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RVing message boards => Motorhomes => Topic started by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 10, 2017, 10:11:00 PM

Title: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 10, 2017, 10:11:00 PM
I just registered last week, posting about my retirement plans and buying a used class C within the next couple of years. I just want to learn and make a good decision when we finally get ready to buy.

As fate would have it, the very next morning as I look to pull out of my driveway, I see a nice 35' class A with a for sale sign, parked about 200 yards from my house. I wasn't looking for an A, just because of the intimidation factor of it's size, but I pulled down there and gave it a look anyway. It was buttoned up like Fort Knox so I couldn't tell much about it, other than it looked great from the outside and priced at 28K. Of course I am driving by it every day and looking over at it. I finally thought, maybe I'll call one of the phone #s listed to learn more. Much to my amazement both of the #s are already in my phone. I've known this family all my life and the owner lives just a couple hundred yards away on a parallel street, same one that I grew up on. He and his son remodeled my bathroom just a couple of years ago, spending almost a month in my house. I didn't call, but the next day I saw the son showing it to someone and curiosity got the best of me. I went down there and he showed me everything about it, all of it good. This thing is immaculate, other than changing out the front TV I wouldn't do a thing to it.

I don't know what to do. My wife is a psycho tight-wad and will panic. We were planning this about 2 years from now. I know others will come along, but this one is owned by someone I know and trust. I have no reason to doubt anything they would tell me about it. They are the second owners and have a binder full of documentation from the day it was born. Money is not a problem, we can pay cash for it. I just don't know if it makes a lot of sense to buy it now, knowing that it may not get used hardly at all for two years.

It's a 2001 Georgie Boy Cruise Master 3515 DS. Ford V-10, 26K miles. It is pretty well optioned, 2 slides, 50A electric, most everything power except awning. It does not have W/D.

If you were in my shoes, what would you do? It's a Georgie Boy, that's gotta be a sign.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Charlie 5320 on August 10, 2017, 10:19:40 PM
I'd have them have the slides out and take her down and let her look at it. You just might get surprised.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: rvannie23 on August 10, 2017, 10:23:36 PM
I'm impulsive so I would buy it. You're saving yourself getting another used one inspected and maybe not knowing where it came from. If the guy is your neighbor, then if you ever had a question about something you could probably call him up. I am not big on used RVs, but I would buy one from a friend with no problem. It offers a lot of peace of mind.

Can you store it in your yard or would you have to pay a storage fee? That's a big factor. Paying storage for two years wouldn't make sense.

You may also benefit from owning it before retirement because you can take it out on some trips before you actually retire and would figure out if it's a good fit for you. If it's not, and you paid cash, then you can sell and get something more suited to you when the time comes.

Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: WILDEBILL308 on August 10, 2017, 10:37:08 PM
Depending on price, it could be a good place to start. I haven't looked at what that coach is selling for but 28K may be a fair price. This would let you get some experience and give you a better idea of what you want/need when you retire.
Check the date codes on the tiers. They need to be replaced at 7 years old.  Check all the systems, operate everything and take it for a good test drive. See if you can get to everything you need on the road with the slides in. Test the slides. Run the generator (under load) Air conditioners. Refrigerator on propane and electric.
Let us know and if you have any questions just ask.
Bill
 
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SeilerBird on August 10, 2017, 11:26:01 PM
Take it for a test drive and bring your check book. You will not regret the purchase. Class As are way better than class Cs. I have owned several of both.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Arch Hoagland on August 10, 2017, 11:36:51 PM
There's an old saying..."A bird in hand is worth 10 in the bush."

Me...I'd just buy it. I'm a real man. "DUCK!!!! INCOMING"

Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SeilerBird on August 10, 2017, 11:41:11 PM
^^^^ :)) :))
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: cgmartin on August 11, 2017, 01:56:45 AM
Don't forget the old saying; "If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."  While you may be the man of the house, momma will have to be in on the decision. Before you even let her know how interested you are in buying it, wait and see what she says after she looks at it. Use some reverse psychology. If you tell her you like it and want to buy it, I am almost sure she will say, "hell" no!! But if you allow her to make the decision, and you just happen to agree with her, she will think she made a great decision and a great deal and thank you for being so supportive.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SeilerBird on August 11, 2017, 05:30:46 AM
Don't forget the old saying; "If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."  While you may be the man of the house, momma will have to be in on the decision. Before you even let her know how interested you are in buying it, wait and see what she says after she looks at it. Use some reverse psychology. If you tell her you like it and want to buy it, I am almost sure she will say, "hell" no!! But if you allow her to make the decision, and you just happen to agree with her, she will think she made a great decision and a great deal and thank you for being so supportive.
^^^^ :)) :))
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: kdbgoat on August 11, 2017, 06:16:16 AM
I have said that saying before, and my wife may fuss at me a good bit. If someone didn't really know us, they would think I'm henpecked to death. Yes, she's involved in making decisions, and we discuss everything extra we spend, I mean even for a $5.00 tourist cup, but in the end I have the final say, cut and dried. I often go with what she wants, but not all the time. If I make a decision she doesn't like, she just goes with it and gets on with life. And no, I don't get it thrown up in my face if it's a bad decision. She knows I'll beat myself up enough for both of us.
If the coach checks out, and that's what you guys want, and get it a an agreeable price, go for it.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: John From Detroit on August 11, 2017, 06:29:09 AM
I will say this about the class A.. THE FIRST time or two you drive it. Yes that mother is BIG. and I mean BIG, even professional over the road Semi drivers who haul thousands of pounds of steel say the first time in a class A it is BIG.

But.. Took me about 3 trips before I was as comfrortable as driving my car.

