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Author Topic: Leveling jack won't retract fully  (Read 11364 times)

yfx4

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Leveling jack won't retract fully
« on: September 24, 2010, 10:44:45 AM »
First off, I'm glad I found this forum--I'm getting a ton of ideas just reading old threads!!

We have a 2005 WB Adventurer on a w24 chassis. The left front leveling jack will retract to about 1" from seated then stop. The other three do fine. I can use a pole and push it up so the alerts stop. Will "helper springs" be best or replace the OE ones thinking it may be bad?? I cleaned the piston shaft and saw no scratches or evidence of damage. fluid levels are OK.  Any ideas??

TIA!!!!
Scott

2005 Winnebago Adventurer
Only two motorcycles. >sad face<

Paul & Ann

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2010, 10:50:24 AM »
Do you have the new style tapered springs?  If not, that may be the answer.  I cant think of another reason the jack wont retract fully.  If you can manually push it up, then the solenoid is opening the valve.  Unless the jack is bent, springs are likely the problem.

Maybe others will have more suggestions.

Paul
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

yfx4

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2010, 11:02:32 AM »
Do you have the new style tapered springs?  If not, that may be the answer.  I cant think of another reason the jack wont retract fully.  If you can manually push it up, then the solenoid is opening the valve.  Unless the jack is bent, springs are likely the problem.

Maybe others will have more suggestions.

Paul

I'll look at the springs and see what style they are. Might as well take a photo too. Thank you for the idea!!!
Scott

2005 Winnebago Adventurer
Only two motorcycles. >sad face<

yfx4

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2010, 12:12:44 PM »
Oh, where is the best place to get the right springs??
Scott

2005 Winnebago Adventurer
Only two motorcycles. >sad face<

Paul & Ann

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2010, 12:33:46 PM »
Oh, where is the best place to get the right springs??

I believe they should be $21.46 each plus tax and shipping.

http://www.hwh.com

563-724-3396
800-321-3494

Paul
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

itchn2go

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2010, 05:39:15 AM »
Spray your cylinder liberaly on all sides with SILICONE while extended. Others will tell you many other things to use but I heard silicone 7 years ago and it still works for me today...Good Miles
Itchn2go, Seaford Va
05 Journey 350 Cat
Freightliner XC
04 Saturn Vue Toad

John Canfield

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2010, 09:47:29 AM »
There are diverse opinions about spraying the jack shafts. 

Paul Smith of HWH says to never spray the shafts with anything.  Some of the HWH techs will advise you spray them.  The Winnebago Itasca Travelers magazine usually contains a "tech tips" article written by the Winnie service management, the latest one discusses jack performance and maintenance.  They do advise you can spray the shaft with WD-40 and then wipe the shaft with a rag or whatever.  Their caveat is that if your retraction time is improved, it will be a temporary phenomena and will not be a fix that addresses the root cause of the problem.

If you have slow retraction, it will be due to the springs, the jack itself, maybe a solenoid, or blockage somewhere in the hydraulic line.
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
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rcalbuquerque

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2010, 11:34:36 AM »
I had this problem on my coach.
First check for lube fittings on your jacks and grease them all
then spray on some silicone spray and clean your jack posts to a nice shine. I clean my jacks before retracting if they sit more than a week or so and always after an extended stay.

yfx4

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 08:25:44 AM »
Spoke with HWH yesterday and they said that I should d/c the hydraulic hose while the jack is 'stuck' (the system is self-bleeding). She thinks the cylinder is the problem since it takes quite an effort to push the jack up--if the springs were bad it would go up with little effort. By d/c-ing the hose I will see if it is the cylinder (the jack will 'stay stuck') or the valve (the jack will pop up and I will get a little oil on me). A new cylinder is about $325 and seems fairly straightforward to change.
Scott

2005 Winnebago Adventurer
Only two motorcycles. >sad face<

Jeff

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 08:30:21 AM »
If you have PowerGear leveling jacks PowerGear says NOT to use WD40 on the cylinders because of its effects on the seals. They recommend using dry silicone to avoid creating a sticky surface that attracts dirt.

ceemike

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 09:16:34 AM »
Scott,

I had an almost identical problem with my 2004 Winnebago Brave.  The first dealer I took it to replaced both front solenoid valves which didn't solve the problem.  The second dealer replaced the return springs on both front jacks with the new style tapered springs.  That solved the problem.  I've attached the HWH service bulletin that addresses jack retraction times.  Read page 2 for a description of the new style springs.

