EPDM Coatings
rvupgradestore.com Composet Products Custom Yacht Interiors

Author Topic: The right to vote  (Read 5157 times)

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
The right to vote
« on: October 12, 2016, 06:15:08 PM »
Per our forum rules and the wishes of our forum members, I/we don't discuss politics here. But, today we received our absentee ballots in the mail; Makes it easy to participate while we travel.

As (legal) immigrants, our voting rights were granted when we became naturalized citizens in the Reagan era. The last thing the judge told the room when we went through the wonderful naturalization ceremony was "go out and exercise your right to vote".

Please don't ask who I/we will vote for, and don't suggest or impose your own preferences. That would get this topic shut down in a hurry. Thanks.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Utclmjmpr

  • ---
  • Posts: 3042
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2016, 06:30:09 PM »
 It really doesn't matter much with the silly (and rigged) electorial system we use.>>>Dan (I'm not talking politics here, I'm talking about the SYSTEM of politics)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 06:33:21 PM by utahclaimjumper »
38' American Tradition 38TT/330 turbo Cummins
Jeep liberty 4 down
72 VW Baja 4 down
Cedar City, Utah
USAF vet. 59-63
The difference between intelligence & stupidity is: intelligence has it's limits
      Albert Einstein.
President Western GM Coach chapter FMCA

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2016, 06:38:05 PM »
I'm talking about our fundamental right to vote, which is not enjoyed by folks in all countries. Even in the democratic homeland of the UK, we experienced ballot rigging in the 60's.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 03:46:52 PM by Tom »
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1441
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 06:46:20 PM »
We will be on our way south on election day, but our county(and state) has early voting satellite sites that open next Monday, so we will be voting next week.  We could have also received absentee ballots, but this will be easier.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

John From Detroit

  • ---
  • Posts: 19792
  • ^My New Home^
    • Diabetics Forum
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 07:08:53 PM »
Where as UtahClaimJumper.. Even though I agree about the system being Rigged, I think it does matter.
And respecting Tom's wishes, that is as far as I will go with this.

VOTE: if you do not vote you are not allowed to complain about how it turns out. If your guy Looses you can say "I told you so" If your guy wins. Live with it.. Guy is generic, can be a woman.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Utclmjmpr

  • ---
  • Posts: 3042
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2016, 07:11:23 PM »
 I have never mailed my vote ,,as an "old school voter" I enjoy going to the polls and casting.>>>D And I get a sticker that says I voted)
38' American Tradition 38TT/330 turbo Cummins
Jeep liberty 4 down
72 VW Baja 4 down
Cedar City, Utah
USAF vet. 59-63
The difference between intelligence & stupidity is: intelligence has it's limits
      Albert Einstein.
President Western GM Coach chapter FMCA

Rene T

  • ---
  • Posts: 10144
  • Great being on the right side of the grass
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2016, 07:12:41 PM »
Where as UtahClaimJumper.. Even though I agree about the system being Rigged, I think it does matter.
And respecting Tom's wishes, that is as far as I will go with this.

VOTE: if you do not vote you are not allowed to complain about how it turns out. If your guy Looses you can say "I told you so" If your guy wins. Live with it.. Guy is generic, can be a woman.

I saw a sign the other day that said "if you don't vote and you can, it means you don't count". 
Hope everyone votes. We did last week by absentee ballot.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

Utclmjmpr

  • ---
  • Posts: 3042
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2016, 07:15:47 PM »
 I particularly don't like the electoral colledge because its made up of "professional politicians" which we could do nicely without.>>>D
38' American Tradition 38TT/330 turbo Cummins
Jeep liberty 4 down
72 VW Baja 4 down
Cedar City, Utah
USAF vet. 59-63
The difference between intelligence & stupidity is: intelligence has it's limits
      Albert Einstein.
President Western GM Coach chapter FMCA

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2016, 07:38:27 PM »
Quote
I enjoy going to the polls and casting.>>>D And I get a sticker that says I voted

We've received our "I voted" stickers numerous times, but our travel schedule the last few years has made it tough to get to a polling booth. So the absentee ballot made sense for us.

