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RVing message boards => The Shade Tree => Topic started by: Tom Hoffman on August 13, 2017, 05:17:23 PM

Title: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Tom Hoffman on August 13, 2017, 05:17:23 PM
THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...

(and for their children - so they will understand)

Born in the 1930s and early 40s, we exist as a very special age cohort. We are the Silent Generation.

We are the smallest number of children born since the early 1900s. We are the “last ones.”

We are the last generation, climbing out of the depression, that can remember the winds of war and the impact of a world at war which rattled the structure of our daily lives for years.

We are also the last to remember ration books for everything from gas to sugar to lard to shoes to stoves.

We saved tin foil and poured fat into tin cans for the war effort.

We collected scrap iron and old clothing to support the troops.

We hand mixed ‘white stuff’ with ‘yellow stuff’ to make fake butter.

We saw cars up on blocks because tires weren’t available.

We can remember milk being delivered to our house early in the morning and placed in the “milk box” on the porch. [A friend’s mother delivered milk in a horse drawn cart.]

We are the last to hear Roosevelt ‘s radio “fireside chat” assurances and to see gold stars in the front windows of our grieving neighbors.

We can also remember the parades on August 15, 1945; VJ Day.

We saw the ‘boys’ home from the war, build their Cape Cod style houses, some pouring their cellar, tar papering it over and living there ‘til they could afford the time and money to build it out.

We remember trying to buy a new car after the war. Some new cars were coming through with wooden bumpers.

We are the last generation who spent childhood without television; instead we imagined what we heard on the radio.

As we all like to brag, with no TV, we spent our childhood “playing outside ‘til the street lights came on.”

We did play outside and we did play on our own with neighbors.

There was no little league.

There was no city playground for kids.

To play in the water, we turned the fire hydrants on and ran through the spray--or swam in the nearby creeks and lakes.

The lack of television in our early years meant, for most of us, that we had little real understanding of what the world was really like.

Our Saturday afternoons though, if at the movies (which cost a dime), gave us newsreels of the war sandwiched in between cowboys and cartoons.

Telephones were one to a house, often shared and hung on the wall.

Computers were called calculators, they only added and were hand cranked; typewriters were driven by pounding fingers, throwing the carriage, and changing the ribbon.

The ‘internet’ and ‘GOOGLE’ were words that didn’t exist.

Newspapers and magazines were written for adults and news was broadcast on our table radio in the evening by H.V Kaltenborne and Gabriel Heatter.

We are the last group who had to find so much out for ourselves.

As we grew up, the country was exploding with growth.

The G.I. Bill gave returning veterans the means to get an education and spurred colleges to grow.

Veterans Administration loans fanned a housing boom.

Pent up demand coupled with new installment payment plans put factories to work.

New highways would bring jobs and mobility.

The military veterans joined civic clubs and became active in politics.

In the late 40’s and early 50’s the country seemed to lie in the embrace of brisk but quiet order as it gave birth to its new middle class (which became known as ‘Baby Boomers’).

The radio network expanded from three stations to thousands of stations.

The telephone started to become a common method of communication and “faxes” sent hard copy electronically around the world.

Our parents were suddenly free from the confines of the depression and the war and they threw themselves into exploring opportunities they had never imagined.

We weren’t neglected, but we weren’t today’s all-consuming family focus.

They were glad we played outdoors by ourselves ‘til the street lights came on.

They were busy discovering the post-war world.

Most of us had no life plan, but with the unexpected virtue of ignorance and an economic rising tide we simply stepped into the world and started to find out what the world was about.

We entered a world with overflowing goods and opportunities; a world where we were welcomed.

Based on our naive belief that there was more where this came from, we shaped life as we went.

We enjoyed some luxury; we were at peace and felt secure in our future. Of course, just as today, not all Canadians shared in this experience.

Depression poverty was deep rooted.

Polio was still a crippler.

Then came the Korean War which was a dark presage in the early 50s and by mid-decade school children were ducking under desks--just as we did in the 1940s.

Russia built the “Iron Curtain” and China became Red China.

Eisenhower sent the first ‘advisors’ to Vietnam; and years later, Johnson invented a war there.

Castro set up camp in Cuba and Khrushchev came to power in Russia.

We are the last generation to experience an interlude when there were no existential threats to our homeland.

We came of age in the 40s and early 50s. The war was over and the cold war, terrorism, technological upheaval, “global warming”, and perpetual economic insecurity had yet to haunt life with insistent unease.

Only our generation can remember both a time of apocalyptic war and a time when our world was at peace, security, and full of bright promise and plenty. We have lived through both.

We grew up at the best possible time, a time when the world was getting better not worse. “Worse” came later.

We are the Silent Generation -- “The Last Ones”.

I feel privileged to have lived in the best of times!
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: JackL on August 13, 2017, 05:35:39 PM
Born in 1936 for me.

 I remember it all, but I still like today better than yesterday.

 If we could only get rid of the TV news media, (ABC, NBC, CNN and the rest of them) we would be in a lot better shape !

Jack L
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: SeilerBird on August 13, 2017, 05:51:41 PM
If this is the silent generation then why are you shouting?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: NY_Dutch on August 13, 2017, 09:39:06 PM
When our granddaughter asked me what people did before TV, personal computers, the Internet, cell phones, etc. I told them since we didn't have those things, we had the time to invent them...
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on August 14, 2017, 06:54:44 AM
It was a good time for a lot of us. However, for many US citizens it was a time of great uncertainty and terror. Jim Crow laws prevented many of our citizens the right to vote. One turning point was the Civil Rights Act of 1964. After this past weekend I am afraid the US is back peddling in this area. Women did not get the right to vote until 1920. That's crazy. Although the times the OP speaks of were great for many of us I would not want to go back to them. Not for my grandkids sake, who are mixed race, or the many folks that were possibly going through the worst of times. I would gladly give up my "best of times" for these folks to enjoy half of the freedoms I enjoyed. The Declaration of Independence states all men are created equal. Not so. The Pledge of Allegiance states "Liberty and Justice for all". A truly false statement.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on August 14, 2017, 08:15:10 AM
Born in '39 and would go back to those days in a New York minute.  Yes, there were problems then but they don't compare to what is going on today.  Thankfully I won't have to see much more of it.  I guess if I turned off the TV and radio I would not have to see or hear any more of it.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on August 14, 2017, 08:20:36 AM
Maybe some folks enjoyed the "good ole days" because they either didn't know what was happening or simply didn't care-maybe both.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on August 14, 2017, 08:27:56 AM
I thought that was a wonderful reminder of the Children of the Silent Generation.   Children that lived through but did not have to participate in a war,  are almost forgotten about.

I was a Vietnam child,  many of the memories were fun.  Thank you.

OldGator73...I've seen children play in the middle of a war zone...you can find moments of Peace anywhere.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Utclmjmpr on September 08, 2017, 07:55:54 AM
 41' and can remember replacing the  cardboard in my shoes,, they were not rubber then.>>>Dan
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: taoshum on September 27, 2017, 08:10:13 PM
 If I'd been born in the 30's I'd be dead by the 50's.  There was no cure for some of the illnesses then that are available now.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: SargeW on September 27, 2017, 08:26:07 PM
I think we can all look back to our childhood as a time of innocence. Probably less because of what turmoil was going on at the time, but rather it didn't "touch" us as youngsters.  I have 2 grandchildren now. And I think that some day a long time from now, they will look back on these  days as "the good old days".
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on September 28, 2017, 06:34:48 AM
   The Declaration of Independence states all men are created equal. Not so. The Pledge of Allegiance states "Liberty and Justice for all". A truly false statement.
Just noticed your post and sorry to see a fellow retired USAF veteran put out so much vitriol.  Those are your opinions of course and you live in a country where you are free to express them but thankfully I hope most would disagree.  I do.

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 28, 2017, 07:03:45 AM
Just noticed your post and sorry to see a fellow retired USAF veteran put out so much vitriol.  Those are your opinions of course and you live in a country where you are free to express them but thankfully I hope most would disagree.  I do.

Bill

I apologize to the moderators in advance but I must respond. What does me being a fellow AF member have to do with what I stated? If you think all men (people) are created equal in the US you need to look at prison statistics and watch how non whites are treated. Justice for all is a pipe dream. With the current administration investing in for profit prisons you will see many more folks put in prison that do not belong there. You and I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Many folks do not know what is contained in that document.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: jubileee on September 28, 2017, 10:24:28 AM
Back to the topic. My great grand children (9) invariably ask,at one time or another, why I eat honey on my breakfast cereal. When I tell them I picked the habit up in WWll when sugar was rationed there usually is disbelief.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 28, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
My wife says her Dad would not eat Spam. Supposedly because he was served it quite often when he was in the Army in WWII. We spent 5 years in the U.K. I love bangers and mash but not a big fan of British sausages. They have a lot of filler added. That's because meat was scarce during the war. And I think beans on toast was another cheap meal started during the war.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Isaac-1 on September 28, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
I am one generation removed from these memories, both of my parents were born in the late 1930's and I recall hearing about all of these things from my parents and grandparents as I grew up.  One that was not mentioned was rural electrification, my mother grew up on a farm about a mile outside a small town in north east Louisiana, where such modern day essentials of life as electricity were slow to arrive.  Though being on the main highway and just outside of town it did arrive shortly after my mother's birth so she has no memory of living life without it, she just remembers many friends and family members not being as lucky.