And once I had a trac bar and steering stablizer put on.. MORE comfortable than driving the car.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Hfx_Cdn on August 11, 2017, 07:21:41 AM
     We were in the exact position when we bought our Class A.  We were travelling with friends, I was still smoking, and we stopped to let me have a puff.  There was a coach sitting on the grass in from of a park with a for sale sign on it, we called and DW fell in love with it, 4 years before planned retirement.  We bought it, and used it for 11 years, putting about 50,000 miles on it and sold it for over half what we paid for it.
     Best impulsive decision we ever made.

Ed
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Peteyboy on August 11, 2017, 07:28:04 AM
Our last impulse buy cost us about $200 K,,, YIKES !!!!!  But, we love it and haven't had one regret.  We saved all our life and now it's time to spend.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SargeW on August 11, 2017, 07:36:24 AM
Don't pass up a great deal just because you were afraid to look at it. It's free to look, and there may even still be some negotiating room in the price. That would make the DW happy. Just don't go looking with rose colored glasses. Be critical of everything, including the age of the tires and not just how they look.  Look UP, for any signs of water spots on the roof.

Start the search now, it gives you more peace of mind, and yes, you may find a great deal right away.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 11, 2017, 07:42:07 AM
Although my wife can squeeze a nickel until the buffalo craps, she is the most thoughtful and generous person I have ever seen. If I tell her I love it and want it, she will go along with it because it is for me. Money is not an object if she is doing something for someone else, especially me. It can be difficult (sometimes impossible) to separate her feelings. She can love something, but be so consumed with the $$$ signs that I can't get an honest answer out of her. She's been out of town this week, so when she gets home I'll see if I can get her to go look at it and take it from there. I love her too much to try to trick her into giving her seal of approval. If she tells me she loves it and can picture us in it...well, we pretty much know how that will turn out. :)
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Alfa38User on August 11, 2017, 08:21:49 AM
This may (or may not) help in your (her) assessment! : http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2001/Georgie-Boy/M-3515DS-Ford/3006728/Values (http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2001/Georgie-Boy/M-3515DS-Ford/3006728/Values)

Don't add any options, add mileage if requested. This will at least give you a starting point in establishing a value, however it is NOT the bible. Tires are one expensive replacement should they be needed, check manufacturing dates (7 years old max) as was suggested above.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: KandT on August 11, 2017, 08:34:57 AM
This may (or may not) help in your (her) assessment! : http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2001/Georgie-Boy (http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2001/Georgie-Boy)

Don't add any options, add mileage if requested. This will at least give you a starting point in establishing a value, however it is NOT the bible. Tires are one expensive replacement should they be needed, check as was suggested above.

It does seem highly priced.  We bought ours below low retail from an individual.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 11, 2017, 08:44:05 AM
That sounds like an attractive deal, so take Mama to see it and explain why it's an opportunity.  Assuming you are right about the condition and the present owners, it's may be too good to pass up.

The asking price is above average, but at that age condition is everything. Unlike cars, the market price varies a lot by condition, region, and season, so you can't go solely on NADA values.  If it has been well cared for and lightly used, the price may not too far out of line. I'd negotiate, though, and try to get it for 20k or so.  View the RV Buting checklists in the RVforum library and assess the condition and potential costs if you buy. Tires are a huge expense, so if the tires are several years old, plan on replacing them and figure that into the price.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: NY_Dutch on August 11, 2017, 08:45:19 AM
I first saw our current Class A couch for sale in a parking lot not far from our NY cottage and gave it a quick look. The condition and asking price were enough to know that we would likely be interested in seeing more of it, but I then I got busy with other things for a couple of days and forgot about it. Then my wife went shopping with our daughter, and came home with the news that she had found a motorhome for sale that she thought we should go look at. Of course, it turned out to be the same one that I had seen, and after meeting with the owner, liking the floorplan, maintenance records, etc. we said we would discuss it and get back to him. We got in the car to go home, and my wife said to wait a minute. She handed me a slip of paper with a number a few thousand less than the asking price, and said "Lets make him an offer." Well, we did, and after a brief negotiation we made the deal and gave him a deposit. Two days later we completed the deal and brought the coach home. A few weeks later we sold our older coach, and recouped about 2/3's of what we paid for the newer one. My wife still tells people that she was the one that found our current home, and I don't argue the point at all!  ;D
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: rvannie23 on August 11, 2017, 09:37:20 AM
Don't forget the old saying; "If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."  While you may be the man of the house, momma will have to be in on the decision. Before you even let her know how interested you are in buying it, wait and see what she says after she looks at it. Use some reverse psychology. If you tell her you like it and want to buy it, I am almost sure she will say, "hell" no!! But if you allow her to make the decision, and you just happen to agree with her, she will think she made a great decision and a great deal and thank you for being so supportive.


My eyes cannot roll and further back in my head at this comment. George surely your wife is an intelligent and independently thinking woman who would understand your thinking if you explained why this motorhome peaked your interest. I'm sure together, through honest communication, logic, and reason, you guys will come to the right decision together. Seems to me there have been others in your shoes as far as finding the coach of their dreams before their planned purchase and it worked out nicely for them.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: KandT on August 11, 2017, 10:28:44 AM

My eyes cannot roll and further back in my head at this comment.
;D Apparently, you have never been in the middle of a LONG trip with a Mama that ain't happy!  I don't care what size your RV is - It becomes the size of a Honda Civic.

Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: KandT on August 11, 2017, 10:32:53 AM
That sounds like an attractive deal, so take Mama to see it and explain why it's an opportunity.  Assuming you are right about the condition and the present owners, it's may be too good to pass up.