When I was a kid back in the home country, my Dad used to volunteer to work at the polling centres.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

NY_Dutch

  • ---
  • Posts: 3472
  • Following the warm weather!
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2016, 08:29:43 PM »
We like to get the "I voted" stickers when we vote near our upstate NY cottage. Our favorite local diner gives out free coffee or tea to anyone wearing one on election day.  ;D
Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/Blue Ox base plate

RoyM

  • ---
  • Posts: 1976
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2016, 08:30:56 PM »
I firmly believe it is a citizen's responsibility to vote, millions have fought and died to obtain and preserve that privilege. We don't always get the result we want but however imperfect it is the best system  we have come up with so far to ensure our freedom. If we don't we get the government we deserve
Ram 2500 diesel
Prowler fifth wheel
Urge to travel

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2016, 08:32:23 PM »
Well said Roy.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2016, 08:34:15 PM »
Since the UK has copied so many US-related things, maybe they'll start the "I voted" decal tradition  ???

 ;D
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 11:15:56 AM by Tom »
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1441
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2016, 08:35:48 PM »
Where as UtahClaimJumper.. Even though I agree about the system being Rigged, I think it does matter.

Even though I believe that the Electoral College isnt purfect, can you imagine, or ever thought about what a mess it would be if we went to a direct vote?
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2016, 08:41:15 PM »
LOL Paul, that's how the UK electoral process works. Brits and other "overseas members" don't understand the electoral college system/process.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1441
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2016, 08:44:16 PM »
LOL Paul, that's how the UK electoral process works. Brits and other "overseas members" don't understand the electoral college system/process.

Do they have direct vote in England?
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

RoyM

  • ---
  • Posts: 1976
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2016, 09:06:27 PM »
It is 'first past the post', we have the same system. The party that gets the most seats in  Parliament, the equivalent of your Congress, forms the government with it's leader becoming Prime Minister. I don't really understand the rationale behind your electoral college.
Ram 2500 diesel
Prowler fifth wheel
Urge to travel

Theboomanchu

  • ---
  • Posts: 58
  • "We've got to keep the loonies on the path"
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2016, 11:59:58 PM »
VOTE: if you do not vote you are not allowed to complain about how it turns out. If your guy Looses you can say "I told you so" If your guy wins. Live with it.. Guy is generic, can be a woman.

I very much disagree with this sentiment.  If there is no one running that stands for what I believe, then casting a vote for 'the lesser of two evils" is not being true to myself or what this country stands for (or did at one time)  I very much have the right to complain even if I don't vote.  The only thing I would be doing by voting would be to vote against the candidate I hate the least.  The two party system has failed me as an American Citizen.  I would love to vote, but only if I had someone to VOTE FOR!!!
2010 Keystone Cougar 326MKS 5th wheel
2006 Ford F350 DRW w/ a (omg tell me it isn't so!) 6.0 Power Stroke.

dave54

  • ---
  • Posts: 179
  • Old guy. Loves being outdoors
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2016, 12:03:41 AM »
It is 'first past the post', we have the same system. The party that gets the most seats in  Parliament, the equivalent of your Congress, forms the government with it's leader becoming Prime Minister. I don't really understand the rationale behind your electoral college.

As you realize now the President is selected separately from Congress, so the President could be (and frequently is) a different political party from the majority party of Congress.  This prevents one political party from having all the power.  It also can lead to political gridlock where nothing gets accomplished. (IMHO, not necessarily a bad thing.  If it isn't broke don't try to fix it.)
The electoral college was a compromise, and I believe it still serves a good purpose.  The EC gives more rural and lesser populated states somewhat greater leverage in the Presidential election than their low population would otherwise have, and the more populous states a somewhat lesser leverage.  This prevents a handful of populous urban states from totally dominating the national political process and forces the candidates to at least pay some attention to the rest of the country, while still maintaining majority rule.
I never get lost.  I just have unplanned adventures.

dave54

  • ---
  • Posts: 179
  • Old guy. Loves being outdoors
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2016, 12:11:07 AM »
I very much disagree with this sentiment.  If there is no one running that stands for what I believe, then casting a vote for 'the lesser of two evils" is not being true to myself or what this country stands for (or did at one time)  I very much have the right to complain even if I don't vote.  The only thing I would be doing by voting would be to vote against the candidate I hate the least.  The two party system has failed me as an American Citizen.  I would love to vote, but only if I had someone to VOTE FOR!!!