On the other side of the family my father grew up in the town where I still live, a town of about 10,000 people in western Louisiana, he was the youngest child of a local banker.  Living in town they always had electricity growing up, however he still recalled having an ice box and regular home delivery of ice to keep food cold.

While all of this may seem strange to youngsters today, I having been born in the 60's recall the stories told by the older generation as I was growing up.  My father's mother was the daughter of the owner of a general store in what was once a booming lumber town along the Louisiana / Texas State line, though today its population is under a thousand people, there was a time it had 3 movie theaters, and 2 car dealerships.  She was a teenager when she saw her first airplane, a barnstormer that came to town and landed on the highway.  She also told tales of going with her siblings and father (her mother left them when she was 5 or 6) to get supplies for the store in Lake Charles 40 odd miles away, sometimes they would take the train, but usually it was a 2 day horse and wagon trip.  They would travel all day to get to the ferry where it crossed the river Calcasieu river, camp out for the night.  In the morning her father would go into town, and she would care for the younger kids, make breakfast, etc. and then they would travel home with the loaded down wagons arriving late in the evening.

It really is hard that we have gone from that to ordering on Amazon in only a little over 100 years
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 28, 2017, 12:53:21 PM
"...sometimes they would take the train, but usually it was a 2 day horse and wagon trip.  They would travel all day to get to the ferry where it crossed the river Calcasieu river, camp out for the night.  In the morning her father would go into town, and she would care for the younger kids, make breakfast, etc. and then they would travel home with the loaded down wagons arriving late in the evening.

It really is hard that we have gone from that to ordering on Amazon in only a little over 100 years."

I retired from the AF in 1999 and went to work for a company that does gas pipeline inspections. It was suggested folks have an RV for this job since you would be moving around the country quite often. I was sent to Smithville Tennessee. The gas company supplied a guide since we would be sniffing for gas leaks all across rural Tennessee. My guide was Jimmy. Jimmy was a little younger than me (I was 49). One day I asked him where he grew up. He told me Dismal Holler. I didn't believe him at first but once he started telling me about his childhood I came around. He said his Mom and Dad did not have a vehicle. I asked how they got their food and supplies. He said they raised pigs and chickens and grew a garden and they hunted. He told me the pot and pan man came through about once a month. A man actually drove a horse and wagon around with staples like sugar, salt and flour and fabric for clothes. This probably in the late 60's early 70's.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: taoshum on September 28, 2017, 11:09:34 PM
Believe it or not, there are many places in the SW part the US that do not have utility power today.  Some have generators for intermittent power, some have made the leap forward to solar/battery power and some just do without.  Of course, other countries have many, many people without. More glaring examples of the gigantic disparities these days.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 28, 2017, 11:28:33 PM
 ^^^^

Taos, NM is one of the most beautiful places we have visited. My wife wanted us to sleep on the RV roof and watch the stars while in Taos but I was afraid we would roll off in the middle of the night.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John Beard on September 29, 2017, 04:38:53 AM
Many of us (maybe most of us) are children of WWII vets, and Depression era parents. What was not mentioned was the father who returned home, married and had families and who had undiagnosed mental disorders related to their combat experiences. My father a WWII vet who served in the Philippines, and New Guinea had undiagnosed PTSD, severe anger, substance abuse issues, etc.,  etc.

I lived with these two Silent Generation parents...it sucked.

I am sorry and do not mean to offend, but...
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 29, 2017, 05:32:43 AM
My Dad was a WW2 vet,  He was hard and serious,    I am a Vietnam vet,    yes....There were times of hardship in my past.

 now that I am getting older I endeavor to think of all the good times I've had in my life.... and let go of the bad times.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on September 29, 2017, 06:21:06 AM
I apologize to the moderators in advance but I must respond. What does me being a fellow AF member have to do with what I stated? If you think all men (people) are created equal in the US you need to look at prison statistics and watch how non whites are treated. Justice for all is a pipe dream. With the current administration investing in for profit prisons you will see many more folks put in prison that do not belong there. You and I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Many folks do not know what is contained in that document.

One thing I learned in serving my country - PRIDE in my country.  End of discussion.

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Rene T on September 29, 2017, 06:49:22 AM
One thing I learned in serving my country - PRIDE in my country.  End of discussion.

Bill

And respected the flag and the Anthem.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 29, 2017, 08:19:58 AM
One thing I learned in serving my country - PRIDE in my country.  End of discussion.

Bill

You can have pride in your country and still want your country to be better. We, as a country, should strive to always be better. When America was in its infancy only white men had the right to vote and hold office. It took many, many years hardship and bloodshed for people of color and women to obtain those rights. There are many examples of inequality in our history. We as a nation are getting better but we cannot just sit back and say we are done. We have to continue to work to make things equal for all as stated in the Constitution. I served my country for 36 years. I do not want that 36 years of service squandered by our country backsliding into what some call the good ole days.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 29, 2017, 09:10:47 AM
And respected the flag and the Anthem.

The best way to respect the flag is to follow the guidelines set forth in US Code Title 36 Chapter 10. I would say that all the folks riding around with the flag displayed on their trucks, used as clothing, used in advertisement are the folks disrespecting the flag. As far as the National Anthem, there is nothing written that indicates you MUST stand during the playing of the song. If it is someone's opinion that if a person decides to sit or take a knee during the playing of the anthem is somehow disrespectful then I would have to point them towards the First Amendment of the Constitution. If a person sits or kneels during the Anthem in protest they are exercising their First Amendment rights according to the Constitution. It would be unpatriotic (and probably illegal) to force someone to stand during the Anthem. I have not seen any outcry from anybody about the fans at sporting events that rush to the concession stands or the bathrooms during the Anthem.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Dragginourbedaround on September 29, 2017, 11:03:56 AM
The best way to respect the flag is to follow the guidelines set forth in US Code Title 36 Chapter 10. I would say that all the folks riding around with the flag displayed on their trucks, used as clothing, used in advertisement are the folks disrespecting the flag. As far as the National Anthem, there is nothing written that indicates you MUST stand during the playing of the song. If it is someone's opinion that if a person decides to sit or take a knee during the playing of the anthem is somehow disrespectful then I would have to point them towards the First Amendment of the Constitution. If a person sits or kneels during the Anthem in protest they are exercising their First Amendment rights according to the Constitution. It would be unpatriotic (and probably illegal) to force someone to stand during the Anthem. I have not seen any outcry from anybody about the fans at sporting events that rush to the concession stands or the bathrooms during the Anthem.
I searched but couldn't find US Code Title 36 Chapter 10
http://www.usflag.org/us.code36.html
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 29, 2017, 11:44:53 AM
sounds like one of the O.J. jurors....."not guilty because of racial injustice".

I wonder if any of the remaining Tuskegee Airmen would take a knee during our national anthem ? 

Because you have the right...does not make it right.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Paul & Ann on September 29, 2017, 01:21:00 PM

Because you have the right...does not make it right.

Does that apply to guns as well?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 29, 2017, 02:01:37 PM
Does that apply to guns as well?

Absolutely. You have the right not to own a gun if you think it's wrong.   :)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Paul & Ann on September 29, 2017, 02:08:54 PM

Because you have the right...does not make it right.

Does that mean that even though we have a Second Amendment right, does not make it right?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 29, 2017, 02:13:14 PM
Does that mean that even though we have a Second Amendment right, does not make it right?

You may have a different opinion of what's right and wrong from other Americans.  I'm sure there are even some Americans that think women should not have the right to vote.

  You have the right to disagree with anything you want in the Bill of Rights.   If you want to change the laws into what you think is right...change 'em.

  Look at the 18th amendment...those people thought it was the right thing to do.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Paul & Ann on September 29, 2017, 02:30:40 PM
You may have a different opinion of what's right and wrong from other Americans.  I'm sure there are some Americans don't think women should have the right to vote.

 And  You have the right to disagree with anything you want in the Bill of Rights,  Look at what happened to the 18th amendment.

you want to change the law...change it.

That is not my point.  You said, "Because you have the right...does not make it right."  Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant.  What exactly did you mean by that?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 29, 2017, 02:35:51 PM
That is not my point.  You said, "Because you have the right...does not make it right."  What exactly did you mean by that?

an example...

I have the right to use an American flag as toilet paper...but I won't.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: garyb1st on September 29, 2017, 02:37:04 PM
I thought that was a wonderful reminder of the Children of the Silent Generation.   Children that lived through but did not have to participate in a war,  are almost forgotten about.

I was a Vietnam child,  many of the memories were fun.  Thank you.

OldGator73...I've seen children play in the middle of a war zone...you can find moments of Peace anywhere.

Are you suggesting that the Children of the Silent Generation did not have to participate in a war? 
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 29, 2017, 02:46:52 PM
I searched but couldn't find US Code Title 36 Chapter 10
http://www.usflag.org/us.code36.html
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301

If you search "Flag Code" you should be able to find it.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Utclmjmpr on September 29, 2017, 03:27:55 PM
 "Oldgater" seems to be carrying a racial grudge around his neck,,I for one have NEVER OWNED A SLAVE and you for one HAVE NEVER BEEN ONE.. So let it go and get on with life.>>>Dan
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 29, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
"Oldgater" seems to be carrying a racial grudge around his neck,,I for one have NEVER OWNED A SLAVE and you for one HAVE NEVER BEEN ONE.. So let it go and get on with life.>>>Dan

And you sir are demonstrating classic white privilege. This has nothing to do with slavery (we could have that conversation though). This has to do with the inequality in treatment by our society and governments towards people of color, women and the LGBT community. If you do not like the conversation, stay out of it. Whatever you do, do not proclaim to think I have a "racial grudge". I want my two mixed race grandchildren to have all the opportunities and privileges that I have enjoyed. I'll let it go and get on with life when that happens.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 29, 2017, 04:24:44 PM
I wonder...

