Minimum 4-wheeling equipment

[Tom]

If I were to buy a 4WD for off-roading/4-wheeling, what would be the minimum equipment or trick-outs that would be required? Wheel/tire size/style, front/rear winch, spare gas cans, etc.

[taoshum]

IMHO, Depends on where you wanna go... and driver skills... 

We spent a year with a stock Wrangler and then caught a mild case of mod-itis.  We traded our AT tires for MT tires; installed a  3" suspension lift with better shocks, got a CB and we put a winch on the front.  After the second year, I really appreciate the lift kit and shocks except that it's harder to get into the vehicle; the CB works fine; the tires are more rugged; but we have never, once, used the winch... actually I'm glad that I haven't used the winch...  I don't have any further mod-itis symptoms.  BTW the lift kit forced me to raise the receiver hitch on the RV to keep the tow bar sorta level.

We have learned a lot in a couple of years, the vehicles are amazing but we have not attempted to go on the more difficult (Class 3.5+) "trails".  Don't really feel the need to do that yet...  Maybe someday, maybe not.  In hindsight, I'm fairly sure a stock Jeep could go everywhere we have been... especially with a more experienced driver.

You'll get lots of opinions on this one, I suspect.

[gwcowgill]

Even though I am not really into 4 wheeling, I have had my stock Liberty into pretty bad places in WV on my cousins property and it performed great. Yes, there are some mods that could be done but I drive it everyday at home and at my age, I don't want to raise it but...........

[RoyM]

X2 One of my most important tools was a buddy in a second 4 wheeler In my early days when youth and enthusiasm were rampant I nearly got into serious trouble a couple of times venturing alone. Later when fear and common sense took over I always went out with a shovel, axe,  jackall aka sheep herders jack (got me out of trouble a couple of times), tire chains and a tow strap.  Carry an adequate first aid kit and know how to use it. Extra gas is a very good idea, it gets used rather quickly in low range. Don't forget, food, water, blankets and water proof matches. A breakdown can mean a longer than expected stay. Leave a travel itinerary and stick to it, you will be a lot easier to find if things go wrong.

[SeilerBird]

You need a real old bright yellow Volkswagen and a team of engineers.

[John Canfield]

The reason why we bought the Rubicon was because we reached the limit of what the Liberty could do.  There were a couple of trails in the San Juans that we couldn't make with open differentials (ant and that really annoyed me!)

A nice wheeling rig would be a short wheelbase Rubicon (JK or TJ), or like we have the longer wheelbase LJ, 32" tires, winch on the front.  You want a Rubicon because you can lock the front and rear differentials.

[Ernie n Tara]

Tom,

I'll second taoshum's suggestion's since that is almost exactly what we did when we bought the 2012 Rubicon and we've been very satisfied with it. I would be sure to include a tow strap and the usual safety equipment. The lift may not be absolutely required for a new Rubicon (I recommend a 2.5" TeraFlex if you do get one), but is necessary for a TJ (1999-2006).

Most of the other equipment (lockers, 32" MT tires, sway bar disconnect, etc.) are designed into the new Rubicons and need to be added to the earlier TJ's. It may actually be less expensive to buy new and the new Jeep is very comfortable to drive both on and off road (I think this is an important feature). I'd recommend an automatic in any case, but particularly for the 2012 Rubicons. It's a great transmission and the trans/engine combination is probably the best ever available in a stock Jeep.

And the frosting is that less than $40K bought everything I've suggested.

Hope this helps,

Ernie

[JPete]

What are the thoughts on the Wrangler with four doors? Is the wheelbase too long or woukd it be OK? I like the idea of seating for four.

Thanks.
Pete

[Tom]

Thanks for the responses so far. I'm following along and learning, so please keep them coming.

[SargeW]

The 4 door Wrangler is fine to wheel. I have wheeled it all over the country included Moab. My Rubicon is a 4 door and has only some leveling coils in the front to offset the weight of the winch and tow plate. It has wheeled great, and it is all a matter of perspective.  For instance another member of the board, DegoRed just posted that he has a Jeep that he bought for $24K and put another $36K into tricking it out. With his 39" tires and full length suspension he can still high side himself if the rock is big enough.

