tomorrow morning for a 4hr service.

She did state she'd spoken with John Horton who was full of apologies for the fact that Lazyways had damaged the RV.

That's it for today then as we've got to get up early.

Paul

UK-RV said:

I'm going to give a prize for anyone who knows what an "Executive Administrator Service Support" persons job role is.

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Sounds like a secretary to me.

It appears Matt Sibbick (Hi Matt) is tracking this thread and had given printouts to Judy (she claims to be watching too).

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And they still can't provide good customer service/support for you  ???  If it were me that were under the microscope, I'd be busting my butt (aka rear end) to make sure you left a happy camper. I guess that my definition of customer satisfaction is different.

Judy admitted to me (pacified me) today that there are serious problems in the Service Department which they are trying to address.

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No kidding!

She did contact me and agreed that Lazyways would cover the cost of a full detail including wash, wax and buffing...

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Hopefully they don't cause further damage to your coach! (I've had that happen, but not at LD).

Hopefully they don't cause further damage to your coach! (I've had that happen, but not at LD).

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Wash, wax, and buff right thru the gelcoat!

Paul,

Your whole story from initial delivery to the one year wrap up of these little items sounds to me like one of these programs like 60 minutes or Dateline  just might show some interest in doing a story on the purchase of a new RV and pitfalls involved. Essentially how the industry and dealers are dedicated to taking your money and saying "GOOD BYE". I'd suggest you throw this idea out at the Executive Administrator Service Support manager--or what ever --and ask what the company would think of the idea.

Chet18013

BTW, Karl is right, they can buff right through any clear coat they have recently applied if it hasn't had enough time to harden.

Chet18013

Let's be honest Tom - I don't think they could do much to make me a Lazyways "Customer For Life".

But the (eventual) offer of the free full detailing does go some way to make the inconvenience of this enforced stay more bearable.

I did ask the Paint Shop guys how long we should leave the new paint work before it was waxed - and they said at least 60 days.

Apparently, if it is done too soon the paint is liable to crack.

You will understand why I quickly discussed this with Justin, to ensure the detail shop were made fully aware of which areas had been painted - I'm sure they would have just sent the coach thru' as is if I hadn't asked about any potential problems.

And you can bet that paint would have started to crack when I get back to the UK.

It's probably good that I'm logging it here should they ignore the above and cracks do actually appear (please take note Matt and Judy !!).

Paul

PS They are also waiting for the Expedition graphic to arrive and have promised to send this to us when it does (please take note Justin).

Chet18013 said:

...sounds to me like one of these programs like 60 minutes or Dateline  just might show some interest in doing a story on the purchase of a new RV and pitfalls involved.

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Oh my, I can see it now .... "Brits face gauntlet of new RV purchase; Welcome to America!".

Paul, Many have pleasant, mellow memories of their travels that blur because nothing really happened. You, however, will ALWAYS remember this trip. The trips I remember best are the ones where SOMETHING happened....not always a 'good' something but at least something. Snow at Black Canyon, wheel falling off in Riverside, no heat in Ely where it was 18 degrees...ah, those are the memories.

Enjoy (what else can you do??)
Wendy

Well Paul,

I was sure it was just the Yanks that these southern gentle people disliked.  But they could be just confused on the history thing.  I can just see the headlines:  "Brits and vehicle held hostage by Confederates.  It was a hot, lazy day near Tampa..."

Hope it gets all straight.

Mike

Friday March 2nd

Last night, we stayed in the front parking lot of Lazyways.

We turned the Generator on, but no power came into the RV.

I found the "Isolator Switch" (cant remember its correct name) on the Generator was in the OFF position, so I turned it back on - I guess they had flicked the switch when they were working on our Overtemp problem.

When I did, we had power.

As it was a very warm night we ran the air conditioning for a while - when it got a little cold, Ann-Marie went to turn it down a little.

As soon as she touched the control panel, the air conditioning and everything else in the RV turned off - but the generator was still running.

The control panel totally blacked out.

I thought the Isolator Switch may have tripped to off or something, but it was still ON.

So, I turned the generator off and then back on again.

After that, the control panel lit up as showing us on a 50amp supply and not on the generator.

The control panel went thru its startup routine and showed all appliances as operable - but we still had NO POWER at all.

In the end, we turned the Generator off and ran the inverter for just the TV and laptop.

We tried it all again this morning, but nothing would work off the generator - and it still showed we were connected to a 50A supply.

So, I don't know what was done when checking the Overtemp and have left it with Justin for someone to take a look.