Let's say you're like me and you have so much disdain for our legal system.....  you decided to take a knee when the bailiff says "All Rise".


What would happen..do you have that right not to stand ?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 29, 2017, 04:45:22 PM
I wonder...

Let's say you're like me and you have so much disdain for our legal system.....  you took a knee when the bailiff says "All Rise".


What would happen..do you have that right not to stand ?

Interesting question. From what I have read the bailiff has no authority over you in the courtroom. But, if the judge asks you to rise and approach the bench and you don't, you might be held in contempt.
There is no penalty for not rising for the Anthem. The statute covering such matters says "should" not shall or must.
I have disdain for a legal system that is not impartial.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 29, 2017, 05:01:22 PM
I'm good with that,    after watching the O.J. trial....The next time I hear a bailiff say .."All Rise" ..... I'm gonna be like the pro athletes  ...
 I'll  give him a one finger salute and stay seated.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 29, 2017, 05:09:13 PM
I'm good with that,    after watching the O.J. trial....The next time I hear a bailiff say .."All Rise" ..... I'll be like a pro football player.... I'll  give him a one finger salute and stay seated.

Whatever blows your dress up.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John From Detroit on September 29, 2017, 05:19:17 PM
Responding to the subject more than anything.. Yes. a generation or two ago I recall Nixon talking about the "Silent Majority" 

Fact is back then not many of us had a public voice. Oh you could write a letter to the editor but only a few get published, You could write your senator or representive, mayor, council man or other elected official but how much attention did they pay.

Today we have the internet and social media so every person who can type now has a Public Voice, we can all speak out on many things tha bother us.

Subject: Tangent: Respect for the flat and the anthem.....

How respectful is it to Dress in the FLag (Flag code: Flag not to be used as clothing or as part of clothign except for a flag patch on selectred uniforms) (Slightly paraphreased)

How respuctifl to brag about all the flags around you during a speech (not to be used as advertising)

Now respectful to fly the flag of ENEMIES OF THE UNITED STATES which we defeated in war?

Standing has been a treadition for only about (Rounded) 200 years

Kneeling, for over 2000 years.. I have no problem with kneeling to respect the flag..

I do have a problem with the flag of our enemies.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 29, 2017, 05:33:15 PM

I do have a problem with the flag of our enemies.

But you can't have a problem with it !.........It's my constitutional right to fly the flags of our enemies. 

 if I lived next door to you I have the right do it every day in your face !                      (but as we know...some things just aren't right)

is it okay to fly the Vietcong flag....They defeated us ?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 29, 2017, 05:55:30 PM
But you can't have a problem with it !.........It's my constitutional right to fly the flags of our enemies. 

 if I lived next door to you I have the right do it every day in your face !                      (but as we know...some things just aren't right)

is it okay to fly the Vietcong flag....They defeated us ?

That's a good question. I don't think there is federal law against flying a flag from a country that is our enemy. There may be some states that you cannot do so legally. But you are incorrect Tony in saying someone cannot have a problem with something just because it is their constitutional right to do something. You have the same Constitutional rights to have said problem than the person that presented the very thing that created the problem. I hope that clears it up. Great conversation. I am giddy with excitement awaiting the next post.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 29, 2017, 06:04:58 PM
That's a good question. I don't think there is federal law against flying a flag from a country that is our enemy. There may be some states that you cannot do so legally. But you are incorrect Tony in saying someone cannot have a problem with something just because it is their constitutional right to do something. You have the same Constitutional rights to have said problem than the person that presented the very thing that created the problem. I hope that clears it up. Great conversation. I am giddy with excitement awaiting the next post.

I picked up on the giddy a while ago.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 29, 2017, 06:10:46 PM
So if a team owner has a problem with his employees...does he have the right to fire them ?

every contract has a ethic's clause in it..  is it the team owner's .. or the typical pro athletes ethics ?

if the national anthem is a part of the show...is a player obligated to participate ?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Dragginourbedaround on September 29, 2017, 06:25:41 PM
I picked up on the giddy a while ago.
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 29, 2017, 06:30:30 PM
I picked up on the giddy a while ago.

At my age it doesn't take much to get me giddy.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John From Detroit on September 30, 2017, 08:09:10 AM
So if a team owner has a problem with his employees...does he have the right to fire them ?

every contract has a ethic's clause in it..  is it the team owner's .. or the typical pro athletes ethics ?

if the national anthem is a part of the show...is a player obligated to participate ?

To answer your question: If a team owner has a problem with a player.. YES he can fire them.

The Ethics clause.. Kneeling is not an ethical issue. Thus the ethics clause does not apply.

The President telling the team owner to FIRE a player to kneel is both an Ethics violation and a violation of FEDERAL LAW which strictly prohibits any elected official from doing that.. Several years in prison.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 30, 2017, 10:08:18 AM
I kinda doubt that.

If our congress couldn't even put Bill Clinton in jail after being convicted of perjury in a Grand Jury trial......They're not going to throw a president in jail for running his mouth off. 
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: garyb1st on September 30, 2017, 10:15:30 AM
I kinda doubt that.

If our congress couldn't even put Bill Clinton in jail for perjury in a Grand Jury trial......They're not going to throw a president in jail for running his mouth off.

Free speech applies to the President as well.  But my gut tells me if an elected official actually manages to have someone put in jail because the individual says or does something the official doesn't like, he may end up in the slammer. 
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 30, 2017, 10:39:43 AM
I kinda doubt that.

If our congress couldn't even put Bill Clinton in jail after being convicted of perjury in a Grand Jury trial......They're not going to throw a president in jail for running his mouth off.

If you actually read about the impeachment of president Clinton you will see that Ken Starr and the grand jury were outsmarted by Clinton. In order to prove perjury one has to be very specific in their questioning and fully define all terms in such questioning. Did Clinton have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky? Yes he did. But according to the definition of sexual relations that Clinton was given to read, he did not have sexual relations, she did. Clinton did not lie, he just did not expound on his answer. His answer was based on his interpretation of the definition of sexual relations given to him by Ken Starr.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 30, 2017, 10:43:39 AM
So,  you guys can understand my total disdain of our legal system.   

Thank you  :)



Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on September 30, 2017, 11:18:02 AM
I just put this topic on the Unnotify list.  It is beginning to show traces of what we try to avoid - politics and argument where no ones mind is ever changed.  Just too many hard feelings are being created.

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: garyb1st on September 30, 2017, 11:20:39 AM
I just put this topic on the Unnotify list.  It is beginning to show traces of what we try to avoid - politics and argument where no ones mind is ever changed.  Just too many hard feelings are being created.

Bill

X2
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Dragginourbedaround on September 30, 2017, 11:37:56 AM
I just put this topic on the Unnotify list.  It is beginning to show traces of what we try to avoid - politics and argument where no ones mind is ever changed.  Just too many hard feelings are being created.

Bill
Didn't know there was an unnotify list.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 30, 2017, 12:18:41 PM
I just put this topic on the Unnotify list.  It is beginning to show traces of what we try to avoid - politics and argument where no ones mind is ever changed.  Just too many hard feelings are being created.

Bill

I don't have hard feelings. One of the great things about our country is we can argue and disagree. I enjoy these types of discussions. As long as we don't call each other names.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 30, 2017, 12:37:14 PM
So,  you guys can understand my total disdain of our legal system.   

Thank you  :)

Yeah, it could use some tweaking. The poor really get shafted. They are, in most cases, appointed a public defender that tries their best to get them to take a plea. Their defense is mediocre at best.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 30, 2017, 01:35:50 PM
So then I guess we agree.     Same as the national anthem,  That makes it perfectly ethical not to stand up for a judge in court in a court of law.

Glad we're still friends.  ;)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John Beard on September 30, 2017, 01:36:44 PM
Nope, cannot understand "disdain" for the best legal system in the world. To which system do you compare our system. Jeesh...
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 30, 2017, 01:58:17 PM
So then I guess we agree.     Same as the national anthem,  That makes it perfectly ethical not to stand up for a judge in court in a court of law.

Glad we're still friends.  ;)

I have disdain for the inequalities within our justice system. If you want to protest the justice system by staying seated or taking a knee when the judge enters, I would protect your right to do so. Peaceful protest is a right under our Constitution. But let me make something perfectly clear, the athletes are not protesting the flag, national anthem or the military.

 
Nope, cannot understand "disdain" for the best legal system in the world. To which system do you compare our system. Jeesh...

Since I am not versed in all countries justice systems I cannot, with any certainty, say ours is the best. I can say that the US justice system does not treat all citizens equal and fair.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 30, 2017, 02:11:53 PM
isn't the whole damn football protest really just about not being treated equal and fair ?

I guess everyone should take a knee.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John Beard on September 30, 2017, 02:21:13 PM
I have disdain for the inequalities within our justice system. If you want to protest the justice system by staying seated or taking a knee when the judge enters, I would protect your right to do so. Peaceful protest is a right under our Constitution. But let me make something perfectly clear, the athletes are not protesting the flag, national anthem or the military.