The asking price is above average, but at that age condition is everything. Unlike cars, the market price varies a lot by condition, region, and season, so you can't go solely on NADA values.  If it has been well cared for and lightly used, the price may not too far out of line. I'd negotiate, though, and try to get it for 20k or so.  View the RV Buting checklists in the RVforum library and assess the condition and potential costs if you buy. Tires are a huge expense, so if the tires are several years old, plan on replacing them and figure that into the price.

Completely agree on the price comments.  Condition and if was stored indoors AND from someone you trust mean I would bump my price up several thousand.  I agree with Gary though twenty thousand seems more in line.  At some point no matter how good it was taken care of it breaks down.  Also, that year has the four speed tranny and I think a slightly lower hp engine.  I think it was four years later they upgraded to the five speed.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: blw2 on August 11, 2017, 10:43:41 AM
Sometimes it is better to just jump, rather than getting caught up in analysis paralysis
But I think with impulse buying it's hard to take off the rose colored glasses, as someone else suggested.
And when dealing with friends it may be hard, even if on a sub conscience level, to be critical

My other thought is, that if this is the first MH you've looked at, you may find that the floorplan really isn't that great of a fit for you.  Floorplan is very important, and if it "fits" you and your needs.
I think what I might do if I were in your shoes, is if after taking DW to see it she's open to the idea.... then I might take a quick trip down to the local RV dealership to step into as many other com parables as you can.
You might get spoiled with the new bells and whistles and that might make it hard to go back to old and used.... that is a risk
you might find that there are features that are really important that don't exist in the Georgie Boy
or you might firm up that it really is a great deal and a good fit for you.

Hey, if it is a good buy even if not a perfect fit, you could always use it for a couple years to better figure out your wants and needs, then trade up later.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SeilerBird on August 11, 2017, 10:50:32 AM
Sometimes it is better to just jump, rather than getting caught up in analysis paralysis
But I think with impulse buying it's hard to take off the rose colored glasses, as someone else suggested.
And when dealing with friends it may be hard, even if on a sub conscience level, to be critical

My other thought is, that if this is the first MH you've looked at, you may find that the floorplan really isn't that great of a fit for you.  Floorplan is very important, and if it "fits" you and your needs.
I think what I might do if I were in your shoes, is if after taking DW to see it she's open to the idea.... then I might take a quick trip down to the local RV dealership to step into as many other com parables as you can.
You might get spoiled with the new bells and whistles and that might make it hard to go back to old and used.... that is a risk
you might find that there are features that are really important that don't exist in the Georgie Boy
or you might firm up that it really is a great deal and a good fit for you.

Hey, if it is a good buy even if not a perfect fit, you could always use it for a couple years to better figure out your wants and needs, then trade up later.
:)) :)) :))
Good advice Brad. I would add that you might consider either renting an RV for a weekend or see if you can borrow the one you are looking at and go camping in that one. Even if it is just an overnight in your driveway it will be very revealing.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SissyBoyFloyd on August 11, 2017, 03:49:18 PM
I will just add my thought.  If you don't really need it for 2 years and won't be using it really, maybe you should figure in the fact that it will depreciate some over those 2 years.  Another words, in 2 years you could buy the "same coach" for less money when you are actually ready to use it.  Also consider that a lot can happen in 2 years and you may be having different ideas about what you want and will do.  That said, if you could buy it at no greater cost than mid-NADA suggested price, you may not lose much if you decide in 2 yrs you want to go in a different direction.  If you pay 5-10 thousand over book now, plus cost of storage and upkeep for two years, you won't be coming out very well dollar wise, especially if you have to sell it.

Now, all that I said is just head thought.  Sometimes if something presents itself to you out of the blue and seems right in your heart, that is the right thing to do.  You can't put a price on peace of mind and 'fate'.

Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: RedandSilver on August 11, 2017, 06:33:01 PM
Well here's my 2Ę.

It's usually not a good thing to let a MH "sit" unused for long periods of time.
This one is 16 years old and only has 26K miles?  That just over 1600 miles per year. 
And now your not going to use it much for 2 more years?

Well you got one part right - I usually tell people to buy bigger then they think they need so a Class A is way better then a Class C - IMO.

Some of it will depend on how you planned to use it - when you do retire.  Weekends a few times a year is way different
then month's at a time or more.  When the slides are in - could the wife walk to the bathroom?  Easily? In some you can't.
Did you ever think about if you wanted to tow a car behind a MH? 

I'm not saying don't buy it - just that you are new to this and probably don't know what you want yet because you haven't studied it enough.
That comes with time.  Yes sometimes a good deal appears and this might be a good starter MH for you.
But make no mistake, MH's are in need of maintenance on a regular basis, unless you don't care about the shape it stays in.

Please keep us informed as to what happens with the wife and how she reacts to this new venture you want to take on.

Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: NY_Dutch on August 11, 2017, 07:10:48 PM
Perhaps you could get her to take a look on the basis of it being a "learning experience" so you'll both have a better idea of what you might want in your motorhome when the time comes. Who knows, she might just surprise you!
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: ArdraF on August 11, 2017, 09:44:39 PM
My overwhelming thought is that when you find "the" RV you both like and want, then go for it.  You've got two years to USE it off and on before retirement.  Why do people always say they'll do something after they retire??  We started RVing when we were in our 30s and we're still RVing 45 years later and well into retirement.  Life is too short to wait to do and see things.  If you want to go RVing then start now even if it's only a week here and week there.

ArdraF
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Howard R on August 11, 2017, 10:22:36 PM
A few thoughts ...

