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Author Topic: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??  (Read 19333 times)

kjmcafee08

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HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« on: February 19, 2012, 09:50:17 AM »
I have found myself in a stressful situation with our 2011 Tiffin Allegro 35 QBA. I bought it new 6 months ago from Lazy Days and from the moment I drove it off the lot and made the first left hand turn I knew it had a problem. When we got on the highway with my wife following she immediately called and told me the coach was leaning badly to the right. I called the salesman with the intention of turning it around and taking it back, but was assured it would be corrected and encouraged to continue home. Here I am 6 months and 9,000 miles later and we still have the problem. Here is long and short of what I have been through. After hours of phone calls within the first 2 weeks with Lazy Days service department, Tiffin reps, Ford (coach has the Ford 22K lb chassis), and Palm Beach Spring (Local chassis shop I use and trust), we came to the conclusion the springs on the right hand side needed attention. Tiffin finally admitted after much prying that they had seen the problem with other 35 QBAs and the solution was to shim the springs on the right side of the coach. I was not satisfied with that solution for a brand new product. I took it to Palm Beach spring and they put the coach on their chassis machine. It was 1.5 inches out of level from the axle to the frame between the right and left. Turns out Tiffin has too much weight on the right side of the coach for the springs to carry level. Palm Beach spring pulled the rear springs, re-arched them and added a leaf to carry the weight better. The fix worked well for about 3 months and the lean began to present again. I took it back to Palm Beach Spring and they re-arched the springs again. This time it held for about a month before the leaning. 2 weeks ago I went back out to the chassis shop and now they are telling me the right front AND the rear are out of shape. At that time the rep for the shop told me that he is sure that they can get the coach level but he cannot guarantee that it will stay that way with the weight distribution on the right side of the coach. His recommendation, if I want to continue to experiment, is to add more springs to the front and re-arch those along with the back again. My concern is that the coach is not only going to require another step to get in and out of (extra leaf on the rear already has it sitting higher), but that it will ride so stiff big bumps will tear the coach up and jar everyone around.
As of now I am working with Lazy Days on the possibility of having them take this coach back and get us into a RED (same floor plan-freightliner chassis). How should I approach the deal? What should I expect to pay in difference for the diesel? I am really happy with the Tiffin product. Everything they attached to this chassis has been great. I am just scared to stay in this coach because I am very certain it can not be fixed to my satisfaction. Thanks For the advice! Kyle McAfee     

Marsha/CA

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 10:56:06 AM »
Have you had any contact with Tiffin directly, or just through Lazy Days?  Perhaps a call or a certified letter to Bob Tiffin outlining what has happened would help to get the issue resolved.  The fact that it has been modified may become an issue.

You can also get on the Tiffin owners website to see if others are experiencing the same problem.  That website is not run by Tiffin, but by owners so you get good feedback.  The website is:  http://www.tiffinrvnetwork.com

Marsha~
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kjmcafee08

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 11:54:57 AM »
I have spoken to almost the entire staff at Tiffin at some point on this issue. All of the modifications that have been made have been approved and reimbursed by Tiffin. I just dont know how to approach the issue of the coach swap. The Tiffin rep at Lazy Days, Mr. Bush, made the initial suggestion that I look into swapping out for a RED. I dont know what sort of price difference I should expect from the 35QBA Allegro to the 38QBA RED. I know I will need to come to the table with some money but I dont know the difference to expect/present? I was really hopeful that someone else had encountered this issue and seen it through to a reasonable resolve. Thanks for the help, Kyle

bertnspike

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 12:10:45 PM »
Different coach, similar problem, not sure that I would put up with it on a new Tiffin.....

I have a 2005 Gulf Stream Independence MH that has a noticeable lean to the driver's side.  When I researched it I found that Gulf Stream used marginal springs for the weight of the slides in that year.  The fix that was recommended was spacers between the springs and the chassis.  Going to Lazydays on March 5 to have that done and expect it to cost around 1K.