 
Since I am not versed in all countries justice systems I cannot, with any certainty, say ours is the best. I can say that the US justice system does not treat all citizens equal and fair.

Inequalities and you want to pass blame on the system...tsk., tsk., tsk. You have to remember that the system is staff by people, people make decisions based on their worldview. If you want to invoke change vote. If you already vote then get involved and invoke the change you so desire according to your worldview.

The protests are about a spoiled adopted child who started off having a tantrum and taking a knee out of his immaturity...the press created the drama. You folks have bought into the drama.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 30, 2017, 02:47:47 PM
isn't the whole damn football protest really just about not being treated equal and fair ?

I guess everyone should take a knee.

I'll agree with that.

Inequalities and you want to pass blame on the system...tsk., tsk., tsk. You have to remember that the system is staff by people, people make decisions based on their worldview. If you want to invoke change vote. If you already vote then get involved and invoke the change you so desire according to your worldview.

The protests are about a spoiled adopted child who started off having a tantrum and taking a knee out of his immaturity...the press created the drama. You folks have bought into the drama.

The system is the people. I do vote and I am involved. I guess you have a right to your opinion as to why Colin Kaepernick started this protest but there are some facts you are ignoring. He is protesting the treatment that many black folks are receiving at the hands of some very bad cops. He first was sitting during the Anthem but then he was approached by a former Army Special Forces and NFL player Nate Boyer. They had a meeting and Boyer ask Kaepernick asked if he would mind kneeling and not sitting. Boyer told him sitting could be misconstrued as disrespect for the flag and the Anthem. Kaepernick agreed with him and that is why the athletes now kneel. Those are the facts. Colin Kaepernick is a very magnanimous guy who gives a lot of money away to many causes. He is certainly someone I can respect.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: kdbgoat on September 30, 2017, 03:29:40 PM
Somehow I don't think Tom saw all this coming when he started the topic.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on September 30, 2017, 04:09:05 PM
Somehow I don't think Tom saw all this coming when he started the topic.

Anytime any of us post anything we can't imagine what it might morph into. I don't think anybody has been disrespectful. If so I'm sure the moderators would have shut it down. There are some of us that seem to enjoy a good back and forth. Are Tony and going to spend a Thanksgiving together? Probably not (I'll be in Spain on Thanksgiving day).
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: LarsMac on September 30, 2017, 04:36:30 PM
You can have pride in your country and still want your country to be better. We, as a country, should strive to always be better. When America was in its infancy only white men had the right to vote and hold office. It took many, many years hardship and bloodshed for people of color and women to obtain those rights. There are many examples of inequality in our history. We as a nation are getting better but we cannot just sit back and say we are done. We have to continue to work to make things equal for all as stated in the Constitution. I served my country for 36 years. I do not want that 36 years of service squandered by our country backsliding into what some call the good ole days.
:)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John Beard on September 30, 2017, 08:50:20 PM
I'll agree with that.

The system is the people. I do vote and I am involved. I guess you have a right to your opinion as to why Colin Kaepernick started this protest but there are some facts you are ignoring. He is protesting the treatment that many black folks are receiving at the hands of some very bad cops. He first was sitting during the Anthem but then he was approached by a former Army Special Forces and NFL player Nate Boyer. They had a meeting and Boyer ask Kaepernick asked if he would mind kneeling and not sitting. Boyer told him sitting could be misconstrued as disrespect for the flag and the Anthem. Kaepernick agreed with him and that is why the athletes now kneel. Those are the facts. Colin Kaepernick is a very magnanimous guy who gives a lot of money away to many causes. He is certainly someone I can respect.

I not buying any of it. Kaepernick has no more of a clue what it is to be oppressed than does the man in the moon. This is about diversion, it's about distraction, but it has nothing whatsoever about inequality. I call double bologna on all of that nonsense. 
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on September 30, 2017, 11:19:41 PM
I love how all these multimillionaire celebrities are portrayed (or Marketed) on TV as if they suffer the same hardships and injustice as the common man.

Jimmy Kimmel weeps for Obama-care..... yet he can afford a VIP suite at Cedars Sinai Medical Center.


If it wasn't for the celebrity double standard system,  O.J. would be on death row... instead of on his way back to being revered by Floridians.   ;)



Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 01, 2017, 08:18:00 AM
And you sir are demonstrating classic white privilege.  If you do not like the conversation, stay out of it. 

Yes, this is a typical response:  "If I don't like what you say then you shutup."   White Priviledge? Really?  Surely you can come up with something that wasn't invented for people of your persuasion to try and put a guilt trip on others.

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 01, 2017, 08:22:19 AM
Didn't know there was an unnotify list.
  Below a post there is a choice to be notified for any additional posts to that thread.  You will be sent an email when there is.  If you have checked that box previously then the box will read Unnotify which you select if you no longer want to receive email updates on the thread.  At least that's how I understand it.

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Dragginourbedaround on October 01, 2017, 09:22:45 AM
  Below a post there is a choice to be notified for any additional posts to that thread.  You will be sent an email when there is.  If you have checked that box previously then the box will read Unnotify which you select if you no longer want to receive email updates on the thread.  At least that's how I understand it.

Bill
Thanks! I knew that, I thought maybe there was a button you could push that would stop the post from showing up in your unread feed.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 01, 2017, 09:50:58 AM
Yes, this is a typical response:  "If I don't like what you say then you shutup."   White Priviledge? Really?  Surely you can come up with something that wasn't invented for people of your persuasion to try and put a guilt trip on others.

Bill

What persuasion would that be?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 01, 2017, 10:07:29 AM
Don't take the bait Bill.      I'm still having fun.... :)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 01, 2017, 10:14:45 AM
Don't take the bait Bill.      I'm still having fun.... :)

Come on Bill, you can do it.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 01, 2017, 10:19:25 AM
Come on Bill, you can do it.

I would love to hear your justification of the original O.J. trial ?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 01, 2017, 10:24:27 AM
I would love to hear your justification of the original O.J. trial ?

Justification for the verdict?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 01, 2017, 10:25:31 AM
Justification for the verdict?

that will work

It's probably going to be the same explanation as Clintons.....but what about truth and justice for all.

Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 01, 2017, 10:40:30 AM
that will work

It's probably going to be the same explanation as Clintons.....but what about truth and justice for all.

Not sure you have the stomach for this......OJ was guilty as hell. The DA's office did a terrible job. He got away with murder then and he sweet talked the parole  board and lied his a$$ off and walked out of prison today. If he would have acted that good in the Towering Inferno it probably would have won some awards.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 01, 2017, 10:53:23 AM
Yes...Then he would have had every exemption from the law .....Black,  Sports star,  Wealthy,  Liberal.... and a Hollywood star.

Peace...I'm out.


(Clinton was guilty as hell too)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 01, 2017, 10:56:49 AM
Yes...Then he would have had every exemption from the law .....Black,  Sports star,  Wealthy,  Liberal.... and a Hollywood star.

Peace...I'm out.

Bye Felecia.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 01, 2017, 11:05:44 AM
I hope I didn't ruin your giddy... ;)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 01, 2017, 11:30:53 AM
Nah, my giddy's good. Got to mow the yard though which means I have to go to Autozone and get a new battery for the tractor. That might make some of my giddy giddy up and go.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Kevin Means on October 01, 2017, 02:05:32 PM
Not sure you have the stomach for this......OJ was guilty as hell. The DA's office did a terrible job. He got away with murder then and he sweet talked the parole  board and lied his a$$ off and walked out of prison today. If he would have acted that good in the Towering Inferno it probably would have won some awards.
Don't worry... he'll be back in jail soon enough - it's just a matter of time. Unfortunately, someone will be victimized in the process. He's no longer a sports "hero" worshipped by throngs of fans with distorted values, who were willing to overlook his criminal and violent behavior for the sake of his athletic abilities. He is who he has always been... just another dirt bag. (I'll bet he doesn't even own an RV)

Kev
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 01, 2017, 02:56:25 PM
Back to what Tom originally posted: I was not born in the 30's or 40's. 1951. But we did many of the things mentioned in the Tom's post. My Dad was a lineman for the IBEW. We didn't take vacations since he didn't get paid unless he worked-no paid vacations. But I don't think we missed them. We went out to eat occasionally at the S&S Cafereria. We lived 5 miles from the beach and often went. Florida has many lakes so we fished a lot. We played outside, like Tom mentioned, until the streetlights came one. The last day of school we put our school clothes away and wore shorts, no shoes or shirts until we went back to school. We played sandlot football and baseball. When we got tired of baseball we played Army using the bats as bazookas and the balls as hand granades. On Saturdays Mom would drop me off at the movies with a quarter. Enough to get me in and buy popcorn and a soda. After the movie I would walk across the street to me cousins gas station. He had the nickel coke machine and those little oatmeal cakes for another nickel. I won't bore you with all 21 years I lived at home. For us it was a good time to grow up. It took me a long time to realize that wasn't the case for all.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Sprucegum on October 01, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
You guys had street lights!?! I was a teenager before we got power.

 I can still remember the first time I spoke on a telephone; I held the receiver to my ear for a moment and my aunt yelled "you have to say something"  ;D  ::)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 01, 2017, 05:32:27 PM
You guys had street lights!?! I was a teenager before we got power.

