Are my goals reasonable?

I'm considering full timing it in an RV for a span of months, longer if I find it works out.  I've got family and friends on opposite coasts, and I've spent too much of my life indoors.  I figure I can try out app dev while I'm traveling; I'm not the sort that will be out sightseeing every day.  If I sell my condo, I'll have some buffer time to work with before I have to turn a profit.

Goals:
Live frugally, $25,000/year ballpark.
Be mobile, not be tied down to one location.
Be able to handle New England winters.
See more of the country, I spent my twenties and the first half of my thirties in offices.
Be able to work on personal coding projects, see if I can make enough on the road to sustain that lifestyle.
Have enough electricity to run a computer tower + monitor for a lot of the day, which can be a couple kWr worth.
Have enough space between RV and truck bed to stash a lot of my stuff from my current condo.

My aim is to find a used truck + used travel trailer for a combined $50,000 or less (preferably a good bit less), to try out life on the road, maybe do a bit of boondocking.  In the process I'll have moved a lot of my stuff across the country (Washington State to Connecticut); if it works out I ditch a lot of the stuff (family, goodwill, craigslist, whatever) and if it isn't working out I buy a place and move my stuff in.

Do these goals seem reasonable?

I replied to the other post you made, I think in the introduction or new forums, but I will give you my perspective on the software development aspects of full timing.

If you want to have access to the Internet, be prepared to use wireless data (cell data). From reports, WiFi at campgrounds is fair, AT BEST. You mention boondocking and if you are in an area that has no signal or weak signal, you are going to have a problem. If Internet is not a priority, you probably won't have much problem. If you are going the cell data route, it can get pretty expensive. I have done one trial of my work computer and startup ate up about 500MB of data alone. I was able to kill non-essential services and was able to work the rest of the day for about 250MB. That was a light day and used my cell phone for calls. This can get pretty expensive if left unchecked.

<StrongOpinion>
This is where I give my opinion on your work situation. It is my opinion only as a software developer for over 20 years. Personal coding projects, including my own apps in the Apple App Store, sounds like a great way of making a living independently. But in reality, not so much. Software takes a long time to build an audience unless you are willing to spend tons on marketing and help to get things off the ground. I am not saying it can't happen, but rarely does for single developers.

Call me a pessimist, but someone who goes cold turkey into something they haven't done before with an exit plan isn't really setting themselves up for success. That person is really saying "When this doesn't work out, I will be here." and won't be disappointed because they tried. I would strongly suggest what I mentioned in my other post, which is to find a job where you can work remotely and use your paycheck to finance your dream.
</StrongOpinion>

I figured, as a coder, you may appreciate the HTML tags around my obviously bias opinion. I wish you the very best of luck!

To add on here, 25K a year is REALLY frugal, in my opinion. It can be done, as others are doing it. It just depends on how long you are willing to live that lifestyle that makes it possible. You can go from Walmart to Walmart, BLM land, and truck stops to save money, but it's a tough road to do long term. Two grand a month isn't a lot for food, fuel, and some sort of entertainment.  And you will need GOOD WiFi/cell service to make that work.  I would sit down and write out a weekly budget to see the numbers on paper.  Then make your decision.

Two points, living in the NE in a trailer in the winter will be difficult and expensive (propane). Secondly, Developing an income writing, code or text, takes a long time.  I'd guess most never make it, and those that do sacrifice to get there. Been there, done that, and got several tee shirts.

OK  this is three. Living on the road on $25, 000 a year will be difficult.

Ernie

Agree with all of the above.  Personal lifestyles have widely differing monetary needs, but $25k is really tight if you expect to travel widely and do things. RV living is rarely inexpensive. You can hold down costs by parking in one place long term (and probably a inelegant place at that), but that's not what you say you want to do (nor would I). Travel means paying daily rates in RV parks plus significant fuel costs.

