EPDM Coatings
RV LED Bulbs offer Sponsored by Spotless Water Systems Sponsored by RV Upgrades width= Composet Products EVDO

Author Topic: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler  (Read 7824 times)

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« on: November 16, 2007, 12:27:04 AM »
My thought of which truck to buy went up in flames tonite as I got in the middle of a neighborly Ford/Chevy debate between two dieseling-toy-hauling buddies. And here I thought I'd just back away with a Cummins-powered Dodge. They'll have none of that  ;D as they made it their duty to tell me that while the Dodge's motor is primo, its tranny, brakes, AC power and cabin noise are problems.

And here I thought that all I had to do was read the automobile edition of Consumer Reports and all would be well.   ;)  CR says that the Dodge has a significantly lower repair incidence than either the Chevy or Ford, but my neighbors still like to impress upon me the finer points of this issue.

If only I could combine a Ford body, Chevy Allison tranny, and the Cummins from the Dodge.

Good thing I'm only a slight hurry (still getting my truck ready for sale).

On to the trailer:

Having taken some brief looks through craigslist, TrailerTrader and other publications as well as reading posts here, my world view as it pertains to outdoor recreation and the getting there has changed.

I'm now considering a (ballpark) 30-foot-ish toyhauler in 5th-wheel format tugged with that 3/4ton diesel to-be-named-later. This combo has to allow the storage of my 1300-pound Polaris Ranger, a quad or two, and a 250-pound dirt bike. That's a lot of volume (not to mention weight) to put inside a toyhauler.

A twist: the prices of used toyhaulers, 5th-wheels included, appear to be far less than I had expected, making many 2000 to 2005 models within my reach. Granted, I don't know which of these manufacturers to avoid yet (or to concentrate on). That will take more research.


Rick

janpaul

  • ---
  • Posts: 348
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2007, 05:56:14 AM »
You will need to find one with a very large rear section, if seperated by a wall, or one without the rear dividing wall would probably give you more volume for your large capacity needs. Just make sure that it will carry all that weight and that the GVWR of the camper is not too much for the truck, something that heavy may need a one ton towing it. FWIW, we have a Keystone Raptor Toy hauler and have not had any major problems, and we are very pleased with it.
2005 Chevy 2500 HD Ext Cab 4x4, Duramax/Allison
AFE Stage 2 Intake, MBRP Cool Duals, Pac Brake exhaust brake
B&W Turnover Ball, Curt X5 Rail adapter & Curt 16K E5 Hitch
2007 Keystone Raptor 299MP, Fifth Airborne Sidewinder Air Ride
Paul, Janice, Erica, Olivia

edjunior

  • ---
  • Posts: 1853
  • Roman Forest, TX
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2007, 08:53:43 AM »
Yup, after reading your requirements, you definitely may need to rethink your truck.  With that much being hauled, in addition to the weight of the hauler itself, you may be busting the 3/4 ton mark.  You should probably be looking at the 1 ton (3500/350), or possibly even the 450 (Ford).  The way your describing your search methods, it might certainly be best if you find the trailer first, get the weights of that, then go find the truck capable of pulling it all.
Ed.....KF5INW
2011 F-250 XLT, 6.7L PSD
2010 Forest River Wildcat 28RKBS
"I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong!"

Gary RV Roamer

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 42331
  • We're on the road again...
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2007, 09:02:53 AM »
Many of the toyhaulers I have looked at are cheaply built and clearly  targeted for the weekend user who spends most of their time (and money) in/on the toys rather than the RV. That's why the prices are relatively low compared to  trailers with better interior materials, cabinetry, etc.  Nothing wrong with that - it all depends on where your priorities lie and how big the budget is.

As for the truck, you can probably decide on which you like better and not worry to much about the "finer points". Dodge has been improving their transmission and the new Cummins is quieter than the older ones. Chevy/GMC has the Duromax and the Allison and is hard to beat.   Ford is a really sweet truck but has had some nagging problems with their 6 liter Powerstoke. However, those should be mostly behind them now.

I haven't looked at the repair trends lately but most everybody I know with a Chevy/GMC is ecstatic about their truck. But then, truck owners tend to be very proud of THEIR brand (as you have seen).

