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RVing message boards => Motorhomes => Topic started by: chindog on August 21, 2017, 07:17:20 PM

Title: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: chindog on August 21, 2017, 07:17:20 PM
The September digital edition of Family Motor Coaching magazine is now on line.  In this edition is the ballot to change the FMCA constitution to abandon the motorcoach only requirement for membership.  The entire change in wording is published in the magazine. 

https://www.fmcmagazine.com/ (https://www.fmcmagazine.com/)
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: John From Detroit on August 22, 2017, 07:57:44 AM
I can remember when Class A drivers were pissed over Class C's being admitted.. This .. May be a fireworks display.. I have no comment beyond that at this time.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: aboatguy on August 22, 2017, 08:06:01 AM
I can remember when Class A drivers were pissed over Class C's being admitted.. This .. May be a fireworks display.. I have no comment beyond that at this time.

Me too!

Concur


However, with the current (RVing )trends they need to adapt or be relegated to increasing irrelevance
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: zmotorsports on August 22, 2017, 08:46:08 AM
I agree.  I'm not sure where I stand yet but I think they are looking at shrinking numbers with only motorhomes and trying to attract additional revenue.  Seems like many people aren't attracted by some of the offerings such as mail service, coach relocation, etc as in years past.  Wonder what, if any, benefits will be changing if they allow towables.

Mike
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Isaac-1 on August 22, 2017, 09:21:56 AM
My concern is this will take the emphasis off motorhomes, and motorhome specific issues, and turn it into another Good Sam's style RV club, just one that is inferior to Good Sam's.  While there are commonalities between Towables and Motorhomes, there are also significant differences, and I feel it is important to cater to those motorhome specific needs.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Mile High on August 22, 2017, 09:39:35 AM
My concern is this will take the emphasis off motorhomes, and motorhome specific issues, and turn it into another Good Sam's style RV club, just one that is inferior to Good Sam's.  While there are commonalities between Towables and Motorhomes, there are also significant differences, and I feel it is important to cater to those motorhome specific needs.
I would agree.  I would probably drop out if they allow towables. 
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Becks on August 22, 2017, 10:25:00 AM
My concern is this will take the emphasis off motorhomes, and motorhome specific issues, and turn it into another Good Sam's style RV club, just one that is inferior to Good Sam's.  While there are commonalities between Towables and Motorhomes, there are also significant differences, and I feel it is important to cater to those motorhome specific needs.

These are my thoughts as well.


Edit fixed quote
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Roy M on August 22, 2017, 10:47:30 AM
You don't want to rub shoulders with us peasants? ;D
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 22, 2017, 10:54:50 AM
Quote
My concern is this will take the emphasis off motorhomes, and motorhome specific issues, and turn it into another Good Sam's style RV club,

I think that is a given if it is opened up to the entire RVing community. Whether it would be inferior or superior remains to be determined, but there is a fundamental difference in that FMCA is a non-profit owned by its members while GS is a for-profit business operated for the benefit of its stockholders rather than for RVers.

For FMCA, it boils down to survival. They cannot afford the infrastructure and services they want to provide with the declining membership. If they have to cut services, they lose even more members. They have not been successful attracting younger MH buyers, so hoping to do better with towable owners. Widening the market is bound to help some, but may not be sufficient for the need. If many MH owners don't feel the need for FMCA services & benefits, why will towable owners feel any different? Especially since their demographics are much like the MH owners who do NOT choose FMCA (younger, family-oriented, etc).

FMCA has also suffered a major financial setback with the declining revenue from their excellent magazine. It used to provide a strong revenue stream that was used to fund extra services, but advertising is way down as buyers flock to the internet for info and the manufacturers concentrate their ad budget on interactive media. FMCA's print magazine is probably doomed, just like most other print media.

Since we no longer own an RV or belong to FMCA, our dog isn't in this fight. In my opinion, though, adding towables won't really solve any problem for FMCA. However, it might be good for RVing to have an honest competitor for GS, and RV owners surely could use a voice that speaks for them rather than for improved profits in the RV industry. The latter, however, means that FMCA would have to become much more proactive in RV affairs, a role they have previously shunned.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: kdbgoat on August 22, 2017, 10:56:00 AM
You don't want to rub shoulders with us peasants? ;D

I never thought that way when I owned a trailer.
I would think they should start a separate "organization" for towables. I thought that before I owned a motorhome, and still think that way. Also, I am not a member, so my opinion really doesn't count.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: HappyWanderer on August 22, 2017, 11:00:51 AM
For what it's worth, we own a motorhome but never felt any desire to join FMCA.

Membership is down in all the clubs. More people are buying campers, but fewer are joining camping organizations. That's unfortunate, because clubs are a great source of information and fellowship, especially for newbies.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Lou Schneider on August 22, 2017, 01:01:40 PM
Too bad you have to be an FMCA member to view any of the magazine articles. I would have been  interested in seeing how they presented the reasons for admitting towables.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: BRex on August 22, 2017, 01:14:12 PM

Our ballot, checked NO, is in the mail back to OH.

Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Paul & Ann on August 22, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
Our ballot, checked NO, is in the mail back to OH.

Would it be unreasonable to ask why you voted "no"?
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: John Beard on August 22, 2017, 01:22:13 PM
I will be voting against the measure.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: BRex on August 22, 2017, 01:26:54 PM
Would it be unreasonable to ask why you voted "no"?

Sure

The information on the purchase, maintenance and operation of Class A motohomes is diluted enough due to the huge number of makes and models.
Accurate and concise information from any rv website is akin to finding small gold nuggets in a bucket of gravel due to the number of anecdotal posts and post replies.

If RV's of all classifications were included, FMCA would become a muddled mess, as are some other generic RV websites and clubs. This is not snobbishness on our part, it's that we don't have the time to read, listen and absorb information pertaining to poptops, campers, TT, fivers, hybrids etc. The brain is too full of info now.

We would support membership fee increase to sustain this association as it is now.

Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Paul & Ann on August 22, 2017, 01:29:32 PM
Thank you for the response.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Rene T on August 22, 2017, 02:15:55 PM
I can see from some of these responses that I would not be welcomed at all so with that, I would never join. I didn't know that some peoples crap doesn't stink and that they put their pants on differently than me.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Mile High on August 22, 2017, 03:30:12 PM

I would think they should start a separate "organization" for towables.
There may be some merit to that idea!

I remember some comments in our Montana owners club about the "arrogance" associated around the FMCA, especially at the gas pump for some reason.  I never understood it.   When we had 5ers and trailers, I never gave another thought to the FMCA, because I knew I didn't belong in it.  I don't have an airplane so I don't belong in the AOPA either.  Now that we have a MH it was fun to join and be a part of it.

I enjoy the FMCA history and charter, and I would support thinning the program benefits before trying to make it fit everyone.  If it just can't be done, let the FMCA die and reside in history and start a new group.  We can store the podium out in the scrap yard with Stonewall Jackson's and Robert E Lee's statues.  The young are forming the world how they want it and I'm too old to care.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: JFN on August 22, 2017, 07:00:33 PM
There may be some merit to that idea!

I remember some comments in our Montana owners club about the "arrogance" associated around the FMCA, especially at the gas pump for some reason.  I never understood it.   When we had 5ers and trailers, I never gave another thought to the FMCA, because I knew I didn't belong in it.  I don't have an airplane so I don't belong in the AOPA either.  Now that we have a MH it was fun to join and be a part of it.

I enjoy the FMCA history and charter, and I would support thinning the program benefits before trying to make it fit everyone.  If it just can't be done, let the FMCA die and reside in history and start a new group.  We can store the podium out in the scrap yard with Stonewall Jackson's and Robert E Lee's statues.  The young are forming the world how they want it and I'm too old to care.
:))
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 22, 2017, 07:54:06 PM
Quote
The young are forming the world how they want it and I'm too old to care.

AMEN!
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 22, 2017, 07:57:02 PM
This YouTube video may be of interest to those who cannot read articles on the FMCA website or magazine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ23izksue8
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: JFN on August 23, 2017, 03:09:45 PM
Thanks, Gary, comments are interesting.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Paul & Ann on August 23, 2017, 03:18:13 PM
The question that comes to mind when reading this post is how many owners of travel trailers and fifth wheels are going to join, and stay in an organization knowing that a lot current members dont want them in the organization?
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: blw2 on August 23, 2017, 03:27:09 PM
and in other news.... Looks like the Boy Scouts of America will admit Girls soon.