Whether $50k is a practical budget for a rig again depends on what rig you find acceptable for your needs. Anything beyond 'small" is going to require a substantial pick-up truck to haul it and those don't come cheap. Most will need a diesel 3/4 ton or one-ton truck for safe and comfortable towing and those get really pricey, even 10 year old ones. I think you can get a decent fulltiming rig for $50k, but probably not a lot less than that.

I can't guess what you really mean by "stashing stuff from your condo", but it's probably not going to happen. Storage space is tight in any RV, even the largest. A really big trailer is typically only about 300 sq ft, and a bed, bath, galley and living space have to fit in that. Most condos are triple or quadruple that.

And Moebius is right on about about independent software work. If you already have a software job, or at least some existing clients who come to you for upgrades and new stuff, you can probably continue that on the road. If you are hoping to move up from personal coding to professional, it's going to be tough. And figure on $120-$150 per month for cellular internet service. I use 200-300 MB per day and I no longer do any professional software development or consulting work.

you need to get out and visit a lot of RVs to develop a feel for what is available and the size & type that will meet your expectations. Then we can have a bit more meaningful discussion about acquisition costs.

I agree with most of what's been said, but I want to offer the following:
1) You don't want to be in NE during the winter, not just because of the cold, but because you'll be subjecting your house to salt and snow and slush every now and then, and as us New Englanders know, car engines last longer around here than car frames, body, wires, fuel lines, etc. Once you expose your RV to salted roads, the rot will begin. It's only a matter of time. My plan is to be up here (Vermont) NOW which is when it's best, then cruise out of here right after colors (early October).
2) If you are alone (meaning unmarried, no kids) then you can do 25K a year living if you boondock in National Parks, etc, for most of the year, only staying in RV Parks about 25% of the time. I can email you a detailed spreadsheet (.xls) with projected expenses and income needs (as well as asset monitoring section) if you want.
3) I would invest in solar panels and lithium ion batteries so you can provide power to your income-producing devices without running your generator and ruining the peace and quiet of where you are parked or boondocking.
4) This all assumes that you ALREADY know you have a source of income from coding.
5) Sell everything. Don't chicken out and keep things in storage. You may want to buy a piece of land in a state you like for the future, but chuck the condo and other property if you want simplicity. There's no reason a single person can't code out of a 26 or 30 foot Class C, or a 28 or 30 foot fifth wheel.  Buy do a lot of shopping and buy quality that will last. You can make this work if you listen to the insights of all the folks on this forum and the internet. Visit Youtube and type in full time RV. You'll be amazed at what's out there.
Good luck,
Frank

I sure hope your goals are reasonable because that's about what I'll have to live on in retirement as well. With no debt and staying seasonal at cheaper campgrounds, I think I can do it. I just won't travel as much as I would like. My plans for extra income will be art and music related. The last thing I want to do is sit in front of a computer in retirement unless it's to chat with the fine folks on this forum.

SargeW said:

To add on here, 25K a year is REALLY frugal, in my opinion. It can be done, as others are doing it. It just depends on how long you are willing to live that lifestyle that makes it possible. You can go from Walmart to Walmart, BLM land, and truck stops to save money, but it's a tough road to do long term. Two grand a month isn't a lot for food, fuel, and some sort of entertainment.  And you will need GOOD WiFi/cell service to make that work.  I would sit down and write out a weekly budget to see the numbers on paper.  Then make your decision.

Click to expand...

I lived full time on far less money per month without a problem.

Anchors said:

only staying in RV Parks about 25% of the time.

Click to expand...

There's also workcamping. Free spot with hookups with plenty of time left to code

Thank you all, lots to reply to here.

Moebius said:

I replied to the other post you made, I think in the introduction or new forums, but I will give you my perspective on the software development aspects of full timing.

If you want to have access to the Internet, be prepared to use wireless data (cell data). From reports, WiFi at campgrounds is fair, AT BEST. You mention boondocking and if you are in an area that has no signal or weak signal, you are going to have a problem. If Internet is not a priority, you probably won't have much problem. If you are going the cell data route, it can get pretty expensive. I have done one trial of my work computer and startup ate up about 500MB of data alone. I was able to kill non-essential services and was able to work the rest of the day for about 250MB. That was a light day and used my cell phone for calls. This can get pretty expensive if left unchecked.