Don't buy the truck until you are sure about the weight of the trailer. And use the trailer GVWR as the required tow capacity, not the dry weight.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
2004 American Tradition
2007 GMC Acadia
Homebase: Ocala National Forest, FL

Ron

  • Former Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 18115
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2007, 09:10:15 AM »
Personally I go with Consumer Reports on this one.  Buy a real Truck not a wanna be. Go with the Dodge.  Far better than the others IMHO.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Lowell

  • ---
  • Posts: 1704
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2007, 10:09:28 AM »
I happen to have a Dodge but I like all makes of trucks.     ::)  If you are buying a truck new, you might want to check out December 2007 issue of Popular Mechanics.  The difference in fuel economy between the GMC/Chevy and the others was impressive! 
Lowell

2005 Cherokee28A TT
pulled by 2009 Dodge 1500 Crew Cab 4X4
KF7YET

Tempe, Arizona

Carl L

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 7231
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2007, 03:14:13 PM »
My thought of which truck to buy went up in flames tonite as I got in the middle of a neighborly Ford/Chevy debate between two dieseling-toy-hauling buddies. And here I thought I'd just back away with a Cummins-powered Dodge. They'll have none of that  ;D as they made it their duty to tell me that while the Dodge's motor is primo, its tranny, brakes, AC power and cabin noise are problems.

And here I thought that all I had to do was read the automobile edition of Consumer Reports and all would be well.   ;)  CR says that the Dodge has a significantly lower repair incidence than either the Chevy or Ford, but my neighbors still like to impress upon me the finer points of this issue.

If only I could combine a Ford body, Chevy Allison tranny, and the Cummins from the Dodge.

Good thing I'm only a slight hurry (still getting my truck ready for sale).

On to the trailer:

Having taken some brief looks through craigslist, TrailerTrader and other publications as well as reading posts here, my world view as it pertains to outdoor recreation and the getting there has changed.

I'm now considering a (ballpark) 30-foot-ish toyhauler in 5th-wheel format tugged with that 3/4ton diesel to-be-named-later. This combo has to allow the storage of my 1300-pound Polaris Ranger, a quad or two, and a 250-pound dirt bike. That's a lot of volume (not to mention weight) to put inside a toyhauler.

A twist: the prices of used toyhaulers, 5th-wheels included, appear to be far less than I had expected, making many 2000 to 2005 models within my reach. Granted, I don't know which of these manufacturers to avoid yet (or to concentrate on). That will take more research.


Rick

The discussion of the merits the various brands of truck takes on religious dimensions and usually is as profitable as any other kind of religious quarrel.   What you will need in a truck will depend almost entirely on the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the trailer that you buy.  Rear axle weight ratings with a toy hauler will also figure into the issue as toyhauler pin weights tend to be on the high side.

To nail down a truck go to the tow ratings in Trailer Life's website Tech section and determine the truck specs for the tow rating that is 10% over your GVWR.   For example if your trailer has a 10,000 lb GVWR, look for a truck with a 11,100 lb tow rating.   Go for a diesel -- a gasoline engine would require a 20% safety factor for the mountain and Paciific west, making that required tow rating for a 10,000 GVWR trailer go up to 12,500 lbs. 

Do not be surprised if your toy hauler of choice forces you to a 350 or 450 truck.   Toys weigh up.

 
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2007, 07:24:05 PM »
I'm impressed that you've all kept civil about the whick-truck-is-better fight .   ;D

This weekend I'll take pen to paper and add up the weights of my toys (and potential future toys).

I have no problem with a 1-ton, but I'm an efficiency nut. I get a perverse amount of satisfaction by getting just enough tool to do the job. It drives me and my wife batty. Maybe I'll deviate from the past and get that 20% cushion.   ;)

For those of you who are curious, Consumer reports takes repair data on hundreds of vehicles. As you might suspect, the Toyotas are by far the most reliable (the 2007 Texas plant problem notwithstanding), but they are not diesels. The Dodge 2500 diesel is just a hair above average, and the Chevy and Ford trucks (gas and diesel) are significantly more troublesome (80% more). As far as over-all reliability, there isn't a question that Dodge beats the rest as far as $$$ when visiting the repair shop. All the other characteristics that make a vehicle heaven or heck are a different story.

