The RV Forum Community

RVing message boards => Newcomers' Corner => Topic started by: ppet on October 19, 2017, 11:15:07 PM

Title: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: ppet on October 19, 2017, 11:15:07 PM
I am assuming that when buying a used coach from a dealer they take care of all the paperwork for the sale, registration, transfer of title, etc.

However, when buying from a private party, what is the process?  Where do you go to take care of all the paperwork that would otherwise be taken care of by the dealer? 

Also, any advice or recommendations when buying from a private party would be appreciated.

Thanks to all who administer this site.  You are a godsend to this raw RV wannabe newbie!!!
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: SeilerBird on October 19, 2017, 11:18:55 PM
If you are buying the RV in the state you will be registering it in then meet the person at your bank and get a cashiers check with the seller watching you. Then have the seller sign the paperwork. Then go to the DMV and get it registered. If buying out of state go to the local DMV and get a temporary plate so you can drive it home.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on October 20, 2017, 08:46:17 AM
You get an official state vehicle title document from the seller. Exactly what that looks like and the details of how the seller signs over the title to the buyer will depend on the state's DMV procedures & laws.  In some you just get the old title with a signature (which may require a notary) and you then apply for a new one in your name, while in others the state may handle the title transfer directly.  After that, you deal with  your state DMV to get registration (tags). Any state fees and sales/use taxes are usually collected as part of the process.

The main thing for the buyer is to be sure he receives an actual, official vehicle title as part of the sale. Without that, you don't own anything!
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Charlie 5320 on October 20, 2017, 10:10:39 PM
I would get a bill of sale with PO name address, your name and address, purchase price and date of sale. Signed by the PO yourself, and a witness or two. When I took my paper work to the DMV, they asked how much I paid, and had to pay sales tax on that amount. I was kind of shocked because I've bought used vehicles from private partys before and just had to pay a small amount in taxes. NOT this time. About 6 weeks later I get a letter in the mail from the state of ILLINOIS stating I didn't pay enough sales tax because they didn't feel I disclosed the correct amount I paid for the vehicle, and stated according to their figures I owed x amount more. Their figures were full retail, I paid $10,000 less. It's a good thing the PO had this bill of sale made up and required me and my buddy to sign his copy and my copy before I left the premises.  I thought that was way over kill at the time, but when the state pulled that on me I'm glad I had that bill of sale.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: VallAndMo on October 21, 2017, 03:48:18 AM
Hi Charlie,

Thanks for sharing the story about IL trying to overtax you, and glad to hear they failed... :-D I've been hearing a lot of stories about bankrupt states trying to do that one way or the other, and all of them are terrifying.

Just a few questions:

1) what exactly do you mean by "PO" (sorry if that's a stupid question, I think you mean "Private Owner" ie the seller, but want to make sure).

2) so you just sent IL a copy of the bill of sales, and they stopped harassing you? Or did you have to do anything else?

Thanks in advance for the clarifications,
--
   Vall.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Larry N. on October 21, 2017, 06:30:37 AM
Quote
1) what exactly do you mean by "PO" (sorry if that's a stupid question, I think you mean "Private Owner" ie the seller, but want to make sure).

In this context, it likely means Previous Owner.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on October 21, 2017, 08:53:26 AM
Be aware that some states charge personal property tax or tag fees based on fair market value or estimated depreciation, regardless of what you actually paid.  Plus they are naturally skeptical of people who come in with low-ball prices from private sales, i.e. fictitious bill-of-sale prices.  They may challenge what you claim to have paid.

Also: The DMV & state tax people are mostly accustomed to car market pricing where the value of a given year & model is well-established in a fairly narrow range. RV pricing varies a lot more than cars, but the state DMV/tax folks still try to apply average NADA book values.   A well-documented sale is a big help if you have to argue with them about value.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Bill N on October 21, 2017, 11:04:18 AM
What Gary says is pretty much true across the board.  I will not say I cheated (I did) but when I bought my coach from a PO I knew that my county was one of the highest in the state for sales tax (9 percent) and that percent applied to all vehicle sales as well.  I about choked when I figured what it would cost me in sales tax alone so I made a deal with the PO like this.  I would either give him a reduced price from his asking price in order to make up for the sales tax or I would give him his asking price but would write up a bill of sale for about half of the asking price and then give him an additional cashiers check for the remainder.  This would save me enough on the sales tax to make the purchase possible. We  did that and all went through fine.  I knew that the personal property tax in my country is also a killer so I have had to swallow that each year.  Of course the personal property tax is due on January 1st of each year - Merry Christmas.  Personal property tax to me, regardless of the rate, is highway robbery.  I remember back in the 60s when South Dakota had it on farm machinery and the farmers got to hiding their machinery in the tree rows and any other place not visible from the road.  The assessor could not find it all.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Charlie 5320 on October 21, 2017, 03:02:18 PM
Hi Charlie,

Thanks for sharing the story about IL trying to overtax you, and glad to hear they failed... :-D I've been hearing a lot of stories about bankrupt states trying to do that one way or the other, and all of them are terrifying.

