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Author Topic: The right to vote  (Read 4561 times)

Tom

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2016, 10:13:16 AM »
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Welcome to America Tom. So nice to have you in our country

Thanks. After living 36 years here, and visiting during the prior 10 years, we feel quite welcome. My one regret is not having had the opportunity to serve.

Thank you for your service.
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Paul & Ann

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2016, 10:17:51 AM »
I particularly don't like the electoral colledge because its made up of "professional politicians" which we could do nicely without.>>>D

I suppose you would be happy if we didnt have professional pilots flying airplanes, as well.  :)
Paul & Ann  Iowa
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Tom

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2016, 10:25:29 AM »
Driving down our street a couple of days ago, I was surprised, almost startled, to see signs in neighbors' yards to "Vote for xxxx". This happens to be a friend/acquaintance we've known for many years. We've never discussed politics or shared political opinions/positions, and I had to stop and read the small print on the sign; It read "... for yyyy school board".

Knowing that the lady retired from a career in school teaching, the sign now made sense. Also, knowing the individual and her characteristics, I can imagine the contribution she'll make to the school board, and she'll get my vote.
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Tom

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2016, 10:36:39 AM »
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It is 'first past the post'...

Reminds me of the days I was unhappy with the UK electoral system; I used to tell people that local towns/villages "originally" sent their representative a couple of hundred miles to London on horseback (or mule)  ;D
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Hfx_Cdn

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2016, 12:01:05 PM »
     At first I thought this was a string about our local municipal elections which take place this coming Saturday, but I see that it is about some kind of election going on down there next month.   ;)
     The discussion reminds me of discussions I used to have with my maternal grandfather.  He left Russia circa 1905 after being drafted and posted to the Japanese front.  He said that was a war that he strongly disagreed with, so he walked, stole rides on carts and otherwise sneaked his way about 500 miles to the nearest border, where he caught a train to the coast to come to Canada.  He said that by exercising his vote, he was making sure that no one would ever have the ability to start a war about a couple of virtually uninhabited islands.
     Oh by the way Roy, your post brought back Winston Churchill's comment the "Democracy is the worst system, except for all others"

Ed
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TonyDtorch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2016, 01:18:33 PM »
Reminds me of the days I was unhappy with the UK electoral system; I used to tell people that local towns/villages "originally" sent their representative a couple of hundred miles to London on horseback (or mule)  ;D
Tom, are you aware of the recent turmoil going on in local city counsels around London ?   Pubs appear to be being voted out of business.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 01:32:13 PM by TonyDtorch »

Tom

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2016, 01:30:46 PM »
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Tom, are you aware of the turmoil going on in city counsels near London ?

To some extent; I listen to BBC News and BBC podcasts nightly.

How did the representative on horseback know if he was getting closer to, or further away from, London? I took the attached picture of a real milestone preserved at the side of the highway on the way out of a local town. If the number went down, the rider was getting closer but, if it went up, he was going in the wrong direction  ;D
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Tom

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2016, 01:42:02 PM »
In the UK, the choice of Prime Minister is independent of a general election; The leader of a political party is presumed to be PM if that party wins the election. He/she could have been leader of their respective party for years before an election. But the appointment of PM is 'officially' done by the Queen when she summonses the party leader to the palace and asks him or her to form a government.

The UK parliamentary system does not have the equivalent of our 3 branches of government and associated checks and balances. Whilst the Queen announces an agenda for the upcoming year's parliament (in her annual speech to the nation), she does not have veto power over any legislation. Meanwhile, every cabinet position is matched by a 'shadow cabinet' position; The shadow cabinet has no veto rights per se, but each member/position becomes the opposing party's "expert" on the subject area, and will/can argue with knowledge.