Can you give me a short list of manufacturers to avoid, and those you'd consider (remember, I'm on a budget and I'm cheap).

Thanks,

Rick

Gary RV Roamer

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 42331
  • We're on the road again...
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2007, 08:05:55 PM »
Buying just enough truck is foolhardy, unless "just enough" includes a generous margin for safety and performance. And you should plan on enough truck to allow for a possible change of trailer in a few years - the truck will last a long time.

Quote
Can you give me a short list of manufacturers to avoid, and those you'd consider (remember, I'm on a budget and I'm cheap).

In a word, NO.  Every time I tell somebody to avoid the low end manufacturers and cheap brands and buy further upscale (even if used), several people dump on me for wanting only high class amenities, not understanding budget constraints, yada yada yada. And somebody else tells me how great his El Cheapo special, never breaks down and gets 30 mpg too.   

Besides, they are a zillion regional brands that may be perfectly OK but we know nothing about. It would be ashame to rule them out.

Instead, look closely at the cabinet work, wall & floor coverings, furniture construction, etc. These are all good indicators of build quality. And if one rig has all the same amenities as another but is several thousand dollars cheaper, ask yourself "what corners did they cut to do that?" Weight is another indicator - if one trailer is a lot lighter than another of the same style and size, they probably skimped on the frame.

Last but not least, pay close attention to the weight ratings so there is enough capacity for those toys. Check the axle & tire ratings - many manufacturers skimp there, putting on a pair of axles that are less than the trailer GVWR, which they justified on the basis that the truck carries a ton or so of the trailer weight. Won't they don't say is that the brakes & tires on those axles  are sized for just the axle capacity, so you end up with too little brakes on the trailer and marginal tire capacity. By the way, bigger is better on the tires - look for 16 inch wheels as one indicator of a well designed rig.

Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
2004 American Tradition
2007 GMC Acadia
Homebase: Ocala National Forest, FL

Carl L

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 7231
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2007, 09:51:16 PM »
This weekend I'll take pen to paper and add up the weights of my toys (and potential future toys).

I have no problem with a 1-ton, but I'm an efficiency nut. I get a perverse amount of satisfaction by getting just enough tool to do the job. It drives me and my wife batty. Maybe I'll deviate from the past and get that 20% cushion.   ;)


Adding up the toys is good exercise.  Add about a half ton to a ton for fluids, groceries, personal gear, and goodies.   Compare that number with the carrying capacity of trailers to get what you need in trailer.  Then take that trailer's GVWR with a 10% safety factor (GVWR divided by 0.9) to come up with the diesel truck tow rating you need.

Please remember, in these calculations we are talking about safety and maintenance costs.  An overloaded truck is dangerous on grades an in crosswinds and it will cost you a bundle in the maintenance of brakes, drive train, and suspension.
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2007, 09:47:54 AM »
Sounds like next to my house, this is going to be one of the most important purchases I've ever contemplated -- for various reasons.

Quote
Weight is another indicator - if one trailer is a lot lighter than another of the same style and size, they probably skimped on the frame.

Good info. I'm more concerned with frame and axles in my mind right now.

16" wheels. Check. 

Time for more window shopping. Back in a few days.

Thanks,

Rick

BronekR

  • ---
  • Posts: 65
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2007, 05:25:30 PM »
"My thought of which truck to buy went up in flames tonite as I got in the middle of a neighborly Ford/Chevy debate between two dieseling-toy-hauling buddies. And here I thought I'd just back away with a Cummins-powered Dodge."

You won't go wrong with a Dodge Ram Diesel. Late model trucks are much improved, and Chevy and ford have problems ;D

"as they made it their duty to tell me that while the Dodge's motor is primo, its tranny, brakes, AC power and cabin noise are problems."