<StrongOpinion>
This is where I give my opinion on your work situation. It is my opinion only as a software developer for over 20 years. Personal coding projects, including my own apps in the Apple App Store, sounds like a great way of making a living independently. But in reality, not so much. Software takes a long time to build an audience unless you are willing to spend tons on marketing and help to get things off the ground. I am not saying it can't happen, but rarely does for single developers.

Call me a pessimist, but someone who goes cold turkey into something they haven't done before with an exit plan isn't really setting themselves up for success. That person is really saying "When this doesn't work out, I will be here." and won't be disappointed because they tried. I would strongly suggest what I mentioned in my other post, which is to find a job where you can work remotely and use your paycheck to finance your dream.
</StrongOpinion>

I figured, as a coder, you may appreciate the HTML tags around my obviously bias opinion. I wish you the very best of luck!

Click to expand...

I've got a 20gb plan from Cricket (a rebrand of ATT) at present, and would supplement that with some sort of pay-as-I-go option on the Verizon network so I have as much coverage as is practical short of pricey satellite data.  Which I'd consider too, but wouldn't really mesh with my goal of frugality.

I think your assessment of the monetary potential of hitting the road and doing some app dev on an ad hoc basis is accurate.  I think I'm okay with that, I've already spent my most athletic years with my ass wedged in a desk chair, I don't want to spend more time trading my life for trade markers unless I really have to.  I have the good fortune that the work I previously did was lucrative, so I have some wealth I can choose to spend on some not-fiscally-optimal years, so long as I remain frugal.  Also, I came up doing C/C++/C# and I think it'd be good for me to train myself up in other areas, and if I came away from some months or years of RVing with not so much money but lots of good experiences and a wider repertoire, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

Also, doing some amount of development serves to answer the question of 'what I do'.  I don't want to be all "Eh, this and that" when asked by people who expect a firm answer for whatever reason.

SargeW said:

To add on here, 25K a year is REALLY frugal, in my opinion. It can be done, as others are doing it. It just depends on how long you are willing to live that lifestyle that makes it possible. You can go from Walmart to Walmart, BLM land, and truck stops to save money, but it's a tough road to do long term. Two grand a month isn't a lot for food, fuel, and some sort of entertainment.  And you will need GOOD WiFi/cell service to make that work.  I would sit down and write out a weekly budget to see the numbers on paper.  Then make your decision.

Click to expand...

Ernie n Tara said:

Two points, living in the NE in a trailer in the winter will be difficult and expensive (propane). Secondly, Developing an income writing, code or text, takes a long time.  I'd guess most never make it, and those that do sacrifice to get there. Been there, done that, and got several tee shirts.

OK  this is three. Living on the road on $25, 000 a year will be difficult.

Click to expand...

I'm setting an aggressive goal at $25,000 a year, but I think the numbers are there.  At present I expend about $3,800 a month, over two thousand of which goes into mortgage, HOA fees, property taxes, utilities, and my current car lease.  That leaves a bit under $1,500 or so in budgeted per-month expenses, of which some can be cut; I spend a lot more on nice foods right now than I need to, the Costco chili is fine too, and there's lot of good cheap meals I can cook (stews, tacos, rice dishes, etc).  No more weed once I leave Washington State, and won't need Comcast cable.  Won't need a range membership since I won't be living next to one, won't need to replenish my stock of FMJ if I'm not shooting.  I should get by pretty well on about $2,100 a month so long as my RV operation expenses are under $800 a month.

I like the idea of spending a lot of time on public land and generally roughing it for cheap.  That's the sort of thing I'm going for, the parts of the world I wanna be surrounded by. Of course, there's the question of cellphone reception...