 I can still remember the first time I spoke on a telephone; I held the receiver to my ear for a moment and my aunt yelled "you have to say something"  ;D  ::)

We lived on a dirt road. When they finally paved it everybody sat in their yards in lawn chairs. It was the entertainment of the month. We also had the mosquito fogger come around. All us kids would run behind the truck sniffing the fog.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Tom and Margi on October 01, 2017, 06:10:43 PM
I was raised in a company house on the Shell Oil pipeline and tank farm.  The highlight of our young lives was when they burned the sump (waste oil) and black clouds billowed into the sky.  We also dug "forts" in the desert (before water turned the western San Joaquin Valley of California into farmland and orchards) and promised to abandon the forts when/if a scorpion took residence.  (Usually, when.)  We had such freedom to play and explore back then.  Born in 1939.  We also were able to spend our summers with grandparents in the High Sierras.  Then, the forest was our playground.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: NY_Dutch on October 01, 2017, 07:11:06 PM
I well remember being 8-12 years old and living next to large a large forest in upstate NY. My parents were fine with me making up a bunch of PB&J sandwiches, filling a bag with dog kibble, grabbing a small tarp and a book of matches, and heading off into the woods for several days at a time. The only requirement was that I had to take the family dog with me since they were sure she would come get one of them if needed.

Every summer, my older brother and sister and I were dropped off at our grandmother's small farm for a few weeks as soon as school let out in May, so we could help with planting and repairs. We went there again as well for harvest later on. One thing we really looked forward to while there was being allowed to go swimming in the farm pond after a hot, sweaty day in the fields. The thing we did not look forward to, was Saturday night baths when we all sat around in the coal stove warmed kitchen waiting for our turn in the large galvanized wash tub. As each of us bathed, the next in line would lug and pour the rinse water that was heating on the stove. Grandma, as the oldest, went first, then my brother and sister, leaving me as the youngest for last. Since there was no one following me, grandma brought my rinse water and then the two of us cleaned up the kitchen and hung out the two towels we had all used. Yep, those were the "good ole days"! :)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 02, 2017, 12:02:57 AM
I still remember that cool fall night (a school night too). With the search lights dancing in the nighttime sky and at exactly 8 pm they unlocked the door at our local Chevrolet dealership and unveiled the all new 1963 Chevrolet Corvette StingRay

My friends and I rode our bikes there hours earlier trying to sneak a look at it through the edges of the covered windows.

got home late,  Mom was mad,  Dad understood.

 otherwise I remember 1963 as kind of the end of peace in America.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John Beard on October 02, 2017, 05:47:29 AM
I still remember that cool fall night (a school night too). With the search lights dancing in the nighttime sky and at exactly 8 pm they unlocked the door at our local Chevrolet dealership and unveiled the all new 1963 Chevrolet Corvette StingRay

My friends and I rode our bikes there hours earlier trying to sneak a look at it through the edges of the covered windows.

got home late,  Mom was mad,  Dad understood.

 otherwise I remember 1963 as kind of the end of peace in America.

How old were you in 1963, I was 9.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: NY_Dutch on October 02, 2017, 08:27:11 AM
I still remember that cool fall night (a school night too). With the search lights dancing in the nighttime sky and at exactly 8 pm they unlocked the door at our local Chevrolet dealership and unveiled the all new 1963 Chevrolet Corvette StingRay

My friends and I rode our bikes there hours earlier trying to sneak a look at it through the edges of the covered windows.

got home late,  Mom was mad,  Dad understood.

 otherwise I remember 1963 as kind of the end of peace in America.

In August of '63, I finished my tour in Vietnam...
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 03, 2017, 08:59:57 AM
In August of '63, I finished my tour in Vietnam...

You must have been one of the first.  In July of 63, I started my tour as a Minuteman Launch Control Officer. My crew accepted the first Minuteman I missile site (Delta One) from the Boeing Company at Ellsworth AFB, South Dakota. Strangely enough that particular launch control center and one nearby missile site are now National Park Service administered historical sites - the only two left  in that field of 150 missiles and 15 control centers.

Bill

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: NY_Dutch on October 03, 2017, 11:15:10 AM
You must have been one of the first.  In July of 63, I started my tour as a Minuteman Launch Control Officer. My crew accepted the first Minuteman I missile site (Delta One) from the Boeing Company at Ellsworth AFB, South Dakota. Strangely enough that particular launch control center and one nearby missile site are now National Park Service administered historical sites - the only two left  in that field of 150 missiles and 15 control centers.

Bill

Yep, when I first arrived in-country, we were still on "advisor" status, and  weren't supposed to fire at anyone unless we were fired on first. By the time I left 'Nam a year later for what turned into a 30 day leave before being sent back for a second tour, the first big buildup had started, and I joked that they had to send in 100,000 troops to replace me. ;)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 03, 2017, 01:48:04 PM
According to the Wall...The first American serviceman killed in Vietnam was in 1956. (an Airman E6)

In 1963 there were 118 "advisers" killed as per this...http://thewall-usa.com/summary.asp#year

Glad you made it home Dutch.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: BinaryBob on October 03, 2017, 02:35:23 PM
In 1963 I was trying to cope with my first grade teacher, Sister Agnes, who really enjoyed drawing blood from the hands of little kids caught counting with their fingers. Her weapon of choice was a metal edged ruler. That bugger sliced like a knife.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: NY_Dutch on October 03, 2017, 08:19:43 PM
According to the Wall...The first American serviceman killed in Vietnam was in 1956. (an Airman E6)

In 1963 there were 118 "advisers" killed as per this...http://thewall-usa.com/summary.asp#year

Glad you made it home Dutch.

Thanks! Obviously I'm glad as well, Tony. I ended up pulling three back to back tours with only a 30 day leave between them, including a break in '64 when my fiance and I managed to get married in Hawaii with only her mother present to represent the family. 53 years later we still tell people that was the highlight of my time in the service. :)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 03, 2017, 09:17:00 PM
Thanks! Obviously I'm glad as well, Tony. I ended up pulling three back to back tours with only a 30 day leave between them, including a break in '64 when my fiance and I managed to get married in Hawaii with only her mother present to represent the family. 53 years later we still tell people that was the highlight of my time in the service. :)

Thank you for your service. How long did you serve?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: NY_Dutch on October 03, 2017, 10:07:16 PM
Thank you for your service. How long did you serve?

Thanks, Tony, I appreciate that. I only served 4 years before I was medicaled out despite fighting to stay in. And that's a whole 'nuther story... ;)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 04, 2017, 08:11:03 AM
Boy this has been one heck of a topic.  Filling 4 pages and a myriad of sort of related subjects.  It has swung back and forth from wanting to go back to the old days (or not) to Vietnam war stories and finally back on a good vibe to good old back in the day growing up stories.  I thought for sure it would be a locked topic but it kept swinging back to a positive side and never quite got to the lock up stage (but it could have been several times).  Wonder how much farther it can go now that it's back on positive ground......lol

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Kevin Means on October 04, 2017, 01:17:16 PM
LOL. Yeah, I know what you mean. Until Tom tells me otherwise, I kind of look at The Shade Tree as a place with a bit of leeway. As long as it doesn't get personal or vulgar, most Forum members seem to find it acceptable and enjoy it.

Kev
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Utclmjmpr on October 04, 2017, 08:02:48 PM
 In '63 I was mustering out of USAF and married my bride in '62,,55 years ago.>>>Dan
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Dragginourbedaround on October 05, 2017, 01:38:18 AM
In "63" I was being introduced to military training at Fort Dix, NJ. At 17 there wasn't much they could make me do physically that I couldn't handle. The worst part was listening to others tell stories about what they had just gone through that I had yet to experience. It always sounded much worse than the actual training itself.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: BIG JOE on October 05, 2017, 04:36:42 PM
Born in 1936 for me.

 If we could only get rid of the TV news media, (ABC, NBC, CNN and the rest of them) we would be in a lot better shape !

Jack L

We agree Jack L !

FWIW ? We are not Dem or Rep. We are just... Only... American Citizens.

WE have quit watching any Main Stream National News, GMA and the like, and quit our local Paper... about 2 months ago.

Since then, Our Quality Of Life.. seems to be a lot less complicated, less stressful, by not having to figure out what is FACT, what is FAKE, Twisted, Bias, or Sensationalized.

It been quite an Eye Opener.

Life Is Good(er)  :) ;) ;) :D
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: QZ on October 05, 2017, 06:00:22 PM
Born in 1936 for me.

 I remember it all, but I still like today better than yesterday.

 If we could only get rid of the TV news media, (ABC, NBC, CNN and the rest of them) we would be in a lot better shape !

Jack L

We just need an unbiased media, one that isn't for or against any party. You know, an entity that would only bring us facts and truth yet how can that happen when ownership of the news media has been concentrated in the hands of just six incredibly powerful media corporations. Because I feel I have found a very friendly RV site I wasn't going to touch on anything controversial but I do believe all of this stuff ties together and we are in for big trouble.  Very big trouble.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 05, 2017, 06:12:29 PM
The news often makes me angry.  Every time I spend time angry I loose a little of the remaining time that I was saving to be happy.

So I am severely cutting back on The News I watch. It's mostly what they are calling "sponsered news" anyway.

The BBC newscast does a pretty good job of filtering out some of the BS.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 06, 2017, 08:00:02 AM
The rise of news to a 24/7 state is a reason for much of the overkill we see.  In many cases just flat out lies or sensationalism based on anonymous sources.  I have always believed that any worthwhile news organization will only print or put on the air stories that have a factual basis meaning no "unnamed sources" or "anonymous sources".  Of course this would reduce the news to about 15 minutes per day on TV and 3 pages in print.  I tend to try and concentrate on the nonpolitical stuff (i.e., Las Vegas) but even that is turned into political haggling in short order.