Many folks here would agree that they wish they had started sooner.  We moved up to a Class A from a popup trailer maybe 10-15 years ago.  It was a 28 foot 1999 Coachmen Mirada, no slides, a basic entry level coach.  As I recall it had about 30,000 miles and we paid around 29K (best I can remember), daughter has it now.  We used it on weekends and longer trips ... several weeks out after we retired.  Used it to go to grandkids sports events.  Nice place to hang out when they have a game in the morning and another several hours later.
While wife was still working as an RN at 2 different facilities she mistakenly scheduled a swing shift at one, and day shift 8 hours later at the other.  Got permission to park at 2nd facility, picked her up about midnight, drove to 2nd.  She went to bed on the way (a few miles).  Got up next morning, showered, had breakfast and went to work at 7am, much more rested than if she had gone home between shifts.
Me ... I went home for a cup of coffee and a nap!  ;D

Point being there are lots of ways you can use the RV even between trips if you like.  And it's nice to just get away for a couple of days at a local nearby campground ... no lawn to mow ... can't paint the house.  And really great when on a trip ... clothes, food, bed ...  everything you need just feet away.

Floor plan is very important.  When we looking for the coach we have now, I learned to send wife in first ... wait about 30 seconds, because that was about all it took if she didn't like it.  If she wasn't already back I would go in and look too !  :)

So sounds like potentially a good deal ... if DW (Dear wife) likes it, buying from someone you know and can easily go back to for the inevitable questions you will have ... there is a definite learning curve ... maybe not priceless, but definitely valuable.
Remember we're not getting any younger ... other things being equal, enjoy it.   ;D

Howard
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: cadee2c on August 12, 2017, 12:08:59 AM
Im with the ones who say go for it. Really, there is no reason to wait. My DH and I waited, found a coach we wanted, bought it, now he is sick and will be lucky enough to live till next year. Our travels have to be planned with his health issues in mind, and we can't plan ahead for things like rallys.

So what if you only use it a few weekends a year. Thats a few weekends more than you would have if youd not bought it. I also think that you just may use it more often than you think you will.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Arch Hoagland on August 12, 2017, 01:07:28 AM
My overwhelming thought is that when you find "the" RV you both like and want, then go for it.  You've got two years to USE it off and on before retirement.  Why do people always say they'll do something after they retire??  We started RVing when we were in our 30s and we're still RVing 45 years later and well into retirement.  Life is too short to wait to do and see things.  If you want to go RVing then start now even if it's only a week here and week there.

ArdraF

Amen!
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: muskoka guy on August 12, 2017, 08:05:48 AM
It can take months or even years to find a good used unit. I looked at a lot of dogs trying to find a good one. Private sellers sometimes lie to sell the coach. I have driven hours only to find stuff broken and not working that I asked about on the phone. Dealerships will never give you a good deal. They sell mhs for a living, so you will pay full price. It appears the coach you are looking at is on the high end of the pricing. Maybe they will budge a bit on the price. If where you live requires a  safety inspection, make sure it is included. Even if it is not required, make the sale hinge on a complete rv inspection, even if you have to pay for it. You dont want to pay top dollar, then have to start replacing brakes, tires ect and find out certain things need repaired. This would make it way over priced.  If it is in as good a shape as you say, they wont mind having an outside inspection done. Im sure the sellers would not lie to you, but they may not be as knowledgeable as they think, and are not aware of certain problems. The roof and sealants would require a good inspection on a unit that old. Once you buy it, its your headache. Better to spend a few hundred on an inspection, then be out thousands in repairs. See the thread sour lemonade on this forum. His story is about a trailer, but its basically the same thing. Good luck and happy camping. No time like the present to get started.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: malexander on August 12, 2017, 08:46:25 PM
We bought our first RV in 1997, 23' +/- 5th wheel, I was 38 wife was 35. Don't wait till you retire. Enjoy life NOW. My signature line tell you what we have now.

You said you have the money......GO FOR IT!!!
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 12, 2017, 08:55:36 PM
Well, The Bear got to see it today. Of course she liked it, but without a point of reference she really didn't know how much or little. The seller told us that someone had looked at it earlier today and said they would take it, but he had no money in hand, so we know that means basically nothing. I took a picture of the original sticker with all the options and used them on the NADA estimator. I didn't really understand all of the option choices, but I came up with a value just under 25K. The tire date codes are 3600, so it appears that these are the tires it was born with. Furthermore, the fronts are Goodyear G159 which I understand are rolling bombs, on top of being 17 years old.

So, armed with this info this MH seems to be worth 20-22K. Since we are in no hurry we will probably leave it be for now. If he still has it when winter rolls around I may offer him 20K. Most likely someone else will grab it and start enjoying it right away. If that happens I'll be happy for them.

This forum is a great resource. Just the tire advice saved me thousands, not even considering the safety factor. Thanks 
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: WILDEBILL308 on August 12, 2017, 09:03:16 PM
With those date codes I wouldn't want to take it for a test drive. :-\
Hearer is a good place to do research as they have a section that tells you what things sold fore. http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/
PPL is a consignment dealer.
Bill
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SeilerBird on August 12, 2017, 09:08:25 PM
You are not using NADA properly. You do not add in the options. You missed this line found on every page listing options:

"Option note: Only select options below that are in addition to standard equipment and equipment noted in the manufacturer or year notes show above. If you are uncertain of what came standard, please contact your manufacturer with your VIN."

In other words just skip the options totally. They are all basically worthless anyway since most of them don't age very well.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 12, 2017, 09:12:13 PM
I just went by the window sticker. There was a section for standard equipment and a section for options. I added in things that were listed as options.

It sold for just over 92K new.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Charlie 5320 on August 12, 2017, 09:51:53 PM
I just went by the window sticker. There was a section for standard equipment and a section for options. I added in things that were listed as options.

