Towing Doubles

[ADubois]

I've read where it's not legal here in California for a pickup to tow doubles. My question is, are the laws different for a fifth wheel than for a goose neck for towing doubles. Last night I was driving down highway 99 in central Calif. and there was a pickup towing a large horse trailer with an average size cargo trailer behind it.
I've got no interest in doing this myself I'm just curious.
Alan

[Superduty17]

Alan, I have been told that in California you can tow a trailer behind a 5th or Goose, but you must have a Class A license. You might want to check with the CA DMV for specifics.

Not sure if I would want to do it, but I have seen quite a few folks doing it over the past few years.

Good Luck

[Carl L]

Let's try to settle this thing once and for all, or at least for a while.

The CA DMV web site says:    No passenger vehicle, pickup truck, or RV may tow more than one other vehicle without a Commercial Class A license, with endorsement.

Commercial Class A license ?  Well you can get one if you are a CA resident if you pass a medical exam, a law test, and a driving test with the vehicle you would tow.  I recommend a truckers' school to learn.  Then you have to get an additional, double tow endorsement for the license.  All that requires is a driving exam under double tow.   

But I suspect, you ain't gonna do that.  So you cannot double tow in CA. 

[Shayne]

Also have a length limit.

[Alaskansnowbirds]

Carl,

Alan mentioned that it was a horse trailer w/cargo trailer.

Does CA. have any exceptions for agriculture equipment in the DMV code? I know here in AZ there are some.

Just curious.

[Carl L]

The DMV says:

The most common class of license in California is a basic Class C driver license. With a Class C license, you may drive the following motor vehicles or recreational vehicles (RVs) without any additional endorsements:

A vehicle with two axles that has a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 pounds or less
A three-axle vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or less
Any housecar (motorhome) or RV 40 feet long or less
The above includes all passenger cars, pickup trucks, and SUVs, as well as most trailers and RVs.

If you are a farmer or the employee of a farmer, you may also drive:

Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight of 26,000 pounds or less if used exclusively for agriculture and not for hire

[ADubois]

The DMV says:

If you are a farmer or the employee of a farmer, you may also drive:

Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight of 26,000 pounds or less if used exclusively for agriculture and not for hire[/i]

I don't know how heavy that set up was that I saw but depending on how many horses he had and whatever was in the cargo trailer he could have been over 26k lbs.

As far as settling this once and for all I wasn't trying to cause any problems I was just curious. I only asked because I know this topic has been talked about and the answers I've read to the topic have been very knowledgeable on this site. I have no desire to do all that testing as I said in my original post. I was just wondering if there were different rules for goose neck trailers than regular fifth wheels.

Thank you for the answers to my question.
Alan

[Carl L]

. I was just wondering if there were different rules for goose neck trailers than regular fifth wheels.

Nope, not unless you are a farmer.

Buy a farm, tow doubles. 

[AJones]

I did some research on this topic a little while back and found that the only thing permitted to be towed behind a fifth-wheel trailer is a boat.  I know it makes no sense but, that was it.  I have seen several fiver's towing boats that are heavier than my little Honda CRV.  In addition, there is a 65 foot limit on  the rig.  If you see anyone towing longer setups or a fiver pulling a car they could be pulled over.  Now whether a police officer wants to bother with this type of violation is another story.

Tony

[Carl L]

I did some research on this topic a little while back and found that the only thing permitted to be towed behind a fifth-wheel trailer is a boat. 

Yup, fairly common in the middle west.   However, it is entirely dependent on the states and varies widely from state to state.   Do your research for each state you would tow in.

[acokeday]

I towed a 29 foot fifth wheel with a Chevy 2500 HD crew cab pick up and pulled a 12 foot toy car trailer about 14,000 miles in '06.  Towed from my home in TN to Yuma, AZ and north to Seattle and then back to TN.  I am less than 65 feet long, have brakes on middle unit and the tag along weighs less than 2000 lbs. and all legal in TN.   I was passed by numerous law enforcement officers, and was never stopped.  I stopped counting at 50, the other rigs towing doubles.  I can pull through almost any gas station etc.  JUST DON'T BACK UP.  It works well for me, but I know it is not for everyone.  Alan

[Ron]

You did leave yourself open for a very expensive ticket and  storage costs if you were towing illegally in any of the states you traveled in, not to mention the risk of severe liability issues if you had been in an accident even if not at fault.  Double towing is not covered under the recipical aggreements between states only divers license.