Same news, different channel
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Paul & Ann on August 23, 2017, 03:30:18 PM
and in other news.... Looks like the Boy Scouts of America will admit Girls soon.

Same news, different channel

Is the Boy Scouts seeing a decline in membership?  I guess it wouldnt surprise me.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: SeilerBird on August 23, 2017, 03:43:55 PM
I never joined FMCA because I don't like joining groups. It seems like the larger any group becomes the more important the group becomes and the reason for the group becomes less important. Every group ends up with officers, dues, committees and study groups. Then every decision is labeled as "political". I have better things to do than to belong to self serving groups. This RV forum is about the closest I want to get to joining a group.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: John Beard on August 23, 2017, 04:00:21 PM
I never joined FMCA because I don't like joining groups. It seems like the larger any group becomes the more important the group becomes and the reason for the group becomes less important. Every group ends up with officers, dues, committees and study groups. Then every decision is labeled as "political". I have better things to do than to belong to self serving groups. This RV forum is about the closest I want to get to joining a group.

Tom, I used to be of the same mind, but in the past few years I have joined the FMCA, the FMCA 4 Wheelers, a local Jeep Club and I have discovered a new world. People on this forum who belong to the same FMCA groups have welcomed Susan and I with open arms, and in turn we have enjoyed being able to associate with them. I have met people herein and made many lasting memories, I selfishly admit that I am a willing benefactor of their hospitality.   

I firmly believe that the FMCA, and FMCA 4Wheelers Rock!!!
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: SeilerBird on August 23, 2017, 04:04:10 PM
I understand your point John, I just don't need a whole new world. I love the one I have.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: BernieD on August 23, 2017, 04:06:08 PM
When we bought our first RV, the first organization we joined was the RV Forum, then FMCA and then our local RV club. Being retired and living in AZ, we were sunbirds and most timers; generally taking off in early spring and not returning till early fall. We would plan our summer trips around FMCA chapter, area and national rallies and conventions and RV Forum rallies. Moab always started the summer for us.

Over the years, we developed great relationships with people in FMCA and became BFF with RVers that we saw once or twice a year at the rallies. We found no distinction in the fun and friendliness within our local RV club, in spite of the range of RVs from a popup to a Newell, just like we have had with the Framily.

During our years in FMCA, I was active in chapter, area and the national organization and was involved in the effect of the changes over the last 15 years. When we joined in 1998 there were over 120,000 family memberships active. When we sold our coach in 2013, it was under 90,000 and dropping. And as noted above, magazine revenues were falling even faster. Many of the benefits that were available or were added were paid for, in large part, by the magazine income. The value of FMCA membership benefits was well in excess of the annual dues. But over time, the commitment of people was changing with the demographics. People were no longer "joiners" and didn't volunteer. Discussions about relaxing participation by non-coach RVers began about 2010 or 2011. I'm surprised it took this long to come to grips with it.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: John From Detroit on August 23, 2017, 04:52:06 PM
I can give you a very good reason for Joining FMCA.  First they now offer a more or less "paperless" membership so you don't have tons of fire lighter  to process (Junk mail)

Second.. I just put USED tires on my RV (no help there) but in another year or two I'll drop a brand new set of Michelins in this beast.   FMCA has a 'Discount' Program.. The Discount will pay for my membership... FOREVER.   And that is just one set of tires.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: ArdraF on August 23, 2017, 05:08:52 PM
Let me say right up front that I haven't decided one way or the other.  I can see both sides of the issue.  It's sad to see some comments being taken personally because staying as "motorhome only" has nothing to do with whether we want or don't want towable owners, but as someone else said we often (usually?) have different technical needs.  That's why our RV Forum has different boards for Motorhomes, Trailers, and Truck Campers, but we all come together in the other boards dealing with rallies, the Shade Tree, destinations, towing, and the various hobbies that interest us.  When we have rallies I don't care one bit what kind of rig you have - but I do care what kind of person you are.  If FMCA does include other types of RVs I can see the expense of rallies increasing because seminars on diesel engines may not be of much interest to trailer owners who might want their own seminars on subjects that interest them.  Maybe it would be helpful to look at FMCA seminars and see which ones might be of interest to everyone, regardless of the type of RV they own.

There are other factors too.  The idea of "motor coach" would be diluted so the organization's name might change which would mean a magazine name change, magazine content changes, and office expense changes such as for stationary.  It could be more costly than it's worth.  Lots to think about!

ArdraF
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Lou Schneider on August 23, 2017, 05:23:32 PM
Twenty-odd years ago I showed up in Quartzsite in a beat-to-death, parts falling off $400 Itasca Class C motorhome.  On a whim while in the Big Tent I joined FMCA.

No one asked to look at my RV, I paid my money at the booth and was in.

That same year George Jannini also was at the Quartzsite rally in a very nice VW campervan.  After I signed up, he went over and attempted to join.

He had to submit his campervan to an inspection by a "technical committee" who determined he didn't qualify for membership because his rig used a porta-potti and did not have "stand up access" from the living quarters to the driver's seat.

What a humiliating experience!

That, in a nutshell, is what I consider wrong about FMCA and why I let my membership expire after that initial year.  For decades the club was run in an exclusionary manner - as George's experience showed, you needed the right kind of RV (and probably a secret handshake) to have the privilege of joining their esteemed ranks.

It's only now that their members are aging out, causing the club's membership numbers to fall like a rock towards unsustainable levels that they are even considering letting those other, lesser RV owners in to prop up the organization.

You can darn well bet if their numbers were still good, you wouldn't be hearing anything about admitting those "lesser" towables.

Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: ArdraF on August 23, 2017, 05:36:09 PM
Interesting viewpoint, Lou.  I remember George but not the VW.

ArdraF
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Lou Schneider on August 23, 2017, 05:42:51 PM
George had a nice Westfalia pop-top camper based on the later model, water cooled VW bus.  It was immaculate and he was very proud of it.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Oldedit on August 23, 2017, 05:49:22 PM
I think that is a given if it is opened up to the entire RVing community. Whether it would be inferior or superior remains to be determined, but there is a fundamental difference in that FMCA is a non-profit owned by its members while GS is a for-profit business operated for the benefit of its stockholders rather than for RVers.

For FMCA, it boils down to survival. They cannot afford the infrastructure and services they want to provide with the declining membership. If they have to cut services, they lose even more members. They have not been successful attracting younger MH buyers, so hoping to do better with towable owners. Widening the market is bound to help some, but may not be sufficient for the need. If many MH owners don't feel the need for FMCA services & benefits, why will towable owners feel any different? Especially since their demographics are much like the MH owners who do NOT choose FMCA (younger, family-oriented, etc).

FMCA has also suffered a major financial setback with the declining revenue from their excellent magazine. It used to provide a strong revenue stream that was used to fund extra services, but advertising is way down as buyers flock to the internet for info and the manufacturers concentrate their ad budget on interactive media. FMCA's print magazine is probably doomed, just like most other print media.

Since we no longer own an RV or belong to FMCA, our dog isn't in this fight. In my opinion, though, adding towables won't really solve any problem for FMCA. However, it might be good for RVing to have an honest competitor for GS, and RV owners surely could use a voice that speaks for them rather than for improved profits in the RV industry. The latter, however, means that FMCA would have to become much more proactive in RV affairs, a role they have previously shunned.

Excellent comment. To us, FMCA is the magazine, which is shrinking for the reasons outlined above. If the magazine has to serve motorcoach and towables members, we'll all go to the internet more and more, as if that is possible.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Paul & Ann on August 23, 2017, 06:03:53 PM
I can give you a very good reason for Joining FMCA.  First they now offer a more or less "paperless" membership so you don't have tons of fire lighter  to process (Junk mail)

Second.. I just put USED tires on my RV (no help there) but in another year or two I'll drop a brand new set of Michelins in this beast.   FMCA has a 'Discount' Program.. The Discount will pay for my membership... FOREVER.   And that is just one set of tires.

A few years ago I signed up with FMCA primarily to get the tire discount.  The amount of savings would have paid for my membership for about 5 years.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: SeilerBird on August 23, 2017, 06:30:19 PM
Speaking of VW campers have you seen the new electric VW camper?  Not due out until 2022.

https://www.designweek.co.uk/issues/21-27-august-2017/volkswagen-reimagines-vw-camper-van-design-classic-21st-century/
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Lou Schneider on August 23, 2017, 07:36:02 PM
Looks nice, but I didn't see anything "camper" about it.  Just an electric minivan that wouldn't qualify for FMCA membership.  :(
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: RedandSilver on August 23, 2017, 08:49:51 PM
There are many benefits to joining FMCA.  ($50/year or less if you buy more than one year at a time.)

