Gutting my TT or Welcome To My Nightmare

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Gods Country

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Posts
655
Location
North Central Pa
Greetings another happy Trail Cruiser owner. ::)

So I'm the not so proud owner of a 2003 21ft Trail Cruiser.  The trailer all in all is good shape except for nuisance items like the rotten floor. ::)  I've had this trailer a couple years now and have been preparing myself to tear this thing apart for the past year.  We took our spring trip and now it will be down until further notice, hopefully not past July.

I have everything on the inside removed except anything that comes up through the floor, ie, wiring, plumbing, and propane lines.

I have 1/2 the floor out as of this post.

I am at a point where I need to start coming up with some plans to take a poor floor design and turn it into something that will last another 10 years, provided nothing else horrific crops up.

Any help suggestions along the way will be great.  Words of encouragement, crazy distant stares welcome. ;D

My current concerns are flooring material, membrane, and tape/sealant, and of course finding the source of any leaks.

At some point I will upload some pics.

Thanks for reading.


 
First let me wish you good luck. I have a 2005 Forest River TT that I had to repair the front flooring which was about 1/3 of the total flooring. First and foremost, find and correct all water leaks or you'll be just wasting time and money. Your flooring construction may be completely different than mine but here is what I did to mine.
My flooring was the basic sandwich of 1/4" luan-2" styrofoam- 1/4" luan. The factory flooring was 4x8 sheets, applied across the width of the trailer. Flooring was supported by 2" aluminum channel "joists" on 16" centers. These joists ran the width of the trailer. The Luan plywood edges were joined at the joists, so the long edge of the plywood shared a joist with the next sheet, just as is done on a normal stick frame house. The 4ft edge of the plywood is supported by the trailer frame. During original construction, the flooring is installed and the side walls are set down on top of the flooring and secured.
I removed the bad sheets by cutting them at the inside side walls and prying, chiseling, etc until the top Luan sheets were removed. The trailer frame was exposed at the sidewall so that the plywood sheet would have support. No damage was seen on the bottom exterior under trailer. Where the styrofoam was damaged during plywood removal, I applied some "great stuff" can sealant and cut and sanded it until flush. I used 1/4" plywood from HD, cut to fit from wall to wall. The original plywood was stapled to the aluminum joists. I chose to screw mine down using flat head 1" screws, spaced 6" apart, insuring they were slightly countersunk. Just pre drill the holes in the wood and joists with a small metal drill bit before running the screw in. After cleaning the floor VERY GOOD, even used a tack cloth, the floor was covered with self stick vinyl tiles (wood grain design). I weigh over 250 and floor is solid, no sag. Tiles are still tight, no separation after 3 years. Total repair cost in material was less than $200.
Again, good luck. It's

Reggie
 
Thanks for the reply Reggie.  The floor design sounds pretty much the same.  I'm still not sure where the water is coming from.  I have been watching it very closely the past two years and have never seen a single drop of water inside the actual camper, so I am assuming for the moment that the windows and perhaps bottom edging around the periphery are suspect.  But I will figure it out.....it's paramount.

I am hoping to find marine plywood, but my area is very rural.
 
My leak was frustrating to find too. It ultimately was from the shower drain P-trap (pipe became loose). The water would travel along the wall from the rear of the trailer, under the kitchen sink, cabinets and accumulate in the front under bed and front storage compartment. I always leveled trailer slightly nose downand. Water is sneaky!
 
Yep. Thought it was leaking at the slide out while towing in rain. Replaced slide out seals. Nope. Maybe front compartment, since it was wet, replaced both left and right door seals. Nope. Then when I started the repair I found the vinyl flooring was trapping water and allowed a path under it all the way from rear shower drain. Maybe the vinyl lineolym wasn't properly glued, but when I inspected the shower drain and p-trap, floor was damp and mouldy under shower. Did a wet test by blocking shower drain till shower pan was half full, removed drain block so trap would be full with some pressure and out came the water from p-trap. Watched a small, and I mean small, stream of water run right down the edge of the wall and then disappear under the lineolym. All I had to do was tighten the p-trap couplings. I've read where p-traps have cracked due to poor shower pan support. Be sure to check all window, door, ceiling and external surfaces. Basically, any place something is attached outside can be a source of water intrusion. Inside, most likely plumbing. I towed the TT from Georgia to Yellowstone and back after repair and no more wet areas. It's now permanently parked on a camping lot and still doing OK. I tow a fifth wheel camper now.
 
