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RVing message boards => Trailers & Fifthwheels => Topic started by: Carl L on February 03, 2006, 08:05:46 PM

Title: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Carl L on February 03, 2006, 08:05:46 PM
You all may have noticed that Ron and I tend to harp a lot on things like tow ratings, GCVWRs, and trailer weights, gross and otherwise. We do have our reasons. One of those reasons is illustrated in the attached video fille. The file has been floating around the web for a while but I think it is particularly appropriate here.

Don't let this happen to you!
 
;D

Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Frizlefrak on February 05, 2006, 07:22:26 PM
Love those locked up front brakes  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Mike Goad on February 13, 2006, 12:10:49 PM
Carl, 

Thanks for this, it is absolutely great.  I've shared it with a number of trailering co-workers at the office.  One of the "things" we're supposed to do every day is have a safety moment.  This would work great with an introduction of something like "Reasonable Expectations."
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Mike Goad on March 26, 2006, 09:46:05 AM
As a follow-up to my previous post:

I am using this video clip in a class I am currently giving. 

I'm tying it to a discussion, "How does working within your limits or the limits of your  team relate to safety."

After the discussion, I show the video, where the car is clearly not working within its limits. 

Then, later, we discuss a situation where a work team didn't work within their limits as well as they should have and the adverse consequences to that team and the plant where they used to work.

A lot of the guys in the class have RVs of one type or another, so they really appreciate this.  Others drive little, tiny cars and, of course, they get some friendly ribbing from some of thei co-workers. ;)
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: davidsimmonds on May 05, 2006, 03:16:57 PM
When I click on the link, I am asked to save the .php file instead of open the .wmv file. Why is this? I cannot play the video.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: IowaCamper on May 05, 2006, 05:16:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I click on the link, I am asked to save the .php file instead of open the .wmv file. Why is this? I cannot play the video.

Does the same thing to me.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,
John

[edit]Edited to remove commercial ad.[/edit]
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on May 05, 2006, 07:13:12 PM
It sounds like you don't have Windows Media on your PC, or it's not enabled. The file is a Windows Media file.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Jeff on May 05, 2006, 11:03:46 PM
It sounds like you don't have Windows Media on your PC, or it's not enabled. The file is a Windows Media file.

Tom:

Realplayer will also play the file.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on May 05, 2006, 11:06:41 PM
Thanks Jeff.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: davidsimmonds on May 07, 2006, 01:09:24 PM
I have all of the necessary components to allow playing a wmv file. The link for me comes up as a .php file though, not a .wmv file.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on May 07, 2006, 01:39:50 PM
I have all of the necessary components to allow playing a wmv file. The link for me comes up as a .php file though, not a .wmv file.

The full link is: http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3946.0;id=1684  which is the standard format of links here for downloads. It's not the actual file format. We're in transit right now, but I'll check out the file when we stop for the night.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Karl on May 07, 2006, 03:04:42 PM
Tom,

Worked fine for me with WMP.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on May 07, 2006, 03:09:16 PM
Thanks Karl. Same for Jeff. I can't download the file while we're on the freeway so I'll try it this evening.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on May 07, 2006, 10:26:15 PM
I've downloaded the file several times on two different computers and all the copies play just fine in Windows Media Player.

Which software are you trying to get it to play in? Does the file download OK but not play?
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: davidsimmonds on May 08, 2006, 09:11:57 AM
I click the link and the next thing I am asked is to save the .php file. This is very odd. I have never had any problems like this before, and I am not a newbie computer user, but I have no idea why it works for some and not for me.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Gary RV_Wizard on May 08, 2006, 09:59:19 AM
I wonder if you are somehow losing the last partr of the link, the   "?action=dlattach;topic=3946.0;id=1684" part that follows the "http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php".  Or your browser is not interpreting the html correctly and following through to the .wmv file itself.

What is the full name of the file you are invited to save? It should be "caravana.wmv". Are you seeing "caravana.php" or perhaps "www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php"?
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: davidsimmonds on May 08, 2006, 03:42:24 PM
I click on the link and it asks me to save index.php. There is no reference to the .wmv file.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: davidsimmonds on May 08, 2006, 03:43:10 PM
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=3946.0 is the url that ends up in the Address bar of the browser.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on May 08, 2006, 03:57:37 PM
David,

Sounds like Gary might be correct in that your browser isn't correctly interpreting the full link.