The older transmissions 47Re were junk!. The new 48Re transmission is trouble free, ac and cabin noise.... maybe some isolated case.
2004  245 EFS Cougar 26' 5er
Honda EU3000is Generator

The best towing truck
2005 Dodge Cummins diesel

Shayne

  • ---
  • Posts: 4337
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2007, 06:14:31 PM »
Just buy what your wife likes  hey all have problems   I'm a Ford man myself and it's all a matter of choice    If the Ford and Chevy or so bad why is Ford # 1 whenit's the highest priced  Chevy is # 3 is truck  sales and Dodge is # 4 and it's cheapest of the bunch dollar wise.  Just make sure you get enough truck to do the job.,  JMO
Old, Stubborn, Opinionated, Set in my Ways, and Independent,  IMHO

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2007, 06:31:18 PM »
2005 or 2006 seems to be my sweet spot, price-wise. Kelly Blue Book (KBB.com) has private party sales at about $30,000 +/- for the 1-ton and several hundred dollars under that for the 3/4 ton. Doesn't look like that will be an issue -- just whether I can find enough 3500s out there. Lots of 3/4 tons as you'd expect.

So, equipment and reliability has to be based those years.

Any reason not to go with the auto transmission? I'm surprised to see so many 5-speed and 6-speed manuals for sale on CraigsList and trucktrader.

Both neighbors tell me that the Dodge is very noisy in the cab, with the Fords being quieter and the Chevy's being surprisingly quiet. One said that he took a trip in his buddy's Dodge and could barely hold a conversation over the noise. I can vouch for the relative quietness of my neighbor's Duramax 2500 as it isn't nearly as "rattly" sounding as many others.

Rick

Shayne

  • ---
  • Posts: 4337
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2007, 07:51:44 PM »
They are for sale because the Autos are better.   No need for a stick in todays market and really hasn't been for many many years.   These are old hard heads that never change.   I changed to A/T in 1953  Outside of marring my wife,  might be one of the smartest things I ever did.   No more dang clutch to replace or contend with.  JMO
Old, Stubborn, Opinionated, Set in my Ways, and Independent,  IMHO

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2007, 08:30:33 PM »
I went out and calculated the gross weight of the Ranger (wet) and actually weighed the others...

Polaris Ranger -- 1350
Polaris Quad -- 240
Polaris Quad -- 240
Kawasaki -- 250
Li'l Honda -- 110

Total -- 2190

We usually do three-day weekends where 80 gallons of water is more than enough.

We have to pack tools for the toys, heavy motocross clothing (40 pounds per bag x 3) = 120

Food, clothing, etc.

Here is an example of a 5th-wheel advertised in the Phx Craig's List

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/rvs/472137394.html

and a bunch of others:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=toy+hauler+fifth+wheel&minAsk=15000&maxAsk=30000&hasPic=1

Rick
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 08:35:42 PM by AZRickD »

hornethauler

  • ---
  • Posts: 5
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2007, 10:14:50 PM »
Of the big 3 trucks in 3/4 or 1 ton it doesn't matter, they all have problems. Look at what your gonna buy make teh sure the truck is enough. I always buy when I get the most for my dollar. As far as buying a truck that will ''just'' be enough that will cause problems. Maxing out your trucks capacity is dangerous and puts more wear and tear on the truck. I always like seeing 1/2 ton trucks towing 30ft+ 9000lb TT's and 5th'ers. Sure they can do it but is its safe and good for the truck, not IMO.

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2007, 11:25:31 PM »
I've been searching the web sites you mentioned (TrailerLife, etc).

Here are the specs on the 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 Quad/4x4 short bed diesel

from the Dodge Towing Guide http://www-5.dodge.com/towing5/D/vehicle_to_weight.jsp

2005 dodge ram 3500 pickup 3500 SLT, QUAD CAB, 4WD, 6.25 Ft Bed, 4-Speed Automatic Transmission, 5.9L High-Output Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine:

With 3.73 Axle Ratio Axle Ratio You Can Tow 13950 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 9900 lbs
Payload = 2981 lbs
Curb Weight = 6919 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 4136 lbs/4136 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 lbs/6200 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 21000 lbs

With 4.10 Axle Ratio Axle Ratio You Can Tow 15950 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 9900 lbs
Payload = 2981 lbs
Curb Weight = 6919 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 4136 lbs/4136 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 lbs/6200 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 23000 lbs

Gary RV Roamer

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 42331
  • We're on the road again...
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2007, 11:11:47 AM »
The only way you are going to know whether the 05-06 Dodge is too noisy for you is to drive one - and more than a trip around the block too. Try to get an extended test drive, even if at a dealer you don't want to do business with. Another easy test - fire it up and then stand outside and have a conversation with the salesman and your wife, in and around the truck while it is running. It probably won't bother you at first, but see what you think after several minutes. Outside noise may not be a real big issue - it is usually much quieter inside, but it gives a basis for comparison among the three.