Paul

Any of you guys got ideas ?

Lazyways WiFi

There was no WiFi at Lazyways this morning - at the Service Center or at Rally Park.

There is a full signal but you cant actually connect to websites.

We had the same problem last week and reported it to the Reception staff at the Service Center - who claimed there was nothing they could do.

I asked if someone could just reset the server and was told they didn't have an IT department to do it.

So, I mentioned it to the Customer Service Manager and they reset the server. A guy from IT came and asked if we were back up and running.

Today, the system was down again so we spoke to the staff in Rally Park.

They said they couldnt do anything, so I asked if they could call the IT department - at which they also claimed not to have such a department.

They were a little taken aback when I explained I had physically spoken with an IT guy last week - but they STILL claimed not to have such a department.

So, I asked if they could call the main Lazyways building, to which they said they weren't able to do so. CUSTOMER SERVICE AT ITS BEST AGAIN.

Five minutes later, using my (expensive  ) cell phone, I was speaking to a very pleasant guy in the IT Department who was only too pleased to reset things for us.

He explained that the system was set-up in 3 parts - one for corporate use, one for customers and another I cant remember. He went on to say they were still having teething problems with the system and relied on instant feedback from Lazyways staff so they could immediately respond to any issues.

He stated that all departments should be aware of this.

So, for the benefit of our Lazyways Lurkers on this thread - that is ANOTHER training issue for you.

Paul

Friday March 2nd - UPDATE

The RV was taken to the service bays at 11am, for them to investigate the Generator problem.

This is what they did (taken from the warranty claim they submitted to Fleetwood) :-

check ems operation,
ac works ok but ems panel stays at 50amp when gen set is running,
check system 12 volt signal from gen when running is present at board and good ground and 12 volt batt signal
check for voltage at transfer switch,
both legs into switch have 110volt present,
suspect bad ems control board,
remove & replace ems board and test operation and working as designated at this time,
reinstall all previously removed items,
= 2hrs work

Their warranty invoice fails to mention a couple of points.....

After they had the RV from 11am to 2pm, I spoke with the service guys and they couldn't work out the problem.

So, I decided to call Fleetwood and ask them for any ideas.

Fleetwood suggested that the transfer relay and both breakers should be checked from the Generator.

I went back to the service guys inside the RV.

As soon as I got inside, I noticed that the Air Conditioning was working fine but NOTHING else was working.

I put the suggestion to the guys that the air con is controlled by one breaker and the other items by the 2nd breaker, and perhaps the breaker was faulty - something they hadn't looked at.

The service guy opened the generator door and stated there is only one breaker on this generator (as there is just the one Isolator Switch), but I stated Fleetwood said there were definately two breakers.

At this point, I think the "penny dropped" and the guy went into the RV and looked at the TWO breakers for the generator.

He noticed that one of them was not quite in the ON position and flicked it across.

As soon as he did, the control panel showed the RV running on the Gen Set and not 50 Amps.

It was 3pm by this time - all we had to do now was collect our paperwork and pay our $250 insurance deductable.

Of course, that wasn't straight-forward either as they hadnt calculated it correctly and owed me money  ;D - an hour later and WE ESCAPED LAZYWAYS !!

Whilst driving along the I4, we got a call from Judy Boulton to apologise again for the problems we have experienced.

Here ends our TWO WEEKS at LazyWays !!

Paul

Congratulations on the escape Paul. Maybe you should stay close to LD in case something else breaks  ???

Tom - I take it you are kidding me here !!

If anything goes wrong from now on LazyWays is the one place we will NOT be going.

Due to price, we had them down as our No.1 place for buying the next RV (with factory delivery of course) but we will do everything to try and find our RV elsewhere now.

Paul

UK-RV said:

I take it you are kidding me here !!

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Yes, I was only kidding Paul. Hopefully all the problems are now behind you and you can look back on this as a huge learning experience. You'll also be an expert on what can go wrong with an RV and why folks should take factory delivery.

Thanks for sharing all the stories with us. Many of us have travelled with you and shared your frustrations. You've also been a topic of discussion at numerous get-togethers we've attended. As someone said recently, many others have experienced some of the same issues, but no single person has experienced them all the way you and Anne Marie have.

I truly hope you'll stick around the forum after you return to the UK because I believe you have a lot to share with all prospective buyers in addition to things unique to prospective UK buyers.