X2.  You do not have to be an enabler by voting for a candidate you still find objectionable just because the other candidate is more objectionable.  You should still vote, though.  You can leave one section of the ballot blank and still vote for the remainder of the issues and local races.  Or you can cast an entirely blank ballot.
I never get lost.  I just have unplanned adventures.

Arch Hoagland

  • ---
  • Posts: 1550
  • Clovis CA
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2016, 12:36:40 AM »
Whenever a young person in our family, or a friend of the family, turns 18 I give them a voter registration form.

I tell them I don't care who they vote for, just so they study the issues and vote. And I check up on them to get their input on various candidates and issues. 

I also tell them to NOT put their phone number on the form. I did a lot of research on that matter and found out that's how you get calls from people urging you to vote for so and so. The politicians are allowed to use those numbers and give them to whoever they want to.
2004 Monaco La Palma 36 DBD
W22, 8.1 gas,  Allison 1000 Transmission
7.1 MPG over 80,000 miles

2000 Lexus RX300, 4020lb
U.S. Gear Braking System

Old Timer

  • ---
  • Posts: 35
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2016, 06:46:08 AM »
I am a Vet Nam veteran and have always voted. I however never voted early. i am not a believer in early voting. If I had to vote absentee ballot like some here have stated I would wait until election day to make up my mind. Some voted in the primary and just before the election the guy they voted for dropped out so they lost there chance. Not the same for the general but still important to vote just the same.

Welcome to America Tom. So nice to have you in our country

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2016, 07:29:31 AM »
I disagree Tom
as a resident of CA (and a Vietnam vet),  our current Electoral college system awards all 55 delegates to the simple majority winner....

so,   there is a guaranteed mathematical disenfranchisement factor of 49% .......thus...it's a waste of time for me to even go down and vote..   
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 07:36:38 AM by TonyDtorch »

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 61015
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2016, 07:35:37 AM »
Quote
I don't really understand the rationale behind your electoral college.

As Dave54 explained, the Electoral College stems from the US being a union of 50 states rather than one amorphous country. It is designed to help balance the power of heavily populated rural states vs smaller or more rural states. Basically the EC assures that every state gets at least 3 votes for choosing a President and VP, but more populous states get more votes. Our Congressional elections work essentially the same way, balancing the power among states large & small, populous or rural.

The UK system actually does much the same. It is NOT a direct election.  Each Parliamentary district elects its Member of Parliament (MP), and the MP then chooses who he/she will support for Prime Minister. The district differ in size and population, but each gets one MP and thus one vote for a PM. It's even possible to change the PM without a new general election (this just happened).

The basic difference between the UK system and the US Electoral College is that the "Electors" in the College are elected only for the purpose of choosing a new President. They are not necessarily the serving Congress member and they have no other role once the new President is chosen.

Note that the Electoral College has no rules as to how a state chooses its Electors. That is one of hallowed our "State's Rights", stemming from the nature of the Union. Some states do "winner take all", while others apportion based on the popular vote. And most all of them give the Elector some degree of independent choice, especially if a President is not chosen on the first ballot. Again, much like the UK system where the MPs may change positions or form coalitions.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2016, 07:40:44 AM »
Gary.

I live in California,
I can tell you without any doubt which party all 55 state delegates will go to in this election....and the next election....and the next election......

« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 07:49:17 AM by TonyDtorch »

kdbgoat

  • ---
  • Posts: 4210
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2016, 07:48:39 AM »
Gary.

this is California,
I can tell you without any doubt which party all 55 state delegates will be voting for this election....and the next election....and the next election......

And how many people not of the ruling party feel that way? Maybe if they all exercised their right to vote instead of crying "it's no use" then maybe things would change. It's not going to change unless they do.
It would be an awesome thing if every eligible voter in this country would exercise their right to vote.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


2016 Leprechaun 319DS

Ernie n Tara

  • ---
  • Posts: 3293
  • Life is Good - Together
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2016, 07:55:32 AM »
Being a resident of Texas, I'm in the same position - proportional award would be an improvement!