At least, that's how it used to work; Things might have changed since we lived there  ???
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 03:01:45 PM by Tom »
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RoyM

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2016, 02:43:07 PM »
dave54, you brought up a real problem with our parliamentary system. The number of seats are allocated roughly according to population meaning south western Quebec and southern Ontario have most of the clout. By the time Ontario polls close, the election has already been decided, the western vote only determines how much of a majority the winning party enjoys.
Your system of electing the leader separate from the representatives certainly has merit, in my opinion ours gives too much power to too few people and it gets abused but yours can lead to paralysis as has happened. There is no perfect answer.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2016, 06:47:14 PM »
and the same thing for CA, the winner is announced early in the day, long before noon, polls close at 5pm but because the "exit polls" always say there ain't a chance in hell,  so these 55 E/C votes are just automatically counted for the Democratic candidate... the easy winner is predicted in the news and so it is.

why even bother to vote.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 07:08:34 PM by TonyDtorch »

Paul & Ann

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2016, 07:07:18 PM »
why even bother to vote.

Down ballot candidates.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
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TonyDtorch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2016, 07:12:20 PM »
and then there was this "Super Delegate" thing ?    Which also sounded kinda like a "your vote don't matter" thing to me....

« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 07:35:09 PM by TonyDtorch »

hoddinron

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2016, 07:24:39 PM »

Joyce and I voted today - then we took our "mail-in" ballots directly over to the Election Supervisor's Office in our Florida County, and placed them in the drop box.

Can I stop listening to all the CRAP now?

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John From Detroit

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2016, 07:28:08 PM »
I disagree Tom
as a resident of CA (and a Vietnam vet),  our current Electoral college system awards all 55 delegates to the simple majority winner....

Actually your percentage is off a bit.. But I won't comment on that further.

Long ago, most all the states did it that way. Several (more than one) president, as a result LOST the Popular vote on the 1st Tuesday after the 1t Monday in November.. but won in the December vote (Electorial college)  I think John Kennedy was one such as I recall but.. Well, 56 years ago so the memory is a tad fuzzy there.

Many states have gone to proportional Electorial votes.  You get 60%, you get 60% of the electors from that state.

If you say Ca is not one of those states.. I won't argue, or support. for I simply do not know.

If you say you can predict how all 55 Will vote.. that is another matter... For as the 1960's song says "The Times thay are A-Changing". and I think there are going to be some serious surprises come next month.. Just who will be surprised. Remains to be determined.
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garyb1st

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2016, 10:23:43 AM »
Please don't ask who I/we will vote for, and don't suggest or impose your own preferences. 

Could you at least tell us who your are not voting for.   lol
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garyb1st

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2016, 11:05:04 AM »
I wonder how many voters actually read the official voter information guide?  The California guide is 222 pages long.  Not doing a poll of Forum members but curious about the population in general. 
Gary B1st

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dave54

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2016, 11:52:50 AM »
...
Long ago, most all the states did it that way. Several (more than one) president, as a result LOST the Popular vote on the 1st Tuesday after the 1t Monday in November.. but won in the December vote (Electorial college)  I think John Kennedy was one such as I recall but.. Well, 56 years ago so the memory is a tad fuzzy there.

Many states have gone to proportional Electorial votes.  You get 60%, you get 60% of the electors from that state...


IIRC the candidate with the majority votes lost the Electoral vote three times in U.S. history -- 1824, 1876, and 2000.  The 1876 Hayes/Tilden race was especially interesting.  The EC could not reach a majority, neither could the House of Representatives.  After some closed door dealmaking among party leaders Rutherford Hayes was given the election, despite losing the popular vote.

Only two states have proportional Electoral voting -- Nebraska and Maine.  Many have talked about it, but so far the remaining 48 are winner take all.
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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2016, 12:35:05 PM »
IIRC the candidate with the majority votes lost the Electoral vote three times in U.S. history -- 1824, 1876, and 2000.  The 1876 Hayes/Tilden race was especially interesting.  The EC could not reach a majority, neither could the House of Representatives.  After some closed door dealmaking among party leaders Rutherford Hayes was given the election, despite losing the popular vote.

Only two states have proportional Electoral voting -- Nebraska and Maine.  Many have talked about it, but so far the remaining 48 are winner take all.

In the times when the person who won did not have a majority of the votes, but was elected by the Electoral College, the Electors did follow the rules.
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denmarc

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2016, 12:50:07 PM »
I'm pushing 60 YOA. I have never had to vote what my heart isn't telling me, until now. I have always said the two party system is for the birds. Now the birds have come home to roost.