Meanwhile, have a safe trip back to the homeland. Try to attend a match at Twickenham - the English team could do with all the moral support they can get right now  ;D

Okay,

As a potential future RV purchaser I have like thousands  ??? ??? of others been closely following this thread during which both Paul and Tom have mentioned the term 'taking factory delivery' of your RV.

Can someone explain what is meant by this term?

Will ALL dealers & manufacturers allow it?

What are the advantages and disadvantages.......there must be some otherwise every one would elect to take factory delivery.

Mick,

Taking factory delivery means just that. You make the deal/purchase through a dealer, but are essentially placing an order which the dealer passes on to the factory. You wait while the unit is being built and eventually take delivery at the factory. In the case of Monaco (and maybe others), you actually take delivery at their nearby factory service center.

The main advantage is that they assign you one or maybe several technicians who work with you to resolve any issues. Most, if not all, the techs come from &/or have been trained at the factory, so they're very familiar with how the RV is put together. You get to stay/live in the RV while this is going on and don't drive away unless/until you're happy. Since you're at or close to the factory, most spare parts are readily available. The factory will recommend that you don't wander too far and make an appointment to return in roughly 4 weeks so they can resolve anything that came up after you drove away.

With dealer delivery you're at the mercy of the dealer who doesn't want to spend his own money to get the unit fixed. If you drive it away and come back later, the dealer can charge the repairs to the factory under the warranty. At a dealership, as Paul experienced, you're at the mercy of techs who may or not be competent and who may or may not have ready access to spare parts. Add to this the appearance of a large dealership making large sales, but with a service department that may not be able to keep up. Since the dealer service department is usually a profit center, they don't have techs waiting around looking for work and all too often they're shuffled between jobs that are competing for their time.

Most, but maybe not all, manufacturers offer factory delivery, but there's usually an incremental charge which is offset to some extent by not having to pay for delivery to the dealer.

That's the short version of it. After typing this I realized that we have a file describing Taking factory delivery in our forum library.

Obviously, factory delivery is not for everyone who buys a new RV. There's the inconvenience and cost of having to fly or drive to the factory service center and arriving on the scheduled date. There's also a huge emotional factor to overcome in the buying process. i.e. the buyer often wants to drive away and use their purchase right now, which can only be done with pre-built units sitting at a dealership.

Hi Paul
glad to hear your enjoying you trip .I might add that although i am in the cheap seats this time with a trailer i am very satisfied with it.I pulled out of Rallypark after 3 days with 3 warranty issues (which i fixed myself) cost $0.Maybe i am lucky with what i bought a Forrest River Sierra 29ft not as well equiped as the Revolution but in my opinion more bang for your buck,the truck 2003 Dodge ram 3500 dually diesel is just great ,both bought from Lazydays through Matt Sibbick at a very good price.I didnt expect much from their service dept but they did fit my tow pack (purchased elswhere) foc even though it was after 6pm on a Saturday when they finished,so i guess for me they are not all that bad.
IAN

Tom gave a good answer as to what factory delivery is.  I would add that I suspect most people don't do it, either because (1) they don't know about it, or (2) they don't understand that the extra charge might be worth a lot more than the dollar amount in terms of less hassle and being upset because dealers can't fix all problems.  At the factory they can go to the factory floor to get a part or take the coach into the paint booth.  In addition, at Monaco they make sure you know how to operate everything - something that's really important as coaches get more and more complex and sophisticated.  An added benefit is that any problems that possibly might affect future performance are documented when the coach is brand new and they know it's not something your driving or usage caused.

Regarding factory delivery, we've done it four times, with two Lazy Daze Class Cs and two Monaco Class As.  As you might guess, we wouldn't do it any other way.  It is well worth every extra charge and preceived inconvenience.  On our first Monaco, our coach was only the fourth one made with a specific electrical change.  It didn't work and a dealer NEVER would have found it.  We had about 8 guys in our bedroom looking at the wiring hidden behind and under shelves, including the chief electrical designer who said the change should have worked.  On paper at least.  But the reality was different and they had to go back to the old wiring.  We were very lucky to be at the factory with that one.  Would we take factory delivery again?  YOU BETCHA!!! 

ArdraF

Ardra,

including the chief electrical designer who said the change should have worked.  On paper at least.

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Everything always works on paper (except maybe ballpoint pens). It's only after the circuit is wired and turned on that the anti-electrons show up and wreak havoc. Some of the glitches and feats of mis-engineering I've run into over the years would have been downright comical, if they hadn't been so expensive and time-consuming to find and fix.