Mike
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 03:40:34 PM by ceemike »
Mike & Judy Wagner
From the Keystone State
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2004 Honda CRV
2004 Honda Reflex

yfx4

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 11:42:12 AM »
Scott,

I had an almost identical problem with my 2004 Winnebago Brave.  The first dealer I took it to replaced both front solenoid valves which didn't solve the problem.  The second dealer replaced the return springs on both front jacks with the new style tapered springs.  That solved the problem.  I've attached the HWH service bulletin that addresses jack retraction times.  Read page 2 for a description of the new style jacks. 

Mike

Thank you!! It's great to get advice from folks with WAY more experience and knowledge than I.

The paragraph below caught my eye (emphasis added). I will probably get the new springs but am expecting a new cylinder.

If the jacks will retract completely but exceed the allowable retraction times, replacing the return springs will in most cases resolve the problem. In normal conditions above freezing, if a jack will retract with a little assistance, replacing the springs may resolve the problem. If a jack has to be forced up, as with a
pry bar, the cylinder will most likely have to be replaced.
If replacing the springs does not solve the problem, the cylinder must be replaced. NOTE: If the jack is equipped with the new style tapered springs, do not replace the springs, replace or repair the cylinder.


I'll check it like HWH said and go from there!!  8)
Scott

2005 Winnebago Adventurer
Only two motorcycles. >sad face<

John From Detroit

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2010, 03:42:50 PM »
What brand of jack do you have?

IF NOT POWER GEAR HYDRAULIC.. Then this may not apply.

With Power Gear Hydraulic.. If you do not read the manual, they can fail to retract.

The owner's manual tells how to lubricate the jacks.    And sure enough.. The minute I lubed mine in compliance with the manual.. UP THEY WENT.

Page 2: The forum (Here) suggested a better way for 2 of my jacks.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

yfx4

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2010, 04:41:02 PM »
the jacks are HWH. when I spoke to them the recommended procedure is wiping if they are dirty or after extended for a long time.
Scott

2005 Winnebago Adventurer
Only two motorcycles. >sad face<

VA6LM

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2014, 10:07:29 PM »
2007 Journey HWH jacks with tapered springs.
Rear pasenger side fails to retract all the way up.
When fully extended sprayed silicone on the silver tubes.
Noticed that one of the springs was rubbing on a nut making
pulling up hard. Lubed nut and spring with Jig a loo grease.
All retract all right now!!
Les M
2007 Winnebago Journey 34H
Edmonton Alberta Canada
Ham Radio VA6LM

Gary RV Roamer

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2014, 09:37:34 AM »
Some Power Gear jacks have a grease fitting (zerk) on the bottom as well. If yours does, give it a squirt with a grease gun once in a while.
Gary
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2004 American Tradition
2007 GMC Acadia
Homebase: Ocala National Forest, FL

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2014, 11:46:04 PM »
Try greasing and wiping down the shafts with silicone then cycle the jacks 6-10 times. I bet they retract better.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

Old Cajun

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2015, 01:42:27 PM »
WD 40 is not a lubricant, it is a water displacer

Paul & Ann

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2015, 02:46:25 PM »
The problem with slow retraction of hydraulic jacks is caused by the leading edge of the the jack seal drying out causing drag on the jack ram.  When I notice the jacks coming up slowly, I spray the seal with WD-40, and the jacks come right up.

Paul
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

Just Lou

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2015, 04:52:38 PM »
WD 40 is not a lubricant, it is a water displacer
Let the games begin. ;)

From the WD40 web site;
 A Question of Lubrication Myth: WD-40® Multi-Use Product is not really a lubricant.

Fact: While the “W-D” in WD-40® stands for Water Displacement, WD-40® Multi-Use Product is a unique, special blend of lubricants. The product’s formulation also contains anti-corrosion agents and ingredients for penetration, water displacement and soil removal.

'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX


Molaker

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2015, 06:21:41 PM »
Let the games begin. ;)

From the WD40 web site;
 A Question of Lubrication Myth: WD-40® Multi-Use Product is not really a lubricant.

Fact: While the “W-D” in WD-40® stands for Water Displacement, WD-40® Multi-Use Product is a unique, special blend of lubricants. The product’s formulation also contains anti-corrosion agents and ingredients for penetration, water displacement and soil removal.
Where's Seilerbird when you need him?
Tom & Joyce and Ditto the "don't tell her she's a dog" Westie
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Tin man

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2015, 06:48:31 PM »
Try duct tape, one thing you will never hear. "duct tape can't fix it".

I have 07 Journey SE (s#*!y edition) same problem lazy jack.  DRY SILICON does the trick. Wipe down each cylinder after spraying. 
Jim W
AKA TIN MAN
2007 36G Journey SE
2010 Escape Hybrid Blue Ox Air Force 1 Brake

Tom

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2015, 08:49:27 PM »
Quote from: Molake
Where's Seilerbird when you need him?