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 06, 2017, 08:12:59 AM
The rise of news to a 24/7 state is a reason for much of the overkill we see.  In many cases just flat out lies or sensationalism based on anonymous sources.  I have always believed that any worthwhile news organization will only print or put on the air stories that have a factual basis meaning no "unnamed sources" or "anonymous sources".  Of course this would reduce the news to about 15 minutes per day on TV and 3 pages in print.  I tend to try and concentrate on the nonpolitical stuff (i.e., Las Vegas) but even that is turned into political haggling in short order.

Bill

Yep, never have watched Fox and never will.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: NY_Dutch on October 06, 2017, 08:31:35 AM
Having a leader of our country that regularly claims that even verifiable news stories that denigrate his actions are "fake news" doesn't help any. His tweets make great fodder for the nation's comedians though, so I guess they do serve a useful purpose in that respect.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Irover on October 06, 2017, 08:54:07 AM
 8) In 1963 I turned 12! I joined the Army in Dec. 1970, went AD in April and came home in March 1974 (too many broken promises and my father with terminal illnesses) Inactive duty until Dec. 1976.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 06, 2017, 11:14:12 AM
Having a leader of our country that regularly claims that even verifiable news stories that denigrate his actions are "fake news" doesn't help any. His tweets make great fodder for the nation's comedians though, so I guess they do serve a useful purpose in that respect.

Hate to see you turn it political (again) NY Dutch but if you remove the blinders you will see that a great deal of it IS fake news. Just look for the sources and you will see "unnamed sources" or "anonymous sources".  You may choose to accept this kind of source but not me. 
They are being refuted daily.  His tweets are his only way to actually communicate with the public because he will never be heard from people who buy ink by the barrel.  That is my opinion.

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 06, 2017, 11:55:24 AM
Hate to see you turn it political (again) NY Dutch but if you remove the blinders you will see that a great deal of it IS fake news. Just look for the sources and you will see "unnamed sources" or "anonymous sources".  You may choose to accept this kind of source but not me. 
They are being refuted daily.  His tweets are his only way to actually communicate with the public because he will never be heard from people who buy ink by the barrel.  That is my opinion.

Bill

I feel so bad for the POTUS. He is so misunderstood.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: NY_Dutch on October 06, 2017, 12:02:39 PM
Hate to see you turn it political (again) NY Dutch but if you remove the blinders you will see that a great deal of it IS fake news. Just look for the sources and you will see "unnamed sources" or "anonymous sources".  You may choose to accept this kind of source but not me. 
They are being refuted daily.  His tweets are his only way to actually communicate with the public because he will never be heard from people who buy ink by the barrel.  That is my opinion.

Bill

No blinders here, Bill. I did say "verifiable" news. And that has nothing to do with the man's political affiliation, just his mental status...
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Paul & Ann on October 06, 2017, 01:22:53 PM
Hate to see you turn it political (again) NY Dutch but if you remove the blinders you will see that a great deal of it IS fake news. Just look for the sources and you will see "unnamed sources" or "anonymous sources". 

Bill

Reporters live on anonymous sources meaning they know who the source is, but dont tell the public who the source is.  Remember it was an anonymous source, "Deep Throat", that helped bring to light Richard Nixon's shenanigans.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Dragginourbedaround on October 06, 2017, 02:13:47 PM
Quote
Yep, never have watched Fox and never will.
The fact that you didn't mention any other news outlets says a lot.

Quote
Reporters live on anonymous sources meaning they know who the source is, but dont tell the public who the source is.  Remember it was an anonymous source, "Deep Throat", that helped bring to light Richard Nixon's shenanigans.
Which pales in comparison to today.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 06, 2017, 02:33:03 PM
The fact that you didn't mention any other news outlets says a lot.

Just means I have character. I get free cable TV. The two cable news channels I get are Fox and CNN. I refuse to watch Fox. There is absolutely nothing newsworthy on that network. I watch a couple hours of CNN (Chris Cuomo) in the mornings and if I am up at night a little of Don Lemon. The reason I like those two is they usually do not let guests get away with not answering questions.

I remember growing up there was 30 minutes local news and 30 minutes national news. Walter Cronkite and Huntley & Brinkley. Any other news was gleaned from the newspapers. I remember when all the channels (we had three) went off the air at midnight. I do like that I can get up anytime of the night and watch TV. We have Netflix and Amazon. Some good shows on there.

In 1963 I was 12 years old. That was the year President Kennedy was shot. I remember I was in junior high school. I think 6th grade. Sad time.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: yolo on October 06, 2017, 03:12:52 PM
Back to the Silent Generation...
My big sister got a TV in 1950 and we really had a ball watching it.  :)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: SargeW on October 06, 2017, 03:28:16 PM
Thanks yolo. It got a little close to me locking it there.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Tom and Margi on October 06, 2017, 03:35:08 PM
Thanks yolo. It got a little close to me locking it there.

And, I got a little close to asking you to lock it.  ::)   
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Utclmjmpr on October 06, 2017, 07:52:03 PM
 This is the Shade Tree and needent be about RVs,,so,, I very firmly believe this countries constitution should REQUIRE a minimum service to the country from all able bodied persons as Israel does,,to instill a sense of duty, respect, discipline, pride, responsibility for ones actions, and service.....It seems many problems in Israel are created by those that are EXEMPT from this requirement and expect others to do all the work.  As our country ages and the population gets younger,, the problems are coming from this younger
segment of society that have NO SENSE of responsibility to anyone or anything and those that support that position as FREEDOM FROM ANY REQUIREMENT TO EARN IT because they also have never had to earn it.>>>Dan
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 06, 2017, 08:51:32 PM
This is the Shade Tree and needent be about RVs,,so,, I very firmly believe this countries constitution should REQUIRE a minimum service to the country from all able bodied persons as Israel does,,to instill a sense of duty, respect, discipline, pride, responsibility for ones actions, and service.....It seems many problems in Israel are created by those that are EXEMPT from this requirement and expect others to do all the work.  As our country ages and the population gets younger,, the problems are coming from this younger
segment of society that have NO SENSE of responsibility to anyone or anything and those that support that position as FREEDOM FROM ANY REQUIREMENT TO EARN IT because they also have never had to earn it.>>>Dan

I spent 26 years in the AF and another 12 years with the DoD. So 36 years with the AF. I retired from the DoD in 2015. As Chief of Education and Training and Education Counselor I came into contact with every new Airman to the base and most seasoned folks. I briefed and counseled those in rank from E-1 through E-9 and O-1 through O-8. Later in my career I noticed what Dan is alluding to in some new recruits. The AF was never a hard service, like I imagined the Marines and Army could be. The new recruits coming in now seem more entitled than when I joined in 1975. These kids are much smarter than we were. But they come from the instant gratification generation. Some find the military too hard to adjust to. Getting to what Dan is suggesting, I have mixed feelings. I think the structure and job skills learned would be a great asset to these young folks in their future endeavors. However, I have seen what both Vietnam Nam, the Gulf War and Afghanistan/Iraq did and is still doing to these young folks both physically and mentally. I encouraged my son to join the AF for many of the reasons Dan mentions in his post. He was sent to Iraq. He got out after 13 years diagnosed with PTSD. He is not the same kid that I remember. I think I have to take some responsibility for his disability. I don't think I could advocate for mandatory military service given the way we seem to treat these folks when they return.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Utclmjmpr on October 06, 2017, 09:13:11 PM
I share very few views with the "left",, but I can get behind anyone whom disagrees with "nation building" in some dirthole on the other side of the planet as our obligation.>>>D
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 06, 2017, 09:21:32 PM
I asked my doctor once how come all the guys that came back from WW2 never had PTSD..?

He said they did... and that's why they drank a lot of booze,  and beat their wives.      That always stuck in my head.

I was one of only 3 guys that was not drafted in my Basic training company.  There is nothing fair about the draft,  it should be all or nothing.  I have no one to be mad at...I enlisted.