It sold for just over 92K new.
I don't know how you came up with price. Everything on the coach won't be an option. I come up with $16000.00, which is low retail for that coach. The reason I say low retail is because it needs tires, and those are NOT cheap. If he hasn't replaced the tires, one must wonder what else wasn't maintained. I did figure as options electric step, awning, and hydraulic levelers. Here's a link  to what I think it's worth.
 http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2001/Georgie-Boy/M-3515DS-Ford/3006728/Values.

What else do you think it has as an option?
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: WILDEBILL308 on August 12, 2017, 10:11:14 PM
I just went by the window sticker. There was a section for standard equipment and a section for options. I added in things that were listed as options.

It sold for just over 92K new.
I would go look at PPl so you can get a better idea for what used coaches are going for. There are some nice coaches for $25,000 or less. You might look at the diesel coaches to,you never know.
In gas coaches I would get as new as you can afford. The newer have better engines and transmissions. Plus better amenities. You can get financing on a 10 year or newer coach much easier than a coach over 10 years old.
Bill
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 12, 2017, 10:28:04 PM
I know everything on the coach won't be an option. That's why I only went by what was listed on the OPTION section of the sticker, nothing from the standard equipment column.

The owner is 76 years old and I think this is the only one he has ever owned. Many, many vehicles are on the roads with tires over 7 years old. I doubt that he ever knew that tire age could be an issue. It has only seemed to rear it's head in this era where everyone seems to want to sue over every single thing. I know these people, they are meticulous about everything, just probably don't get, or even know about tire dates.

I have no desire for a diesel coach. The local Ford dealer's best tech also moonlights and I use him when I can. If at all possible I will buy one with the Ford gas powertrain. As I said in an earlier post, I don't need financing.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SeilerBird on August 12, 2017, 11:41:16 PM
Many, many vehicles are on the roads with tires over 7 years old.
Tires on an RV that are over 7 years old are extremely dangerous. Tires don't wear out from the outside but from the inside making them weak and subject to a catastrophic blowout. A blowout on an RV is not the same as a blowout on a normal car or a semi truck. A blowout can do a lot of damage to the wheel well and the plumbing, electrical and propane systems located nearby.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Isaac-1 on August 12, 2017, 11:43:30 PM
As was mentioned the problem is a blowout on a motorhome can easily do $5,000 to $10,000 worth of damage or more.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Charlie 5320 on August 13, 2017, 08:37:55 AM
I know everything on the coach won't be an option. That's why I only went by what was listed on the OPTION section of the sticker, nothing from the standard equipment column.

1 Many, many vehicles are on the roads with tires over 7 years old. I doubt that he ever knew that tire age could be an issue.
2 I know these people, they are meticulous about everything, just probably don't get, or even know about tire dates.
3 The VIN is xxxx [VIN removed at GeorgeandtheBear request] if someone can come up with a more accurate value.
1   There very well be vehicles on the road with tires over 7 years. This coach has tires that are over 17 years old, big difference.
2   with tires 17 years old proves they are NOT meticulous about everything.
3   Go to the link I gave you, that gives the value, you just don't want to accept it.

George if you want to pay 10 grand over what this coach is worth, go ahead. It's YOUR money. There is NO WAY I would pay more than high retail on any coach. Dealers aren't even asking what they are for comparable coachs. You buy the coach and want to trade it next year, you won't even get 12 grand for it trade in. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. List what options what YOU think are options on this coach. Sure like to see the list.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: JoelP on August 13, 2017, 08:51:09 AM
Well, The Bear got to see it today. Of course she liked it, but without a point of reference she really didn't know how much or little. The seller told us that someone had looked at it earlier today and said they would take it, but he had no money in hand, so we know that means basically nothing. I took a picture of the original sticker with all the options and used them on the NADA estimator. I didn't really understand all of the option choices, but I came up with a value just under 25K. The tire date codes are 3600, so it appears that these are the tires it was born with. Furthermore, the fronts are Goodyear G159 which I understand are rolling bombs, on top of being 17 years old.

So, armed with this info this MH seems to be worth 20-22K. Since we are in no hurry we will probably leave it be for now. If he still has it when winter rolls around I may offer him 20K. Most likely someone else will grab it and start enjoying it right away. If that happens I'll be happy for them.

This forum is a great resource. Just the tire advice saved me thousands, not even considering the safety factor. Thanks

But, now you know that both you and your DW like a Class A.  Seems to me you should expand your search to Class As until you find the ideal floor plan and manufacturer and then do a systematic search using something like RVTrader.com.  Now that you have seen a Class A and liked it, you will be comparing everything else to that and and will regret buying any Class A or Class C that excites you less, especially since you now realize that you can afford one of those.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 13, 2017, 09:01:22 AM
Charlie,

1 - I agree, and would plan on replacing them if I bought it.
2 - I still stand by my statement. This is just a lack of knowledge. I doubt there is anything in the documentation for this coach about tire dates. I know that 20 years ago I never heard anything about the age of a tire. I think this is a product of the Ford Explorer/Firestone issue.
3 - I'm confused here. I go to the link and it states an average retail of $24,990.

As I stated last night, we're probably going to pass on it unless the price comes down significantly. As far as trade-in value, I've never traded in a vehicle in my life. I've never been offered anything close to what I get by selling privately. That being said, I always get the vehicle price nailed down before I mention that I may trade. This gets the actual trade-in price and not just the price on paper.

I have the photo I took of the option list, but don't know how to post it here. I could e-mail it to you if you wanted to post and decipher it. I didn't photo the whole sticker, just that section.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 13, 2017, 09:08:38 AM
Quote
I took a picture of the original sticker with all the options and used them on the NADA estimator. I didn't really understand all of the option choices, but I came up with a value just under 25K.

