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Author Topic: The right to vote  (Read 4564 times)

Tom

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The right to vote
« on: October 12, 2016, 06:15:08 PM »
Per our forum rules and the wishes of our forum members, I/we don't discuss politics here. But, today we received our absentee ballots in the mail; Makes it easy to participate while we travel.

As (legal) immigrants, our voting rights were granted when we became naturalized citizens in the Reagan era. The last thing the judge told the room when we went through the wonderful naturalization ceremony was "go out and exercise your right to vote".

Please don't ask who I/we will vote for, and don't suggest or impose your own preferences. That would get this topic shut down in a hurry. Thanks.
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utahclaimjumper

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2016, 06:30:09 PM »
 It really doesn't matter much with the silly (and rigged) electorial system we use.>>>Dan (I'm not talking politics here, I'm talking about the SYSTEM of politics)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 06:33:21 PM by utahclaimjumper »
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Tom

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2016, 06:38:05 PM »
I'm talking about our fundamental right to vote, which is not enjoyed by folks in all countries. Even in the democratic homeland of the UK, we experienced ballot rigging in the 60's.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 03:46:52 PM by Tom »
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Paul & Ann

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 06:46:20 PM »
We will be on our way south on election day, but our county(and state) has early voting satellite sites that open next Monday, so we will be voting next week.  We could have also received absentee ballots, but this will be easier.
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John From Detroit

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 07:08:53 PM »
Where as UtahClaimJumper.. Even though I agree about the system being Rigged, I think it does matter.
And respecting Tom's wishes, that is as far as I will go with this.

VOTE: if you do not vote you are not allowed to complain about how it turns out. If your guy Looses you can say "I told you so" If your guy wins. Live with it.. Guy is generic, can be a woman.
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utahclaimjumper

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2016, 07:11:23 PM »
 I have never mailed my vote ,,as an "old school voter" I enjoy going to the polls and casting.>>>D And I get a sticker that says I voted)
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Rene T

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2016, 07:12:41 PM »
Where as UtahClaimJumper.. Even though I agree about the system being Rigged, I think it does matter.
And respecting Tom's wishes, that is as far as I will go with this.

VOTE: if you do not vote you are not allowed to complain about how it turns out. If your guy Looses you can say "I told you so" If your guy wins. Live with it.. Guy is generic, can be a woman.

I saw a sign the other day that said "if you don't vote and you can, it means you don't count". 
Hope everyone votes. We did last week by absentee ballot.
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utahclaimjumper

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2016, 07:15:47 PM »
 I particularly don't like the electoral colledge because its made up of "professional politicians" which we could do nicely without.>>>D
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Tom

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2016, 07:38:27 PM »
Quote
I enjoy going to the polls and casting.>>>D And I get a sticker that says I voted

We've received our "I voted" stickers numerous times, but our travel schedule the last few years has made it tough to get to a polling booth. So the absentee ballot made sense for us.

When I was a kid back in the home country, my Dad used to volunteer to work at the polling centres.
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NY_Dutch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2016, 08:29:43 PM »
We like to get the "I voted" stickers when we vote near our upstate NY cottage. Our favorite local diner gives out free coffee or tea to anyone wearing one on election day.  ;D
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RoyM

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2016, 08:30:56 PM »
I firmly believe it is a citizen's responsibility to vote, millions have fought and died to obtain and preserve that privilege. We don't always get the result we want but however imperfect it is the best system  we have come up with so far to ensure our freedom. If we don't we get the government we deserve
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Tom

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2016, 08:32:23 PM »
Well said Roy.
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Tom

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2016, 08:34:15 PM »
Since the UK has copied so many US-related things, maybe they'll start the "I voted" decal tradition  ???

 ;D
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 11:15:56 AM by Tom »
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Paul & Ann

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2016, 08:35:48 PM »
Where as UtahClaimJumper.. Even though I agree about the system being Rigged, I think it does matter.

