Sweet spot in used 3/4t trucks with 10,000 lb tow capacity?

I'd like to buy a used late model, 3/4 ton, extended cab pickup with a tow rating of 10,000 pounds, give or take.  We plan on buying a trailer in the range of 7500-8000 gross weight at some point this year also.  Towing will be 5,000 miles a year, including some trips over mountains.

Local use of the truck will mostly be very short trips, hardly getting it warmed up, plus occasional runs for construction materials.  Total non-towing miles are only another 5,000 miles a year, based on how I use my current F150.  It won't be my main vehicle.

I have brand predjudices, mostly negative.   But I'll leave them out for now. 

Diesels?: I'm put off by the high price of the fuel, and I don't drive enough miles to get too worked up about MPG.  And there is my abundance of local short trips, which can't be good for a diesel?  But I know they are great for towing.

Should I stick with gas?
Any feedback on the Toyota Tundra (albeit only a 1/2t) 5.7 V8, with a tow rating above 10K?  However, most likely I'm looking used, something that is say 3 years and 50K miles old, to save some money and still get a good truck.  I just don't put enough miles on to justify a new one, IMO.  I've heard some bad things about the 6.x liter GM.

Specific suggestions welcome!

Diesel v. gas is a long standing debate.  For pulling ability diesel gets the edge.  Since its torque curve maximum is at a lower RPM than a gasser's, the diesel will give you better pulling power at low rpms.  That has got to count for towing mileage, especially in hill country.   On the other hand a gasser has a natural engine brake, saving your service brakes on long downhills.  Diesels need the addition of a engine braking unit -- if the truck does not come with one, that is an additional expense.

Where diesel does shine is in the mountain and Pacific west with its high altitudes and long long grades.  Normally aspirated engines like gas engines lose 3% of rated HP per 1000 feet of altitude.  For instance at Flagstaff AZ near the Grand Canyon you are towing at 7000 feet above sea level with only 79% of your power rating.  For that reason, we recommend allowing a safety factor of 20% on tow ratings in the West.   Because they are turbo charged, diesels lose only 1%/1000 ft. and can ignore the problem.

Finding that Toyota is going to be a problem.  I suspect they are commanding a premium and only two configurations with the 5.7 have the 10,000+ rating.

Have I confused the situation enough?  ;D

Hi Carl,

No, you haven't created any confusion.   
I guess deep down I know that a diesel would be a fine way to go.  But I do wonder about the capabilities of a large V8 these days.

Normally I'd be in the flatlands and thick air.  I can't rule out the higher elevations if we are going to eventually see the whole darn country. 

I wouldn't begin to attempt to use a 1/2 ton Japanese truck to pull a 7500-8000lb trailer in a hilly area.

3/4 ton from Dodge, Ford, or GM is your answer.  Any of these trucks with the big V8's and proper axle ratios should get it done much better than a Japanese 1/2 ton.

There is a reason you almost never see a Tundra or Titan pulling a heavy trailer.

Good luck,

Matt

I can't add much to what Carl already wrote.   You aren't going to be happy with the fuel mileage of a big block gas engine either (the 8.1L V8 or Ford/Dodge V10) and the small block engines don't pull very well (and probably won't have the 10k rating either).

I see the GM 6.0L engine in a2500 is rated for 10.0k-10.5k, so at least it meets your criteria. The relatively modest torque (and mediocre at low RPMS) is the drawback, though.

Good luck finding a used Tundra with the 10k tow rating! You might find a Ford or Chevy/GMC 1500 with the 10k configuration, though. Check the Trailer Life Towing Guides for the variants that have 10k ratings.

http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175

If you find a 1/2 GM/GMC with a 10K pulling capacity, you will end up with the "MAX" towing package, which is a hodge podge of a half ton and 3/4 truck, bascially the bigger engine,  6 speed tranny, an inbetween corporate 12 bolt rear axle and an overpriced "package" upgrade.  Better off sticking with a true 3/4 or 1 ton truck to get the bigger frame, axle and brakes to truely handle the load.  I would shy away from the newer dodges, since they are using the same engine as the 1/2 ton.  You're getting a 345 cu/5.7 hemi with bigger axles/brakes/frame/heavier truck and same tranny as 1/2 ton.  It will be a true gas hog on it's own, even without 8k of trailer behind it.  There's no MDS in the 3/4 ton doge or 1/2 mega cab (which is a 1 ton frame with 3/4 axles and 1/2 ton badging), so it will run on all 8 cylinders al the time.  You'll be looking at 12-14 at best with the 3/4 ton and 10-12 with the 1/2 t mega cab.

Ford's V10 is not a true "big block", more a 5.4/4.6 block with two extra cylinders tacked on measuring in at around 415 cu, which is essentially the upper cubic inch range of a small block.  If you want true big block V8, you're left with the last survivor, which is GM 8.1 engine, since ford hasn't used the 460 for almost 10 years.  Dodge had the 8.0L viper engine in it's 1st and second generation rams, but it's real gas hog (practically single diget mpg's).

