A Question for the "Horsepower" Folks
- Thread starter steelmooch
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Alpena Jeff
Well-known member
You're overreacting. Relax. 8)
legrandnormand
Well-known member
donn said:
Can your surname be TRUMP ?
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Wow. My hyperbole seems to have touched a sore point! Nothing personal intended toward you, donn. Whoever originally made that factually incorrect statement is someone unknown to me who probably has never visited this site. He is often quoted on internet blogs but still very wrong, leading people to erroneous conclusions. I hate to see errors in fact propagated further, no matter how well-intended they may have been.
Ernie n Tara
Well-known member
Don,
That quote makes the common mistake of ignoring gearing. If the rpm is correspondent, then acceleration will be the same. For example: Assuming torque were linear, if peak torque is found at 2000 rpm for engine A and 4000 for engine B, then the gear reduction for engine B should be twice that of engine A at 2000 rpm to result in EXACTLY the same acceleration (torque) at those rpms until the wheel turns! That is a law of physics (or a couple of them). Incidentally, the torque at the drive wheels is also identical.
Stated more clearly: where the horsepower of each motor is equal (different RPM's) and the gearing is 2 : 1, the acceleration is the same (neglecting the difference in inertia of the engines)
Horsepower equals RPM times Torque divided by 5050 (if I recall the 5050 correctly).
Incidentally, Gary is the most knowledgeable and helpful person on this forum, bar none. He deserves thanks, not criticism!
Ernie
That quote makes the common mistake of ignoring gearing. If the rpm is correspondent, then acceleration will be the same. For example: Assuming torque were linear, if peak torque is found at 2000 rpm for engine A and 4000 for engine B, then the gear reduction for engine B should be twice that of engine A at 2000 rpm to result in EXACTLY the same acceleration (torque) at those rpms until the wheel turns! That is a law of physics (or a couple of them). Incidentally, the torque at the drive wheels is also identical.
Stated more clearly: where the horsepower of each motor is equal (different RPM's) and the gearing is 2 : 1, the acceleration is the same (neglecting the difference in inertia of the engines)
Horsepower equals RPM times Torque divided by 5050 (if I recall the 5050 correctly).
Incidentally, Gary is the most knowledgeable and helpful person on this forum, bar none. He deserves thanks, not criticism!
Ernie
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Ernie and Grashley, but I'm not immune to mistakes and sometimes indulge in a bit of sarcasm. Plus I know I'm a pedant about many things and errors in fact tend to make me react. Or maybe over-react. It's the 'engineer' in my blood!
John Canfield
Site Team
It's a complicated relationship. Here's one overview/explanation of torque and horsepower.
T
TonyDtorch
Guest
I've always thought engineers are way to literal, some will just leave a bolt loose if they can't find a torque spec. ;D <<< humor !
I think that the point was..... an engine that's designed to produce more torque (like most diesels) does a better job with heaver loads.
but I really think the O/P is fine with his present vehicle towing 3k lbs. ....he just needs to take his time and except the fact that he is towing something up hill.
I think that the point was..... an engine that's designed to produce more torque (like most diesels) does a better job with heaver loads.
but I really think the O/P is fine with his present vehicle towing 3k lbs. ....he just needs to take his time and except the fact that he is towing something up hill.
UNBELIEVABLE! So many people supporting an out and out threat. Guess this goes to show how crass our country has become. Here I misjudged this forums advertisment as " the friendliest forum on earth" . Not any more.
So since no one wants to apologize to me for the threat to my life I here by say good by and good luck!
If any forum admin sees my post, please delete my name and profile from the forum. I sure dont want some wacko taking Garys out an out threat seriously and come after me or my family.
Guess we will let the FBI continue dealing with this situation.
So since no one wants to apologize to me for the threat to my life I here by say good by and good luck!
If any forum admin sees my post, please delete my name and profile from the forum. I sure dont want some wacko taking Garys out an out threat seriously and come after me or my family.
Guess we will let the FBI continue dealing with this situation.
Tom
Administrator
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2005
- Posts
- 51,898
I believe that Gary explained that his comment wasn't directed at you Donn; It was, in his words, hyperbole, and directed at some mythical person who first made the factually incorrect statement, which I suspect long pre-dates any of us on this or other forums. I didn't see it as an "out and out threat" against you or any person.