A few pictures of the current "progress"

The top two are the contents removed.

The bottom showing half the floor removed.
 

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Minor update.

Thus far the biggest PITA has been the seemingly minor details of removing the sub-floor from the outside edges between the aluminum supports and the 3" screws that hold the former underbelly flooring through the sub floor into the lower and upper aluminum sill plating (for lack of a better term)

Picture shows the two supports/sill plates with remnant flooring held together with the cursed 3" screws seemingly installed by gorillas with no concept of perpendicularity because bending over is hard. ::)

 

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Yep, agree with the PITA. I chose to cut the flooring wood perpendicular to the aluminum beam. That left about 3/4 to 1" of exposed aluminum beam on which I layed the new plywood.
I pre drilled holes in the plywood with a bit slightly smaller than the wood screw I used, going thru the wood and into the aluminum beam as I wasn't sure if the wood screw would drill into the aluminum.
I screwed the plywood down onto the beam every 6 inches, fastening the plywood with wood screws with enough force to counter sink the screw head a little.
Biggest challenge was trying to keep the drill vertical and not put screws in at an angle. Lay a bead of liquid nails under the edge of the plywood to reinforce the attachment.
That was my method. You may need to chose another method.
Reggie
 
I used 1/4"x 4'x 8' plywood from Home Depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sande-Plywood-Common-1-4-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-Actual-0-205-in-x-48-in-x-96-in-479023/100073744

By the way, I only replaced the top layer of the flooring and not the entire "sandwich". The flooring on bottom of the trailer was in good shape, so I didn't have to disturb it or the bottom membrane covering.

I thought about using something thicker, but then I'd have a mismatch at the seam between the old and new since this was a partial floor repair. If I were doing an entire floor, then I think I would go with 1/2".
Also, painting the plywood with a good outdoor quality paint is a lot cheaper than trying to find thin marine grade plywood in my opinion. It's not like it will be exposed to water all the time.

The original plywood was stapled down to the aluminum joists using standard 1" steel staples. I screwed the replacement down using wood screws, spaced about 1 foot, along the long edge of the plywood. I'm a fat guy, 280 lbls, and no floor sag when I walk on the replacement flooring. Good enough for me.

I removed all of the old vinyl in the trailer, up to the edges of cabinets and where I could reach under places like the slideout floor. My travel trailer has one slideout, typically called a super slideout, that has the kitchen and sofa mounted on it. It is an above the floor slide out, so there is about 18" clearance between the actual trailer floor and the bottom of the slideout. I replaced the vinyl flooring with vinyl tiles.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/12-in-x-12-in-Chaucer-Resilient-Vinyl-Tile-Flooring-45-sq-ft-case-5683C/206394140

Pretty inexpensive tiles. If you choose something like this, then be sure the super clean the floor surfaces before applying tiles. It's been 2 years since I've put them down and not one has come up. I've got an extra box of tiles just in case.

Sorry for the long post. I know you asked only about the plywood but I included other info just in case.
Good luck with the repair.
Reggie
 
Not much to report, sadly.

Work has been very busy, and the next stretch requires multiple days to replace the floor, since the entire remaining shell will be compromised by with no attachments to the main frame.

The underbelly membrane has been a serious hassle to find.  Everyone that clams to have it really doesn't, and wants me to wait up to three weeks to receive it.  Pretty soon I'm going to say to hell with it and coat the underbelly with something and forget the membrane, which in reality would probably be the better way to go.