Even though I believe that the Electoral College isnt purfect, can you imagine, or ever thought about what a mess it would be if we went to a direct vote?
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Tom

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2016, 08:41:15 PM »
LOL Paul, that's how the UK electoral process works. Brits and other "overseas members" don't understand the electoral college system/process.
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Paul & Ann

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2016, 08:44:16 PM »
LOL Paul, that's how the UK electoral process works. Brits and other "overseas members" don't understand the electoral college system/process.

Do they have direct vote in England?
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RoyM

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2016, 09:06:27 PM »
It is 'first past the post', we have the same system. The party that gets the most seats in  Parliament, the equivalent of your Congress, forms the government with it's leader becoming Prime Minister. I don't really understand the rationale behind your electoral college.
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Theboomanchu

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2016, 11:59:58 PM »
VOTE: if you do not vote you are not allowed to complain about how it turns out. If your guy Looses you can say "I told you so" If your guy wins. Live with it.. Guy is generic, can be a woman.

I very much disagree with this sentiment.  If there is no one running that stands for what I believe, then casting a vote for 'the lesser of two evils" is not being true to myself or what this country stands for (or did at one time)  I very much have the right to complain even if I don't vote.  The only thing I would be doing by voting would be to vote against the candidate I hate the least.  The two party system has failed me as an American Citizen.  I would love to vote, but only if I had someone to VOTE FOR!!!
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dave54

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2016, 12:03:41 AM »
It is 'first past the post', we have the same system. The party that gets the most seats in  Parliament, the equivalent of your Congress, forms the government with it's leader becoming Prime Minister. I don't really understand the rationale behind your electoral college.

As you realize now the President is selected separately from Congress, so the President could be (and frequently is) a different political party from the majority party of Congress.  This prevents one political party from having all the power.  It also can lead to political gridlock where nothing gets accomplished. (IMHO, not necessarily a bad thing.  If it isn't broke don't try to fix it.)
The electoral college was a compromise, and I believe it still serves a good purpose.  The EC gives more rural and lesser populated states somewhat greater leverage in the Presidential election than their low population would otherwise have, and the more populous states a somewhat lesser leverage.  This prevents a handful of populous urban states from totally dominating the national political process and forces the candidates to at least pay some attention to the rest of the country, while still maintaining majority rule.
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dave54

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2016, 12:11:07 AM »
I very much disagree with this sentiment.  If there is no one running that stands for what I believe, then casting a vote for 'the lesser of two evils" is not being true to myself or what this country stands for (or did at one time)  I very much have the right to complain even if I don't vote.  The only thing I would be doing by voting would be to vote against the candidate I hate the least.  The two party system has failed me as an American Citizen.  I would love to vote, but only if I had someone to VOTE FOR!!!

X2.  You do not have to be an enabler by voting for a candidate you still find objectionable just because the other candidate is more objectionable.  You should still vote, though.  You can leave one section of the ballot blank and still vote for the remainder of the issues and local races.  Or you can cast an entirely blank ballot.
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Arch Hoagland

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2016, 12:36:40 AM »
Whenever a young person in our family, or a friend of the family, turns 18 I give them a voter registration form.

I tell them I don't care who they vote for, just so they study the issues and vote. And I check up on them to get their input on various candidates and issues. 

I also tell them to NOT put their phone number on the form. I did a lot of research on that matter and found out that's how you get calls from people urging you to vote for so and so. The politicians are allowed to use those numbers and give them to whoever they want to.
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Old Timer

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2016, 06:46:08 AM »
I am a Vet Nam veteran and have always voted. I however never voted early. i am not a believer in early voting. If I had to vote absentee ballot like some here have stated I would wait until election day to make up my mind. Some voted in the primary and just before the election the guy they voted for dropped out so they lost there chance. Not the same for the general but still important to vote just the same.