I know this seems strange, but the factory option list for a motorhome is not a realistic way to assess its marketable options. The NADA RV price is "as typically equipped" rather than "how the factory came up with a price".  As typically equipped means the way dealers order them for their sales lot and the way buyers expect them to be.  For example, NADA pricing for a motorhome assumes an awning and generator, whether the factory called them options or standard. On a Class A I think  electric steps and leveling jacks are also assumed.  If it did not have those features, most buyers would DEDUCT for them! So would a dealer on trade-in or re-sale.

I cannot imagine what sort of options a 2001 GB Cruise Master could have that would raise the retail price several thousand dollars.

In any case, the tires are a disaster waiting to happen. Argue all you like whether 7 years is a high risk age, but Michelin says their tires are a useful life span of 10 years max, and then only with regular inspections. Not 17! And I would challenge anybody to find many vehicles on the road with 17 year old tires. Or even 10 year old.

RVs are about the only class of vehicle where the tire is likely to get very old before it is physically worn out (tread wear) or damaged. There are probably some cars driven by the proverbial "little old lady" as well, but those aren't common.  We bought one of those once, a like-new Oldsmobile station wagon that was 9 years old and had 21k miles on it.  3 tires failed within a year!
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Alfa38User on August 13, 2017, 09:15:51 AM
Quote
I doubt there is anything in the documentation for this coach about tire dates.

Documentation?? No there isn't but the tire manufacture date is stamped into each tire starting with the DOT designation. Information on how to decode this  can be found here: http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?action=Glossary (http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?action=Glossary) under " tire manufacturing"....

Although the problem with old tires applies to all tires, automobiles have much less of a problem because they are used much more often. It becomes much more prominent in tires that do a lot of sitting around between uses as in motor homes. 7 years old is the usual accepted maximum lifetime of a motor home tire.

The options originally installed in the motor home is almost meaningless as it is too difficult to determine what was 'standard equipment" and what was a paid for option unless it was something expensive like a 2nd air conditioner etc.The estimated values listed under the online NADA are based on annual depreciation from the MSRP alone when added equipment is not considered and the MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price) is supposed to contain all the standard options prices. The printed NADA book that is used by dealers, banks, etc is much more detailed.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 13, 2017, 09:30:54 AM
I don't get where you guys think I'm trying to justify that 17 year old tires are not a disaster waiting to happen. You're putting words into my mouth. I agree that I would be afraid of them and would replace them immediately. I'm just quantifying the lack of knowledge of a couple nearing 80 that probably doesn't spend a ton of time on the web like we do. That being said, when a tire reaches 7 years old I'm not going to be terrified and think they are all going to pop at 7 years, 1 day.

Once again, I have known these people for over 50 years. Their brother was our next door neighbor, my dad's best-man, and sadly a pallbearer. Their nephew was my best friend growing up. I've been hunting and fishing with three generations of this family. When they remodeled my bathroom we left for four days and let them have the run of the house. These are not some strangers I met through Craigslist.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 13, 2017, 09:35:13 AM
After reading some new posts, I would say this coach is "Typically equipped".
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SeilerBird on August 13, 2017, 09:50:39 AM
I love it when people come here to ask our opinion and then argue with the experts that they are wrong. We are trying to help you. Tires are not going to magically pop at 7 years and one day, however at that age they start to become dangerous. Considering the risk it is an expensive gamble. If I were to buy that RV I would have it towed to a tire shop. I have been hearing this as long as I have owned RVs which is a long time. The RV you are looking at is worth $15k at the most. No matter what NADA says and no matter how long you have know these people. It doesn't natter if it is typically equipped or not. All used RVs are judged by the same standard. It is used so the options do not matter. If you want to overpay that is your prerogative. But since you really don't know anything about RVs I would suggest you slow down and start learning about them before spending the money. As I said before you need to rent one or two and you and you need to drive a few and walk through a whole bunch. Typically I spend three to six months shopping for an RV. If you stumbled into the RV of your dreams on the first one I am happy for you but if you buy it right now I doubt if you would keep it longer than a year. That is the typical lifespan of a newbys first coach. You gotta use one for a while to figure out what it is you really want in an RV.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 13, 2017, 10:05:01 AM
I know you guys are trying to help me and you have. I've already said we are probably going to pass on it, agreed that the tires are dangerous and the price is too high. I obviously don't understand the NADA thing, I was just stating what I actually saw in the link provided. I don't have rose colored glasses on regarding this MH. Regarding the people that own it, I don't need them.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SeilerBird on August 13, 2017, 10:21:14 AM
The reason the options are worthless is because they are usually what goes bad on old RVs. The microwave, refer and all the other appliances are like 17 years old. And the have been living in a bad environment. Motorhomes are driven down bumpy roads at 65 mph and that is very hard on appliances. These appliances are not generally designed specifically for motorhomes, they are usually off the shelf units designed for commercial use. Except the refer and hot water heater which are designed for a motorhome. But the vibration destroys the seals on the refer meaning that it will not keep things as cold as it should. It would be almost impossible to find an RV over 5 years old that the refer seals were still viable. Also there is the problem that these options are not really what the buyer wants, but you can't configure a used RV to your specifications. This is the exact same advice every newbie gets here. Ignore the options.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 13, 2017, 10:26:24 AM
This is the exact same advice every newbie gets here. Ignore the options.