Anyone who has spent any time with Gary in person would know that he's neither a violent nor threatening person; In fact, I'd say quite the opposite. He does, however, deal in facts and has a discipline of correcting incorrect statements, as many of us have done on this forum for years.
We're sorry you took this personally, and that you no longer wish to participate here. However, we do not delete accounts; That's something you can do via your profile. We sincerely wish you the best, and please be aware that you'll be welcome here should you decide to return in the future.
Meanwhile, for folks who are interested, here's an article in our forum library (written in 2003) that explains the torque-horsepower relationship in less technical terms.
Anyone who has spent any time with Gary in person would know that he's neither a violent nor threatening person; In fact, I'd say quite the opposite. He does, however, deal in facts and has a discipline of correcting incorrect statements, as many of us have done on this forum for years.
We're sorry you took this personally, and that you no longer wish to participate here. However, we do not delete accounts; That's something you can do via your profile. We sincerely wish you the best, and please be aware that you'll be welcome here should you decide to return in the future.
Meanwhile, for folks who are interested, here's an article in our forum library (written in 2003) that explains the torque-horsepower relationship in less technical terms.
T
TonyDtorch
Guest
Sorry Donn, but Gary doesn't have a harmful bone in his body and I think the FBI may be a little busy with some other internet issues....< (again..humor)
please don't take that phrase so seriously. inflection is very difficult over the internet....
the torque/horsepower, gas/diesel wars are almost as bad as discussing politics or religion anymore.....
please don't take that phrase so seriously. inflection is very difficult over the internet....
the torque/horsepower, gas/diesel wars are almost as bad as discussing politics or religion anymore.....
ironrat
Well-known member
Now for the torque questions, you can have a mass of torque as say applied when your two hands are pushing against each other, there will not be any horse power until there is movement in one direction or another, think about that some.
rbertalotto
Well-known member
This guy has got to be kidding!......This some kind of a joke, right....otherwise what is wrong with society is folks with extremely thin skin....but it is joke...right?
T
TonyDtorch
Guest
rbertalotto said:
The FBI ? ...... I watched the FBI director just recently on TV .....so yes, I think they are a joke.
Frizlefrak
Well-known member
donn said:
Yeah....I'm sure they will drop everything they are doing and address you taking a piece of obvious satire out of context. Dear God Donn.....chill out, have a beer, and relax. Of the list of things that conceivably pose a real threat to your safety, I'm betting Gary is at the absolute bottom of the list.....statistically somewhere below a meteor strike on your birthday while you're sitting on the throne perusing a Reader's Digest and being on page 88.
The other day I was dusting inside the china cabinet. I was moving some of the wife's china that's been handed down over the generations and is over 100 years old. She gave me that cutesy look and said "I will kill you if you drop that soup tureen." Think I should file a police report?
Frizlefrak
Well-known member
So back to the HP/torque thing. Us hotrodders used to have a saying.....torque gets the party started, while HP keeps it going. Not technically correct, but a fun metaphor anyway. As mentioned above, diesels simply move the torque curve (the RPM range where an engine makes optimal HP) lower in the RPM spectrum....which is usually better suited to towing heavy loads without having to wind the engine up so high. That comes at a price, of course...as the engine will move out of the preferred power band quickly, and need to shift to another gear, or it will stop making any more power.
Each has their place.
Each has their place.
T
TonyDtorch
Guest
Friz, back in the day I worked at a speed shop and the way I used to hear it.....Frizlefrak said:
torque is the E.T., horsepower is the speed... and there's no replacement for displacement....(except a blower)
Frizlefrak
Well-known member
TonyDtorch said:
There you go.....heard that one too.
The whole diesel thing for a trailer that small....As much as I love my oil burner, that would be killing (metaphorically, of course) a fly with a sledge hammer. A 3000 lbs trailer needs no more than a half ton pickup with a V8 or turbo 6 to pull like a champ in the hills. A full sized V8 van will pull it much better than the X-Terra.
Frizlefrak
Well-known member
TonyDtorch said:
Technically, a blower IS displacement (more air in and out).....so the adage still holds true.