Ernie
Ernie 'n Tara

2011 Winn Journey 34y
2012 Jeep Rubicon - Dozer (orange - kinda)
2006 Jeep Wrangler

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2016, 08:22:19 AM »
And how many people not of the ruling party feel that way? Maybe if they all exercised their right to vote instead of crying "it's no use" then maybe things would change. It's not going to change unless they do.
It would be an awesome thing if every eligible voter in this country would exercise their right to vote.

yes it would be awesome if everything changed .....and it would also be awesome if I could hit the next super-lotto.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 08:44:24 AM by TonyDtorch »

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 61015
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2016, 08:56:35 AM »

Quote
I live in California,
I can tell you without any doubt which party all 55 state delegates will go to in this election....and the next election....and the next election.....

You may be surprised to know that is only a relatively recent trend. From 1952 to 1988 (except for 1964), California was a solid republican state and Dems complained it was unfair.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Each political party has had a turn at dominating your state legislature and both have declined to change from winner take all to proportional. They both like the fact that they can get all the Electoral votes with just 51% of the voters.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2016, 09:08:31 AM »
You may be surprised to know that is only a relatively recent trend. From 1952 to 1988 (except for 1964), California was a solid republican state and Dems complained it was unfair.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Each political party has had a turn at dominating your state legislature and both have declined to change from winner take all to proportional. They both like the fact that they can get all the Electoral votes with just 51% of the voters.

the obvious trend of voters in California would make the odds of a political swing any time soon very unlikely.
 
This year on the senatorial ticket we have a choice of a Democrat or a Democrat. 

for unknown reasons,  it appears that many republicans have "jumped ship"  ;)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 10:43:16 AM by TonyDtorch »

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2016, 10:13:16 AM »
Quote
Welcome to America Tom. So nice to have you in our country

Thanks. After living 36 years here, and visiting during the prior 10 years, we feel quite welcome. My one regret is not having had the opportunity to serve.

Thank you for your service.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1441
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2016, 10:17:51 AM »
I particularly don't like the electoral colledge because its made up of "professional politicians" which we could do nicely without.>>>D

I suppose you would be happy if we didnt have professional pilots flying airplanes, as well.  :)
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2016, 10:25:29 AM »
Driving down our street a couple of days ago, I was surprised, almost startled, to see signs in neighbors' yards to "Vote for xxxx". This happens to be a friend/acquaintance we've known for many years. We've never discussed politics or shared political opinions/positions, and I had to stop and read the small print on the sign; It read "... for yyyy school board".

Knowing that the lady retired from a career in school teaching, the sign now made sense. Also, knowing the individual and her characteristics, I can imagine the contribution she'll make to the school board, and she'll get my vote.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2016, 10:36:39 AM »
Quote
It is 'first past the post'...

Reminds me of the days I was unhappy with the UK electoral system; I used to tell people that local towns/villages "originally" sent their representative a couple of hundred miles to London on horseback (or mule)  ;D
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Hfx_Cdn

  • ---
  • Posts: 3176
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2016, 12:01:05 PM »
     At first I thought this was a string about our local municipal elections which take place this coming Saturday, but I see that it is about some kind of election going on down there next month.   ;)
     The discussion reminds me of discussions I used to have with my maternal grandfather.  He left Russia circa 1905 after being drafted and posted to the Japanese front.  He said that was a war that he strongly disagreed with, so he walked, stole rides on carts and otherwise sneaked his way about 500 miles to the nearest border, where he caught a train to the coast to come to Canada.  He said that by exercising his vote, he was making sure that no one would ever have the ability to start a war about a couple of virtually uninhabited islands.
     Oh by the way Roy, your post brought back Winston Churchill's comment the "Democracy is the worst system, except for all others"

Ed
Ed & Donna
Winter-Pinellas Park FL, Summer- Maritime Canada
2000 Coachmen Catalina 34' DP (owned 2004 to 2015)
2006 Jeep Liberty Toad

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2016, 01:18:33 PM »
Reminds me of the days I was unhappy with the UK electoral system; I used to tell people that local towns/villages "originally" sent their representative a couple of hundred miles to London on horseback (or mule)  ;D
Tom, are you aware of the recent turmoil going on in local city counsels around London ?   Pubs appear to be being voted out of business.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 01:32:13 PM by TonyDtorch »

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2016, 01:30:46 PM »
Quote
Tom, are you aware of the turmoil going on in city counsels near London ?