Try copying/pasting the full link into your browser address bar: http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3946.0;id=1684

If there are any spaces or something is truncated, fix it (by typing in the missing/wrong parts) before clicking to go to the link.

Let us know what happens and, if it still doesn't work, tell us which browser you're using so someone can check it out.

Thanks
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: davidsimmonds on May 09, 2006, 12:02:08 PM
I am using Microsoft Internet Explorer version 6.0.2900.2180. I pasted the link into the address bar. Nothing is missing or truncated. No spaces are in the url. I get an unknown file type message box that asks me if I want to save index.php. Why not just put the .wmv file as the link instead of the index.php url?
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on May 11, 2006, 05:57:33 PM
Why not just put the .wmv file as the link instead of the index.php url?

Because the attachments aren't stored that way on our server. Try this link (http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/attachments/1684_caravana_wmv441b8ff08c1c7d2849f5c8e8ad754cac) which avoids the .php and related stuff.

The file downloads just fine with this link, but Windows Media Player will tell you it doesn't recognize the extension and gives you the option to play it anyway. If you accept, the file should open and play just fine.

Apologies for this delayed follow-up; I've been extremely busy since we arrived home a couple of days ago.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: davidsimmonds on May 12, 2006, 11:44:28 AM
Yikes! That's bloody scary!

btw, the link Tom gave works. All you have to do is rclick the link, select Save Target As, and make sure that the extension saved is .wmv.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on May 12, 2006, 01:13:49 PM
Glad the link works David. Yes, that sure is scary.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Johncmr on February 19, 2007, 06:58:07 PM
Reminds me of that classic Amos N' Andy episode from the 50's (dating myself here??) where the Kingfish buys a travel trailer and tries to pull it with a motor scooter!!  It too smoked, just like the car in this clip. ;)

Johncmr
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: cougar3514v on March 02, 2007, 08:39:50 AM
I wasn't too sure where to insert this comment, but for a while now I've felt compelled to make an observation.  I just wanted to say that I'm impressed with the patience of the forum staff.  Over and over I have read threads here where people are trying to justify towing close to or over the rated capacity of their trucks.  I can understand the desire to avoid upgrading a TV, I'm not rich either.

When I'm towing a camper, however, three of the most precious things in the world to me are riding along: my son, my wife, and my dog.  Okay, the dog is a distant third, but I would be devastated to lose him too.  Five feet behind my 5 year old son's head is a 10,000 pound fifth wheel camper.  I'm sorry, but I'm going for overkill when it comes to the truck.  In fact, we bought a cheaper camper so that we could put more money into the truck. It makes me sick to think of my son getting injured, and to think it was because I put him in danger, I don't know if I could live with that.

I'm a careful driver, but unless the roads are all 0% grade and have no other drivers, the sky's are sunny and clear, and a 12' electric fence has been erected on either side of the road to keep the deer and other animals away, I've got to make sure my rig is under control at all times.  It's not if I'll ever have a panic situation, it's when.

Sorry, I've just felt compelled to say this for a while.  Now that it's off my chest, I feel much better.  Thanks!

-Dave
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Ron on March 02, 2007, 09:46:30 AM
Thanks for that input.  When you think about it it just doesn't make sense to put yourself,  love ones, or anybody else at risk by driving an overloaded vehicle.  Unfortunately some folks show their intelligent level by doing just that.

I very much agree with your thoughts and thank you for posting your thoughts on this.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Karl on March 03, 2007, 05:17:21 AM
Right on, Dave!
All too often people will already have a truck and then try to find the largest TT or 5th wheel possible, without giving due consideration to all the additional weight of personal items, food, water, etc., and then pack the bed of the truck with additional items like a generator, 4-wheeler, toolbox - you name it. If a person has the means, it's better to put the cart before the horse; pick out the trailer you want and then buy the tow vehicle that has enough 'headroom' to be safe under extreme conditions. This isn't always possible, so then it's better to start out with a smaller, lighter TT, upgrade to a more capable truck when you can, then get the larger, heavier TT.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: cougar3514v on March 03, 2007, 05:42:39 AM
I hope it didn't come off sounding like a rant.  I just really wanted to let the forum staff know how impressed I am with your patience and kindness in answering those questions.  I teach for a living, and I know how it is when my students ask me a question that I've already covered in class a half dozen times, they could have found in the reading, or it's clear they are just trying to avoid doing the work.  The urge to be sarcastic in my reply is hard to ignore.