Gonna eat and continue replies in a few ;p

It can certainly be done - I know people who live in stick houses and spend less than $2k/month (it is a frugal lifestyle, though). There are RV sites that go for $400 or so per month, all up, but you won't find them moving around a lot. And camping on free public land is fine until you need electric and sewer. But that can be managed too, if you want to do it badly enough. You seem to have your head on straight about finances, so start looking at RVs and see what looks like it will suit you.

PS: I retired from big company software development before age 50 myself, so am sympathetic to your view!

Gary RV Roamer said:

Agree with all of the above.  Personal lifestyles have widely differing monetary needs, but $25k is really tight if you expect to travel widely and do things. RV living is rarely inexpensive. You can hold down costs by parking in one place long term (and probably a inelegant place at that), but that's not what you say you want to do (nor would I). Travel means paying daily rates in RV parks plus significant fuel costs.

Whether $50k is a practical budget for a rig again depends on what rig you find acceptable for your needs. Anything beyond 'small" is going to require a substantial pick-up truck to haul it and those don't come cheap. Most will need a diesel 3/4 ton or one-ton truck for safe and comfortable towing and those get really pricey, even 10 year old ones. I think you can get a decent fulltiming rig for $50k, but probably not a lot less than that.

I can't guess what you really mean by "stashing stuff from your condo", but it's probably not going to happen. Storage space is tight in any RV, even the largest. A really big trailer is typically only about 300 sq ft, and a bed, bath, galley and living space have to fit in that. Most condos are triple or quadruple that.

And Moebius is right on about about independent software work. If you already have a software job, or at least some existing clients who come to you for upgrades and new stuff, you can probably continue that on the road. If you are hoping to move up from personal coding to professional, it's going to be tough. And figure on $120-$150 per month for cellular internet service. I use 200-300 MB per day and I no longer do any professional software development or consulting work.

you need to get out and visit a lot of RVs to develop a feel for what is available and the size & type that will meet your expectations. Then we can have a bit more meaningful discussion about acquisition costs.

Click to expand...

That's my aim over the next couple months, research and view RVs and trucks.  I've been happy living in cramped quarters before, so I'm not particularly worried on that specific account, but I've never lived with the other quirks and limitations of RVs.

Regarding trucks, I don't really know them, here's the sort of truck I've been eying strictly on research:  http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/5692656359.html .  Am I on the right track?  Are there towing features I need to look that aren't standard for large-ish diesel pick-ups like this?  If I could get a good truck for <20,000 that would leave me a ceiling of around 30,000 for the trailer itself, and there's at least lots to pick from in that range; I was initially looking well cheaper than 30k since this is a first effort.

Regarding 'stuff', it's the profusion of excess stuff I've accumulated over the last decade of having lots of house space.  A lot of nice-ish things bought to fill the place out or to justify the effort I was putting into work, some sentimental things accumulated through childhood.  I'm in the process of divesting myself of stuff, I've donated most of my books, am craigslisting the electronics I never use, donating excess household stuffs.  I'm still gonna have some left over, accumulated things that are useful and worth not discarding or selling, and some of it won't be useful in a RV.  So, I'll have boxed up stuff, and it would be nice if I could put it in a truck bed with a cover over it, or the storage area of a toy hauler.  It's not necessary though, I could ship such things if need be.

Of course, that presumes a truck without a 5th wheel mount in the bed.  If a 5th wheel were the way to go I wouldn't have that space.  Speaking of which, how big a deal is getting the receptacle for a 5th wheel mounted on a truck?

Anchors said:

I agree with most of what's been said, but I want to offer the following:
1) You don't want to be in NE during the winter, not just because of the cold, but because you'll be subjecting your house to salt and snow and slush every now and then, and as us New Englanders know, car engines last longer around here than car frames, body, wires, fuel lines, etc. Once you expose your RV to salted roads, the rot will begin. It's only a matter of time. My plan is to be up here (Vermont) NOW which is when it's best, then cruise out of here right after colors (early October).
2) If you are alone (meaning unmarried, no kids) then you can do 25K a year living if you boondock in National Parks, etc, for most of the year, only staying in RV Parks about 25% of the time. I can email you a detailed spreadsheet (.xls) with projected expenses and income needs (as well as asset monitoring section) if you want.
3) I would invest in solar panels and lithium ion batteries so you can provide power to your income-producing devices without running your generator and ruining the peace and quiet of where you are parked or boondocking.
4) This all assumes that you ALREADY know you have a source of income from coding.
5) Sell everything. Don't chicken out and keep things in storage. You may want to buy a piece of land in a state you like for the future, but chuck the condo and other property if you want simplicity. There's no reason a single person can't code out of a 26 or 30 foot Class C, or a 28 or 30 foot fifth wheel.  Buy do a lot of shopping and buy quality that will last. You can make this work if you listen to the insights of all the folks on this forum and the internet. Visit Youtube and type in full time RV. You'll be amazed at what's out there.

Click to expand...

1.  Serious problems, but I'll be seeing family over the holidays one way or another.  How much do you think I could mitigate this issue by avoiding travel in New England during the winter, just getting in and out for the holiday season on clear days ?  Do you think the corrosion issues are bad enough that it'd be worth parking the RV somewhere to the south and driving up north?

2.  Yup, it's just me, and that sounds like the sort of thing I would benefit from tremendously.  My name at gmx.com will work, just made it.

3.  Agreed, on multiple counts.  Not only for the benefits, but because the other thing I've debated doing next is a small scale solar installation.  Electricity prices are crazy back east; I'd like to have some practical experience utilizing a solar/inverter/battery system.  One of the things I've been looking at on RVs is the roofs, how practical mounting some serious solar would be given the layout of skylights and vents.  Though I also wonder if a deployable of some sort would make more sense.

4.  I'm willing to live off savings for a year or three in the interest of doing something genuinely interesting with myself and not letting my ass get any more chair shaped... or my mind any more office-shaped.

5.  In spirit that's what I'm going for, but there's also an issue of pragmatism.  Re-selling, I'm not going to get value on a lot of these things, and there's stuff like art that has little monetary value but which I would like to keep.  But yeah, I aim to ditch as much of my stuff as I can manage.

Sun2Retire said:

There's also workcamping. Free spot with hookups with plenty of time left to code

Click to expand...

What sort of terms do people do workcamping on?

Yes, that's the sort of truck you would want for a nice 5W or TT. Whether it is right for a specific trailer would remain to be seen. One like that probably has all the desired equipment except a 5W hitch or the WD hitch for a TT (travel trailer).

Anchors said:

2) If you are alone (meaning unmarried, no kids) then you can do 25K a year living if you boondock in National Parks, etc, for most of the year, only staying in RV Parks about 25% of the time. I can email you a detailed spreadsheet (.xls) with projected expenses and income needs (as well as asset monitoring section) if you want.

Click to expand...

Thank you for forwarding all this information, though I've only just started to read through and look at the links, it looks very useful.

Gary RV Roamer said:

Yes, that's the sort of truck you would want for a nice 5W or TT. Whether it is right for a specific trailer would remain to be seen. One like that probably has all the desired equipment except a 5W hitch or the WD hitch for a TT (travel trailer).

Click to expand...

Cool, time for me to do some reading on hitches (and hauling in general).

boredcoder said:

I'm still gonna have some left over

Click to expand...

Getting rid of stuff is not easy - we've all went thru it.  Just remember to go thru the stuff you keep about once a year.  Each time I do this I find more things that I look at and say "why in the world did I keep that?"  It took me several tries to get my pile of "keep" small enough that it would all fit into my coach and it was STUFFED.  I've eliminate a great of those things now.  I've heard stories of some folks that pay $100/month storage for ten years for things they could not part with.  They return to find a bunch of junk that they end up tossing out (that cost them $12,000 to keep).  Not everyone... obviously...

boredcoder said:

I'd like to have some practical experience utilizing a solar/inverter/battery system.  One of the things I've been looking at on RVs is the roofs, how practical mounting some serious solar would be given the layout of skylights and vents.  Though I also wonder if a deployable of some sort would make more sense.

Click to expand...