He hasn't been here in a long time, and I doubt he'll be back.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Kevin Means

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2015, 02:50:54 AM »
Thank you!! It's great to get advice from folks with WAY more experience and knowledge than I.

The paragraph below caught my eye (emphasis added). I will probably get the new springs but am expecting a new cylinder.

If the jacks will retract completely but exceed the allowable retraction times, replacing the return springs will in most cases resolve the problem. In normal conditions above freezing, if a jack will retract with a little assistance, replacing the springs may resolve the problem. If a jack has to be forced up, as with a
pry bar, the cylinder will most likely have to be replaced.
If replacing the springs does not solve the problem, the cylinder must be replaced. NOTE: If the jack is equipped with the new style tapered springs, do not replace the springs, replace or repair the cylinder.


I'll check it like HWH said and go from there!!  8)
I've had a variety of HWH products on different RVs and, overall, I've been pretty happy with them. However, HWH says the "Allowable retraction time" for my jacks is fifty (50) minutes! If the jacks retract within that time they're considered to be operating within specs. That's right out of my owners manual and right from the HWH guy I spoke with when I contacted them about a slow retracting jack. I'm sorry, but 50 minutes seems ridiculous. Ours have the newer tapered springs but it has not made any difference.

Here's what I've learned about the jacks and this all-too-common problem. We store our RV with the jacks partially extended so we can keep one of the slides open. Doing so, however, seems to cause the jack springs to develop a memory of sorts, and one jack in particular takes a long time to retract. As a test, I stored our RV for a few days with the jacks fully retracted, and then I extended them and then retracted them. Well guess what... they worked fine. The jack springs seem to lose some of their tension - their ability to retract - when they're left in an extended (stretched out) position for any length of time.

From what I've been able to read about HWH springs, they're not known for being made out of the highest quality metal. Several people have opined that zinc coated springs are much better suited for retaining their ability to retract over time. There's actually a post on this forum, that's several years old, about HWH springs (Sorry, I don't have the URL handy). In it, the OP goes into some detail about this issue - pictures and all.

In the end, I decided to not wait 50 minutes for my jacks to retract, and to not pay the $470.00 HWH quoted me for a new cylinder (labor not included). After all, it's simply spring tension that retracts the jacks. Instead, I put two inexpensive zinc coated "helper" springs on the outside of the problem-jack's existing springs, and I haven't had a problem since. FWIW

Kev
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 03:16:40 AM by Kevin Means »
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD towing an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, Solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

John From Detroit

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2015, 07:34:06 AM »
Let the games begin. ;)

From the WD40 web site;
 A Question of Lubrication Myth: WD-40® Multi-Use Product is not really a lubricant.

Fact: While the “W-D” in WD-40® stands for Water Displacement, WD-40® Multi-Use Product is a unique, special blend of lubricants. The product’s formulation also contains anti-corrosion agents and ingredients for penetration, water displacement and soil removal.

The reason WD-40 is not recommended as a lubricant is most lubricants stick around far better than WD-40.. IT works well when you apply it but quickly goes away.. Some other lubricants work well when you first apply them and months later.. Work even better. (Those are expensive). 

I would not use it as a general purpose lube but it sure cuts the crud well.  I just used it on a control shaft on a vintage piece of audio gear.. PRE-treatment I could not turn the switch with tools.. After  Just the plastic knob will do the job.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2015, 08:17:32 AM »
Kevin do you have a part number, location where you bought your "helper" springs?
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

yfx4

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2015, 09:06:52 AM »
What springs did you use?
Scott

2005 Winnebago Adventurer
Only two motorcycles. >sad face<

Kevin Means

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2015, 11:49:12 AM »
What springs did you use?
Sorry Bill and scott. I should have addressed that. They are extension springs that are manufactured by Ever Bilt and I got them at Home Depot in the hardware section. They sell various sizes but the dimensions of the springs I used are, 1 &1/8" X 16" X .105". They would have fit right off the shelf and for all I know, they would have worked fine, but I wanted them to pull a bit harder so I cut 20 coils off them (There are two springs - one on each side of the jack). I just kind of "eye-ball-gauged" their strength and cut them down a bit so they'd have more pulling power. I used a small set of bolt cutters to cut the coils while the springs were held in a vice and then I used two sets of vice grips to bend a new hook into the new end of the wire (I hope that makes sense).

To test them, I fully extended the jacks, left them for awhile, and then pushed the auto-store button. For the first time since I've had this motorhome, the slow-to-retract-jack retracted with all the other jacks and they continue to do so. Life is good!

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD towing an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, Solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

yfx4

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Re: Leveling jack won't retract fully
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2015, 11:52:02 AM »
Awesome thank you!
Scott

2005 Winnebago Adventurer
Only two motorcycles. >sad face<