I did scrape and paint the frame since it was exposed and the best time to do it.  Didn't really need it, but what the heck.....it's only money. ::)


ETA:

I do think any leaks from the passenger side were coming from the door.  The seal looked good and nothing looked disturbed, but since I removed it and sealed it over with plastic i have not seen any water issues from rain or tests.

The drivers side remains a mystery.
 
Need some advice.

The original floor design had the top floor laminate between the lower and upper aluminum frame (driver and passenger side only).  The entire mess was then attached by 3" screws from the bottom board through both frame members securing the camper shell to the lower frame.

See attached sketch.

From a practical stand point I would think the only reason this was done was for ease of manufacturing.
Attaching a new floor between the two aluminum beams is proving to be a real complicated problem with no current realistic solution.  Keep in mind the lower floor and foam insulation would have to be in place at this point making lifting/jacking/shimming the shell to allow the floor to be placed difficult to impossible.  Not to mention the fiberglass wall is lower than any of it, which makes sliding it in from the outside difficult at best.

The original sections between the beams were removed because much of it was no good, so I wanted anything rotten gone. 

My hopeful plan is to attached the aluminum together, and add treated strips along the perimeter to attached the upper floor. 

My primary concern is whether i am changing the "engineering" by removing a buffer or cushion between the beams.  Personally I would think it would be stronger.
Secondarily the ceiling would be about 5/16 lower relative to the floor, which will cause some issues
 

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I agree with you, I think you will make it stronger. Are the ledger strips going to attach to both the upper and lower frames? Do you need supports going from one side to the other?
 
tc tom said:
I agree with you, I think you will make it stronger. Are the ledger strips going to attach to both the upper and lower frames? Do you need supports going from one side to the other?

I am concerned that the original design added some strength from side to side shifting.  Fastening them as you suggest would probably squash that concern.  The ledger strips could only connect to the lower frame.  The final floor would rest roughly flush to the lower frame and about 3/8 above the upper frame.

I have been considering screwing the supports or ledger strips from the lower frame into the wood from the outside.  One concern i have is the amount of holes through relatively thin walled extruded aluminum.
There will already be about 15 per side coming up from the bottom board through both frames to tie the shell to the lower frame, which is how it was originally fastened......shockingly.  Adding additional screws perpendicular has me a bit concerned.  Perhaps it shouldn't.  If it were all wood I wouldn't give it a moments thought.

In all probability if I use this method the inside perimeter would have treated 2x4 fastened to the bottom board.
I am already installing additional 2x4's running along the plywood seams for additional strength (perpendicular to the proposed ledger strips, and perhaps a few boxed in cross members creating a grid.

If that were all fastened together, to include the lower frame I would like to think that should tie everything pretty solid.

Good thing I'm removing a bunk and closet.  That should offset most of the added weight.

 
My guess is the original construction laid the floor over the lower frame, then the upper frame and wall was placed on top.  Like you said, mostly manufacturing convenience.  But there may be some advantage to having a buffer instead of a long stretch of direct contact between the two frames.
 
I had similar concerns when I rebuilt my trailer. It was more work but I through bolted a lot of areas. Where I did not have a backer or stiffener, like your ledger I used a fender washer that was the width of the thin gauge aluminum tube helping to keep it from collapsing  when the bolt was tightened.

Tom
 
After scratching my head a bit more I feel the shell can be jacked up and the floor replaced to the original design.
One 4x4 through the wheel wells and one 2x4 through the front appears to be doable.

I did a test run today and although a bit dicey, it seems to be plausible.

Hopefully by tomorrow the floor will be largely finished.

Then I can curse over installing the membrane.
 
Sounds like the best solution. You'll probably sleep better knowing you went all the way with the repair. There are still times when I'm towing and think back how I could have done something different during my rebuild. Then glance in the mirror just to be sure the walls are still attached to the frame. So far the whole trailer seems to be staying together.

Happy camping, Tom
 

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