[Shayne]

That type of towing puts a big sign on the unit   FINE ME CUZ I GOT MONEY TO BURN.

[okiejoe]

OK, I am a retired commercial truck driver and own a 34 ft 5er and asked a California HP this question, Here is what he said YOU MUST have a valid Class A with combination endorsement (you won't need the air brake endorsement unless you have air brakes) a vehicle 3/4 ton of larger and yes you may pull more that a boat behind it But it would be wise to always make your last unit be the less of weight. Oh, Yes you must stay within the lenght limit.

[Carl L]

OK, I am a retired commercial truck driver and own a 34 ft 5er and asked a California HP this question, Here is what he said YOU MUST have a valid Class A with combination endorsement (you won't need the air brake endorsement unless you have air brakes) a vehicle 3/4 ton of larger and yes you may pull more that a boat behind it But it would be wise to always make your last unit be the less of weight. Oh, Yes you must stay within the lenght limit.

Yes indeed.   I would also that California has 2 types of Class A licenses.   The non-commercial   type is designed for big motorhomes and big trailer hauling by RVers.  They cannot tow multiple trailers.   The commercial kind is probably the one you had and can so tow with the endorsement.

[okiejoe]

Yes, you are right. California does have a special license for heavey rv's and motor coaches. Since I drove heavy truck (Doubles) for UPS for 33 years (in Sacramento) I had to have a class A plus an endorsement for combination trailers and air brake endorsement too. My licenses is the typical CDL which is a federal license now (they are no longer controlled by the state) and since my retirement to Oklahoma (hence the okiejoe handle) I have kept it valid just In case I want to supplement my pension some. Well I stop rambling but anyway I am relativity new to rv forum and really like it. you all are so willing to give advice and information. maybe I'll meet some of the forum in the future.

 

[okiejoe]

Carl
Just one thing, the Commercial license (CDL) is a federal license and anyone resident or not of California would have to have it. The only endorsement you would need would be the combination endorsement.

[Carl L]

Carl
Just one thing, the Commercial license (CDL) is a federal license and anyone resident or not of California would have to have it. The only endorsement you would need would be the combination endorsement.

CDL is a common acronym  for California Drivers License in the state. 

The state of California issues  4 levels of drivers licenses:  C, B, A, and M.   C is the basic drivers license for cars and house trailers.   B and A licenses are for for heavier or longer vehicles.  The A license is typically the commercial truckers license tho there are non-commercial versions available for folks driving monster 5 wheels rated over 15,000 lbs and TTs over 10,000 lbs.  The there is a non-commercial Class B for folks in motorhomes between 40 and 45 feet.  There is even a commercial Class C for folks driving light vehicles but with hazmat placard.  M is for motorcycles.

The full scoop is HERE.

[Alaskansnowbirds]

My licenses is the typical CDL which is a federal license now (they are no longer controlled by the state)......

When did they change it to a federal license? Where do you get one? I gave mine up in '99 because Alaska wanted $100 to renew one. Back then it was still a state license.

[Carl L]

When did they change it to a federal license? Where do you get one? I gave mine up in '99 because Alaska wanted $100 to renew one. Back then it was still a state license.

Here is the straight scoop http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/cdl/cdl.htm

It would appear that the Californian licenses meet the federal requirements.

[Alaskansnowbirds]

Here is the straight scoop .......

Thanks Carl. From what okiejoe wrote I thought they changed something. He is misstating when he says it's a "Federal License". There is no such thing. Only state licenses that meet and conform with the Federal minimum standards.

[Ron]

That is what I was thinking since you have to go to the state where you got the CDL to get it renewed and in the case of Texas you have to show up in person at the DMV.  Can't renew a CDL on line.

[dirtdr]

in alberta i can tow my 43 foot long fifth wheel with my 16 foot utility trailer behind with a f-450 pickup legally. I stopped in at the weigh scales for commercial vehicles to make sure. I was a little nervous to pull in as i am a professional truck driver and i know how the DOT can nit pick any little thing they can find to pull a trucker off the road.

Overall length of my unit is 81 feet. it is quite the site to see cruising around within a town like that, taking turns and such.

I can pull both trailers legally throughout canada with my big rigs, but i have to deal with log books and pull into every weigh scale/inspection facility.

note the above caution: DO NOT TRY TO BACK UP!!!! the combination of short truck, long trailer, short trailer is an absolute bear if you have to back her up. Once I was forced to unhook the small trailer and turn around the rig and then spin the trailer around by hand to hook it up again and go the other way.