One is their Assist program - if you fall sick or ill or have a heart-attack they will arrange for your vehicle to be returned to your home
and when ready, will get you home too.  That's included in the membership.
There are 2 companies that offer tire discounts through FMCA. There is a magazine which still has useful info in it.
And there are the international rally's which have a lot of seminars that give you info that you might not get anywhere else.
Roadside Assist is $109/year.  And that is just a few of the benefits.

I think for the fairly small investment it's worth the membership fee.

I don't think if they add towables the name will change either which might be good or bad.  They have a copyright on the logo and
are not going to change it or give it up if towables are allowed.

I'm on the fence too.
I haven't read the proposed amendment yet so I don't know enough to vote yet.


And for what it's worth I don't think it's being stuck-up to not allow them (like it is now) as we all know many many people start
very small and upgrade over and over and finally get to a Class A - but to say I'm not going to join because I couldn't before is Silly IMO.
Like I said I think the benefits are worth the small investment for dues.
Personally for the record I have nothing against anyone that wants to camp.

 
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Larry N. on August 24, 2017, 09:41:24 AM
Quote
One is their Assist program - if you fall sick or ill or have a heart-attack they will arrange for your vehicle to be returned to your home
and when ready, will get you home too.  That's included in the membership.

This was my prime reason for joining FMCA and is the main reason I still belong (I almost quit when they dropped that benefit for a while- thankfully it came back). Anything else is a perk, to me. I don't much care whether trailers/towables become allowed or not. But I agree with others that feel the motorhome-only aspect isn't snobbishness (even if some affected that trait), but practical -- the same reason there are separate trailer and motorhome magazines on the market (I don't hear anyone calling THAT snobbish).
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: BigJohn on August 24, 2017, 10:01:13 AM
I camp with people that have all kinds of equipment. I have been a FMCA member since 1994. Never understood the MH only requirement. Campers are campers. The rallys have become rather stale. I think new blood will be good for the org. I will be voting for the change.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: blw2 on August 24, 2017, 11:09:30 AM
I guess I look at it much like Big John

...... That's why our RV Forum has different boards for Motorhomes, Trailers, and Truck Campers, but we all come together in the other boards dealing with rallies, the Shade Tree, destinations, towing, and the various hobbies that interest us. ......
ArdraF

Which illustrates my perspective exactly ....  While I'm aware that someplace buried on the forum there is some way to limit my view to these more narrow topic areas, I honestly have never looked at it.  I log in to see everything new since my last visit.  I'm interested in RVing.

That being said, I certainly don't want to push my broad agenda on someone else... & I can certainly understand folks wanting to stay more "focused"

I joined FMCA after my previous insurer jacked the rates.  I was able to get a much better rate through FMCA...and honestly I never even noticed that they excluded other rv forms.

eh...just doesn't matter to me....
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Mile High on August 24, 2017, 12:24:52 PM
Hopefully the vacancy I leave will be filled with 5 new towable members if that's what they want.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: kdbgoat on August 24, 2017, 12:36:43 PM
Hopefully the vacancy I leave will be filled with 5 new towable members if that's what they want.

I wouldn't just jump ship at the first big wave that came along. Ride it out a bit to see what effect it really has on you first.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 24, 2017, 01:01:42 PM
Quote
He had to submit his campervan to an inspection by a "technical committee" who determined he didn't qualify for membership because his rig used a porta-potti and did not have "stand up access" from the living quarters to the driver's seat.

That's a fact, but I don't see it as humiliating.  There are quite a few Class B's that don't qualify, and even some C's. They don't ask if it's pretty or new or expensive, but it has to qualify as a "motorhome" and merely having an engine somewhere in the rig is not sufficient.  The FMCA ground rules have required coaches to be "self-contained" since its founding and that technical definition includes a built-in toilet rather than a porta-potti. It also includes self-contained power, fresh & waste water holding tanks, and other technical attributes.

If they choose to include towables, those who own park models and pop-ups will will likely have a similar problem, since they typically do not include one or more of the "self-contained" attributes such as holding tanks and off-grid power systems.

By the way, George & Joann have been good friends of ours for 20 years and we have often camped together. And they park their Vanagon in our yard when they drop by for a visit.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Tom and Margi on August 24, 2017, 01:17:40 PM
If I'm not mistaken, that same year or perhaps another, year George and JoAnn were asked by officials to leave the RV Forum parking area at Quartzsite and move the VW Van to within X number of feet of a portable john. 
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: jayc2640 on August 24, 2017, 05:28:35 PM
As a new rv'er, I'm not a member of FMCA (yet).  I have been thinking about joining, but this thread has given me second thoughts.  Not because towable owners are being considered for membership, but about the fact that most of the funding for FMCA comes from a magazine that is dying.  Several people have posted that the funding for many of the benefits of FMCA comes from the magazine.  With that funding going or gone, the benefits will follow.  Then it doesn't matter how many members they have, there will be no reason for them to stay.

This is my impression from info I got from this thread.  I may be wrong.  What does everyone think?
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: John From Detroit on August 24, 2017, 05:43:49 PM
I would not be so sure the magazine is dying.  More like it is changing.. You see in this age of computers many magazines now find that publishing an ELECTRONIC downloadable version is

1: Less expensive (You do not pay for paper,, INK, or postage) and two Well Received,,, (The Subscriber/Member does not have to stow the dang thing or pay postage to forward it) I'm "paperless" with FMCA.,

and as I said above.. When I put new rubber on this ride .. My Membership will be paid for for LIFE multiple times over .
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: John Beard on August 24, 2017, 05:58:32 PM
I understand your point John, I just don't need a whole new world. I love the one I have.

I understand.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Tom on August 24, 2017, 06:20:10 PM
Quote
... George and JoAnn were asked by officials to leave the RV Forum parking area at Quartzsite and move the VW Van to within X number of feet of a portable john.

For clarification Margi, I assume those were officials of BLM, not The RV Forum  ???
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: BigJohn on August 24, 2017, 06:58:59 PM
Brad, I hope you and others that are considering leaving FMCA reconsider and give the org an opportunity to welcome the new members and to continue to provide to all members the services and benefits they have in the past.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Tom and Margi on August 24, 2017, 07:12:58 PM
For clarification Margi, I assume those were officials of BLM, not The RV Forum  ???

Absolutely!  I'm not sure whether they were BLM Rangers or Camp Hosts, but they definitely were asked to move.  RV Forum members would not have done that.  At the time George and JoAnn were a very active pair on the RV Forum and participated in many activities in many different places.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: SargeW on August 24, 2017, 08:42:07 PM
Maybe FMCA rather than "dilute" their MH base, should consider adding a sister club, say something like "FTCA, Family Trailer Coach Association".  The two groups could be "blended" for some rallys, and some not. Make many of the benefits cross over, tires, roadside assistance, heath care, ect. 

Push the point that the club is all about RVing, in whatever you do it in. The life blood of the FMCA is aging out, and there is a strong need to get more younger family's involved. It is a testimony that it is not uncommon for us to visit a campground, especially a state park or COE campground and discover that we are the only MH among 50 towables.

Winnebago had an issue like this come up about 5 or so years ago when their own club, WIT - Winnebago/Itasca  Travelers decided to allow towables.  Winnebago had purchased Sunnybrook RV and started making and branding Winnebago towables.  Now any Winnebago or Sunnybrook towable  is welcomed at the "GNR- Grand National Rally" in Forest City each year.  They made the jump and lived through it.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: rls7201 on August 24, 2017, 09:22:49 PM
My concern is this will take the emphasis off motorhomes, and motorhome specific issues, and turn it into another Good Sam's style RV club, just one that is inferior to Good Sam's.  While there are commonalities between Towables and Motorhomes, there are also significant differences, and I feel it is important to cater to those motorhome specific needs.

And your concern can be addressed by each chapter, IE Trek chapter, Freight Liner Chapter, etc.
If the vote passes to open the FMCA to all, then each individual chapter can do a AYE or NAY to accept others.
The FMCA president (Charlie Adcock) has been a bundle of energy in his support for the FMCA. I only wished all of you could have heard his speech in Chandler, AZ this year.

I was the go to guy of a Commodore user group, many years ago and we started seeing decline. I argued for acceptance of other brands and won. Lucky us, The Commodore North User Group (CNUG) was renamed Computers North User Group (CNUG) and we survived many more years. CNUG was all about computers and FMCA can and is all about RVers.

