Converter/Inverter/Charger

My first post!  I'd like to start by thanking this community for providing an incredible wealth of information! I've literally read thousands of posts in the last couple of months.  Now  I'm hoping I can get my brain wrapped around one of several issues dogging me.

New to me 2004 Journey 34H.  Less than 11,000 miles and very lightly used.  I've replaced original Michelins (dry rot) and chassis bats ('08). PO stored indoor on shore power.  472 hrs on Onan 7.5kw.  The coach is equipped with Dimensions 2000.  I know it's not a fan favorite.  Here in lies my problem.

House bats (3) from early 2011.  Interstate 31-VHD. The Dimensions (Dimented!) remote is dark.  House bats only charge from alternator. 
Took a long weekend close to home to do a shake-out of the rig.  50A shore power connected.  We had to run the engine (300 Cummins) end of day then again in the morning to recharge house bats.  So my first question is does the Dimensions also contain charger while on shore power or genset for house bats?  The inverter is either non-functioning or hooked up improperly.  I've poured over related posts here but haven't been able to diagnose this.  I can live without the inverter for now but I obviously need to solve the charging problem.  I plan to replace house bats with Interstate 31-AMG7's. Are these adequate/appropriate? I currently don't have any planned trips until Feb '17 so I do have some time to remedy. 

I do have more questions/issues but this is #1.  I'm sure I've left-out important info.  Help! Thank you all in advance for your help!  I love this Forum!


Mike



   

Welcome! 

Your house batteries definitely should charge from shore power, and also from the on board generator. The fact that the house batteries charge from the engine alternator make me believe your coach should have either a trik-l-start OR a B.I.R.D. installed that enable charging from any power source. On my 03 Ultimate, the B.I.R.D. is in the electrical compartment under the driver seat and is controlled by a large solenoid mounted on the front wall. If the solenoid goes bad, the charging system does not work in all modes. I don't know if the trik-l-start is controlled the same way or not. Hopefully someone with a comparable Journey can join the conversation. The problem may be a solenoid or relay, OR it may be in the Dimensions inverter/charger. There is a breaker located on the inverter itself. Insure that is not tripped, and go from there. Mine is slightly different, but an erratic or blank display for mine can often be corrected by unplugging the network style cable from either end (behind the display or on the inverter), leaving it out for a minute, then re-connecting it.

mojomike said:

My first post!  I'd like to start by thanking this community for providing an incredible wealth of information! I've literally read thousands of posts in the last couple of months.  Now  I'm hoping I can get my brain wrapped around one of several issues dogging me.

New to me 2004 Journey 34H.  Less than 11,000 miles and very lightly used.  I've replaced original Michelins (dry rot) and chassis bats ('08). PO stored indoor on shore power.  472 hrs on Onan 7.5kw.  The coach is equipped with Dimensions 2000.  I know it's not a fan favorite.  Here in lies my problem.

House bats (3) from early 2011.  Interstate 31-VHD. The Dimensions (Dimented!) remote is dark.  House bats only charge from alternator. 
Took a long weekend close to home to do a shake-out of the rig.  50A shore power connected.  We had to run the engine (300 Cummins) end of day then again in the morning to recharge house bats.  So my first question is does the Dimensions also contain charger while on shore power or genset for house bats?  The inverter is either non-functioning or hooked up improperly.  I've poured over related posts here but haven't been able to diagnose this.  I can live without the inverter for now but I obviously need to solve the charging problem.  I plan to replace house bats with Interstate 31-AMG7's. Are these adequate/appropriate? I currently don't have any planned trips until Feb '17 so I do have some time to remedy. 

I do have more questions/issues but this is #1.  I'm sure I've left-out important info.  Help! Thank you all in advance for your help!  I love this Forum!


Mike

Click to expand...

In the typical RV, the converter charges the house batteries whenever you're on shore power or the generator. Make sure the converter is running. Could be a tripped circuit breaker or tripped ground fault preventing it from working.

Your problem will not be the batteries if they  charge okay via the alternator.

Your first step is to find the converter and see if it's getting 120 VAC into it while you're on generator or shore power.

-Don-  Reno, NV

Welcome aboard!

Good answers from the guys. First off, your house batteries are five years old - essentially end-of-life for non-premium batteries. You can go two routes with replacement batteries: run-of-the-mill flooded cell batteries (wet) like the Interstates or go premium with AGM chemistry batteries.

I highly recommend you spend the extra bucks for AGM, they will last longer, they will charge faster and due to lower internal resistance, they won't self-discharge as fast as wet batteries. Another huge advantage is once they are installed, you're done.  No water to check - ever. They are truly maintenance free.

