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RVing message boards => Motorhomes => Topic started by: KandT on September 30, 2017, 08:19:23 PM

Title: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: KandT on September 30, 2017, 08:19:23 PM
Am I crazy (Yes) but that is beside the point.  Seems to me RV's are tough to gauge but to my surprise I see a lot of private parties holding their prices quite high.  Maybe they are upside down.  In a weird twist sometimes a better "pre hackle" deal seems to be at the dealer.  Maybe they want to draw me in and then switch but heavens to betsy the private parties seem to hold their price to NADA Average which I know (save the comments) isn't gospel but gives us some idea of their price.  I always thought of retail meaning that you bought it from a dealer and you should expect a discount at a private party.

Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: Charlie 5320 on September 30, 2017, 08:40:28 PM
Why would a coach be worth more at a dealer? They sure don't  warranty any older coachs. From what I've seen if you find a coach below high retail at a dealer they need a lot of work. I had my coach for sale for a bit this summer and had a couple couples look at it. I was just a bit above low retail with my price. Had one guy that was real interested, and he told me my coach was the best one he had seen for the price. His wife just had knee surgery and thought it had too many steps to enter and exit. The other wanted to make an offer, I told him the price was firm, he said if you change your mind call me. I just took it off the market. Every coach that I've sold brought right at low retail, and they were 20 years old. 
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: SargeW on September 30, 2017, 09:24:32 PM
I see a lot of rigs priced based on what the owner owes. Problem is many owners purchased with the minimum down, and when they decide to sell they owe way more than the current market value. I can sympathize, but the first rule of RV ownership is that they are lousy investments. Buy it for the fun of the RV experience and lifestyle, but not for the expectation of getting your money out of it.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: NY_Dutch on September 30, 2017, 09:38:57 PM
Dealers are more likely to be in tune with the market conditions in their area and their trade-in allowances and selling prices will reflect that. Private owners tend not to be so realistic in their pricing, but are also often more flexible in discounting the longer the unit sits unsold.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: SeilerBird on October 01, 2017, 02:48:56 AM
You are comparing apples to oranges. The price you see listed at the dealer is not the price you will actually pay. Once you have agreed to pay the dealers listed price they start adding in the extras that a private party does not add in. Dealers fees, document fees, extended warranty, exterior shine coat, etc. And then they nick you on a trade in.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: JackL on October 01, 2017, 05:13:59 AM
I noticed it on travel trailers.

 I was looking on craigslist for a particular late model one and when I saw the prices on two three and four year old models, it was obvious to me, that I could get a brand new one cheaper than private parties were asking for their used ones.
 I just hope newbies and first time buyers don't settle for a used one when they can possibly do better at a dealer on a new one.

Jack L
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: KandT on October 01, 2017, 05:29:08 AM
You are comparing apples to oranges. The price you see listed at the dealer is not the price you will actually pay. Once you have agreed to pay the dealers listed price they start adding in the extras that a private party does not add in. Dealers fees, document fees, extended warranty, exterior shine coat, etc. And then they nick you on a trade in.

Good point Seiller.  I always say "This offer means I am going to cut you a check for $x amount.  You can call it anything you want after that but my check is going to be for $x". That seems to have cut us to the chase on car purchases.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: KandT on October 01, 2017, 05:33:43 AM
I see a lot of rigs priced based on what the owner owes. Problem is many owners purchased with the minimum down, and when they decide to sell they owe way more than the current market value. I can sympathize, but the first rule of RV ownership is that they are lousy investments. Buy it for the fun of the RV experience and lifestyle, but not for the expectation of getting your money out of it.

I think you are right.  People get upside down and quite frankly can't afford to run them so they want to sell for the price they owe.  My problem with that is they got the best years out of the RV and then want a buyer to pick up the payments for their now USED RV.

I say this with a huge love of RV's. - They are one of the worst financial decisions a person can make.  Now the fun my kids and I have make it make sense but the money we spend???  Stupid!! 
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: SargeW on October 01, 2017, 07:27:32 AM
I say this with a huge love of RV's. - They are one of the worst financial decisions a person can make. 

Yep, I am an RV addict! The bug bit me 40 years ago when I stumbled upon my first 8' truck camper. Fast forward to today and I have owned more new RV's than I care to admit. But I have loved every minute of it (mostly) and the DW and I are enjoying the heck out of retirement. Hey, you can't take it with you, right?
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on October 01, 2017, 11:03:03 AM
Two reasons:
1. The seller owes more than its worth
2. They have no idea of the actual market value

Many owners are staggered when they [finally] realize that the rig they paid so much for has depreciated badly. And that 20 year loan with very affordable payments was maybe not such a good idea afterall.