The FMCA has a variety as it stands now. I can park my 22 year old Bounder right next to your new high end diesel coach and lower your property value, any time I want.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Isaac-1 on August 24, 2017, 09:30:28 PM
Perhaps, but I still see it as potentially diluting the regional / national rallies, as well as other content.  For example if towables are allowed, then we will see a certain percentage of the vendors, seminars, etc. at the rallies focusing on the interests specific to towables, and given that towables account for over 75% of the RV industry, opening FMCA to towables, may be the first step towards killing off the things that make the FMCA interesting to motorhome owners.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: rls7201 on August 24, 2017, 09:52:27 PM
Perhaps, but I still see it as potentially diluting the regional / national rallies, as well as other content.  For example if towables are allowed, then we will see a certain percentage of the vendors, seminars, etc. at the rallies focusing on the interests specific to towables, and given that towables account for over 75% of the RV industry, opening FMCA to towables, may be the first step towards killing off the things that make the FMCA interesting to motorhome owners.

So you are closed minded to other aspects of RVing. Look around you might be enlightened. Maybe you might just learn something that will benefit you.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Isaac-1 on August 25, 2017, 12:39:26 AM
I am not closed minded to other aspects of RV'ing, I just happen to own a motorhome, so don't want to see rallies and conventions that currently cater to motorhome use start featuring seminars on things like how to properly use a weight distributing hitch.

If the towables owners want to start their own towable only organization and feature these things, I have no problem with it, I also have no problem with more inclusive groups like Good Sams including it in their events.

Note I am a member of both Good Sams and FMCA.

p.s. I am in no way against towables, in the past I have even strongly considered buying one, I just don't want to see the only group out there currently dedicated to the specific issues of motorhome owners become a general RV group.  This is not to say that I agree with all things done by FMCA in the past, and while the FMCA has lots of room for improvement, I just feel opening it to towables is going the wrong direction.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 25, 2017, 08:35:40 AM
The loss of magazine revenue is now old news, so I think the present level of benefits reflect the current revenue, which includes membership dues as well as magazine ad revenue.  As for joining now or not, you are only gambling the $10 initiation fee. Otherwise, it's just annual dues, so you can quit whenever you feel it is not for you.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: blw2 on August 25, 2017, 09:25:21 AM
Maybe FMCA rather than "dilute" their MH base, should consider adding a sister club, say something like "FTCA, Family Trailer Coach Association".  The two groups could be "blended" for some rallys, and some not. Make many of the benefits cross over, tires, roadside assistance, heath care, ect. 

Push the point that the club is all about RVing, in whatever you do it in. The life blood of the FMCA is aging out, and there is a strong need to get more younger family's involved. It is a testimony that it is not uncommon for us to visit a campground, especially a state park or COE campground and discover that we are the only MH among 50 towables.

Winnebago had an issue like this come up about 5 or so years ago when their own club, WIT - Winnebago/Itasca  Travelers decided to allow towables.  Winnebago had purchased Sunnybrook RV and started making and branding Winnebago towables.  Now any Winnebago or Sunnybrook towable  is welcomed at the "GNR- Grand National Rally" in Forest City each year.  They made the jump and lived through it.

I think that would be an excellent solution.
I find this whole discussion somewhat interesting.  I'll add a bit to what I said earlier
I joined solely for insurance benefit.  Once I joined though, I looked into the social aspects a bit, thinking that DW might enjoy that and perhaps bolster her RV interest.... since she's the social one.  But looking at the pictures posted for our local chapter, and others, it doesn't really seem like there's others in our demographic involved..... while at 50 I'm closing  in on it by age, my youngest kid is still quite young.   Looks to be more of a grandparent type membership

And regarding the magazine... I now get theirs + the one from GS.  Every time I thumb through them I think how dated of an experience it is.  It takes me just a few minutes to thumb through.  Might find an article that is interesting or relevant, or I might not. I spend more time almost looking at the adds, and sometimes even find one that triggers me to go visit the advertiser's web site.... most mostly it's a quick perusal and into the recycle bin.
   With online forums like this I consume exponentially more content each month....and more up to date and even more relevant.... than the few items that make publication each month
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 25, 2017, 10:31:39 AM
Quote
But looking at the pictures posted for our local chapter, and others, it doesn't really seem like there's others in our demographic involved..... while at 50 I'm closing  in on it by age, my youngest kid is still quite young.   Looks to be more of a grandparent type membership

That's an oft-repeated perception, and if that's the case, inviting towable owners to join won't change anything much. They will just  glance at it and say "not for me".
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 25, 2017, 10:43:45 AM
FMCA leaders are focused on the fact that there are a lot more towable owners than motorhome owners. They seem to ignore that the absolute number of motorhome owners is still increasing while their membership continues to decline. The organization has lost over 40,000 members in the last 10 years, something like a 35% decline even though there are more motorhomes than ever on the road. To me that says that the organization has failed to remain relevant to the motorhome community. The RV industry ships over 2000 new Class A motorhomes every month, yet very few of those buyers become FMCA members. That's what FMCA needs to fix somehow.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: rls7201 on August 25, 2017, 11:28:25 AM
FMCA leaders are focused on the fact that there are a lot more towable owners than motorhome owners. They seem to ignore that the absolute number of motorhome owners is still increasing while their membership continues to decline. The organization has lost over 40,000 members in the last 10 years, something like a 35% decline even though there are more motorhomes than ever on the road. To me that says that the organization has failed to remain relevant to the motorhome community. The RV industry ships over 2000 new Class A motorhomes every month, yet very few of those buyers become FMCA members. That's what FMCA needs to fix somehow.

But no one, including your self, knows what that "somehow" is. The all volunteer leader ship has been thrashing that "somehow"  around for several years, even asking for input from the membership.
Please, Please if any one has an answer to that "somehow", step up to the plate and offer resolution to the issue before it's too late. All I hear so far is complaints and no input on how to increase membership.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Jeff on August 25, 2017, 11:35:00 AM
Unfortunately part of the reason for FMCA's financial stress is the rapidly rising cost of providing FMCA Assist at no charge. It is a benefit that is far more beneficial to those who travel a good part of the year but we provide it to all members. For us to replace FMCA Assist the cost would exceed our dues by a good amount so I do not believe it can continue to be a free benefit.


Also IIRC the Executive Director claimed the membership was recovering.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: phil-t on August 25, 2017, 11:56:04 AM
FMCA leaders are focused on the fact that there are a lot more towable owners than motorhome owners. They seem to ignore that the absolute number of motorhome owners is still increasing while their membership continues to decline. The organization has lost over 40,000 members in the last 10 years, something like a 35% decline even though there are more motorhomes than ever on the road. To me that says that the organization has failed to remain relevant to the motorhome community. The RV industry ships over 2000 new Class A motorhomes every month, yet very few of those buyers become FMCA members. That's what FMCA needs to fix somehow.
Who/what dealer, what manufacturer, or group of dealers sell the most of those new motorhomes?  To me, FMCA (and I am brand new to motorhomes/RVs, and not yet an FMCA member) should be addressing those manufacturers and dealers to be "pushing" the FMCA organization.  I never even heard about "FMCA" before getting on this, and other, RV forums.
 Much like CampingWorld "pushes" Good Sam?  New/young folks that are in the market for a motorhome are also in the market for the benefits that FMCA can provide.
Just an opinion from an "outsider". 
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: blw2 on August 25, 2017, 12:09:26 PM
But no one, including your self, knows what that "somehow" is. The all volunteer leader ship has been thrashing that "somehow"  around for several years, even asking for input from the membership.

my 2 cents worth.... I hinted at it in my previous post
but I think it has to do with a very dated and stagnant business model.
By the time the magazine hits my mailbox it's obsolete.... well not really, since the subject matter for the most part isn't so time sensitive....but still it's a similar idea... very limited amount of content, very slow to receive
when i can get exponentially more online just by visiting rvforum or youtube...and instantly too....
When i first joined I considered ordering an atlas just to have on-hand as a reference back-up.  They had sent some coupon in my membership packet ($5 off maybe?)  I was was surprised to see that it was a mail order format.  At that point they didn't even have an online order option!

So...I would think to really get some young folks in on staff or as a consultant to revamp everything.  Get in on the whole facebook/instagram/twitter concept
Set up a website that is a true resource
lots of info, entertainment, perhaps a good forum like this one, reference materials, perhaps some navigation tools
perhaps some useful smartphone apps....
perhaps driving training courses for new RV'ers

Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: winona on August 25, 2017, 01:35:14 PM
Interesting thread.  I didn't even know of FMCA until my first GNR 3 years ago, and then no one explained or said what these oval tags were.  Might do Winnebago good to also include FMCA information along with WIT.