Welcome to America Tom. So nice to have you in our country

TonyDtorch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2016, 07:29:31 AM »
I disagree Tom
as a resident of CA (and a Vietnam vet),  our current Electoral college system awards all 55 delegates to the simple majority winner....

so,   there is a guaranteed mathematical disenfranchisement factor of 49% .......thus...it's a waste of time for me to even go down and vote..   
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 07:36:38 AM by TonyDtorch »

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2016, 07:35:37 AM »
Quote
I don't really understand the rationale behind your electoral college.

As Dave54 explained, the Electoral College stems from the US being a union of 50 states rather than one amorphous country. It is designed to help balance the power of heavily populated rural states vs smaller or more rural states. Basically the EC assures that every state gets at least 3 votes for choosing a President and VP, but more populous states get more votes. Our Congressional elections work essentially the same way, balancing the power among states large & small, populous or rural.

The UK system actually does much the same. It is NOT a direct election.  Each Parliamentary district elects its Member of Parliament (MP), and the MP then chooses who he/she will support for Prime Minister. The district differ in size and population, but each gets one MP and thus one vote for a PM. It's even possible to change the PM without a new general election (this just happened).

The basic difference between the UK system and the US Electoral College is that the "Electors" in the College are elected only for the purpose of choosing a new President. They are not necessarily the serving Congress member and they have no other role once the new President is chosen.

Note that the Electoral College has no rules as to how a state chooses its Electors. That is one of hallowed our "State's Rights", stemming from the nature of the Union. Some states do "winner take all", while others apportion based on the popular vote. And most all of them give the Elector some degree of independent choice, especially if a President is not chosen on the first ballot. Again, much like the UK system where the MPs may change positions or form coalitions.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2016, 07:40:44 AM »
Gary.

I live in California,
I can tell you without any doubt which party all 55 state delegates will go to in this election....and the next election....and the next election......

« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 07:49:17 AM by TonyDtorch »

kdbgoat

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2016, 07:48:39 AM »
Gary.

this is California,
I can tell you without any doubt which party all 55 state delegates will be voting for this election....and the next election....and the next election......

And how many people not of the ruling party feel that way? Maybe if they all exercised their right to vote instead of crying "it's no use" then maybe things would change. It's not going to change unless they do.
It would be an awesome thing if every eligible voter in this country would exercise their right to vote.
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Ernie n Tara

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2016, 07:55:32 AM »
Being a resident of Texas, I'm in the same position - proportional award would be an improvement!

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TonyDtorch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2016, 08:22:19 AM »
And how many people not of the ruling party feel that way? Maybe if they all exercised their right to vote instead of crying "it's no use" then maybe things would change. It's not going to change unless they do.
It would be an awesome thing if every eligible voter in this country would exercise their right to vote.

yes it would be awesome if everything changed .....and it would also be awesome if I could hit the next super-lotto.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 08:44:24 AM by TonyDtorch »

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2016, 08:56:35 AM »

Quote
I live in California,
I can tell you without any doubt which party all 55 state delegates will go to in this election....and the next election....and the next election.....

You may be surprised to know that is only a relatively recent trend. From 1952 to 1988 (except for 1964), California was a solid republican state and Dems complained it was unfair.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Each political party has had a turn at dominating your state legislature and both have declined to change from winner take all to proportional. They both like the fact that they can get all the Electoral votes with just 51% of the voters.
Gary
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TonyDtorch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2016, 09:08:31 AM »
You may be surprised to know that is only a relatively recent trend. From 1952 to 1988 (except for 1964), California was a solid republican state and Dems complained it was unfair.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Each political party has had a turn at dominating your state legislature and both have declined to change from winner take all to proportional. They both like the fact that they can get all the Electoral votes with just 51% of the voters.

the obvious trend of voters in California would make the odds of a political swing any time soon very unlikely.
 
This year on the senatorial ticket we have a choice of a Democrat or a Democrat. 

for unknown reasons,  it appears that many republicans have "jumped ship"  ;)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 10:43:16 AM by TonyDtorch »

 

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