Thanks for all of your patience and hard work!  :)

-Dave
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on March 03, 2007, 05:59:20 AM
I hope it didn't come off sounding like a rant. ...The urge to be sarcastic in my reply is hard to ignore.

It sure didn't sound/read like a rant to me Dave and I didn't detect any hint of sarcasm. Your comment was very much appreciated. I don't personally answer a lot of the questions here, especially on trailer/towing issues, and prefer to leave that to our experts. As you correctly noted, they are very patient.

If anyone is interested in reading more about these knowledgeable, experienced and dedicated folks, click the Hosts button in the toolbar above.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: cougar3514v on March 03, 2007, 06:10:08 AM
So that's what that "Hosts" button is for.  I've never clicked on it because I thought it would take me to a description of the computers/servers that were hosting this site.  I'm not very interested in that.  Thanks, Tom!  I learn something new every day!

-Dave
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Karl on March 03, 2007, 06:18:06 AM
Quote
So that's what that "Hosts" button is for.
Maybe we need a 'mouse-over' that says "click here to see the blithering idiots who have nothing better to do at 4 in the morning" ;D
Quote
As you correctly noted, they are very patient.
Not always ::)
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: cougar3514v on March 03, 2007, 06:39:55 AM
And another cool thing about the "Hosts" button is that I can finally see what Karl looks like! :D 

-Dave
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on March 03, 2007, 06:43:54 AM
Dave,

I suppose I could have used "Staff" or some similar term, but started to use "Hosts" when we were at our prior location and it stuck.

Quote
I can finally see what Karl looks like!

I won't ask if you prefer the real thing or the photo of Hercule the attack cat  ;D  Seriously, if you met Karl in person you'd understand how nice a guy he is.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on March 03, 2007, 06:45:15 AM
LOL Karl, most folks don't realize how much of a labor of love this is for the dedicated folks on the team.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: ArdraF on March 03, 2007, 02:38:21 PM
Quote
three of the most precious things in the world to me are riding along: my son, my wife, and my dog.

I say more power to you.  Never can understand why some folks don't look at it that way.  You'll find those of us who have been on this RV Forum for some time tend to be safety oriented.  The safety of you and your loved ones (including the dog) should be your first priority.

ArdraF
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Shayne on March 03, 2007, 09:12:02 PM
Dave  You trying to tell me Karl doen't look as he does on the avitor.  ang I 've met him in person and thought taht really is him.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Carl L on March 04, 2007, 12:00:28 AM
Dave  You trying to tell me Karl doen't look as he does on the avitor.  ang I 've met him in person and thought taht really is him.

Yeah, the avatar was taken when he was much younger and had a lot more hair.   But then so did we all.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: cougar3514v on March 04, 2007, 09:49:41 AM
I'm embarrassed to admit that the first thing I needed to do was Google "avatar" to figure out what the heck you all were talking about.  Man, I'm so out of the technology loop.  Now that I know, well, heck, if I squint, I can see the resemblance between Hercule and Karl.  The Attack Kat looks a lot happier though.  :D

-Dave
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Pierat on January 01, 2008, 04:06:43 PM
Is that what they mean when they say they're giving you a "smokin' deal" on an RV?  :)
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: topnotchtree on March 27, 2008, 03:53:06 PM
I am currently looking to upgrade my tt to a fifth wheel. I have a 2006 Dodge 2500 with the Hemi and I believe they are 373 gears. We had a very nice Cardinal picked out and then I realized it was too heavy for my truck to pull. I argued with the sales lady because she said because it was a fifth wheel with a 2000# hitch weight, I could deduct 2000#'s from the trailer weight because the hitch weight was in the truck bed and not behind it being towed. Sure I understood her point, and with her thinking I was safely in my limits for trailer weight but I was over on my GCWR rating.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Karl on March 28, 2008, 04:53:58 AM
Topnotchtree,

Do not believe anything that comes out of a salesperson's mouth, or at least take it with a pound of salt. With very few exceptions, they have no clue about tow ratings. Short of being paid for their knowledge, we have some of the most professional experts on the subject right here; I am not one of them. Give them the numbers they ask for (no more and no less - "Just the facts, Ma'am") and they'll tell you if you're overweight, underpowered, or within the ballpark.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: PancakeBill on March 28, 2008, 10:07:43 AM
When you look at a tow guide you can understand why the confusion, there are abou 60 entries for an 06 Dodge 2500.  cab design, bed design, engine, diff ratio, 2wd 4wd etc. 