Magazines and anything in print is slowly falling by the wayside.  I prefer the feel of paper in my hand, not in print on my iPad.  Just today I read the Ft. Wayne, Indiana newspaper is going only to digital.  So much for the thump of the paper landing on a doorstep.

Many organizations have trouble getting new blood.  Look at the Masons, the Lions, and the women's groups like PEO.  I'm guessing the younger generation connects just thru their smart phones??

I just joined FMCA, partially for benefits and maybe also to meet some new people.  Just as I have trouble finding friends who have a horse and want to trail ride, I have trouble finding friends who have a motorhome or trailer and who like to camp.

I enjoy this forum for the information.  Motorhome and the FMCA might have an article pertinent to me but over time, become repetitive, just like Horse and Rider magazine and even Better Homes and Gardens.  How much new stuff can be printed each month?

As far as the vote, I don't know.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: John Beard on August 25, 2017, 01:53:46 PM
FMCA leaders are focused on the fact that there are a lot more towable owners than motorhome owners. They seem to ignore that the absolute number of motorhome owners is still increasing while their membership continues to decline. The organization has lost over 40,000 members in the last 10 years, something like a 35% decline even though there are more motorhomes than ever on the road. To me that says that the organization has failed to remain relevant to the motorhome community. The RV industry ships over 2000 new Class A motorhomes every month, yet very few of those buyers become FMCA members. That's what FMCA needs to fix somehow.

Spot on.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Paul & Ann on August 25, 2017, 01:56:30 PM
The question I have is, can the FMCA be fixed?  The world has changed so much since it's heyday.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: kdbgoat on August 25, 2017, 01:56:53 PM
Unfortunately, they also have a mostly undeserved reputation of having snotty members. When we started RV'ing a few years ago, I asked some fellow campers what the FMCA oval on motorhomes was? Most of the answers I received was it was a club that was for the hoity-toity people (snots). Sadly, that is, for the most part, not true. I have found quite a few that are pretty much the same as everybody else. Yes, I have ran across a few snots with the oval, but I have have also ran across snots that didn't display the oval, or even have a motorhome. Every faction has their 10%. When something negative starts getting spread around, whether true or not, it becomes "the truth" and like most negative stuff, goes like wildfire.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Mile High on August 25, 2017, 02:21:08 PM
I helped start up an ownership group for a 5er we had, and ironically the model used was FMCA.  The biggest reason for it's modest success is it is brand specific which automatically builds somewhat of a bond between members.  It is a paid site that sponsors rallies, discounts, and most importantly - a top notch forum.  The forum is the common thread that keeps it alive and is a conduit of communication for the group not otherwise available.  They have a newsletter, but it slow getting off the ground and I don't think it will survive long for all the reasons stated above about the magazine.

To me, FMCA needs to dump that awful forum and investigate something new.  Forget the magazine, and remain loyal to the exclusivity of the following it was founded on.  I didn't buy membership for travel insurance (I would pay extra if I wanted it).  The vehicle insurance offer was more expensive than what I found on my own, and the tire discount is easily obtained over the counter at Michelin without FMCA as I have heard.   I bought membership because I always admired it as an exclusive club that I fit in now.   Let the towables fit into a sister group.     

 
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: rls7201 on August 25, 2017, 04:13:22 PM
my 2 cents worth.... I hinted at it in my previous post
but I think it has to do with a very dated and stagnant business model.
By the time the magazine hits my mailbox it's obsolete.... well not really, since the subject matter for the most part isn't so time sensitive....but still it's a similar idea... very limited amount of content, very slow to receive
when i can get exponentially more online just by visiting rvforum or youtube...and instantly too....
When i first joined I considered ordering an atlas just to have on-hand as a reference back-up.  They had sent some coupon in my membership packet ($5 off maybe?)  I was was surprised to see that it was a mail order format.  At that point they didn't even have an online order option!

So...I would think to really get some young folks in on staff or as a consultant to revamp everything.  Get in on the whole facebook/instagram/twitter concept
Set up a website that is a true resource
lots of info, entertainment, perhaps a good forum like this one, reference materials, perhaps some navigation tools
perhaps some useful smartphone apps....
perhaps driving training courses for new RV'ers

Good stuff..............I'll make sure your 2˘ worth is in the FMCA Prez' mail box.

Thanks

And a response from Jon Walker (FMCA Prez)

"Go to www.JoinJonsJourney.com.

Sign up to receive my updates on my journey as your new President.  We are posting to our FMCA website blogs, to the RVillage site blogs, to the Facebook posts, and to the Tweeter posts.  Beyond my comprehension,…..but is the way our new, younger staff wants me to keep up with members between issues of the magazine……..so……….Join Jon’s Journey!!

Looks like FMCA is not as much of a "stagnant business model" as you anticipated. There may be hope yet.

Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 26, 2017, 10:20:56 AM
It's not a simple problem to change a culture and a perception. I think there are several areas that FMCA needs to attack aggressively IF they want to become a larger and more effective organization rather than just a social club. But they probably need to change only if they want to continue to provide expensive free benefits, e.g. the FMCA Assist.

Areas that I would address include:

1. Better brand marketing and name recognition. Many people simply don't know it exists or what its member benefits are.

2. There is no active program to reach and enlist new motorhome buyers. This goes hand in hand with #1.

3. Become a better resource for its members, both technically and socially. There could be a huge repository of knowledge available thru FMCA, e.g. brand & model info, tech articles on 100's of topics, reviews and info, etc. FMCA already has a forum, but it has low activity and lacks things like the Library and Glossary we have here. If a volunteer site like this can manage that, why not one with a paid staff?

4. Strive to become a voice for motorhome owners, proactively pushing for improved quality, new standards for RV systems and components, provide amicus curiae opinions to courts and legislatures on RV-related topics, etc. This is a major cultural change for FMCA - they have a long history of neutrality and avoiding positions on anything. That was probably an outgrowth of their historically friendly relations with RV makers and their magazine advertisers, but that no longer seems to be a benefit to the organization, nor what younger and more opinionated owners are looking for.

5. Become more active in RVing discount programs and product programs. Some effort has been made on this, e.g. the tire discount program, but the RV park discount program is a flop and there is no fuel or travel discount program at all that I know of.  This area ties back to #4 - the FMCA label has to stand for something in order to gain traction with vendors. Strict neutrality in products & services avoids enemies but wins no friends.

None of this is easy to achieve. It probably needs more marketing experts on the FMCA staff or as consultants, but it also requires a major cultural shift ah FMCA HQ.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Lou Schneider on August 26, 2017, 11:32:18 AM

4. Strive to become a voice for motorhome owners, proactively pushing for improved quality, new standards for RV systems and components, provide amicus curiae opinions to courts and legislatures on RV-related topics, etc. This is a major cultural change for FMCA - they have a long history of neutrality and avoiding positions on anything. That was probably an outgrowth of their historically friendly relations with RV makers and their magazine advertisers, but that no longer seems to be a benefit to the organization, nor what younger and more opinionated owners are looking for.

More likely this is due to the limits on political activity imposed by FMCA's tax exempt, non-profit status.  This includes limits on how much they can spend on lobbying.

I used to work for a 501c3 organization in a similar situation (the non-profit provided the operating funds for a radio station) and we had to be very careful how we interfaced with the political world.  Neutrality is the goal, advocate too heavily for one side or the other and you place the tax exempt status of the organization in jeopardy.

Escapees and Good Sam are tax paying, for-profit organizations so they're free to spend as much as they want on political activities, and both are vocal lobbyists for RVers rights.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Mile High on August 26, 2017, 12:31:21 PM
More likely this is due to the limits on political activity imposed by FMCA's tax exempt, non-profit status.  This includes limits on how much they can spend on lobbying.

I used to work for a 501c3 organization in a similar situation (the non-profit provided the operating funds for a radio station) and we had to be very careful how we interfaced with the political world.  Neutrality is the goal, advocate too heavily for one side or the other and you place the tax exempt status of the organization in jeopardy.

Escapees and Good Sam are tax paying, for-profit organizations so they're free to spend as much as they want on political activities, and both are vocal lobbyists for RVers rights.
So what is the strategic benefit of them staying as non-profit?  Maybe they should convert if it works for the others.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: mweber (KC9NPT) on August 26, 2017, 12:33:57 PM
I helped start up an ownership group for a 5er we had, and ironically the model used was FMCA.  The biggest reason for it's modest success is it is brand specific which automatically builds somewhat of a bond between members.  It is a paid site that sponsors rallies, discounts, and most importantly - a top notch forum.  The forum is the common thread that keeps it alive and is a conduit of communication for the group not otherwise available.  They have a newsletter, but it slow getting off the ground and I don't think it will survive long for all the reasons stated above about the magazine.