So the answer is that yes, nearly any 4 wheeler will take you off road and perform well if your expectations are reasonable. 

My idea of a minimum capable wheeler has lockers on at least one axle, two axles are better. A good set of Dana diffs, and some good quality rubber. The rubi has an electronic sway bar disconnect which I really like.  Two door or four door is your preference. I like a winch, even though I have not had to winch myself out, yet. 

[John Canfield]

What are the thoughts on the Wrangler with four doors? Is the wheelbase too long or woukd it be OK? I like the idea of seating for four.

The 4-door will do good with 35" tires and 5.13 gears and at least a locker in the rear, ideally a locker in the front as well, or most ideally a Rubicon model.  A stock or nearly stock 4-door will struggle with some obstacles on moderate to moderate-hard  trails - we have wheeled with a bunch of 4-doors on many different trails and this is my observation.  The lifted 4-doors on 35s are very capable but have trouble where a very tight turn is required.  The long wheelbase is great on a steep climb, but an issue on breakovers.

For this guy, the perfect wheelbase length and model year is the 2005/6 Rubicon Unlimited, but my primary focus was off-road ability - I didn't care about it being a good daily driver or seating four people.  A very popular mod is to stretch the wheelbase of a TJ to about what ours is - I bought ours already stretched  .

[Larry N.]

If I were to buy a 4WD for off-roading/4-wheeling, what would be the minimum equipment or trick-outs that would be required? Wheel/tire size/style, front/rear winch, spare gas cans, etc.

After reading the responses you got from various enthusiasts, Tom, I see there's a range of things, all adding to the stock Jeep. Another possibility is to get a stock Jeep, use it on some mild 4-wheeling, such as we get on rally rides at QZ and Moab. After trying two or three of them, you'll have a better idea of what you may want to do. After all, these mods they are describing can always be done later, if needed.

[Tom]

Thanks Larry. We certainly had some interesting resonses.

[Water Dog]

If I were to buy a 4WD for off-roading/4-wheeling, what would be the minimum equipment or trick-outs that would be required? Wheel/tire size/style, front/rear winch, spare gas cans, etc.

You know what Jeep stands for don't you, Tom? .......Just Empty Every Pocket...!

[Tom]

LOL Dennis, that's like the other one we both know:  Boat = Break Out Another Thousand 

[Water Dog]

LOL Dennis, that's like the other one we both know:  Boat = Break Out Another Thousand 

That's right.....I've just got an aluminum fishing boat now, but I remember when all the kids were home and the family was in to water skiing etc. ....and that couldn't be more true.

[SargeW]

Yep, and I went to the Hundred Dollar store up here in Alaska. (Harley Davidson) 

[Ernie n Tara]

Tom,

One thought to keep in mind is that any Wrangler will likely return more of your initial investment when you sell it than almost any other vehicle. Even late 90's Jeeps that probably sold for $5K or less new sell for high four figures today in good condition.

Ernie

[BigLarry]

It all depends on how serious you want to get, and where you want to go.  Any 4WD with a two speed transfer case, a locking differential on the rear and good set of BFG All terrain TA's or MT's will get you over 80% of the trails.  We take the back roads to see the country and not as a 4WD challenge.  Over the past 40 years, I've had Jeep CJ-5's and FJ-40 land cruisers, with several tricked out for their day.  I got over the challenge part.  As time went on, I found that with some driver skill and taking my time, I could drive a 4WD truck on 80% of the trails, see almost as much country and enjoyed it every bit as much. 

[For Wheelin]

all good input so far.  First, find some off road forums...just like this outstanding RV forum there are off road forums that are a great resource.  http://www.jeepforum.com/ is just one.  I also use a few in my home area.