Just a few questions:

1) what exactly do you mean by "PO" (sorry if that's a stupid question, I think you mean "Private Owner" ie the seller, but want to make sure).

2) so you just sent IL a copy of the bill of sales, and they stopped harassing you? Or did you have to do anything else?

Thanks in advance for the clarifications,
--
   Vall.
PO=Previous Owner. We don't have personal property tax here. I was talking about sales tax, that the state charges every time something is sold even if it is sold 10 times. I had to take a copy of the RUT tax form, showing what I already paid and the original bill of sale to the tax collecting facility, lucky I live in the town where it is at. They wouldn't even consider looking at a copy of the cashiers check that I paid for it with, because she said there could be more than one check. If I didn't have that bill of sale with all the information the PO requested, I'd have had to pay what ever the state deemed the coach was worth. Illinois goes by nada retail price. Classic cars is another one that the state rips you off. I have a 59,000 mile 77 Trans Am  that I want to transfer to my son but don't want to have to pay sales tax on what the state determines what it's worth. I'm going to see my lawyer to see what may be done.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: muskoka guy on October 22, 2017, 04:27:42 AM
Not sure how it works in the USA, but here in Ontario we can search the title at the dmv. You want to make sure there are no liens against the mh before handing over any cash. If there is a lien against it, it must be paid off to the lien holder, before they release the title. Otherwise, if the seller doesnt pay off the lien, the bank or lien holder  can come and retrieve THEIR asset and leave you having to sue the seller to get your money back. Luckily as stated, we can just go to our motor vehicle office and get a sellers kit, which states any liens registered against the vehicle.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: ppet on October 22, 2017, 06:47:37 PM
Not sure how it works in the USA, but here in Ontario we can search the title at the dmv. You want to make sure there are no liens against the mh before handing over any cash. If there is a lien against it, it must be paid off to the lien holder, before they release the title. Otherwise, if the seller doesnt pay off the lien, the bank or lien holder  can come and retrieve THEIR asset and leave you having to sue the seller to get your money back. Luckily as stated, we can just go to our motor vehicle office and get a sellers kit, which states any liens registered against the vehicle.


Very good point.  I am assuming that in the USA, it's the same for RVs as cars.  The lien holder holds the title. In order for the title to be transferred to me, the lien holder, or seller if there is no lien, has to sign and transfer the title over to me.  So if the seller is currently holding the title, can I assume there is no lien???
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Charlie 5320 on October 22, 2017, 07:49:41 PM

Very good point.  I am assuming that in the USA, it's the same for RVs as cars.  The lien holder holds the title. In order for the title to be transferred to me, the lien holder, or seller if there is no lien, has to sign and transfer the title over to me.  So if the seller is currently holding the title, can I assume there is no lien???
If there was a lien holder, it would be on the title. There is also a place for the lien holder to sign off and the date it was cleared. At least in Illinois. Just because the seller has the title don't assume it has no lien.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: MN Blue Skies on October 22, 2017, 08:36:12 PM
Charlie makes a very good point. If the PO (private owner or seller) owes money on the RV you are purchasing AND/OR you are financing the purchase, the paperwork will be different than a straight up cash to purchase a free and clear title. 
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: SeilerBird on October 22, 2017, 08:44:51 PM
If there is a lien holder he will be holding the title, not the seller. All the seller will have is a registration slip which will list both the seller and the lien holder.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Bill N on October 23, 2017, 06:14:18 AM
If there is a lien holder he will be holding the title, not the seller. All the seller will have is a registration slip which will list both the seller and the lien holder.
That is not the system in all states Tom.  In my state, I have the title but it shows a lien making it non-transferable until the lien is released.  The lienholder will issue a letter showing the lien to be released to the current title holder so it can be transferred legally to the new buyer.  I get a new registration slip every time I get new plates - 2 years. 
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: SeilerBird on October 23, 2017, 06:58:47 AM
That is not the system in all states Tom.  In my state, I have the title but it shows a lien making it non-transferable until the lien is released.  The lienholder will issue a letter showing the lien to be released to the current title holder so it can be transferred legally to the new buyer.  I get a new registration slip every time I get new plates - 2 years.
Well then the title you have is not the title.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: kdbgoat on October 23, 2017, 09:14:13 AM
Well then the title you have is not the title.