As far as your Dimented (my loving term for this mediocre piece of equipment) charger/inverter, don't bother with it. Replace it with a Magnum MS 2000 or an MS 2012 pure sine wave inverter/charger. You will need the remote panel and you can add the Magnum battery monitor to keep track of charge/discharge, especially valuable for the boondockers.  You can also add an auto generator start module to start the generator when one of many configurable settings is met.  Even comes with a temperature sensor so you can start on high interior temperature (handy if you leave pets aboard and leave for several hours in a hot climate.)

You should check the date code on your chassis battery bank, if they are four or five years old, time for them to go as well.

On the mechanical side of things, if you don't have service records on the chassis, you should take it to a Freightliner Oasis dealer (they have techs familiar with RVs and usually electric hookups) and have the appropriate maintenance performed. Also get the generator serviced.

So my first question is does the Dimensions also contain charger while on shore power or genset for house bats?

Click to expand...

Yes - it is a combo inverter, converter, and charger. And it's lack of reliability is legendary.

Until you can get it replaced, just hook a standard portable 12v battery charger to the house batteries to keep the charge up.

The scary news is that as of 2014 Magnum is part of the same company as Dimensions (Sensata Technology). I just hope that bringing the Magnum people onboard improves the Dimensions rather than ruins the Magnums.

Gary RV Roamer said:

...The scary news is that as of 2014 Magnum is part of the same company as Dimensions (Sensata Technology). I just hope that bringing the Magnum people onboard improves the Dimensions rather than ruins the Magnums.

Click to expand...

That was exactly my concern as well but after having a fairly long discussion with the sales rep from Don Rowe, Magnum is basically unchanged at this point in time based on his interaction with them.

My Xantrex RS2000 failed after 10+ years and comparing the build quality of my new Magnum vs. my old Xantrex, the clear winner is Xantrex. The Xantrex control panel is nicer looking and clearly has had more thought put into its design and has more features. My old RS2000 probably weighs 10 more pounds more than the Magnum. Having said that, the Magnum seems to be working quite well and seems to be more accurate determining when to stop charging the house bank. In full sun my solar panels will put out 15-18 amps which more than covers house DC requirements with some leftover to float charge the house/chassis banks.  The RS2000 would never stop charging.

Even though the Magnum control panel is 'clunkier' looking and lacking display features vs the RS2000 panel, it is far easier to use with fewer menus to drill down to get to your objective. Another feature of the Magnum is the fans will only run on thermal demand unlike the RS2000. So basically I'm okay with the Magnum product.

In any case, I was never going to use another Xantrex product since they stopped supporting my then five year-old RS2000 which needed a firmware update.  The newer firmware was available but they would not send it to me. Bye, bye Xantrex.

I'm equally disgruntled with Xantrex lack of support for legacy products. I would probably buy Magnum if I had to replace my RV2500 (have my fingers crossed!). Magnum was excellent when it was formed and developed their product line, but it's worrisome now that they have been taken over.

I've called Magnum tech support a couple of times (maybe three x), one time I was #15 in queue  , the other time(s) the wait wasn't that long. I did have a defective auto gen start module right out of the box, troubleshooting with the tech went real well, they sent me a replacement but I had to pay to get one on the way. I sent the defective module back and got credited.

I'm shocked.. (shocked I say) at your endorsement of the Xantrex. I had one for a very short time bought through eBay and it arrived dead. I spent a LOT of time talking to dealers, including Don Rowe about fixing or if it was even worth it. All said it was not a repairable device and unless under warranty is a boat anchor. I opened a complaint with eBay that this non-returnable item was DOA, and won. The seller didn't want it back either, what's that say. My guess is they killed it and got the same answers I did.

I also seem to remember the Xantrex being considerably lighter than the Magnum, that because the Magnum has a nice big fat iron transformer in it, the Xantrex not. While the Xantrex did have a prettier panel, as well as considerably more accurate instrumentation as opposed to the Magnum (sans the BMK), Magnum will tell you right out that is true, and they they put their money into the robustness of the inverter/ charger, and if you want super accuracy, use the BMK.. I did.

Once the BMK was installed I thought the CP is pretty straight forward. I would like a little better menu layout since these are allot of basic functions I don't want because the BMK has the same info and is FAR more accurate, but I rarely wander off of the 5 presets I have going anymore.

Also, somewhere on this forum or iRV2 is an article about all these companies: Heart, Xantrex, Magnum, probably Dimensions, etc... There is a basic core group of design guys running around through all of these companies, startups, mergers, etc. the technical players are all the same.

OP: That year 34H did not have the Trik-L-Charge installed, so unless someone installed it you do not have the ability to charge the chassis batteries, only house. PLEASE don't fall for the $425 Dimensions charge only to get back a mediocre MSW inverter that lots of devices don't play well with.  Buy the Best and Cry Only Once.

Also if you don't want to spring for AGM, at least replace those with 6v GC batteries. Mine originally came with GP31, and I killed them in a night in Quartzsite with evening TV and the 16 degree windy night. Those were replaced as soon as we got home, still new.