A couple of things I did not see mentioned:

On board air: Either a sturdy pump (Viair) or a Co2 or nitrogen tank.  I have an on board air and tank on my motorhome for airing up for the drive home (and running a Wolo Giant air horn) and a Co2 tank on the jeep to air up when leaving a trail and on to another via pavement.  Also very important to have air on board to fix a flat.  If you have not learned yet, you want to run low air off road for a more comfortable ride and better traction.  Typically you can refill (4) 33" tires from 8 lbs to 30 lbs at least 3 times, and a 10 gallon of C02 (refill) shouldn't cost more than $15-$20. 

In an effort to conserve Co2, I will drive short distances on pavement with low air from one trial area to another, but not more than about 50 mph, and not more than about 20 miles.   This of course depends on your vehicle, and your comfort level. 

Skid Plates.  You want to protect the tranny, oil pan, steering box, and fuel tank.  There are alot of options for undercarriage protection.  Get as much as you can.  Even if you dont anticipate crawling in the rocks, some easy trails will have rocks to maneuver through.

Heavy duty steering:  Currie offers a heavy duty steering assembly that is a must.  Strengthens the front end and with a good stabilizer, death wobbles are non existant. 

You also want a high lift jack (including the accessory kit) if your going to lift the jeep.  It will not only help with flat tires (you will flatten a tire when wheelin), but also other repairs, or use as a come-along...

Tools and spare parts:  if you are serious off roading, or are exploring many miles from help, carry tools for a variety of repairs.  As for spare parts, a few things come to mind like a starter if yours is an auto trans, serpentine belt, spare stock axles (one front, one rear), u-joints, anti freeze and oil...and alot of drinking water and snacks!  If your wheelin with a group and not extreme, no need for all the extra weight, but trust me...when you break down 100 miles from the nearest paved road, simple things like these are life savers.

Budget your mods wisely.  I would love to have an after market anti-sway bar, but honestly most of them are simply an easier way to disconnect.  I have quick disconnects on a stock sway bar and get along just fine.

Bottom line is as Tom mentions Just Empty Every Pocket couldn't be more true!  It's all about what you want to do, and how much money are you willing to spend to do it!

MOST OF ALL!  Have fun and be carefull! 

[Jim Dick]

Tom,

Both our stock Geo Trackers and Suzuki Grand Vitaras got us to many places that a car might not go.

As you know, we were not into "extreme" off roading but we did do some trails in Moab that Jeeps seemed to hesitate a little. I think driver awareness has a lot to do with the success of making, or not making, a trail. I'm far from an expert but had a lot of fun in the past. Those times are probably over except for riding with someone.

One year Terry B. and I did a trip up the Calcite Mine trail in Anza Borrego. We both had Grand Vitaras at the time. It was a little rough but we made it successfully. When Terry checked in with a Ranger about another trail he was told the Calcite Mine trail was not driveable!! 

Unless you want to do the really hard stuff, there are many vehicles available the do not require mortgaging the farm to obtain. I sure would love a fully equipped Rubicon but it's just not practical for us at this time in our life.

[Tom]

Thanks for all the replies. Understand the desire  &/or need to lower tire pressures, but doesn't that cause premature failure?

[Tom]

Jim, your GV was a great vehicle.

[Barb]

I don't want to, and do not do really hard stuff, or extreme off roading. But one of the problems in today's world, is you can't do what you use to do. (usta). Areas are being closed across the country for revegatation and making them wilderness areas.

In some places, where you drove a nice scenic road to go for a hike, now requires a high clearance4 wheel drive suv.

So I would have to say the Minimum 4-wheeling equipment would be a high clearence suv, and a good understanding of how the trail rating system works.

[taoshum]

Thanks for all the replies. Understand the desire  &/or need to lower tire pressures, but doesn't that cause premature failure?

Interesting question... my initial thought, upon reading your question, is that the "off-road" tires are designed for "tough" duty and running at lower pressure is kinda "in the noise" compared to the terrain and road surfaces encountered.  Driving on under-inflated tires on the hiway is known to cause overheating and damage... off-road the speed is usually less than 15-20 mph, often 5 mph, so heating is not an issue; the sidewall flex might be an issue over time but driving over big, sometimes sharp, rocks the lower pressure spreads the load across more tread so maybe less damage is possible.  Obviously I don't really know for sure one way or the other.  The other aspect to your Q is the "premature" part.  I doubt anyone really expects to get a full life... 30,000 miles?... from these tires.  I'd guess that traction starts to decline after the tread reaches even half of the original tread depth and the chances of a puncture go up so folks probably replace the tires for those reasons instead of mileage.  The MT type tires don't even offer a mileage "warranty".  The "AT" tires offer a warranty but I would never try to reach it.