[Ron]

I wouldn't recommend trying to drive thatr combination through most states here in the US.  Not too many states allow 81 ft.

[Carl L]

I wouldn't recommend trying to drive thatr combination through most states here in the US.  Not too many states allow 81 ft.

California for one will demand a class A, commercial drivers license with a special endorsement.   I suspect they honor other state's licenses, but I do not know about Canadian tickets

Furthermore,  "passenger" vehicles cannot tow doubles period. 

[dirtdr]

I wouldn't recommend trying to drive thatr combination through most states here in the US.  Not too many states allow 81 ft.

after towing this combination only about 1000miles within Alberta, i honestly would not reccomend anyone towing this combination at all - anywhere. the large overhang on the 5er makes for a little bit crazy ride when you get into rougher road. And try to get into a wal-mart parking lot with it - well getting in is usually ok, but then to get out .It just surprises me that it was actually legal. I do in fact have what is called a class 1 licence here (I can drive any vehicle with the exception of some specialty rigs) but any joe shmoe with a class 5 (standard drivers licence) can hop behind the wheel of my f-450 with  both trailers. A little scary really.
It is very common here to see 36-41 foot fifth wheels with a boat or cargo trailer behind them here - towed with a f-250!!!

[Carl L]

after towing this combination only about 1000miles within Alberta, i honestly would not reccomend anyone towing this combination at all - anywhere. the large overhang on the 5er makes for a little bit crazy ride when you get into rougher road. And try to get into a wal-mart parking lot with it - well getting in is usually ok, but then to get out .It just surprises me that it was actually legal. I do in fact have what is called a class 1 licence here (I can drive any vehicle with the exception of some specialty rigs) but any joe shmoe with a class 5 (standard drivers licence) can hop behind the wheel of my f-450 with  both trailers. A little scary really.
It is very common here to see 36-41 foot fifth wheels with a boat or cargo trailer behind them here - towed with a f-250!!!

As I said, California makes class-A commercial license holders get a special double tow endorsement for their license.  However, in the driving portion the DMV does not want the examinee to bring a double tow to the test -- too damn dangerous.    The state will not allow the non-commercial class-A license holders, the ones towing over 15K lbs, to tow doubles at all. 

[MLCBFarrell]

Our daughter and I were surprised to see somebody pulling doubles up ahead of us a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately, we were making a turn so we couldn't see more, but it was a truck pulling about a 34'  fifth wheel, with a decent sized fishing boat (one with the center cockpit that you can walk around) behind that! We live in VA, looked like the boat may have had MD tags but of course we couldn't be sure. It was the second time I've seen someone towing double in the 7 years we've lived in the area. The first time we saw it, the combo was a pick-up with a pop-up camper, towing a small boat.

I don't think I'd want to try something like that, towing one trailer is enough adventure for my blood!

[jacksd3]

Sorry to jump in late. I've been lurking for several months.

I just passed my Commercial Driver's License general skills test and eye test in the state of Massachusetts. The cost was $30 for the knowledge test plus $75 for the CDL. Each endorsement test is $30. The CDL needs to be renewed every two years at a cost of $75. Sounds pricey to me especially since I am not a professional driver just a guy towing my wife's horses around :-)

I got mine because I forsee pulling horse trailers with a GVWR of more than 10,000lbs. The GCVWR won't be more than 26,001lbs but the law is a bit vague and I want to err on the side of caution.

Also, with a couple of endorsements I can fill in for the local school bus driver :-)

[bobofthenorth]

Overall length of my unit is 81 feet. it is quite the site to see cruising around within a town like that, taking turns and such.

Just to prevent someone else from getting in trouble - the above rig IS NOT legal throughout Canada.  I think he is actually overlength in Alberta, definitely he is in SK & MB.  Recreational doubles - which is what these rigs are called in Canada are not legal in BC but are OK in AB, SK & MB.  Don't know about the east.  In the provinces where they are legal they are still subject to overall length restrictions which are commonly either 75 or 65 feet.  As the poster has noted in a subsequent post, these rigs are a genuine PITA to drive and may be dangerous with the wrong combination of pin weights and overhangs.  I've driven them - never enjoyed the experience - and I'm glad I don't do it anymore.  It is possible to back them up but that is a major adventure as well.