To some extent; I listen to BBC News and BBC podcasts nightly.

How did the representative on horseback know if he was getting closer to, or further away from, London? I took the attached picture of a real milestone preserved at the side of the highway on the way out of a local town. If the number went down, the rider was getting closer but, if it went up, he was going in the wrong direction  ;D
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2016, 01:42:02 PM »
In the UK, the choice of Prime Minister is independent of a general election; The leader of a political party is presumed to be PM if that party wins the election. He/she could have been leader of their respective party for years before an election. But the appointment of PM is 'officially' done by the Queen when she summonses the party leader to the palace and asks him or her to form a government.

The UK parliamentary system does not have the equivalent of our 3 branches of government and associated checks and balances. Whilst the Queen announces an agenda for the upcoming year's parliament (in her annual speech to the nation), she does not have veto power over any legislation. Meanwhile, every cabinet position is matched by a 'shadow cabinet' position; The shadow cabinet has no veto rights per se, but each member/position becomes the opposing party's "expert" on the subject area, and will/can argue with knowledge.

At least, that's how it used to work; Things might have changed since we lived there  ???
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 03:01:45 PM by Tom »
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

RoyM

  • ---
  • Posts: 1976
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2016, 02:43:07 PM »
dave54, you brought up a real problem with our parliamentary system. The number of seats are allocated roughly according to population meaning south western Quebec and southern Ontario have most of the clout. By the time Ontario polls close, the election has already been decided, the western vote only determines how much of a majority the winning party enjoys.
Your system of electing the leader separate from the representatives certainly has merit, in my opinion ours gives too much power to too few people and it gets abused but yours can lead to paralysis as has happened. There is no perfect answer.
Ram 2500 diesel
Prowler fifth wheel
Urge to travel

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2016, 06:47:14 PM »
and the same thing for CA, the winner is announced early in the day, long before noon, polls close at 5pm but because the "exit polls" always say there ain't a chance in hell,  so these 55 E/C votes are just automatically counted for the Democratic candidate... the easy winner is predicted in the news and so it is.

why even bother to vote.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 07:08:34 PM by TonyDtorch »

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1441
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2016, 07:07:18 PM »
why even bother to vote.

Down ballot candidates.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2016, 07:12:20 PM »
and then there was this "Super Delegate" thing ?    Which also sounded kinda like a "your vote don't matter" thing to me....

« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 07:35:09 PM by TonyDtorch »

hoddinron

  • ---
  • Posts: 352
    • My blog
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2016, 07:24:39 PM »

Joyce and I voted today - then we took our "mail-in" ballots directly over to the Election Supervisor's Office in our Florida County, and placed them in the drop box.

Can I stop listening to all the CRAP now?

Ron
Ron & Joyce - Retired
2012 Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2.73 axle
2016 Sabre 25 RL 5th Wheel

John From Detroit

  • ---
  • Posts: 19792
  • ^My New Home^
    • Diabetics Forum
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2016, 07:28:08 PM »
I disagree Tom
as a resident of CA (and a Vietnam vet),  our current Electoral college system awards all 55 delegates to the simple majority winner....

Actually your percentage is off a bit.. But I won't comment on that further.

Long ago, most all the states did it that way. Several (more than one) president, as a result LOST the Popular vote on the 1st Tuesday after the 1t Monday in November.. but won in the December vote (Electorial college)  I think John Kennedy was one such as I recall but.. Well, 56 years ago so the memory is a tad fuzzy there.

Many states have gone to proportional Electorial votes.  You get 60%, you get 60% of the electors from that state.

If you say Ca is not one of those states.. I won't argue, or support. for I simply do not know.

If you say you can predict how all 55 Will vote.. that is another matter... For as the 1960's song says "The Times thay are A-Changing". and I think there are going to be some serious surprises come next month.. Just who will be surprised. Remains to be determined.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

garyb1st

  • ---
  • Posts: 2131
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2016, 10:23:43 AM »
Please don't ask who I/we will vote for, and don't suggest or impose your own preferences. 