I had a friend that was in the Army (Germany) in 75 when Saigon fell.....he said it was a sad time to be in the Army.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Tom and Margi on October 06, 2017, 09:47:25 PM
 This is the Shade Tree and needent be about RVs,,so,,

This is the Shade Tree, but it has its limits.  There are VERY MANY places on the internet to discuss personal political viewpoints.  If people want to spew vitriol to the right or spew vitriol to the left, go ahead.  But do it in a non-RV Forum setting.   I really don't think it does anything to enhance our Rving shared experiences and belongs spewed elsewhere.  Perhaps the RV Forum should set up a vitriol spewing section ... then those of us interested in enjoying the RV experience can ignore that section.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: SeilerBird on October 06, 2017, 09:50:00 PM
:)) :)) :))
This forum has rules prohibiting discussions of politics, religion and guns. Yet there are a few people here who insist on dragging politics into discussions as often as possible.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Utclmjmpr on October 06, 2017, 09:51:29 PM
There is nothing keeping you from ignoring anything you don't like.>>>D
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Tom and Margi on October 06, 2017, 09:58:21 PM
There is nothing keeping you from ignoring anything you don't like.>>>D

Only our interest in reading the rest of the non-political responses that are posted in a subject with a generic topic like this one.  If you have political views that drive you to expound them to the internet audience, take them to a political forum!
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Utclmjmpr on October 06, 2017, 10:19:34 PM
 The thread is entitled "the silent generation",,all I see is a discussion of generational differences,, the word politics has only been entered in the last couple of posts by the very same folks that are complaining about it.>>>D
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Dragginourbedaround on October 06, 2017, 10:24:28 PM
Only our interest in reading the rest of the non-political responses that are posted in a subject with a generic topic like this one.  If you have political views that drive you to expound them to the internet audience, take them to a political forum!
So you would rather shut down an interesting topic than just ignore some of the posts you don't agree with.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Utclmjmpr on October 06, 2017, 10:38:12 PM
 Oldgater and I have our differences, but he made my point better than I did. If all had to serve the country in some way,, with NO exceptions,, we would not have our returning military being spat on by those who haven't earned the right.>>>D
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Alaskansnowbirds on October 07, 2017, 03:03:21 AM
Oldgater and I have our differences, but he made my point better than I did. If all had to serve the country in some way,, with NO exceptions,, we would not have our returning military being spat on by those who haven't earned the right.>>>D

I have always been an advocate that EVERYONE has a two year public service commitment when they turn 18 or graduate from high school, which ever is later. With no exceptions except for physical or mental disability. This service could be the military or some other public service. I would like to see them bring back the Youth Conservation Corps. They could work in the national parks and many other places. Their service would have to be served a minimum of 500 miles from their home. They could not be accepted into any post secondary education until their service was completed. They would get room & board plus they would have the choice of receiving a small some for pay (maybe what an E-1 in the military makes) OR work for no pay and receive the first two years of college paid for.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Utclmjmpr on October 07, 2017, 04:54:53 AM
 Back when all shoes were leather,, remember the rubber soles you could buy with adhesive to stick on the bottoms?. They would come loose at the front and embarrass the hell out of me, but we were poor to the point of not affording a new pair and had to remove them after school and save them for church and school only( in the 40s).>>>D
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Rene T on October 07, 2017, 05:19:55 AM
Back when all shoes were leather,, remember the rubber soles you could buy with adhesive to stick on the bottoms?. They would come loose at the front and embarrass the hell out of me, but we were poor to the point of not affording a new pair and had to remove them after school and save them for church and school only( in the 40s).>>>D

And how many know what "taps" are for shoes?
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: SeilerBird on October 07, 2017, 05:31:50 AM
And how many know what "taps" are for shoes?
Me 8)
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John Beard on October 07, 2017, 06:06:48 AM
And how many know what "taps" are for shoes?

Me, I wore taps on all of my dress shoes to make them last. When my mother bought me shoes, she bought them a half size large, had steels taps installed so I could grow into them. My father was not an earner, we were on the bottom rung of the economic ladder.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John Beard on October 07, 2017, 06:09:55 AM
My father was an airman in the Strategic Air Command in Beale AFB, CA during the Bay of Pigs. I was only 8 years old but I remember the tension in our household for those 2-weeks.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John Beard on October 07, 2017, 06:31:54 AM
Personally I prefer an all volunteer military. You don't get the idiots, the drop outs, the goofballs who have no motivation. In our military today, as overworked as they are, we are blessed with the countries finest, the brightest, the highly motivated. If you're not moving forward in today's military , you're being pushed out as it should be in every career field.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: SeilerBird on October 07, 2017, 06:49:37 AM
The US is spending over 600 billion on the military. That is more than Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, India, France, Great Britain, Japan and Germany combined. And there are people who want to raise the defense budget even higher? For what reason? To make us safer? Absolute insanity. :-[

http://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John Beard on October 07, 2017, 07:08:05 AM
The US is spending over 600 billion on the military. That is more than Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, India, France, Great Britain, Japan and Germany combined. And there are people who want to raise the defense budget even higher? For what reason? To make us safer? Absolute insanity. :-[

http://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison

I support FULLY funding the military to provide a living Wage to all military personnel , as it is they are underpaid and overworked. Nothing in our country is more important than a strong, well fed, well equipped military that stands at the ready. Heck yes, I support an increase in military funding.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 07, 2017, 07:48:43 AM
The US is spending over 600 billion on the military. That is more than Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, India, France, Great Britain, Japan and Germany combined. And there are people who want to raise the defense budget even higher? For what reason? To make us safer? Absolute insanity. :-[

http://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison

Tom you really need to get some more sources because it seems you tend to believe just the one you cite.  The Air Force, as an example is at it's lowest point since it was established and the  other services are pretty much in the same position.  Military hardware today is much more sophisticated (and expensive) than it was in previous decades.  I really would like to know how anybody determined the military budgets of China and Russia.  I think they are nothing more than WAGs.  Also you may not be aware of what sequestration has done to our military - read up on it.  In summary, I support every dime the military is given and hope they get even more.  I would rather see them get the funds they need rather than the huge amount of waste/fraud/deception going on in the welfare programs.   One tiny example. Why does a poor person need a cell phone provided by the government?   I am a 20 year military vet so I give that disclaimer to partially explain how I feel.  And I am fulling willing to admit that there is waste in the military but not to any degree that would justify REDUCING their budgets.  JMHO
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: SeilerBird on October 07, 2017, 08:06:01 AM
I just threw up in my mouth. :-[
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 07, 2017, 08:16:32 AM
Tom you really need to get some more sources because it seems you tend to believe just the one you cite.  The Air Force, as an example is at it's lowest point since it was established and the  other services are pretty much in the same position.  Military hardware today is much more sophisticated (and expensive) than it was in previous decades.  I really would like to know how anybody determined the military budgets of China and Russia.  I think they are nothing more than WAGs.  Also you may not be aware of what sequestration has done to our military - read up on it.  In summary, I support every dime the military is given and hope they get even more.  I would rather see them get the funds they need rather than the huge amount of waste/fraud/deception going on in the welfare programs.   One tiny example. Why does a poor person need a cell phone provided by the government?   I am a 20 year military vet so I give that disclaimer to partially explain how I feel.  And I am fulling willing to admit that there is waste in the military but not to any degree that would justify REDUCING their budgets.  JMHO

Welfare fraud is not that common. Only about 3% of folks on welfare are fraudulent. As for free cell phones, that is not entirely true. The government subsidizes cell phone carriers to provide low cost cell coverage for folks earning below a certain income. I haven't found a reputable source stating the government buys cell phones for poor people.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Irover on October 07, 2017, 09:33:28 AM
I support FULLY funding the military to provide a living Wage to all military personnel , as it is they are underpaid and overworked. Nothing in our country is more important than a strong, well fed, well equipped military that stands at the ready. Heck yes, I support an increase in military funding.

XX2  ;D ;D
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Dragginourbedaround on October 07, 2017, 11:15:53 AM
And how many know what "taps" are for shoes?
Me! You could buy metal or rubber taps.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Utclmjmpr on October 07, 2017, 11:25:58 AM
 And with the metal taps you would step on certain surfaces and go on your butt.>>>D
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 07, 2017, 01:31:25 PM
Welfare fraud is not that common. Only about 3% of folks on welfare are fraudulent. As for free cell phones, that is not entirely true. The government subsidizes cell phone carriers to provide low cost cell coverage for folks earning below a certain income. I haven't found a reputable source stating the government buys cell phones for poor people.
I don't know if it was reputable but I personally met a family that told me they were on welfare and not a single adult member of the family had ever worked.  Then he and his wife whipped out they cell phones and told me that they thanked Mr Obama for giving them and FOUR other members of their family those phones.  Yes I don't care to waste time looking it up now but there have been programs to give actual phones to those who qualify.  And I am happy to see that somebody doesn't think there is much welfare fraud.  The SNAP program (food stamps) is a prime example of many more than those actually entitled getting on and staying on the program - and willingly bragging about it.  But then I guess I am just a crusty old man who gets tired of seeing our country go down the chute.

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: kdbgoat on October 07, 2017, 01:49:04 PM
I get aggravated at the supposed "earned income credit" too. I can understand getting back what one pays in if their income is that low, but they shouldn't be getting back more than what they paid in.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Paul & Ann on October 07, 2017, 02:16:19 PM
What is the Universal Service Fund?

The Universal Service Fund was created under the Telecommunications Act of 1996...


Why is it called the Obama Phone?

Expansion of the Lifeline program to add coverage of cell phones took place in 2008, the year Barack Obama was elected President of the United States.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: KODIAKHERSHEY on October 07, 2017, 06:23:16 PM
Wow.



Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Rene T on October 07, 2017, 07:42:09 PM
Me! You could buy metal or rubber taps.

But the metal ones were the coolest. They made a lot of noise.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 07, 2017, 08:13:25 PM
What is the Universal Service Fund?

The Universal Service Fund was created under the Telecommunications Act of 1996...


Why is it called the Obama Phone?

Expansion of the Lifeline program to add coverage of cell phones took place in 2008, the year Barack Obama was elected President of the United States.