I found our 99 Ford diesel truck most annoying at fast food drive throughs and toll booths (cause I had to listen to what somebody outside the truck was saying through the window). Traffic light stops came next, but a distant third to the other two.  The newer ones are quite a bit quieter, though
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
2004 American Tradition
2007 GMC Acadia
Homebase: Ocala National Forest, FL

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2007, 12:35:27 PM »
The only way you are going to know whether the 05-06 Dodge is too noisy for you is to drive one -
That's on our dance card for today.   ;D

Busy, busy, busy.

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2007, 08:16:53 PM »
We went and test drove '08 F350 4x4 and Dodge 3500.

Given that these were MSRP at nearly $50K, I don't know what good it did me, but for the balance, we liked the Ford better.

The Ford had more comfy seats, better interior, just a tad longer bed which help for stuffing a pair of dirt bikes in them when not hauling the trailer. The Ford also had better performance off the line and into the upper revs, such that they were. The Dodge motor was actually quieter than the Ford on the outside while it was about the same on the inside. My wife hated the Dodge seats because they were not long enough to support her thigh. I have shorter legs and they didn't do much for me either. She hated the seats five minutes into our 20-minute ride. The other problem was that she prefers the Dodge "Mega Cab" planform. This was an enormous cabin with enough room in back to recline the seats. The regular Dodge "Quad Cab" is just slightly bigger than Chevy's extended cab and had seats that were uncomfortably upright.

I bumped into my neighbor today, fresh from the Enduro-Cross race in Las Vegas. He had just sold his 2006 6.0L F250 (trouble-free in 60K miles) and purchased an '08 F350 for towing a new 37-foot Fiver (about 17,000 pounds, loaded, I think).   :o He has airbags on the F350 and a $2500 sliding hitch.

We talked it over and his opinion was that I'd be better off going with a bumper-pull trailer with the proper load-distributing gear and sticking with a 3/4 ton. He also suggested getting one that was under 30', if everything fit, to avoid the likelihood of a third axle.

As for the tow vehicle, he used to be a Chevy guy when his vehicles were purchased for him by his company. When he had to buy one for himself, he added up the plusses and minuses and they equaled Ford. He said Ford's "Torque-Master" tranny is worthy of competing with the Allison tranny.

His opinion of the Chevy was that it was literally glued together, squeaked, and had a frame of questionable strength.

As for the trailer he would consider, he said I was safe with any of the sub-brands made by Thor.

I have new data points, anyway.    :D

That 2002 Ford F250 with the 7.3L is lookin' better and better. My neighbor says it doesn't hold a candle to the 6.0 or 6.4 Ford, but his opinion is that 7.3 has all I'd need.

Rick


Gary RV Roamer

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 42331
  • We're on the road again...
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2007, 09:12:31 PM »
You need not worry about the F250 just because it is a "3/4 ton".  The F250 and F350 are essentially identical - it's just that the F350 when configured with dual rear wheels can carry more weight on the truck bed and therefore on the hitch. The F250 and F350 SRW are identical in towing capacity and payload.

You need to be looking at the actual numbers in the towing guides and forget your (and others) possible misconceptions. 

Here is a set for Ford 2002-2008 Towing

Here is the current Dodge Towing Guide

And here is Chevy/GMC:

2005 Chevy/GMC Specs
2008 Chevy/GMC specs




Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
2004 American Tradition
2007 GMC Acadia
Homebase: Ocala National Forest, FL

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2007, 12:48:21 AM »
What I really have to get now is some reliable numbers on the GVWR for the toy haulers. We were going to get that at the RV lot after the truck shopping was done but my family was zonked.