10-4, Thanks. I wasn't being argumentative. I really just didn't understand and that's why I'm here.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: WILDEBILL308 on August 13, 2017, 01:19:38 PM
"The owner is 76 years old and I think this is the only one he has ever owned. Many, many vehicles are on the roads with tires over 7 years old. I doubt that he ever knew that tire age could be an issue. It has only seemed to rear it's head in this era where everyone seems to want to sue over every single thing. I know these people, they are meticulous about everything, just probably don't get, or even know about tire dates."
He may not have known about age of tires being a problem but you should. It has nothing to do with everyone seems to want to sue over every single thing. It has to do with safety. Michelin does say 10 years is the max, they also state that after 7 the tiers should be dismounted and inspected by a dealer every year. So that is $50.00  each tire to demount and remount and balance it becomes cheaper to just get new.  You can check around no tire store will work on a 10 year old tire. Some tires don't make 7 years. I lost tread on a inside duell Friday. I was replacing the front tires as they were 7 years old and had a problem with a 5 year old tire.
Bill
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 13, 2017, 01:35:18 PM
Once again, I agree the tires are dangerous and need to be replaced! I never said they didn't.

What I said about the world being "sue happy" and the "Ford/Firestone" debacle is my opinion, nothing more...geez
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: WILDEBILL308 on August 13, 2017, 03:13:25 PM
Once again, I agree the tires are dangerous and need to be replaced! I never said they didn't.

What I said about the world being "sue happy" and the "Ford/Firestone" debacle is my opinion, nothing more...geez
Just trying to educate you so the Bear doesn't have to. ;D
Bill
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Charlie 5320 on August 13, 2017, 03:50:16 PM
The NADA RV price is "as typically equipped" rather than "how the factory came up with a price".  As typically equipped means the way dealers order them for their sales lot and the way buyers expect them to be.  For example, NADA pricing for a motorhome assumes an awning and generator, whether the factory called them options or standard. On a Class A I think  electric steps and leveling jacks are also assumed.  If it did not have those features, most buyers would DEDUCT for them! So would a dealer on trade-in or re-sale.
Gary, I've looked at a LOT of mid to late 90s and early 2000 coachs. Only about 50% of them had hydraulic levelers and less than that had electric steps. A lot of entry level coachs DON'T come with all the goodies. Many don't even come with an awning or a generator. People forget this stuff when they are accustomed to the higher end coachs.

Just because a dealer orders a coach a certain way don't mean it wasn't an option for that particular coach. How many late 90s Winnebago Warriors or Braves have you seen with levelers?
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 28, 2017, 07:24:15 PM
Well, I'm pretty bummed today. Not because we didn't get the motorhome which I think they sold last week, but the seller passed away today. I knew he had health issues, just didn't know how far advanced. Just reinforces how trivial material things actually are. RIP Fabian.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SargeW on August 28, 2017, 08:17:02 PM
Yep, but that also shows you why you can't wait until "the right time" to make that next step. You may not be around long enough to take that step.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: QZ on August 28, 2017, 09:39:58 PM
Didn't Ford update the V10 to 4 valve at some point? Not that the 2 valve was bad but you may want to find out what year it was for future shopping.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 29, 2017, 07:40:21 PM
Yep, but that also shows you why you can't wait until "the right time" to make that next step. You may not be around long enough to take that step.
But I gotta wait. I make my living off of four car washes that I own in central Ky. Until I sell them, the time nor money will be there.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: SargeW on August 29, 2017, 08:37:27 PM
And that's perfectly understandable George. That comment was more geared for those that never realize the dream because they have to stick around "just a little longer" or "maybe next year".  The one comment I hear most from many new RV'ers is "I wish I would have started sooner". 

When the DW and I retired, we both could have stuck around for another 5 years to pad the savings. But in looking around us we saw several of our peers getting sick, unexpectedly dying and having life altering experiences. We had to ask ourselves "so how much money do you really need?".  We both retired at the soonest opportunity and never looked back.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: John Beard on August 29, 2017, 10:13:00 PM
Yep, but that also shows you why you can't wait until "the right time" to make that next step. You may not be around long enough to take that step.

Not to hijack the thread, but that is truth. Everyone in my family still says, you gotta save for that rainy day. Good heavens. I reply by saying, "how do any of us know the when, not necessarily when we die, but when we just say I'm not doing this anymore, because of health or physical limitations put on us by age". I am at the age where my dreams mean more to me than having more money in the bank.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: DaveSlam on August 30, 2017, 07:36:13 AM
Get the Class A
I have had both C and  A
The A is the way to go.

Like others have said, get the guy to open the slides, spray some air freshener and take your wife in for a look.
Buying something used from someone you know has to have some value.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: JoelP on August 30, 2017, 09:09:30 AM
But I gotta wait. I make my living off of four car washes that I own in central Ky. Until I sell them, the time nor money will be there.

Almost one year ago I was being asked to take on a new position.  I went home an told my DW who said, "Are you crazy!  You should retire!"  At that time I had not done the calculations on whether or not I could afford to retire.  I went onto Fidelity's website and ran the numbers through their simulation and it showed I could afford to retire, but still I was lacking confidence because the future is always uncertain.  That was when I hired an independent financial planner.  For the annual  fee that I pay them they analyzed our finances far better than I could ever have done, including investment, income, insurance, trusts, and more. They helped me rebalance and consolidate. Now I know exactly what I can afford and am sleeping much better in my retired life.  I went from wondering whether or not I could afford to retire to figuring out how to spend it.