Again, if this was a NEW coach, I don't know that I would accept it, but please be reassured that you are not alone with this problem, it IS fixable, and it's not generally something to be frightened of.

Susan
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Rugtudju

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2012, 03:16:49 PM »
I would get rid of this coach at ANY cost.
There seems to be no long lasting solution. Try to get the best deal as possible.
Good luck

tallyo

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2012, 03:40:55 PM »
I suppose any reasonable persons would figure the price difference and pay that? Of  course I am assuming the RED is more expensive. I might call Mr Tiffin ,if not already done, to see what he suggests.

jc2

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 04:40:34 PM »
I would get rid of this coach at ANY cost.
There seems to be no long lasting solution. Try to get the best deal as possible.
Good luck

I agree.  I can see where this could easily become a PITA in the long run. :(

kjmcafee08

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 07:48:38 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback. I am anxious to hear what the response will be from Lazy Days and Tiffin. They are supposed to be back in touch with me tomorrow. I think I am going to push for some help getting out of this coach and into a RED. I am figuring I am going to need to bring another 60-70K to put on top of this coach. Not looking forward to that part but hopefully I will be able to sleep easier. Thanks, Kyle

Art In Mobile

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 09:30:30 AM »
Would the helper air bags work for you? Mine is not leaning but if it did I would try that first. Art
Art in Mobile 2006 Voyage V-10 Ford

Rugtudju

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2012, 10:21:53 AM »
What one should do when they get a MH is check, after all loaded, what is the weight distribution on all and each wheel.
Most of the time , it wont affect any thing but once in a sharp curve, or unusual road circumstances.... will have some unfortunate effects..........
you can find a cure but this is not the solution, Your MH as a weight distribution problem. With time, it can only worsen certainly not improve..
It it like a bent axle. You can rectified it but sooner it will come to same as before. The answer is to change it for one with bigger weight limit.
Why do you think that they offer you to "upgrade" it?
Good luck. My security is priceless.

jje1960

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2012, 10:31:52 AM »
Think your initial inclination was correct...."I called the salesman with the intention of turning it around and taking it back, but was assured it would be corrected and encouraged to continue home." Hate hearing stories about new products and defects to this extent.  Good luck to you, hopefully you get this worked out to your satisfaction soonest.
Jim
2011 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel
2011 Cougar SRX

Gordon Groff

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 06:29:59 AM »
I'm really sorry to hear about this issue, being a Tiffin fan and owner of a 2010 35QBA myself.  I have to wonder what's up with this?  I have not experienced this issue, but I never measured between axle and frame.  I do not notice a lean.  It's a very popular model, so it's hard to believe it's a design flaw or there would be hundreds of unhappy owners.  Is there a chance that faulty/wrong springs were installed at the factory?  Let us know if you find out anything definative.

Gordon
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2010 Tiffin Allegro 35 QBA
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 08:04:00 AM »
Under the circumstances I would not expect to pay more than the wholesale price difference between the two coaches. Figuring out what that is will likely be difficult, though. Maybe 2/3 of the difference in MSRP?  You can find all the 2012 Tiffin MSRP pricing here:
http://www.rvcruzer.com/pricing.php

If it's just a matter of weight imbalance, I'm amazed that a competent spring shop cannot rectify it. Heftier springs, or an air spring assist would seem to be needed for the extra weight. 1.5" isn't all that much to correct.  Nor would I expect the ride to change by getting it back to level. Might even improve a tiny bit if the present spring is overloaded and the new, heftier one, is not.
Gary
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lone_star_dsl

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 08:46:39 AM »
If you really want to return the RV, you should check with a lawyer and your states Attorney General about the Lemon Laws.  If a manufacturer cannot fix a defect on a vehicle within a certain time period, you are entitled to a full refund.