BTW, my neighbor stuffs a Rhino in the back of his, along with two or three dirt bikes and he opted for an 8.5' wide trailer.

Rick

Gary RV Roamer

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 42331
  • We're on the road again...
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2007, 11:50:38 AM »
Quote
What I really have to get now is some reliable numbers on the GVWR for the toy haulers.

Yeap, that goes and in hand with the truck data. You can get GVWR (or Dry Weight plus Carrying Capacity) from nearly all the manufactures web sites. Stay home and let your fingers do the walking, at least for the the first stage.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
2004 American Tradition
2007 GMC Acadia
Homebase: Ocala National Forest, FL

Carl L

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 7231
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2007, 12:40:39 PM »
What I really have to get now is some reliable numbers on the GVWR for the toy haulers. We were going to get that at the RV lot after the truck shopping was done but my family was zonked.

Rick

Whut Gary says.  However, if you are actually at a dealer's lot, you can find the GVWR of a trailer on the DOT plate -- left hand side of the trailer exterior at the front.

Did we ever say that you should never trust anything a salesman tells you?  No?  Well we should have.  ;D
« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 12:42:46 PM by Carl L »
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

edjunior

  • ---
  • Posts: 1853
  • Roman Forest, TX
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2007, 02:27:59 PM »
Yeah, what Carl says.  'Cause you can bet out of 10 dealers you speak to, 11 will tell you "Oh, that truck will pull this no problem!".  Go ahead, try it and see.

As a case in point, I went to one dealer once and talked to him about 5th wheels.  I asked him what the tow capacity of my truck was (2003 Ford F-250, crew cab, short bed, 5.4L gas engine, 3.73 rear end...all those factor in to the tow capacity).  He said the F-250 has a tow rating of 12,000 pounds.  I asked him if that's what "MY" truck will tow.  He said yes, that truck can tow up to 12,000 pounds.  I already knew the answer of course.  And he even went to the dealer site and downloaded the tow specs for the F-250.  When I tried to point out to him all the specifics of my truck, he kept insisting that it could tow up to 12,000 pounds.

Just one example.
Ed.....KF5INW
2011 F-250 XLT, 6.7L PSD
2010 Forest River Wildcat 28RKBS
"I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong!"

Ron

  • Former Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 18115
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2007, 04:52:06 PM »
IMHO most salesman or dealers will tell you what ever they perceive you need to hear to close a sale.  They aren't concerned since it is not their safety that may be at risk.  Good rule is never belive a salesman.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2007, 07:28:57 PM »
Looks like the sweetspot is an '06 Dodge 2500 MegaCab. This based on price, reliability, and my wife's insistance.      :-X

Selection isn't too bad, so I'll take my time to find a good deal.

Now, the really hard part. The trailer. This could take a while.

Later, (much   :D  )

Rick

Carl L

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 7231
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2007, 08:20:47 PM »
Looks like the sweetspot is an '06 Dodge 2500 MegaCab. This based on price, reliability, and my wife's insistance.      :-X

Selection isn't too bad, so I'll take my time to find a good deal.

Now, the really hard part. The trailer. This could take a while.


So what is the tow rating of the rig?
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

AZRickD

  • ---
  • Posts: 42
Re: Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2007, 12:53:17 AM »
Here is the generic info from the Dodge Towing Guide. I'll check for actual numbers when I find a suitable one for purchase. The 3500 would give me ~900 more capacity.

Trailer Life has similar numbers that sometimes vary with tranny, ratios etc, sometimes not.

http://www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/TowingRatings_p20_33.pdf

Quote
2006 dodge ram pickup 2500 LARAMIE MEGA CAB, MEGA CAB, 4WD, 6.25 FT Bed, 4-Speed Automatic Transmission, 5.9-Liter HO Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine:

With 3.73 Axle Ratio Axle Ratio You Can Tow 12500 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 9000 lbs
Payload = 1669 lbs
Curb Weight = 7331 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 4354 lbs/4354 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 lbs/6010 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 20000 lbs

With 4.10 Axle Ratio Axle Ratio You Can Tow 12500 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 9000 lbs
Payload = 1669 lbs
Curb Weight = 7331 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 4354 lbs/4354 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 lbs/6010 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 20000 lbs