And maybe a third reason: Buyers on the private market often like to bargain, or at least are inclined to make a lower offer no matter what the asking price. Sellers may intentionally leave room in their asking price for that. It's the Turkish Bazaar syndrome - the seller asks for more and the buyer offers less and they eventually meet somewhere in the middle. Of course, dealers do much the same, asking for the price they would like to get, not necessarily the lowest they can accept.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: Mile High on October 01, 2017, 01:02:05 PM
I've sold several on my own, and I found NADA will quickly artificially inflate your price beyond market.  In addition to what is owed to the bank, I wonder if some rely too much on NADA rather than check the market out there.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: KandT on October 01, 2017, 01:30:34 PM
Yes - I bought and sold mine below NADA low retail.  It did not take long to sell and I cut right to the chase with the price.  Of course if you paid too much it becomes a lot to swallow that the market will only pay you less than NADA low retail.  My strategy was to go with a cashiers check when I bought and when I sold I starting at an attractive price.  When they wanted to bargain I was very polite and told them I respected that they asked because I always ask but as I am sure they knew it was already priced aggressively.  They agreed and we had a cashiers check in hand a few days later.  Oh and total loss - $1000.  Now I did put $805 worth of tires on it and lots of little items but we used it two full seasons and put 8000 miles on it.  Oh and I learned a ton.  Of course I put lots of gas in it and three oil changes.  But all in all I thought that was pretty dang good!  Tons and tons of fun!!!
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: KandT on October 05, 2017, 06:59:58 AM
Why would a coach be worth more at a dealer?

It’s not that they are worth more - it’s that when you buy from a private party you are  not adding the expense of the dealer so both parties should share some in the benefit.  The seller should get more than if he sold it to a dealer (not the phony “trade” numbers) and the buyer should pay less.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: mcangelo4 on October 09, 2017, 09:39:14 PM
Im going thriugh this big time!!! Jayco redhawk $60k brand new with all the fees.

Used: 1-3 years lowest i have seen is 65k...(what the heck)

They say these units depreciate a ton day 1.

I want to buy gently used but can't find a used seller that exists in my area.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: UTTransplant on October 10, 2017, 01:09:59 PM
I think some sellers believe the dealer is screwing them when they give a big depreciation price. They are too bottoms up on their loan to take a real price, so they think they will do better selling on their own. However the units really do depreciate from day one. A unit is only worth what a willing buyer will pay for it.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: garyb1st on October 10, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Many people do not know how to apply the NADA options.  For example, charging extra for slides on a motorhome that comes with slides.  I've seen them include everything except the kitchen sink when calculating values.  Dealers also play this game.  When I asked one dealer why, he told me it allows the bank to finance a greater portion of the selling price.   
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: Isaac-1 on October 10, 2017, 03:44:07 PM
My problem with NADA, at least the free online variety is that it is nearly useless on older coaches.   Lets take the one I own and its cousins as an example, with no options added, MSRP as reported by NADA and Average Retail NADA sales price

2002 Safari Trek 2830 on a P32 chassis  List Price $101,668 current NADA $15,150

Lets go back same model 5 years older which would have the 7.4L vs 8.1L and lower levels of interior amenities (no solid counter tops, no ducted air conditioner, ...)

1997 Safari Trek 2830 on P32 Chassis List Price $76,650 current NADA $15,150

Ok lets try an entry level coach on the same chassis

First a Fleetwood Flair

1997 Fleetwood Flair M29V on P32 List Price $59,546 current NADA $15,150

How about a Tiffin
1996 Tiffin Allegro M-28 on P32 List Price $52,813 current NADA $15,150