To me, FMCA needs to dump that awful forum and investigate something new.  Forget the magazine, and remain loyal to the exclusivity of the following it was founded on.  I didn't buy membership for travel insurance (I would pay extra if I wanted it).  The vehicle insurance offer was more expensive than what I found on my own, and the tire discount is easily obtained over the counter at Michelin without FMCA as I have heard.   I bought membership because I always admired it as an exclusive club that I fit in now.   Let the towables fit into a sister group.     

But yet you're a member of WIT that also allows towables without a sister group
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Betty Brewer on August 26, 2017, 03:43:22 PM
I am a long time ( 20 year plus)  RVForum member and a long time FMCA member.  I  am a volunteer in both organizations.  I was an officer in our  4 Wheeler Chapter  and did several seminars on FMCA member benefits.  What has been said about declining  membership in the National Organization was true until this past year where there was a slight gain in membership.  One of the most important issues for me in FMCA is the medical evacuation program.  Should  my husband have a medical emergency that  renders him unable to drive our motorhome, FMCAssist will arrange someone to transport our rig home. They will also fly in a family member to drive our rig home, they would transport him to  another medical facility providing all  procedures are followed.  Just last Monday I called 911 and had husband transported to Emergency Hospital in Salida,  Colorado.  It was  25 miles from our campground. You can bet I was grateful to have my $60 FMCA membership in hand as all kinds of possible scenarios could have followed.  Thankfully all is well now but what price insurance for peace of mind?

We also partake of  FMCA Rallies, Conventions and Shows. We  use the tire discount. We read the magazine. We go on caravans.  We have long time friends on this RVForum who have travel trailers and 5th wheels. As Charlie Adcock  past president said , it is all about having fun.  As RVers do we  care what our friends drive? The FMCA organization  is aging, fewer new members are joining.  If younger members join, our  benefits can remain as actuaries base rates on age. I am  voting IN FAVOR of the move to allow towables in order to  make  FMCA more viable with the possibility of new members. I see no down side to the move.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Mile High on August 26, 2017, 03:46:26 PM
But yet you're a member of WIT that also allows towables without a sister group
But I didn't join WIT because of exclusivity to motorhomes, I joined WIT because of the exclusivity to Winnebago/Itasca.  If they started allowing Tiffen or Bighorn owners to join, I would drop them too.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Oldedit on August 26, 2017, 03:53:35 PM
I am a long time ( 20 year plus)  RVForum member and a long time FMCA member.  I  am a volunteer in both organizations.  I was an officer in our  4 Wheeler Chapter  and did several seminars on FMCA member benefits.  What has been said about declining  membership in the National Organization was true until this past year where there was a slight gain in membership.  One of the most important issues for me in FMCA is the medical evacuation program.  Should  my husband have a medical emergency that  renders him unable to drive our motorhome, FMCAssist will arrange someone to transport our rig home. They will also fly in a family member to drive our rig home, they would transport him to  another medical facility providing all  procedures are followed.  Just last Monday I called 911 and had husband transported to Emergency Hospital in Salida,  Colorado.  It was  25 miles from our campground. You can bet I was grateful to have my $60 FMCA membership in hand as all kinds of possible scenarios could have followed.  Thankfully all is well now but what price insurance for peace of mind?

We also partake of  FMCA Rallies, Conventions and Shows. We  use the tire discount. We read the magazine. We go on caravans.  We have long time friends on this RVForum who have travel trailers and 5th wheels. As Charlie Adcock  past president said , it is all about having fun.  As RVers do we  care what our friends drive? The FMCA organization  is aging, fewer new members are joining.  If younger members join, our  benefits can remain as actuaries base rates on age. I am  voting IN FAVOR of the move to allow towables in order to  make  FMCA more viable with the possibility of new members. I see no down side to the move.

Good post, Betty. Susan agrees with you. I kinda don't, but WTH. We'll vote with you. Glad all is well.

Don
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: John Beard on August 26, 2017, 03:59:31 PM
I am a long time ( 20 year plus)  RVForum member and a long time FMCA member.  I  am a volunteer in both organizations.  I was an officer in our  4 Wheeler Chapter  and did several seminars on FMCA member benefits.  What has been said about declining  membership in the National Organization was true until this past year where there was a slight gain in membership.  One of the most important issues for me in FMCA is the medical evacuation program.  Should  my husband have a medical emergency that  renders him unable to drive our motorhome, FMCAssist will arrange someone to transport our rig home. They will also fly in a family member to drive our rig home, they would transport him to  another medical facility providing all  procedures are followed.  Just last Monday I called 911 and had husband transported to Emergency Hospital in Salida,  Colorado.  It was  25 miles from our campground. You can bet I was grateful to have my $60 FMCA membership in hand as all kinds of possible scenarios could have followed.  Thankfully all is well now but what price insurance for peace of mind?

We also partake of  FMCA Rallies, Conventions and Shows. We  use the tire discount. We read the magazine. We go on caravans.  We have long time friends on this RVForum who have travel trailers and 5th wheels. As Charlie Adcock  past president said , it is all about having fun.  As RVers do we  care what our friends drive? The FMCA organization  is aging, fewer new members are joining.  If younger members join, our  benefits can remain as actuaries base rates on age. I am  voting IN FAVOR of the move to allow towables in order to  make  FMCA more viable with the possibility of new members. I see no down side to the move.

Betty, you make some very solid points, I am not sure if I am swayed to change my vote, but you have given me food for thought.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: UTTransplant on August 26, 2017, 04:47:14 PM
I am a long time ( 20 year plus)  RVForum member and a long time FMCA member.  I  am a volunteer in both organizations.  I was an officer in our  4 Wheeler Chapter  and did several seminars on FMCA member benefits.  What has been said about declining  membership in the National Organization was true until this past year where there was a slight gain in membership.  One of the most important issues for me in FMCA is the medical evacuation program.  Should  my husband have a medical emergency that  renders him unable to drive our motorhome, FMCAssist will arrange someone to transport our rig home. They will also fly in a family member to drive our rig home, they would transport him to  another medical facility providing all  procedures are followed.  Just last Monday I called 911 and had husband transported to Emergency Hospital in Salida,  Colorado.  It was  25 miles from our campground. You can bet I was grateful to have my $60 FMCA membership in hand as all kinds of possible scenarios could have followed.  Thankfully all is well now but what price insurance for peace of mind?

We also partake of  FMCA Rallies, Conventions and Shows. We  use the tire discount. We read the magazine. We go on caravans.  We have long time friends on this RVForum who have travel trailers and 5th wheels. As Charlie Adcock  past president said , it is all about having fun.  As RVers do we  care what our friends drive? The FMCA organization  is aging, fewer new members are joining.  If younger members join, our  benefits can remain as actuaries base rates on age. I am  voting IN FAVOR of the move to allow towables in order to  make  FMCA more viable with the possibility of new members. I see no down side to the move.
Betty gives the reasons I hope FMCA allows towables. I have a travel trailer, and the benefits she identifies are ones I value too. FMCA would certainly gain another member if the change passes.

On an unrelated note, why do some people think it is important to be part of an exclusive club? I just don't get it. Motorhomes range in price from $1.5M or more to the $5,000 range. It doesn't seem like the exclusivity is based on cost or age or quality. I certainly do see the argument about rally topics potentially being diluted. Is that what folks mean? Not trying to be snarky at all; I am just curious.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Isaac-1 on August 26, 2017, 06:09:35 PM
As I see it the commonality of concerns of motorhome owners don't have much to do with the purchase cost / current value of the motorhome. 

Here is a list of just a few of the issues that motorhome owners face that are generally different for towable owners:

1, motorhome specific vehicle insurance

2, Motorhome specific drivers licenses are becoming common in more and more states, at least for larger class A's

3, Motorhome drivetrain servicing, towables can generally take their tow vehicle to the same auto mechanics that they use for their personal cars, not so for most motorhome owners

4, Motorhomes are much more likely to have self contained AC electrical systems which include generators, few if any towables are standardly equipped with generators, where almost all motorhomes are.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: ArdraF on August 26, 2017, 06:34:09 PM
Brad, just in case you're not aware of it, FMCA has many rally activities for kids that range from tots to teens.  The kids seem to have a blast while their parents are off attending seminars on subjects of interest to them.