Could you at least tell us who your are not voting for.   lol
Gary B1st

2005 Pace Arrow 35G
2016 Jeep Wrangler

garyb1st

  • ---
  • Posts: 2131
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2016, 11:05:04 AM »
I wonder how many voters actually read the official voter information guide?  The California guide is 222 pages long.  Not doing a poll of Forum members but curious about the population in general. 
Gary B1st

2005 Pace Arrow 35G
2016 Jeep Wrangler

dave54

  • ---
  • Posts: 179
  • Old guy. Loves being outdoors
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2016, 11:52:50 AM »
...
Long ago, most all the states did it that way. Several (more than one) president, as a result LOST the Popular vote on the 1st Tuesday after the 1t Monday in November.. but won in the December vote (Electorial college)  I think John Kennedy was one such as I recall but.. Well, 56 years ago so the memory is a tad fuzzy there.

Many states have gone to proportional Electorial votes.  You get 60%, you get 60% of the electors from that state...


IIRC the candidate with the majority votes lost the Electoral vote three times in U.S. history -- 1824, 1876, and 2000.  The 1876 Hayes/Tilden race was especially interesting.  The EC could not reach a majority, neither could the House of Representatives.  After some closed door dealmaking among party leaders Rutherford Hayes was given the election, despite losing the popular vote.

Only two states have proportional Electoral voting -- Nebraska and Maine.  Many have talked about it, but so far the remaining 48 are winner take all.
I never get lost.  I just have unplanned adventures.

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1441
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2016, 12:35:05 PM »
IIRC the candidate with the majority votes lost the Electoral vote three times in U.S. history -- 1824, 1876, and 2000.  The 1876 Hayes/Tilden race was especially interesting.  The EC could not reach a majority, neither could the House of Representatives.  After some closed door dealmaking among party leaders Rutherford Hayes was given the election, despite losing the popular vote.

Only two states have proportional Electoral voting -- Nebraska and Maine.  Many have talked about it, but so far the remaining 48 are winner take all.

In the times when the person who won did not have a majority of the votes, but was elected by the Electoral College, the Electors did follow the rules.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

denmarc

  • ---
  • Posts: 2452
  • "I put a spell on you!"
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2016, 12:50:07 PM »
I'm pushing 60 YOA. I have never had to vote what my heart isn't telling me, until now. I have always said the two party system is for the birds. Now the birds have come home to roost.

So what do I do this election cycle? I can't vote for either one and sleep at night. All alternatives mean zero results. They would never get even close to getting elected. Not enough resources and money.
The position goes to the one with the most money and media coverage? Not my idea of anything to base a vote on.

At this point, I'm thinking a better vote would be for Alfred E. Neuman.
Look him up.
The right to vote is meaning less and less as time goes by. IMHO.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 12:55:02 PM by denmarc »
Mark

1994 Jayco Eagle 370FB on 24 acres of paid off paradise in Michigan.

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
Dr. Seuss

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1441
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2016, 01:07:39 PM »
.

At this point, I'm thinking a better vote would be for Alfred E. Neuman.
Look him up.
The right to vote is meaning less and less as time goes by. IMHO.

What?  Me worry?  :)
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

Irover

  • ---
  • Posts: 369
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2016, 01:12:32 PM »
  :( I don't like the Choices for POTUS either. But I will vote! Like others said. at least vote for the other candidates whom you believe best fill the positions!!! 8) I also am a Veteran who served my country so others can share the Freedoms that this still Great Country has to offer. Thoughts hit my thinking every so often if I had been born in an earlier time or a different country.  >:( After much thought on this, I'm pleased to have lived from 1951 to present, even though I feel this is the Most Important Time to Cast our Votes!

Moderators, If this is too political just delete all or part of it, JMHO!
Don't ever give up!! keep pushing toward the goal!!!
USAEUR; 1st Armored Div., E Co.123rd Maintenance Btln. 71-74

denmarc

  • ---
  • Posts: 2452
  • "I put a spell on you!"
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2016, 01:58:58 PM »
Mark

1994 Jayco Eagle 370FB on 24 acres of paid off paradise in Michigan.

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
Dr. Seuss

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2016, 02:26:47 PM »
I anthologize for starting the discussion of the E/C system.

 but as I was sitting here in CA feeling really disenfranchised and disgusted as can be about this election........