Actually, in my case, I have two sets of tires... one for driving off-road and one for paved roads.  It takes about 10-15 minutes to change from one to the other.  If we are going on an "off-road" event, put those tires on; after we get home again, put the "street" tires on...   BTW, I "air-up" to 40psi for towing. 

[John Canfield]

Thanks for all the replies. Understand the desire  &/or need to lower tire pressures, but doesn't that cause premature failure?

I think a non-issue with tires designed for the 4x4 off-road crowd.  The sidewalls on our Goodyear MT/Rs have a Kevlar layer and tire engineers know that the off-road bunch always airs down. We like to run anywhere from 9 to 12 psi in our 35" tires - makes for a great ride and the tread wraps around rocks and is less likely to get punctured.

Tire failure for us means we have chewed up the sidewalls and torn off the outer tread lugs  .

In some places, where you drove a nice scenic road to go for a hike, now requires a high clearance4 wheel drive suv.

And trails change with every rainstorm, season, and traffic - what might have been an easy trail for any 4x4 last month might be much harder today.

We started out running trails in our Jeep Liberty and liked it so much we went all out with Rubi. I suppose it's a guy thing, but I love the challenge of overcoming a difficult obstacle.

[krw]

I had a 90 YJ that I wheeled on up to 9 level trails.  Locked front and rear with 4.10 gears and a teralow 4:1 case.  Roll cage, full skid plates (engine, transfer case and gas tank) on board air, on board welder, tools and spares, and an HS9500i winch, hand throttle and more.  It ran on 35s sprung over with 2.5" packs.  I had 24" of clearance under the belly pan.  All that said, the best advice so far is to build for where you want to go.  The bigger you get, the more sacrifices you make.  It got to the point that I was breaking something every time out and was very expensive. 

My advice is to get aggressive tires, lockers front and rear, a proper lift, and proper gearing (LOW).  A winch and a way to air up are also a good add ons.  Long wheelbase versus short wheelbase are better depending on where you are in the trail.  Don't run alone, or you may find yourself in a bad way if you get in over your head. 

[hes4all]

There is know tires that has sidewalls that won't tear or slice (we all know that). I believe that the MTR's have the best sidewall, but I have also seen the sidewall slice on a MTR in New Mexico that we had to use 7 plugs to get it to hold 6lbs of air. The best thing for tires is a driver that pays attention.

[For Wheelin]

Agreed, kevlar tires are superior...cost could be an issue.  I would love to budget these some day for my Jeep.  The military uses them on Hum-vees for good reason!  I have had great luck with my BFG's though, and I work them pretty hard.

I have replaced tires with 20K+ miles of tread left, but with destroyed side walls.  If you play in the rocks, you will tear or damage the sidewalls.  Kevlar tires again offer better resistance to that kind of abuse. 

4-wheelin as a hobby is a costly one.  4-wheelin while touring the country and sticking to fire roads, you can have an awsome time seeing areas you otherwise could not without spending $30K.  Keeping it simple is still enjoyable but do take along enough tools for minor repairs.  A GPS suited for off road can also be a life saver.  Not the same type as in your every day driver, but one with a USGS topo map.  You may think your lost, but there may be another dirt road right out of site that could lead you to help.  Your average on road gps sont see these roads.

[John Canfield]

I have replaced tires with 20K+ miles of tread left, but with destroyed side walls.  If you play in the rocks, you will tear or damage the sidewalls. ...

That's a fact.  I ripped up a couple of the sidewalls on my last set of MT/R Kevlars (33") playing in the rocks, but the tires still hold air.  Replaced them because I wanted 35-inchers and beadlock wheels.