So what do I do this election cycle? I can't vote for either one and sleep at night. All alternatives mean zero results. They would never get even close to getting elected. Not enough resources and money.
The position goes to the one with the most money and media coverage? Not my idea of anything to base a vote on.

At this point, I'm thinking a better vote would be for Alfred E. Neuman.
Look him up.
The right to vote is meaning less and less as time goes by. IMHO.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 12:55:02 PM by denmarc »
Mark

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Paul & Ann

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2016, 01:07:39 PM »
.

At this point, I'm thinking a better vote would be for Alfred E. Neuman.
Look him up.
The right to vote is meaning less and less as time goes by. IMHO.

What?  Me worry?  :)
Paul & Ann  Iowa
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Irover

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2016, 01:12:32 PM »
  :( I don't like the Choices for POTUS either. But I will vote! Like others said. at least vote for the other candidates whom you believe best fill the positions!!! 8) I also am a Veteran who served my country so others can share the Freedoms that this still Great Country has to offer. Thoughts hit my thinking every so often if I had been born in an earlier time or a different country.  >:( After much thought on this, I'm pleased to have lived from 1951 to present, even though I feel this is the Most Important Time to Cast our Votes!

Moderators, If this is too political just delete all or part of it, JMHO!
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denmarc

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2016, 01:58:58 PM »
Mark

1994 Jayco Eagle 370FB on 24 acres of paid off paradise in Michigan.

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
Dr. Seuss

TonyDtorch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2016, 02:26:47 PM »
I anthologize for starting the discussion of the E/C system.

 but as I was sitting here in CA feeling really disenfranchised and disgusted as can be about this election........

 After one of the candidates comes up with this "Super Delegate" thing..... that can override the fairness of primary vote,... and that effects the E/C vote.....  which overrides the fairness of the popular vote,....... which means it doesn't really matter if anyone votes. 

sorry..... I too would like to vote for Alfred E. Neuman
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 02:41:15 PM by TonyDtorch »

dave54

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2016, 02:37:38 PM »
Even if you cannot force yourself to choose one of the odious disgusting candidates as the lesser among evils, it is still important to vote.  There are still the Congressional races, state offices, local offices, and propositions on the ballot.  These are very important and may affect you personally more than the President.

The President has no power over how state parks are administered.  Your home value and property taxes are determined by state and local policies, not Washington DC.  Federal public lands are administered by professional land managers who strongly consider local input to the land management decisions.  Whether you can park your RV at your home or not, or stay at a Walmart while traveling, is determined by the local planning commission, not the President.  So even if you leave the president race blank on your ballot vote the rest of the races. 
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SeilerBird

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2016, 02:38:47 PM »
Jeez do any of you people know anything about how politics works in this country? Super delegates are delegates to the Democratic National Convention. They have nothing to do with the Electoral College. Apples and oranges.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2016, 02:43:23 PM »
Jeez do any of you people know anything about how politics works in this country? Super delegates are delegates to the Democratic National Convention. They have nothing to do with the Electoral College. Apples and oranges.



let's ask Bernie about "super Delegates"
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 02:49:24 PM by TonyDtorch »

dave54

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2016, 02:48:12 PM »
...At this point, I'm thinking a better vote would be for Alfred E. Neuman...

Or Pat Paulsen.  He died in 1997, which still makes him more qualified...
I never get lost.  I just have unplanned adventures.

Paul & Ann

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2016, 02:50:56 PM »
Super delegates have a well intended purpose.  A political party is a private entity, and can pretty much make it's own rules.  I am guessing that a lot of the members of one of the major parties wishes they had super delegates.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
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TonyDtorch

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2016, 03:00:03 PM »
and are these supper delegate votes..... representative of the people votes ?

it sounds like they step in and change things when the party disagrees with the popular vote.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 03:03:56 PM by TonyDtorch »

Paul & Ann

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Re: The right to vote
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2016, 03:02:42 PM »
and are these supper delegate votes..... representative of the people votes ?

The super delegates are picked by the party, and are free to vote as they see fit, but to my knowledge their votes have never decided the Party's nominee.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
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http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

 

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