ArdraF
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Mile High on August 26, 2017, 08:14:53 PM

On an unrelated note, why do some people think it is important to be part of an exclusive club? 
I personally just do, don't really need to explain it to you.   There are those that think everything needs to be homogenized and attack the very basis of exclusivity and that I don't understand.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Mile High on August 26, 2017, 08:22:18 PM
Brad, just in case you're not aware of it, FMCA has many rally activities for kids that range from tots to teens.  The kids seem to have a blast while their parents are off attending seminars on subjects of interest to them.

ArdraF

Was that for me?  If so thanks ArdraF, I was not aware of that.  I have not been to a rally yet, as we just joined last year when we got the MH.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: taoshum on August 26, 2017, 10:02:23 PM
FMCA leaders are focused on the fact that there are a lot more towable owners than motorhome owners. They seem to ignore that the absolute number of motorhome owners is still increasing while their membership continues to decline. The organization has lost over 40,000 members in the last 10 years, something like a 35% decline even though there are more motorhomes than ever on the road. To me that says that the organization has failed to remain relevant to the motorhome community. The RV industry ships over 2000 new Class A motorhomes every month, yet very few of those buyers become FMCA members. That's what FMCA needs to fix somehow.

There was an op-ed piece in the magazine from the president where he described the issue in detail.  I thought, at the time, that the fundamental strength of the FMCA was not in the national organization but in the hundreds of chapters, for instance the 4Wheeelers. Of course the national organization is the logical place to coordinate the various benefit programs although some tailoring might be helpful to the various chapters.  I don't know what percentage of the FMCA members participate in the national rallies compared to the far more numerous chapter events/meetings.  My point being that there's likely data to guide the planning for the future... people everywhere vote with their presence or not.  For example, if 10% of the members attend the national rallies and 80% of the members attend chapter meetings then cancel the nationals and put much, much more chapter information in the magazine... maybe even organize the magazine around chapters, especially the larger ones.  Then there's the question of full time compared to part time.  Full time MH/RV folks have a much different agenda than part timers, yet, the organization hardly ever even mentions it.  Of course, the national rallies are a prime venue for RV sales and marketing... but how many people in FMCA participate in this activity?  The seminars on operations/maintenance of RVs are really important but much of the information/material could be put on video and offered on-line.  As for 4-corner weight service, chapters could provide this?

It seems to me that if FMCA folds, the real loss would be the chapters which would not have national support or the FMCA benefits.  BTW, the chapter option offers a way to include the towables by region or interest (including younger age groups) or as part of the existing chapter complex.  Before you make any decisions about the FMCA it might make sense to look over the chapter list and note that 80% of the recent boom in RV purchases are sold to millennials.

Personally, the FMCA HQ might want to visit with Gary RV_Wizard cuz he tells it like it is, see above.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Bill N on August 27, 2017, 07:36:12 AM
I can see from some of these responses that I would not be welcomed at all so with that, I would never join. I didn't know that some peoples crap doesn't stink and that they put their pants on differently than me.
X2
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: BernieD on August 27, 2017, 07:40:07 AM
FMCA has always focused on Chapters, it is really the heart and soul of the organization. They range all over the place and if a group of 20 members want to start a chapter, National even provides a coffee pot and other goodies. Chapters also fall under the National umbrella for liability insurance and taxes. We belonged to chapters for chassis owners, engine owners, religion, travel/rallies and one (3Ts) that only met after each national convention to relax, recharge, socialize and cleanup after the rally. I'm sure if, and when, membership is open to TTs many chapters will be formed to suit the needs and desires of TT owners in addition to the other chapters. There is no limit as to how many chapters to which you can belong, we had over a couple hundred to chose from. The monthly magazine listed all the chapter rallies of which it was aware for the next 6+ months, providing dates, locations and contacts. If you don't belong to a chapter it is your fault and your loss, it's a great way to meet new friends, travel and learn.

For those concerned about TTs taking over the convention seminars, seminars are scheduled based on the interests of attendees and availability of presenters. If enough TT owners attend the conventions, subjects geared to them will appear on the schedule without diluting those that are MH centric. There will always be the seminars on full-timing, tours, campgrounds, insurance, arts and crafts and other subjects common to all RVers.

By the way, the largest National convention we ever attended had about 7,000 coaches in attendance, less than 6% of the total membership. It was a great rally but I doubt if one that size could ever happen again due to logistic and location issues, even if current membership and attendance swells.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Bill N on August 27, 2017, 07:55:02 AM
An interesting topic with many different points of view expressed.  I am not an FMCA member nor have I ever been solicited for membership as opposed to other RV organizations which tend to keep my mailbox full asking for membership and explaining the benefits of same. 

Gary RV Wizard has given an excellent response and hit the nail on the head - actually many nails on the head.  Membership organizations are, in general, on decline in this country.  My one example is the Air Force Association whose membership has been declining for many years and they have made many efforts to try and stem the tide. So far I don't think they are having much success.  Magazines are another area where subscriptions are on the decline. From what I can see (in the doctors office) they are nothing more than a lot of advertisements now with very little in the form of substance in their articles.

I continue to receive Motorhome magazine despite the fact that my subscription ended over a year ago.  The last issue convinced me as to why I would not subscribe any longer.  A huge percentage of the articles pertained to systems or features found only in the newer and more expensive coaches.  In other words they just don't speak my language.   Oh sure there are some articles of interest but not enough to want a subscription.

From what little I know of FMCA in this thread and on other boards I think they are just trying to survive by inviting towables to subscribe.  In the end I see a dwindling membership and a NO vote on their pending poll.  But I would hate to see any quality RV organization go by the boards and I wish the all the best.

Bill
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: SeilerBird on August 27, 2017, 08:03:08 AM
Quote
Magazines are another area where subscriptions are on the decline. From what I can see (in the doctors office) they are nothing more than a lot of advertisements now with very little in the form of substance in their articles.
I think you have just described every magazine ever produced except Mad Magazine. ;D
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Larry N. on August 27, 2017, 09:11:41 AM
I think you have just described every magazine ever produced except Mad Magazine. ;D

He's right about the trend. Even with ads I used to subscribe to a lot of magazines in different fields, and in the
60s through the early '90s they pretty much all had plenty of articles that appealed to me, but as the magazines changed (many changing their focus, others just not up to the quality they'd once had, a couple even putting mild swear words in the text) I dropped subscriptions, so that I now only get 3 magazines, 2 because of organizations I belong to.

To name a few that used to be great: Popular Science, Petersen's Photographic, Stereo Review. I still get Flying magazine; though it's not quite up to what it used to be, it's still useful.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 27, 2017, 10:02:04 AM
Quote
More likely this is due to the limits on political activity imposed by FMCA's tax exempt, non-profit status.  This includes limits on how much they can spend on lobbying.

I used to work for a 501c3 organization in a similar situation (the non-profit provided the operating funds for a radio station) and we had to be very careful how we interfaced with the political world.  Neutrality is the goal, advocate too heavily for one side or the other and you place the tax exempt status of the organization in jeopardy.

True, but not of any real significance here. The restrictions apply to lobbying for the election of political parties and candidates, not lobbying for  issues relevant to the organization's charter. Not-for-profit organizations for veterans, conservation, ecology, etc. all lobby extensively for their areas of interest. Heck, the NRA is a non-profit and they are one of the largest lobbies in Washington and many state capitals as well. Ditto for the AMA (medical).

There is a legal distinction between educating the public (and politicians) on a subject or advocating certain policies vs lobbying for the election of one candidate vs another. So yes, one must keep an eye on that distinction and not stray over the line, but it's not a reason to avoid getting involved. It is entirely legal and appropriate for an organization like FMCA to promote policies that favor park improvements and expansion, alter regulations that effect RVs, or anything else that benefits the RVing public.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: ArdraF on August 27, 2017, 04:39:41 PM
Quote
Was that for me?  If so thanks ArdraF, I was not aware of that.  I have not been to a rally yet, as we just joined last year when we got the MH.

Ha!  Darned if I know - can't find the comment that made me think of writing it.  Maybe it was for the "other" Brad who has children.  Anyway, I hope you enjoy going to a rally.  You're bound to learn a lot about motorhoming.

ArdraF
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: John From Detroit on August 27, 2017, 05:06:06 PM
Regarding Lobbying,, I belong to two or more non-profits that lobby heavily for issues related to the cause... One many of you will know well AARP.  The other some ARRL.