The 373 cuts you back quite a bit.  For instance, a 2500 QC LB 4WD with Hemi is 8650, while the same truck in  manual trans and a 410 is 10650.  Yhe guides we have to work with don't give much more as far as bed loading etc. 

If you post the info I'll get you the info I have.  Remember GCVWR, C being combined.  Bigger number, but one not to exceed.  We have a 1000 pound guideline for packed gear and water etc.  Need at least that much capacity.  However based on the trailer, it is just a guideline.  A toy hauler would need much more, a little trailer, a little less.  A 12' trailer probably doesn't have 1000 of Cargo Carrying Capacity. 

Our sales guys are schooled in this stuff, and we will not be allowed to sell something outside of the parameters.  Of course the argument can still be that the 1,000 is way too liberal.  This is why I talk about this issue with my customer.

Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: utmtman on March 28, 2008, 11:31:28 AM
That is a scary video for sure.   I remember in the old days when a lot of cars pulled trailers.  A real rarity now days.  And many had their fair share of problems from over heating to blowing engines and loosing brakes. 
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: dieseldoug on August 22, 2008, 12:47:07 PM
I am currently looking to upgrade my tt to a fifth wheel. I have a 2006 Dodge 2500 with the Hemi and I believe they are 373 gears. We had a very nice Cardinal picked out and then I realized it was too heavy for my truck to pull. I argued with the sales lady because she said because it was a fifth wheel with a 2000# hitch weight, I could deduct 2000#'s from the trailer weight because the hitch weight was in the truck bed and not behind it being towed. Sure I understood her point, and with her thinking I was safely in my limits for trailer weight but I was over on my GCWR rating.

The sales lady is a bit confused.  subtracting pin weight from trailer gross weight will tell you how many pounds are sitting on the trailer axles, to be sure.  And thats a good way to see if the trailer axles are themselves properly sized.  But its not a good way to express towing capacity of your TV  because your truck's engine and drivetrain don't care if the weight is on the truck or on the trialer -- the weight still has to be pulled.  and the towing capacities listed in ower's manuals or spec sheets always assume the truck bed is empty anyway. 

I was looking at Cardinals too when I had a 3/4 ton dodge.  not to repeat the whole wieight discussion again (i.e. meet GVWR, GAWR, GCWR at the same time), I quickly learned to calculate available pin weight by subtracting the truck's own weight from the GVWR.  I traded up to a 1 ton :-).  We have a DOT scale here about 20 miles from town.  I waited for a break in the steady stream of comercial trucks coming through, and got the axle weights for my truck.

GCWR is a statement from the manufacturer about the capability of the truck.  it reflects the durability of the drive train and the mfg's obligation to fix something if it breaks while operating within the stated load.

Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: ihealthi on July 24, 2009, 12:00:51 PM
I too passed up on the "host" button thinking it was an entrypath for the hosts to log in or something like that.  Nice bio's on all of you.  Thanks for the time that you take to help out here!!!  BTW - Loved the "visual" on the why's of tow ratings!
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Tom on July 24, 2009, 12:48:51 PM
Glad you found us all ihealthi. Good point re the 'Hosts' button; I'll try to make it more obvious in the next major makeover of the forum, which include a new menu system.
Title: Re: The why of tow ratings.
Post by: Vet1 on August 10, 2009, 05:28:04 PM
Woah! :o

If that isn't a pucker moment then it is definitely time to change the shorts. Remarkable and spectacular.
The person driving that vehicles is a stupid menace to all living things. Not only should he not have tried it with such a small vehicle, but he should have stopped when everything started smoking instead of speeding up to outrun the smoke.

Also, his experience is just as much a menace and much like it did, he was a bad scene waiting to happen. At one point before the whole rig began to roll aft, it came to a stop. I think I even heard the car go of and trying to start it? That is called the point of no return and the first thing he should have done is jack knife the vehicle, lock the tranni and brakes and step on the emergency brake like you would a bug, before rear ward momentum builds so much that the energy required to stop is exceeded. That whole crap was preventable. Anybody see the rear wheels on the trailer spinning? I wonder what happened to the brakes?

J