On the other hand, if you really wanted to keep it, you should look into a full air ride system.  My recommendation for your situation in http://kelderman.com/old/, they are known for building some of the best full air suspensions on the market.
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kjmcafee08

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 04:48:27 PM »
It has been 2 days and I have not been contacted by either Tiffin or Lazydays as promised. I am very disappointed to say the least. My salesman keeps telling me that they are working between themselves on a solution. I am doubtful. As for other 35QBAs having the same problem, Yes, I have seen 3 in person and I have spoken on the phone with another very unhappy owner. I think that most if not all of this model are having the same issue. How could they not be? I think that most folks don't use their coach as often as we do. We are in the coach every single weekend either at our ranch or racing motocross. All of the units I have seen with the lean have been 2011 or 2012. Maybe something changed? My fingers are crossed I will get a call soon. Thanks, Kyle     

Rugtudju

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 06:56:42 PM »
Have you ever had a chance to check the weight on each wheel?

ragincajun

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2012, 02:58:21 PM »
Have you had any success on a fix.  I just purchased a 2012 35QBA and have a similar situation.  I didn't see these problems before I bought it.  Tiffin wants to send a shim to fix it. 

kjmcafee08

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2012, 02:09:22 PM »
Ragincajun, I am very sorry to report that I have given up in my effort to fix the problem with our Tiffin. We just traded it in on a 2012 Berkshire pusher. The problem I had and you will have is that the coach is borderline with the weight rating on the chassis, and Tiffin put too much weight on the passenger side. We did weigh the coach on a chassis machine and thats what finally convinced me to consider a trade.

Here is what has transpired for me. I was initially approached by the Tiffin rep with the suggestion that the repeated attempts to fix the problem would not be a long term solution. It was recommended that we get into a RED. I met with some folks from Tiffin at LazyDays in Tampa to talk numbers. Lets just say that did not go well. LazyDays said they wanted my 6 month old, had a major chassis problem from day 1 coach back, plus $117,000.00 to get us into a RED. Then Tiffin graciously stepped up with $3,500.00 of "hush money" to sweeten the pot. Needless to say I was not impressed. After I refused the deal Tiffin continued to assure me that my coach was the only one with this problem and they wanted me to take it back to Alabama for repair at ABC bus company. As the wife and I mulled our options and consulted with attorneys Tiffin came back with $2,500.00 more and had found a RED for less money in Mississippi. But I was still looking at a full retail deal. I was not going to take a $40,000.00 depretiation and then buy another Tiffin product for retail money. Tiffin told me that was the best they could do to help us so my salesman at LazyDays went to work finding another coach. He worked us a killer deal for the Berkshire and we dumped the Tiffin. Unfourtanately, after I was assured that our old coach would not be resold until the problem was resolved I just saw it listed on LazyDays website. I am very concerned that the new buyer might crash the coach because of the unpredictable sway and pull at highway speed being caused by the spring problems. It got so bad that I would not allow my wife or kids to ride with me if we were going to be on the highway.

I wish I had a better outcome with my experience for other folks who own this model Tiffin. After what we have been through I have learned a lot. Unfourtanately it has been a very frustrating and expensive education.     

Ken & Sheila

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2012, 09:30:54 PM »
I think Tiffin's response was very poor. Very disappointing when a supposedly quality company walks from a mistake. 

ken
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Tom

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2012, 09:43:03 PM »
An unusual apparent black eye for Tiffin.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2012, 07:45:04 AM »
$3500 is chicken-feed for a factory assisted swap deal, so obviously Tiffin feels the shim approach to a solution is entirely reasonable. kjmcafee08 clearly disagrees. And once a customer's demand gets to the lawyers instead of the marketing and production people, good things rarely result.

I'm not taking sides - just making an observation.
Gary
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tallyo

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2012, 10:57:54 AM »
Of course the great unknown is how much a manufacturer makes once they sell the unit to the dealer. The offered 3500 plus an additional 2500 .
Not defending either side but as always there are 2 sides to every story.. and  this is just one of the millions in the Naked City!
Anyone remember that TV series?