Maybe you can't afford this yet, but perhaps you will be surprised.  I only wish I had hired this advice much earlier and I would have avoided some costly investment mistakes.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Steven Mael on August 31, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
Iíd buy it! Why to wait, even though you werenít planning it, once you have it, youíll make a plan of a holiday.
I think itís really important you know the owner, much less stress with all the buying procedure.
Buy it and enjoy before all the cars become driverless  :D.
Seriously, somehow more and more bump into articles about these self-driving cars, sounds quite crazy for me. What about human drivers and the pleasure of being able to control the vehicle? Moreover, they write that people will prefer living in these driverless motor homes by 2040 https://tranio.com/world/spotlight/self-driving-mobile-homes-how-driverless-cars-will-change-the-property-market_5354/ (https://tranio.com/world/spotlight/self-driving-mobile-homes-how-driverless-cars-will-change-the-property-market_5354/)
Well, I don't know where we are going to, it's kind of cheap and convenient, but canít really imagine our life like that.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on August 31, 2017, 02:46:01 PM
Apparently you didn't read all of the thread. I'm pretty sure they sold it and the owner passed away Monday.  :(
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: WILDEBILL308 on August 31, 2017, 09:31:18 PM
Iíd buy it! Why to wait, even though you werenít planning it, once you have it, youíll make a plan of a holiday.
I think itís really important you know the owner, much less stress with all the buying procedure.
Buy it and enjoy before all the cars become driverless  :D.
Seriously, somehow more and more bump into articles about these self-driving cars, sounds quite crazy for me. What about human drivers and the pleasure of being able to control the vehicle? Moreover, they write that people will prefer living in these driverless motor homes by 2040 https://tranio.com/world/spotlight/self-driving-mobile-homes-how-driverless-cars-will-change-the-property-market_5354/ (https://tranio.com/world/spotlight/self-driving-mobile-homes-how-driverless-cars-will-change-the-property-market_5354/)
Well, I don't know where we are going to, it's kind of cheap and convenient, but canít really imagine our life like that.

I think you need to do a little research. To many people think they can buy a cheap RV and live on the cheap. It is more about the lifestyle and not living on the cheap. There are to maney of those fantasy stories on the web.
Bill
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on September 28, 2017, 08:16:30 PM
I bumped into the son (the one that showed the MH) about an hour ago. He told me they sold it for 20K. Guess I should have bought it. Oh well, whad'ya gonna do?
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Charlie 5320 on September 29, 2017, 09:30:38 AM
I bumped into the son (the one that showed the MH) about an hour ago. He told me they sold it for 20K. Guess I should have bought it. Oh well, whad'ya gonna do?

The stars didn't line up, or it wasn't meant to be, ever how you look at it. There will be another, there always is.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on September 29, 2017, 10:40:03 AM
The stars didn't line up, or it wasn't meant to be, ever how you look at it. There will be another, there always is.
It was the "Stars" quote. I use that one all the time. I'm a pretty laid back guy and don't get too emotionally attached to material things. I know the right one will come along, usually when I'm not looking, and we will pounce.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: WILDEBILL308 on September 29, 2017, 08:55:58 PM
You may have dodged a lot of problems. You want to buy as new of a gas coach because they keep geting better and have better drive trains and slides.
Look at some of the coaches in your price range.
https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/used-rvs-for-sale/class-a?sortBy=price+desc&startIndex=48&
Look at similar coaches to get a idea what things are selling for.
THe fall is a good time to be looking as maney want to sell at the end of the season.
Bill
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on September 30, 2017, 07:43:35 AM
Yeah Wildebill, that's good advice. Since retirement is still 2 years out we will probably start looking harder about this time next year. Just by looking at this one and starting this thread helped me learn a lot about what we may or may not want. I'm confident that when we really start shopping hard that we should be able to find a nice rig in our 20-50K price range.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: WILDEBILL308 on September 30, 2017, 10:11:40 AM
The 50K range puts you into some of the better used gas coaches PPL has a 2010 Winnebago Vista w/2 Slides for $47,995. and here is a great coach for the money.
38' 2005 Fleetwood Bounder 300hp Cummins w/3 Slides $47,995. I have a 2003 38N and have had no problems. This is a lot of coach for that price.
 Keep in mind that most lending institutions don't like to lend money for coaches over 10 years old.
Bill
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on September 30, 2017, 01:39:06 PM
The 50K range puts you into some of the better used gas coaches PPL has a 2010 Winnebago Vista w/2 Slides for $47,995. and here is a great coach for the money.
38' 2005 Fleetwood Bounder 300hp Cummins w/3 Slides $47,995. I have a 2003 38N and have had no problems. This is a lot of coach for that price.
 Keep in mind that most lending institutions don't like to lend money for coaches over 10 years old.
Bill
I feel if I stay under 50K I can comfortably pay cash, so no lending institution involved. My fleet at home is all Ford. The main tech at the local Ford garage moonlights and I use him if at all possible. For this reason, I hope to buy one with the Ford drivetrain.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: WILDEBILL308 on September 30, 2017, 07:46:10 PM
In that price range I would seriously look at the Bounder. Better ride and more durable. Your friend can find you a diesel mecanic. :))
Bill
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Sprucegum on October 01, 2017, 09:33:41 AM
Are you sure you want a motorhome? Maybe you would like a trailer, bumper hitch or fifth wheel, towed by a big shiny Ford... ;)
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: GeorgeandTheBear on October 01, 2017, 10:23:57 AM
Are you sure you want a motorhome? Maybe you would like a trailer, bumper hitch or fifth wheel, towed by a big shiny Ford... ;)
I already drive an F-250 and we gave that some thought, but The Bear has Crohn's disease and having a bathroom readily available was more important. Gotta play the hand that is dealt ya.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: Mile High on October 01, 2017, 01:08:15 PM
I already drive an F-250 and we gave that some thought, but The Bear has Crohn's disease and having a bathroom readily available was more important. Gotta play the hand that is dealt ya.
It was the bathroom that put us in a MH, and it couldn't have been soon enough as the DW needs have gotten greater.
Title: Re: I shouldn't have looked...
Post by: skydivemark on October 01, 2017, 03:33:26 PM
I bumped into the son (the one that showed the MH) about an hour ago. He told me they sold it for 20K. Guess I should have bought it. Oh well, whad'ya gonna do?

The way I look at a purchase like this is, if I take too long to make up my mind and it gets away - it just wasn't  meant to be mine.