Both lobby for the cause.. As does Social Security Trust.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: taoshum on August 27, 2017, 05:20:35 PM
FMCA has always focused on Chapters, it is really the heart and soul of the organization.



By the way, the largest National convention we ever attended had about 7,000 coaches in attendance, less than 6% of the total membership. It was a great rally but I doubt if one that size could ever happen again due to logistic and location issues, even if current membership and attendance swells.

If I counted correctly, there are maybe 3 pages out of 120 devoted to "chapters"...  "Heart and Soul" would indicate far greater coverage might be helpful????
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: phil-t on August 27, 2017, 05:58:18 PM
I think you have just described every magazine ever produced except Mad Magazine. ;D
Tough selling ad space in magazines and news papers today.  Not the way of the young world!  Everything is on-line and in digital format in some way, for them.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: ArdraF on August 27, 2017, 06:23:32 PM
Quote
Tough selling ad space in magazines and news papers today.

Yes, it is.  Forbes is forging a whole new digital platform that integrates both paper and digital.  As a retired technical librarian, I'll be interested in seeing how it all works out.  I'm a dinosaur and prefer my paper magazines, paper maps, etc.!  No Facebook, no Twitter.  Nothing like that interests me so publishers, who still have a lot of people like me to whom they must appeal, also must meet the needs of the techies who are thrilled by all the new digital media.  It's not easy!

ArdraF
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: rls7201 on August 27, 2017, 07:36:28 PM
I think you have just described every magazine ever produced except Mad Magazine. ;D

Ah ha...........I keep looking at your avatar scratching my head but now I get it! AEN
Big ol Grin
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: CWSWine on August 27, 2017, 10:45:29 PM
To me there's is not benefits to FMCA.  I have family members that can travel and recover my motor home if I can't so assist is not benefit to me.

My tires have a Oct 2016 date so I have 6 years on them so I can join don't need the tire benefit for another 6 years.  I can join for year and take advantage of the discount

Rallies - Nothing I hate more than thousand coaches park in field on questionable power in space that should only be a couple hundred and praying that don't rain and take two days to get the stuck coaches out of the mud. 

Local groups.  Now that laugh.  Our local group reserves 10 spaces and hope three show up.  That last one one and only one I attend offered me the president since all of them has held the office more than once.

I agree that FMCA is gong to become a Good Sams Light or you can say it's a Good Sam without the benefits. 

Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on August 28, 2017, 07:45:09 AM
Some local FMCA chapters are very active and attract sizable following. Others have more-or-less gone dormant after an initial period of activity. It's really just a matter of the local membership - you only get out of it what you and your fellow members put in. As with any club, there are always many more takers than givers. A few work hard to provide club benefits for the many [and are usually rewarded with gripes and slander].
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Drifterrider on August 28, 2017, 12:00:08 PM
and in other news.... Looks like the Boy Scouts of America will admit Girls soon.

Same news, different channel

When I was a Boy Scout I would have supported this: as would have all of the boys in my Troup. :)
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Rene T on August 28, 2017, 02:18:09 PM
When I was a Boy Scout I would have supported this: as would have all of the boys in my Troup. :)

It's called BOY Scouts (all boys) for a reason and GIRL Scouts (all girls) for a reason.
Those jamborees could get pretty interesting, don't ya think?   ::) :-X
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Lou Schneider on August 28, 2017, 11:17:20 PM
So, what do you get when you cross a motorhome with a towable?   8)
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: kdbgoat on August 29, 2017, 06:17:15 AM
This:

http://cheezburger.com/4193731328/something-seems-backwards

Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: John Beard on September 27, 2017, 06:07:11 PM
Well now, I've changed positions. After a lot of soul searching, I could not think of a single reason why trailers/5th Wheels shouldn't be a part of the group. My vote is being cast in favor of the measure passing.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Mile High on September 27, 2017, 08:41:39 PM
I've decided not to vote - with only a year in the FMCA and not ever have been to a rally I don't want to cast a vote against others with a higher passion and history.  If it goes to trailers I'll drop membership and move on.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Isaac-1 on September 27, 2017, 11:25:49 PM
You should vote, this is being sold as must pass to gain membership, if you are going to drop out if it passes that does not help anything.
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: kdbgoat on September 28, 2017, 06:00:38 AM
I don't want to cast a vote against others with a higher passion and history.

And that makes your opinion less valuable than anyone else's? Why give up your right/privilege to vote?
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Bill N on September 28, 2017, 06:27:20 AM
FMCA leaders are focused on the fact that there are a lot more towable owners than motorhome owners. They seem to ignore that the absolute number of motorhome owners is still increasing while their membership continues to decline. The organization has lost over 40,000 members in the last 10 years, something like a 35% decline even though there are more motorhomes than ever on the road. To me that says that the organization has failed to remain relevant to the motorhome community. The RV industry ships over 2000 new Class A motorhomes every month, yet very few of those buyers become FMCA members. That's what FMCA needs to fix somehow.

Sorry for the late reply Gary but you hit the nail on the head. I had never even heard of FMCA until about a year after I bought my used motorhome in 2014.  I have never been approached by them via any medium to become a member.  I belong to several other state and national RV organizations which seem to sell my name frequently to others  who want to solicit my business.  Funny that FMCA has never approached me and I assume that they are not approaching a lot of new motorhome owners (either new or used coaches).  It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Bill
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: ArdraF on September 28, 2017, 05:33:26 PM
We got our one-year "trial" FMCA membership when we bought our first NEW Monaco.  Doubt it's included with used units.  There are several Monaco chapters within FMCA, so perhaps there's one for your RV too.

By the way, ALL members should vote.  We will although not decided which way.

ArdraF
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: Arch Hoagland on September 28, 2017, 06:26:54 PM
Better hope the Russians don't get wind of this vote or they'll hack into the system and destroy everything!! 
Title: Re: FMCA ballot to abandon motorhome only requirement
Post by: garyb1st on September 28, 2017, 09:31:03 PM
FMCA leaders are focused on the fact that there are a lot more towable owners than motorhome owners. They seem to ignore that the absolute number of motorhome owners is still increasing while their membership continues to decline. The organization has lost over 40,000 members in the last 10 years, something like a 35% decline even though there are more motorhomes than ever on the road. To me that says that the organization has failed to remain relevant to the motorhome community. The RV industry ships over 2000 new Class A motorhomes every month, yet very few of those buyers become FMCA members. That's what FMCA needs to fix somehow.

After attending the National Rally in Chandler this past March, it's hard to believe membership is falling.  We've only been to two Rallys.  The Western Conference two years ago and the National.  The Western Conference was fun.  The National was not.  The turnout, apparently much larger than anticipated, led to major parking issues and for many, long walks to classrooms that were full.   As a result of our experience, I have no interest in attending another National Rally.  While it's not likely we'll drop our membership, if the fee increased significantly, I'd have to rethink that decision.  Not because of the money.  But really, there's not much value that I see.  The tire deal never really appealed to me.  I purchased a set of Sumitomo's for less than $1,700 installed.  They ride as well as the Michelins that were on our motorhome.  And while they were 7 years old, the Michelins only had 5 or 6,000 miles on them.  Never checked the price of the Michelins but I'd be surprised if they weren't at least another $1,000 more.  I get both the hard copy and the electronic edition of the monthly magazine.  I've asked FMCA to stop sending the hard copy.  It still comes.  I would think a hard copy would be sent only if and when a member requests one.  Other than introducing new RV's, the vast majority of the magazine is a rehash of prior months articles.  Seriously a gross waste of money.  While the Med evacuation program makes sense for seniors, I doubt it has the much appeal to young members.   

Gary RV Wizard is correct.  FMCA needs to fix its dwindling membership.  However, I doubt FMCA has a good handle on why membership is declining or why new owners are not signing up.  That would be a good starting place.  To simply invite non-motorized RVer into the club, increases membership but does nothing to address the reason membership declined in the first place.   FMCA needs to ask owners who have dropped their membership to let them know why.  They also need to reach out to new owners.  Do new owners even know about the FMCA?  And while there may be 2,000 new motorhome sales every month, how many are sold to coach owners who are upgrading.  And not to offend anyone, but how many younger owners who are purchasing for the first time want to connect with a group of typical FMCA members who generally are retired seniors. 

I don't know enough about the history of the FMCA but suspect it grew significantly as the Baby Boomers were cashing in their high valued homes and moving to areas where they could purchase a comparable home and have a significant chunk of money remaining which allowed them to pay cash or at least a large down payment toward a pretty nice motorhome.  That well is drying up.  The next generation is not as flush.