Tom

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2012, 12:56:19 PM »
I'm not taking sides either, and we clearly haven't heard both sides of the story. We've heard so many positive stories about Tiffin products and their customer support over the years, so this report was quite unusual.
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ragincajun

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2012, 02:58:43 PM »
Well by coach as been at the shop going on 2 1/2 weeks.  Tiffin/North trail originally wanted to shim the one side. I called Tiffin and spoke to one of the sons.  They agreed to adding and replacing the springs at a local spring/chassis ship.   I hope to have it back tomorrow.  For those keeping score at home.  Purchased a 2012 Tiffin 35qba and took it for a weekend shake down cruise about 3 hours away.  Brought it back to get some minor things fixed.  I noticed it wasn't sitting level while I was waiting for the service advisor and asked him to check it out. The one slide wouldn't go in the hole way.  Was told that it kinked a propane line.  I have "owned" the coach for 3 weeks tomorrow, I have had it for 3 days out of that.  I wonder if Northtrail/Tiffin is making the first payment. 
I bought Tiffin based on the great reviews,  I hope things work out because I love the layout.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2012, 03:11:28 PM »
Tiffin isn't immune to screw-ups, but their customer service is perhaps the best in the industry. 
Gary
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tallyo

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2012, 07:07:18 AM »
I think I would be on my way to Red Bay.. ( there's another song title?) Park it in front of service and ask Mr Tiffin , politely of course, if he thinks the MH is acceptable?. Then I would make my decision based on his response.

Singing "On my way to Red Bay"     ***To the tune of "On My Way to San Jose"***

Wagonmaster2

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2012, 09:51:18 PM »
I'm starting to consider a new replacement in the near future for my 2004 Winnebago and had a Tiffin on my short list but after reading this "black eye from Tiffin" my list just got somewhat shorter.

Seems such a shame too, when a good frame/axle/spring shop should have been able to match the correct suspension for the weight to be carried by this coach and corrected the problem once and for all, and probably wouldn't have cost Tiffin the $6,000 they were going to pay toward a trade ($3,500+$2,500).  Just to re-arch the springs was definitely a band-aid approach.

Hopefully the rest of the unfortunate Tiffin owns will fare better than this owner.

Wagonmaster2
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2012, 07:48:22 AM »
If you discard every brand that has had a black eye over one issue or another, you won't be buying an RV.  At any given time, some manufacturer will be having issues with at least one model or floor plan. Over a a few years, most of them will have had at least one.

But I have to agree. Tiffin has had a couple of black eyes lately, no doubt due to the greatly increased pace of production as many enhanced models were introduced and their popularity soared over the past 4 years. This is the first time I have heard of an issue they were not moving heaven & earth to get fixed and fixed right, though.
Gary
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Tom

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2012, 09:30:44 AM »
I have to agree with Gary; We've heard/read horror stories about most (all?) manufacturers, and I too wouldn't rule out Tiffin for my next purchase based on any single report.
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kjmcafee08

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Re: HELP! 2011 Tiffin 35QBA Leaning??
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2012, 03:25:31 PM »
Here is an interesting update to the saga. I just got off the phone with the sales manager at LazyDays who handled the deal when we traded out of our Tiffin last weekend. He told me that there is a possibility LazyDays might have to undo the deal they made with us on our new Berkshire because the problem with the 35QBA is more severe than they realized. Apparently they are going to involve their legal department in the issue because Tiffin had assured them that I was just a whiny customer and the problems we were having with the chassis were not a legitimate cause for concern. Hearing this left me at a loss for words. I guess they thought I spent the last 8 months taking this brand new coach in and out of the shop an attempt at gaining attention??
The positive side is that LazyDays is aware of the severity of the problem and I am hopeful that the coach will not be sold to an unsuspecting buyer as they were preparing to do last week. I am also very certain that I will not be allowing the deal to be undone with our new coach. I also want to add in response to some of the other posts that my experiences with the Tiffin customer service and other employees was always pleasant. I do agree that Tiffin has great people working for them and they did not give up on their efforts to fix the problem. I gave up on trying to fix it after 8 months of sleepless nights and white knuckled driving.   

 

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