Does anyone see a trend here, if it is on a P32 from at least 1996 - 2002 NADA says it is worth $15,150 regardless of being a bare bones entry level or luxury coach with inverter, levelling jacks, solid wood cabinets, ...
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: KandT on October 10, 2017, 04:28:14 PM
To be fair coaches, tractors, boats etc. drop to a certain point and then level off.  A lot of the extras break or become a liability anyways and they can’t account for every hubcap upgrade etc.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: Isaac-1 on October 10, 2017, 06:29:30 PM
True, but in my opinion coaches built with higher quality materials tend to age better, in the above example we include coaches on the low end with vinyl graphics, EPDM rubber roofs, plastic shower pans, and particle board cabinets being valued at the same level as one with full body paint, an Aluminum roof, fiberglass shower, real wood cabinets, and Corian counter tops.  This leaves out those items that may increase maintenance like dual pane windows, leveling jacks, inverters, convection ovens, ... which the entry level models don't have.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: KandT on October 10, 2017, 07:48:20 PM
Yep the nada is only a rough guess - think of two ten year old coaches.  One has been stored in Maryland garage.  The other was stored outside in North Dakota.  There is no “how stores” section.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: utahclaimjumper on October 15, 2017, 10:59:20 AM
 It doesent matter whats being sold or by whom,, the seller can price it where ever he wishes and the buyer can walk away if he wishes.. No reason to get upset at the price when you have this option.>>>Dan  ( When the price is posted, it does not mean thats what it's worth,, it just means thats what the seller wants for it)
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: Bill N on October 15, 2017, 11:13:14 AM
I see a lot of rigs priced based on what the owner owes. Problem is many owners purchased with the minimum down, and when they decide to sell they owe way more than the current market value. I can sympathize, but the first rule of RV ownership is that they are lousy investments. Buy it for the fun of the RV experience and lifestyle, but not for the expectation of getting your money out of it.

X2
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: Larry N. on October 15, 2017, 11:20:50 AM
Quote
They sure don't  warranty any older coachs.

When I bought my Beaver, the dealer included a 30 day warranty on everything working. They had to fix a few things before that 30 days was up.

 
Quote
I always thought of retail meaning that you bought it from a dealer and you should expect a discount at a private party.

I thought retail meant that it was not wholesale (what the dealer will allow for your trade-in, or will pay to purchase a unit).
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: Drifterrider on October 15, 2017, 12:08:41 PM
Everyone believes their stuff is gold plated:  I certainly do.  All my "collectibles" are the only one I've seen (because I'm not looking) and I want every penny I can get.

The buyer wants it for free.  The seller wants a fortune.  That is capitalism.  I'm not your friend and you aren't going to pay my bills.

Be informed and make the deal you can live with whether from a dealer or private.  The only person  you have to make happy is YOU (unless you are the husband, then you have to make Her happy).

If you want some eye opening experiences, start looking at used late model trucks and compare to new.

PS.  New dealers take trades in order to sell new.  They want the used off their lot so then can sell new.  They are in business and have to have cash flow.  Private parties can leave it parked and wait.

Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on October 15, 2017, 05:23:44 PM
That pretty well sums it up, Drifterrider!
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: SargeW on October 16, 2017, 07:25:59 AM
If you want some eye opening experiences, start looking at used late model trucks and compare to new.

PS.  New dealers take trades in order to sell new.  They want the used off their lot so then can sell new.  They are in business and have to have cash flow.  Private parties can leave it parked and wait.

Actually dealers often make more on trades they took in than the new models on their lot. The new model has a firm price that they have to pay the manufacturer. Along with monthly interest, unless they bought it outright from them.

The trade is often taken in on a low ball price allowing them a lot of leeway to adjust the price.

When I sold my nearly 10 year old Dodge Ram diesel 2500 about 6 months ago, I nearly got what I paid for it new. Granted it was low miles and pristine condition, but it never even made the "For Sale" sites. A neighbor's friend bought it sight unseen. Then he came over and looked at it, he never even drove it and handed me a check.  I guess I sold it cheap, but I got what I thought was a fair price. He was elated. The price of new trucks is through the roof, and Ford just came out with one that is over $100K. For a pickup truck!  So yeah, the vehicle is worth what the market will bear. 
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: TonyDtorch on October 16, 2017, 08:55:44 AM
The price of new trucks is through the roof, and Ford just came out with one that is over $100K. For a pickup truck!  So yeah, the vehicle is worth what the market will bear.

$80k to $100k might be the normal price range for a new American made truck.

  I watched a road test on TV about the new 2018 Nissan Armada, they said the price as tested was  $ 65,000.00... for essentially a Datsun  ???
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: Sun2Retire on October 16, 2017, 11:00:37 AM
The price of new trucks is through the roof


Which as you noted has rippled through the used market. When I was recently in the market for a solid, older 1/2 ton, 4WD, I found they couldn’t be had for less than Kelly trade-in plus at least $3K, and most of these trucks had over 200K miles on them (one had well over $300K!). And many were pretty rough.
Title: Re: Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers
Post by: SargeW on October 16, 2017, 06:04:46 PM
Yeah, my Ram had 28,000 miles on it! Just drove it when we were not on the road in the RV, then put it in the garage and closed it up. I changed the oil on it once, and it looked like I could have put it back in the bottle.......