Background: 650 watt solar system that I installed myself and cost less than $1,300 - it provides all the electrical power I need (fulltimer). Lots of folks like to make solar complicated and terribly expensive.  It does not have to be either. Of course, everyone's location/need/scenario is different.  Here is some reading.

http://jdfinley.com/is-solar-power-for-you/
http://jdfinley.com/solar-charging-system-take-two/

boredcoder said:

What sort of terms do people do workcamping on?

Click to expand...

"Workcamping" is a term used to mostly describe folks that "work" as campground hosts.  They usually keep track of who is there, do basic maintenance/cleaning, maybe collect fees, etc...  In return, they typically get their spot and full hookups for free (well, in exchange for their work).  Obviously, many variations of that but that's the general idea.  There are some other "styles" of workcamping that include being a gate guard, following various harvest's around and working as a laborer (generally), and so forth.

boredcoder said:

1.  Serious problems, but I'll be seeing family over the holidays one way or another.  How much do you think I could mitigate this issue by avoiding travel in New England during the winter, just getting in and out for the holiday season on clear days ?  Do you think the corrosion issues are bad enough that it'd be worth parking the RV somewhere to the south and driving up north?

Click to expand...

Road salt is not desirable, but it's not lethal in small doses and can be mitigated by thorough washing.  I think a bigger problem is where you'll park your RV.  There are very few RV parks in New England that are open in the winter.  Many close after Labor Day, and almost all of the rest close after Columbus Day.

boredcoder said:

I spend a lot more on nice foods right now than I need to, the Costco chili is fine too,

Click to expand...

Costco and fulltime RVing are a problematic combination.

JFNM said:

Getting rid of stuff is not easy - we've all went thru it.  Just remember to go thru the stuff you keep about once a year.  Each time I do this I find more things that I look at and say "why in the world did I keep that?"  It took me several tries to get my pile of "keep" small enough that it would all fit into my coach and it was STUFFED.  I've eliminate a great of those things now.  I've heard stories of some folks that pay $100/month storage for ten years for things they could not part with.  They return to find a bunch of junk that they end up tossing out (that cost them $12,000 to keep).  Not everyone... obviously...

Background: 650 watt solar system that I installed myself and cost less than $1,300 - it provides all the electrical power I need (fulltimer). Lots of folks like to make solar complicated and terribly expensive.  It does not have to be either. Of course, everyone's location/need/scenario is different.  Here is some reading.

http://jdfinley.com/is-solar-power-for-you/
http://jdfinley.com/solar-charging-system-take-two/

"Workcamping" is a term used to mostly describe folks that "work" as campground hosts.  They usually keep track of who is there, do basic maintenance/cleaning, maybe collect fees, etc...  In return, they typically get their spot and full hookups for free (well, in exchange for their work).  Obviously, many variations of that but that's the general idea.  There are some other "styles" of workcamping that include being a gate guard, following various harvest's around and working as a laborer (generally), and so forth.

Click to expand...

I'm doing the getting-rid-of-stuff part now and yeah, it's surprisingly hard.  A whole lot of the stuff I have is useful things that I only need occasionally, and I cringe at the thought of re-buying what I already bought once.  Binning the stuff that was sentimental when I last moved but which mostly sat in boxes since has been easy in comparison.

Thanks for the links, interesting reading.  I'd probably aim for a bigger system with the degree on which I depend on having a running computer, but not by that much I suppose.

Trivet said:

Road salt is not desirable, but it's not lethal in small doses and can be mitigated by thorough washing.  I think a bigger problem is where you'll park your RV.  There are very few RV parks in New England that are open in the winter.  Many close after Labor Day, and almost all of the rest close after Columbus Day.

Costco and fulltime RVing are a problematic combination.

Click to expand...

In what sense, the impracticality of buying large volumes of single items and not having places to store them while they're used up?

New England RV parks being closed during the winter season, I can see being a challenge.  Definitely another advantage to going truck+trailer rather than a single machine, I can spend the holiday season with family without having my house with me.