 After one of the candidates comes up with this "Super Delegate" thing..... that can override the fairness of primary vote,... and that effects the E/C vote.....  which overrides the fairness of the popular vote,....... which means it doesn't really matter if anyone votes. 

sorry..... I too would like to vote for Alfred E. Neuman
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 02:41:15 PM by TonyDtorch »

dave54

  • ---
  • Posts: 179
  • Old guy. Loves being outdoors
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2016, 02:37:38 PM »
Even if you cannot force yourself to choose one of the odious disgusting candidates as the lesser among evils, it is still important to vote.  There are still the Congressional races, state offices, local offices, and propositions on the ballot.  These are very important and may affect you personally more than the President.

The President has no power over how state parks are administered.  Your home value and property taxes are determined by state and local policies, not Washington DC.  Federal public lands are administered by professional land managers who strongly consider local input to the land management decisions.  Whether you can park your RV at your home or not, or stay at a Walmart while traveling, is determined by the local planning commission, not the President.  So even if you leave the president race blank on your ballot vote the rest of the races. 
I never get lost.  I just have unplanned adventures.

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 11005
  • Everything I state is my opinion.
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2016, 02:38:47 PM »
Jeez do any of you people know anything about how politics works in this country? Super delegates are delegates to the Democratic National Convention. They have nothing to do with the Electoral College. Apples and oranges.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
My new Pixel camera:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rMSw5eVkCfKuuEOP2
My portfolio:
https://goo.gl/photos/Cx4SaYhGfYFShSty7
My Grand Canyon shots:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Nc1AT8tQp25wJwfm1

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2016, 02:43:23 PM »
Jeez do any of you people know anything about how politics works in this country? Super delegates are delegates to the Democratic National Convention. They have nothing to do with the Electoral College. Apples and oranges.



let's ask Bernie about "super Delegates"
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 02:49:24 PM by TonyDtorch »

dave54

  • ---
  • Posts: 179
  • Old guy. Loves being outdoors
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2016, 02:48:12 PM »
...At this point, I'm thinking a better vote would be for Alfred E. Neuman...

Or Pat Paulsen.  He died in 1997, which still makes him more qualified...
I never get lost.  I just have unplanned adventures.

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1441
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2016, 02:50:56 PM »
Super delegates have a well intended purpose.  A political party is a private entity, and can pretty much make it's own rules.  I am guessing that a lot of the members of one of the major parties wishes they had super delegates.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2016, 03:00:03 PM »
and are these supper delegate votes..... representative of the people votes ?

it sounds like they step in and change things when the party disagrees with the popular vote.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 03:03:56 PM by TonyDtorch »

Paul & Ann

  • ---
  • Posts: 1441
    • Paul and Ann's Great RV Adventure
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2016, 03:02:42 PM »
and are these supper delegate votes..... representative of the people votes ?

The super delegates are picked by the party, and are free to vote as they see fit, but to my knowledge their votes have never decided the Party's nominee.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

TonyDtorch

  • ---
  • Posts: 2193
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2016, 03:06:22 PM »
The super delegates are picked by the party, and are free to vote as they see fit, but to my knowledge their votes have never decided the Party's nominee.

as I saw it....the threat of super delegates had a strong influence in the dem. primary.  It was almost like it didn't matter what the people wanted the party will decide what's best for you.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 03:07:57 PM by TonyDtorch »

garyb1st

  • ---
  • Posts: 2131
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2016, 04:08:32 PM »
The super delegates are picked by the party, and are free to vote as they see fit, but to my knowledge their votes have never decided the Party's nominee.
  Some candidates may have thought otherwise.   
Gary B1st

2005 Pace Arrow 35G
2016 Jeep Wrangler

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44708
    • RV Forum web site
Re: The right to vote
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2016, 05:50:44 PM »
This topic has run its originally intended course, and now might be a good time to lock it before things get into the inevitable downward spiral.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

 

Hosted by Over The Network