Untrue statement Tom. Different states have different rules. You can post and argue that you are correct on that statement, but in the end you will be wrong.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Charlie 5320 on October 23, 2017, 09:49:21 AM
Some people THINK they know it ALL, and will argue till the cows come home. Lending institutions have different ways they do things, even in the same state. I HAVE SEEN TITLES with liens on them from the lending institution, that people have in their possession. My lending institution DOES retain the the title though, until the debt is paid, at least they did 15 years ago. 
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Ernie n Tara on October 23, 2017, 10:11:15 AM
And in Texas the lender keeps a blue title while the buyer gets a red title that is otherwise identical.

Ernie
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: SeilerBird on October 23, 2017, 10:52:20 AM
Untrue statement Tom. Different states have different rules. You can post and argue that you are correct on that statement, but in the end you will be wrong.
Ok I am wrong.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Bill N on October 24, 2017, 09:39:25 AM
I think we are really discussing various systems of showing a clear title vs encumbered title. The only thing I have seen as a title in the past 9 years in my state is the title I have in my possession issued by the state upon my purchase of a vehicle.  That title will either have a lien shown on it or not if it is clear.  When the lienholder is satisfied they send a letter to the title holder who then takes the title and letter to the local vehicle registration office to have the lien removed and a clear title issued.  I do recall when living in another state (actually several other states) that the title itself was held by the lienholder and just a certificate of registration was held by the vehicle owner.  Then when the lien was satisfied, the cleared title would be physically sent to me.  Either system works I guess

Bill
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: SeilerBird on October 24, 2017, 10:08:04 AM
I have owned cars in a half a dozen states and in every one the lien holder kept the title. But I guess other states do it differently. ???
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: kdbgoat on October 24, 2017, 10:59:30 AM
In Delaware, the lienholder has physical possession of the title, and the title has the lienholder info typed on it.

In Maryland, the vehicle owner has physical possession of the title, and the title has the lienholder info typed on it.

In Delaware, once the lien is satisfied, the lienholder will mail the title and a lien release to the vehicle owner. It is then up to the vehicle owner to take both documents to the DMV to get a clear title.

In Maryland, once the lien is satisfied, the lienholder will mail a lien release to the vehicle owner. It is then up to the vehicle owner to take the title they have in hand, along with the lien release to the DMV to get a clear title.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: YLBlues on November 06, 2017, 08:07:21 PM
In California the lien holder has possession of the title and the registration lists the lien holder information.

When the lien is satisfied, the lien holder processes with the DMV and you are sent the title in only your name.  I think you are sent a new registration with only your name as well, but memory eludes me.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Mauleman on November 06, 2017, 10:46:22 PM
In California the lien holder has possession of the title and the registration lists the lien holder information.

When the lien is satisfied, the lien holder processes with the DMV and you are sent the title in only your name.  I think you are sent a new registration with only your name as well, but memory eludes me.
  we are going through this right now here in San Diego... bought a La Palma from a private party in Menifee Cal and had to go to his credit union with a cashiers check so he could pay off his loan.... only problem we had was the credit union wouldn't accept a cashiers check and stated nothing could be done till the check cleared, which it did three days later...they then said it would take 7-10 days, but didn't say working days, for DMV to send the title back to the owner... this is known as the pink slip.,.. we pick up the MH on Wed at which time he signs the title over to us...we then are required to register it in our name with DMV...
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: YLBlues on November 06, 2017, 11:56:32 PM
  we are going through this right now here in San Diego... bought a La Palma from a private party in Menifee Cal and had to go to his credit union with a cashiers check so he could pay off his loan.... only problem we had was the credit union wouldn't accept a cashiers check and stated nothing could be done till the check cleared, which it did three days later...they then said it would take 7-10 days, but didn't say working days, for DMV to send the title back to the owner... this is known as the pink slip.,.. we pick up the MH on Wed at which time he signs the title over to us...we then are required to register it in our name with DMV...

forgot to say that my experience has only been with auto purchases and paying them off with the lender.  Waiting for the title is not an issue there, like it would be if waiting to take the new toy home.
Title: Re: Process When Buying from Private Party
Post by: Mauleman on November 08, 2017, 08:59:22 AM
well the owners credit union is the worst... the teller got that deer in the headlights look when we told her we were paying off his loan and she immediately called her manager who looked just like her when we told him;... he had to call his home office to find out what to do... they told him he couldn't accept the cashiers check even though we had called his home office the week before and were advised a cashiers check would be fine... we think they lost his title somewhere along the line and had to have time to get a copy from DMV...anyway we spent the day learning systems and procedures with the owner that day and are picking it up today... so the adventure begins... i know I'll have many questions to get answered by you experts here on the site...already have read for hours old threads on stuff.... 8)