Jeff - the RS2000 is much heavier than the old Demented or my new Magnum. I do have the BMK but I'm not going to install it on the road (I replaced the failed RS2000 about two months ago when first on the road for the summer.)

Thanks to all for your speedy and detailed replies!

Set of 3 31-AGM7's ordered.  Appointment with Freightliner end of this week.  Have an eng light on.  Code points to turbo.
I plan on removing the remote display to check connections and for power.  Is there an on/off switch other than the breaker? 
The pop up breaker on the Dimensions is set.  I've flipped and reset the breaker under the foot of the bed.  I have disconnected and reconnected the 2 smaller wires at the unit, but didn't leave disconnected for a period of time to reset.  I'll do that as well.

Location of coach in storage as well as my work schedule limits me to weekends at this point.  I now have my list for this coming weekend!

I'll update on any progress/roadblocks.  Any additional input is greatly appreciated.

Again, thank you all for your help.

Mike
2004 Journey 34H
Cummins 300
2001 GC Limited toad
Blue Ox
Brake Buddy

John Canfield said:

Jeff - the RS2000 is much heavier than the old Demented or my new Magnum. I do have the BMK but I'm not going to install it on the road (I replaced the failed RS2000 about two months ago when first on the road for the summer.)

Click to expand...

AH, you have that big sucker. I was thinking it was a Prosine.. big difference. The addition of the BMK makes a big difference in your monitoring capabilities on that thing, you'll like it. I got a good deal on the AGS last year so now all the panel "features" work 

Mike: the fuse for the Dimensions is likely located on the right wall right next to the battery tray. Might check that.

mojomike said:

..Set of 3 31-AGM7's ordered. ...

Click to expand...

Most excellent decision, you will not regret it.  Now get that Magnum ordered.

Jeff - yup, the big boy RS2000. I think it weighs close to 50 pounds. I have it in one of my bays, couldn't stand the thought of dumping it. I'm going to get it on the bench and play with it when I get home for the winter, probably sell it on eBay for parts..

What is a BMK?

B attery
M onitor
K it

It's an external module designed for the Magnum. It's monitoring is significantly more accurate than what's standard on the Magnum. It also calculates State Of Charge (SOC) that looks at battery voltage, current draw, temp, what it takes to return Charge, etc., and delivers an aggrate percentage of charge. It's gotten to the point that SOC is all I look at any more. It also comes with current shunt

I agree Jeff, I use mostly the SOC to know what is going on with the batteries most of the time. And for the less techie guys like me, it's less stress on the the brain.  My biggest problem is trying to remember to turn off the gen start when I get on the road.  I will look down the the "gen stop" toggle is lit up and the gen is running and I didn't know it!

Since this is the Winnie board (u trader..  :-\ ??? ), I'll point out that you have to be careful where that AGS gets its power from. Since the board power and sense are the same lead, you need to pick power from the battery, not from the One Place area that gets fed from the front of the coach, same as the starter for the gen.
So voltages drops, AGS decides to start, gen cranks, voltage to AGS logic drops, confusing the electronics, it crashes, drops gen start, goto 1 and repeat.

Fix: go find power way closer to the battery

Hmmm, my Magnum panel is one hard wire directly connected to the Magnum Inverter.  Since my Inverter is on all the time, when I unhook shore power the Inverter takes over and runs the whole coach.  I just assumed since the alternator's first job is powering the chassis batteries, the house gets what's left thus tripping the gen start when the refer cycles.  Or so I thought......

OK.  Updates as promised!

Made some big progress on the Journey yesterday.  Set out to replace the house bank with 31-AGM7's.  I make a habit of taking a bunch of pics throughout any project big or small.  I used to think I'd remember what went where when reassembling...
Anyway, got the old batts removed.  Cleaned with wire wheel all cable ends as well as the battery hold down rods.  Also removed and inspected the inverter fuse, which checked out fine.  Thank you SCVJeff for the location of that fuse.  Dropped the 3 batts in the tray and pulled up "before" pic to reassemble.  Much to my surprise I noticed the black inverter cable routed to the positive battery post!!  What??!!
Can't believe I didn't spot that earlier!

I grabbed the wiring diagram for the Dimensions (just in case I was completely mistaken about how electricity works) and hooked all the cables up properly.  Crossed my fingers and went to the remote on One Place.

Voila!  Let there be light!  First time the panel has been lit!  I wasn't sure if the previous improper wiring had doomed the inverter but it works!  I'm thrilled to have all of my charging options available for the first time.  I do plan on replacing the Dimensions eventually though. 

So with 2 new chassis batts and 3 new house batts as well as a working inverter/charger, I just have to remedy the nasty engine light.

I couldn't have done all of this on my own without everything I've learned from this community and your specific answers to my post.

Thanks again to all for your help!  I'll attempt to resize and attach pics..

--Mike


 

Nice work Mike! I too take tons of pics before I disassemble something. That has saved my rear several times....