The Lifeline program originated in 1984, during the administration of Ronald Reagan; it was expanded in 1996, during the administration of Bill Clinton; and its first cellular provider service (SafeLink Wireless) was launched by TracFone in 2008, during the administration of George W. Bush. All of these milestones were passed prior to the advent of the Obama administration.
The Lifeline program only covers monthly discounts on landline or wireless telephone service for eligible consumers. It does not pay
cellular companies to provide free cell phones to consumers, although some cellular service providers choose to offer that benefit to their Lifeline customers.
Lifeline discounts are not available only to “welfare recipients” — these programs are implemented at both the state and federal levels, so qualification criteria can vary from state to state, but in general participants must have an income that is at or below 135% of the federal Poverty Guidelines, or take part in at least one of the following federal assistance programs:

Medicaid;
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (Food Stamps or SNAP);

Supplemental Security Income (SSI);

Federal Public Housing Assistance (Section 8);

Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP);

Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF);

National School Lunch Program’s Free Lunch Program;

Bureau of Indian Affairs General Assistance;

Tribally-Administered Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TTANF);

Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations (FDPIR);

Head Start (if income eligibility criteria are met); or

State assistance programs (if applicable).

The Lifeline program is not directly subsidized by taxpayer monies. It is paid for out of the federal Universal Service Fund (USF) through a fee assessed against telecommunications service providers, who may or may not pass those costs along to their customers:
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 07, 2017, 09:17:15 PM
The majority of the homeless people that live in the riverbeds around here have Obama Phones.  Every other liquor store has a big sign in the window that says "Free Obama Phones".   That way they can use their EBT card to buy some booze,   and a pick up a free cell phone for their burgeoning weed delivery business.   

and the WIC program rewards unmarried women for having a child under 5...so they make sure they always have a child every couple years.    :(

sorry....but Welfare fraud is rampant around here in La La land.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 07, 2017, 09:32:32 PM
The majority of the homeless people that live in the riverbeds around here have Obama Phones.  Every other liquor store has a big sign in the window that says "Free Obama Phones".   That way they use their EBT card to buy some booze and a pick up a free cell phone. ( I heard it was an Iphone too ! )    :(

sorry....but Welfare fraud is rampant around here in La La land.

Facts are those pesky little things that seem to escape you Tony.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 07, 2017, 09:52:37 PM
the typical Liberal...

it's not the results that mater...it is the intentions.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: UTTransplant on October 07, 2017, 10:15:12 PM
and the WIC program rewards unmarried women for having a child under 5...so they make sure they always have a child every couple years.    :(
Just for information of any interested parties, I used WIC for two foster children I had. WIC provides milk and other nutrious foods to infants and preschool children. The rules for the food are pretty strict. No sugary cereals just whole wheat ones for example. The only food provided for mothers are for those who are pregnant or exclusively breastfeeding. They also require mandatory nutritional, health, and developmental counseling. The worse part of WIC was the judgemental, rude, self-righteous individuals who would stand behind me in line at the grocery store making snide comments about welfare mothers and cheaters. Because I was a professional with a good income and wore nice clothes, I had to be cheating the system if I was using WIC, as they were sure to let me know. In fact, I actually stopped using WIC because it was too frustrating. We qualified for food stamps too, for the kids. Luckily we were able to provide for our foster children without these perfectly legal and appropriate supports. Most foster parents can't afford that, so they have to put up with the rude comments. So do the women who are escaping domestic violence or the women who want their children well fed while trying to better themselves.

I generally recommend talking to people who use WIC before judging the program. Then again, it is generally easier to just complain about someone you don't know anything about than try to walk a mile in their shoes.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 07, 2017, 10:38:26 PM
I have stood in line behind a WIC mother that was buying a Slurpy and a gallon of milk and a box of Lucky charms at our local convenience store.

 She just flipped out the EBT card.

The typical middle-east store owner knows no one ever enforces the rules here in America.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Oldgator73 on October 07, 2017, 10:40:10 PM
I get to see the WIC mothers buying a Slurpy and a box of Lucky charms at our local convenience store.

 they just flip out the EBT card.

The typical middle-east store owner knows no one ever enforces the rules here in America.

Typical MAGA guy.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 07, 2017, 10:42:21 PM
and rather proud of that,   I stand up for our national anthem and everything.

The last thing we need is more of the D.C. status quo.

MAGA    and make California great again...(or is that asking too much.. ;) )
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 08, 2017, 06:28:34 AM
Yep, never have watched Fox and never will.

Best for you - keep those eyes firmly closed.  I have watched all the other liberal media and now know why I prefer FOX - for the stories you never see on the others.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 08, 2017, 06:42:51 AM
Old Gator 73 said:  "I don't think I could advocate for mandatory military service given the way we seem to treat these folks when they return."

I had to read this twice before I saw that word 'mandatory' and that part I would agree with unless we were in another world war.  But it appears you had a very rewarding career and yet you compare returning from Vietnam to returning from other war zones.  That surprises me because it is so well know that Vietnam returnees were treated like baby killers by so much of the population yet Iraq and Afghanistan returnees are welcomed back with open arms and a lot of programs both medically and educationally to help them re-adapt.  Many companies today are looking exclusively for vets to hire because of their background.  In short, vets are much more respected today than they ever were after Vietnam.  I never served in Vietnam being in the ICBM program but even I met some lunkheads who seemed to have it in for ANY serviceman of that time.  JMHO

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 08, 2017, 06:48:12 AM
This is the Shade Tree and needent be about RVs,,so,,

This is the Shade Tree, but it has its limits.  There are VERY MANY places on the internet to discuss personal political viewpoints.  If people want to spew vitriol to the right or spew vitriol to the left, go ahead.  But do it in a non-RV Forum setting.   I really don't think it does anything to enhance our Rving shared experiences and belongs spewed elsewhere.  Perhaps the RV Forum should set up a vitriol spewing section ... then those of us interested in enjoying the RV experience can ignore that section.

Yes this is the shade tree and you came here voluntarily - directly to this thread - knowing that some political points were being discussed.  You can easily avoid any angst by simply not clicking on this thread.  It has NO vitriol as you describe but does have some obvious discussion between differing political views from people on both sides of the spectrum.  Sorry you are offended but perhaps general discussions like this, no matter where they occur, are beneficial as long as they don't turn into name-calling diatribes.  For me, this one has not even approached that point.

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 08, 2017, 06:50:17 AM
There is nothing keeping you from ignoring anything you don't like.>>>D
X2
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: John Beard on October 08, 2017, 06:57:18 AM
As a Disabled Veteran I'm proud to be a Vietnam Veteran (non-combat), Lifetime VFW Member, and a Red Blooded American. I'm proud to have Donald Trump as the President of the United States. I'm proud to say that America is the greatest nation in the world, bar none. I stand for the Anthem, tear up when I see injustice, and detest naysayers.

In my HUMBLE Opinion people who slam our great country all the while soaking up the benefits of our Constitution are the worst sort. It is shame these people should feel. It is quite cliche but if you don't like the rules move to one of those other countries.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, and God Bless our President and our Great Nation.

Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: SeilerBird on October 08, 2017, 07:07:04 AM
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
That is so offensive to me. America has always been great and saying it is not great is Unamerican to me.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 08, 2017, 07:11:11 AM
As a Disabled Veteran I'm proud to be a Vietnam Veteran (non-combat), Lifetime VFW Member, and a Red Blooded American. I'm proud to have Donald Trump as the President of the United States. I'm proud to say that America is the greatest nation in the world, bar none. I stand for the Anthem, tear up when I see injustice, and detest naysayers.

In my HUMBLE Opinion people who slam our great country all the while soaking up the benefits of our Constitution are the worst sort. It is shame these people should feel. It is quite cliche but if you don't like the rules move to one of those other countries.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, and God Bless our President and our Great Nation.

Well said sir.  I salute you.  But don't have them move to another country.  Have them open their eyes and help build this country back to where it previously was.  Differing viewpoints are needed but the liberal views of today are approaching a dangerous level - they seem to want to change history and, in our government, do not want to do anything but say NO.  I want to see the Democrats participate in a positive way. File bills and at least find something non-partisan they can agree on. As it is now they simply sit on the sidelines of Congress and chirp chirp chirp negatives.  How about some positives from that side of the aisle.  Yes, they stand for some differing things but certainly not EVERYTHING.  My country is divided.  I used to say it would take another 911 to reunite it but now as I look over the political front I think such an event would reunite only about 60 percent.  The remainder would be supporting the attacking side.  Folks, I would love to see our Congress unite and find common ground on at least a few important areas.   

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: Bill N on October 08, 2017, 07:14:34 AM
That is so offensive to me. America has always been great and saying it is not great is Unamerican to me.

Depends on how you define GREAT Tom.  Unamerican?  Really because someone thinks their country has slipped a notch or two? Seems to be a pretty drastic assumption.

Bill
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: SeilerBird on October 08, 2017, 07:20:42 AM
Depends on how you define GREAT Tom.  Unamerican?  Really because someone thinks their country has slipped a notch or two? Seems to be a pretty drastic assumption.

Bill
Yep Unamerican. If you are a real American you support America you don't run it into the ground. We have not slipped a notch or two.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: UTTransplant on October 08, 2017, 07:29:51 AM
I have stood in line behind a WIC mother that was buying a Slurpy and a gallon of milk and a box of Lucky charms at our local convenience store.

 She just flipped out the EBT card.

The typical middle-east store owner knows no one ever enforces the rules here in America.
The milk could have been on WIC, but the Lucky Charms and Slurpy sure wouldn't have been. Do not confuse WIC and SNAP (aka food stamps). They are totally different programs.
Title: Re: THE CHILDREN OF THE SILENT GENERATION...
Post by: SargeW on October 08, 2017, 07:58:54 AM
I am giving this a time out. I think we have covered enough ground and the political issues are on the horizon.