You could probably pick up a big block GM for cheap with the fuel prices.  It's not offered anymore on new vehicles.  The 6.0 would probably squeeke by, but if you want a cushy tow margin on the mountains, diesel is your only option.  5.9 cummins are strong engines, but some complain of the truck falling apart around the engine.  The 1st and 2nd generation duramax didn't have the big torque numbers that the new ones do, but paired with the allison tranny, they do alright.  A lot of people swear by the 7.3 PS from ford.  The 6.0 had some issue and there was a law suit between ford and navstar about certain problems.  In the end, I think "brand loyalty" may play a part and personal preference over ride quality interior options.  Just remember that the inline 6 cylinder cummins (dodge) has a much lower red line than the V8 diesels that GM and ford use, which affects acceleration and drivability irreguardless of how the torque and HP numbers compare.  If your looking at an oil burner, you should do some searching to see if there were any "year specific" issue with any of the injector pumps or injectors, as these are high dollar repairs.  Look into issues with the trannies as well.  Manuals tend to be more reliable so long as they are driven within reason, but more of a pain to some people, again personal preference.  At your tow weight, the lower towin limit of a manual shouldn't be an issue. It's when you hit the 12-14K range where the auto has the upper hand.

You could always add some things to the truck to squeeze some extra power out of it, like air intake, less restrictive exhaust and even headers.  It's possible to easilly get 30+ rear wheel hp with aftermarket modifications.

I can't say a lot about the new tundra, except that when you compare the frame, brakes and rear axle, you're basically getting 3/4 ton sized equipment on a "1/2 ton" truck.  Their new engine makes some good power, but with it being a new model and import, they won't be as cheap as a domestic.

I can understand how "brand" loyalty/prejudice can play a role in people's decisions, as anyone can get a "bad" vehicle.  I've had a ford with the 5.4 triton and was not impressed with the engine, although I loved the interior of the ford's.  I peronally like the way the GM rides and they make good power with their vortec heads, but I think they are overpriced.  I currently have a Dodge 1500 and am overall please so far with the power the hemi makes, but the tranny has some shifting quarks, mostly related to the computer trying to maintain fuel efficiency and I will tell you that I bought the dodge mostly because it was the biggest engine for the cheapest price I could find, as the one I bought sat on the dealer lot for over a year and I got over $12k off.  If I would have had it my way, I would have bought the 06 duramax or 07 5.9 cummins ram, but the diesels were just out of my comfort price range.

Bite the bullet and get a 1-ton, preferably with a diesel.  There's a lot more to safe, comfortable towing than having enough engine.  Trust me!!.

porscheracer said:

Bite the bullet and get a 1-ton, preferably with a diesel.  There's a lot more to safe, comfortable towing than having enough engine.  Trust me!!.

Click to expand...

There is very little difference between the 3/4 and 1-ton tow ratings the Ford guide says add 200lbs for 1-ton all you really get is a higher gawr on the rear axle.
But your not going to find a 3/4 ton toyota anyways.

Look at Mike Rowes comparison of the 1/2 tonsFord trucks they damaged the frame of the Toyota  because it's not  a box frame I think the 09 dodge would have compared better too

I had a 2003 gmc sierra 2500HD with the 6.0 in it, my fiver weighs just under 8,000. It would do alright on the highway once you got it up to speed, but a grade of only 2-4% and it was in 2nd gear and running above 4,000 rpm. I have now got a 2008 Dodge 3500 dually with the 6.7 Cummins and will never pull anything with a gasser again. Bought me an old 84 chevy for the quick trips around the block or to the store.

Check to see if you can find a Dodge 2500 5.9 diesel with a tow pkg.  The tow capacity is around 13K and it gets decent mileage.  !5-17 mpg in the city and around 20 on the road...you can get better if you stay under 2500 rpms and flat roads.

The towing fuel economy would most likely be better with a diesel. I would recommend looking for a late '06 to '07 F-250 or F-350 (there is very little difference between the two with both being srw) with a 6.0l diesel. The earlier 6.0l had more than it's fair share of problems, but by late '06, most of them had been corrected.

If you're going to get a Ford, get one old enough (2003 or earlier) to have the 7.3L Powerstroke.  They STILL don't have the bugs worked out of the 6.0, and the PSD will pull circles around it.

There's a LOT more to towing than having the power to drag it down the road.  I wouldn't consider towing anything over 10K with anything less than a full 1-ton.  Frame, brakes, suspension, etc., all are part of the safety equation.

You cant go wrong with a 2002-06 Chevy Avalanche 2500.
The first couple years came in 2 or 4 wheel, the later 4-wheel drive only.
12000 towing capacity with 20000 GVWR.
The 8.1 will return between 10 & 14 MPGs depending how much fun you have.
Most shipped with leather & sunroofs, you can pick one up well under $15K.
Use it like a truck or a wagon depending on what you need.
Same year Suburban 2500's are also an option.
Cheap, laid out, & powerfull...

Note: 5th wheels need not apply (maybe a goosneck).