All4Fun Experience

[Ernie n Tara]

Hi,

We've just attended the 2012 All4Fun rally in Empire Colorado. We had a good time and I thought it might be interesting to compare with the FMCA 4 by 4 Rally we attended in Moab this spring.

Consider that we are relative newby's with a new 2012 Rubicon and a total of four rallies (two were basically trail rides) attended over the past two years.

Rally Style - Defined as how its run and the amenities vs. cost

FMCA - Basic rally ($50 per rig - you pay the park) orientated toward trails, but with several fun get together's, comparable prizes and fewer, but similar meals. This is more of an adult experience (nearly all attendees are members) in that music is more C&W and the meetings are more talk (war stories). We felt more comfortable (and welcome) here.

A4F - Much more activity orientated ($325 per rig - boondocking); something happening every night and FREE BEER (kinda - remember that $325). It is much more youth orientated; movies (including pirate), Junk Style Karaoke (not knocking; just not our thing), Pop Music (band and Dance) Friday night. Prizes for everyone Thursday night. No apparent effort to welcome newbies; no name tags, etc. They do have a lot of children's activities Wednesday (the kinda off day).

Runs - All ratings are 1 to 10 with 10 more difficult (impossible?)

FMCA - Overall slightly more difficult (by rating) is our impression. The difficulty was more accurately defined (probably because its Moab) We ran relatively easy stuff here like Fins and Things (4) and Poison Spider (5 or 6?) and bought a 2-1/5 inch lift after Spider. Groups were small and well led. Frankly Moab is unique and we like it better!

A4F - As noted we found the trails easier relative to rating (this may have something to do with the lift and more experience). We ran Kingston Peak (rated 5, probably 3 at Moab) was a fun run with nice views. Cascade Creek/Saxton Mountain was rated 6 and probably a 3/4. On the other hand; Red Elephant Hill/Mill Creek was a true 6 and provided quite a challenge for some (this one is in the woods). Finally, we ran Argentine Pass/McClennen Mtn. and found it an easy 6. Leaders were competent, but seemed to be less well trained/experienced.

Overall we preferred Moab over Empire, but the Jeeping was great both places and we wouldn't hesitate to recommend either (and we do plan to attend both next year). If you have children, the edge may go to A4F since they do provide a lot of children's activities. The same may apply for activities if that's your interest.

These are just our impressions, and we'd be interested in hearing those of others who may have different perspectives.

Ernie

[John Canfield]

Interesting evaluation Ernie, thanks for the review.

We did the A4F last year (Salida), did two Chili Challenges (Las Cruces), four Jeep Jamborees (Palo Duro & Texas Spur), ran trails in Moab with some of the Rubicon Owner's Forum guys and have been on a bunch of rides with our club in Montrose.  We will be doing our first FMCA gig at Thanksgiving.

Trail ratings are a tricky thing.  Assigning one number doesn't help very much - some trails are fairly easy with maybe one or two hard obstacles (some with/without bypasses.)  Some trails are a challenge for an experienced driver and well built rig for almost the entire length.  The other aspect is an easy trail for me might be difficult for an inexperienced driver and/or driving a stock or mostly stock vehicle.  As my experience level increases (and Rubi gets built up), trails get easier and easier - I'm not bragging, it's just an observation.

Now the guys with buggies (or truggies) on 40+" tires - they have to keep looking for harder and harder trails to run in order to have a challenge.

I agree with your A4F assessment - it's a young crowd with a lot of energy and involved in activities we're not interested in any longer.  A trail that is fun AND one that has a good trail leader (and not too many vehicles) makes for a great day.  We've had some excellent trail leaders and then we've had a few duds (I'm talking about the Chili Challenge and the A4F), on the other hand we've had very good trail leaders across the board at the Jamborees and with our club in Montrose.

Speaking of the Jamborees, that's a younger crowd like the A4F - sometimes I feel like I'm the Ancient Mariner  .

At the A4F last year, there was only one trail that I really liked - Chinaman Gulch.  Have a look at the trail rating system Trail Damage uses - they give a low end and a high end rating with several other attributes.  Chinaman Gulch was a challenge and we did every optional obstacle.  The other trails were mostly sight-seeing trips (which is okay, we like easy trails also.)

Moab - something for everybody, mild to wild and everything in-between (with amazing scenery.)  I think we'll head there after we leave the Montrose area after Labor Day.

[hes4all]

I too went to the All 4 Fun this year and had a great time even with the rain. As for your assessment in comparing the event to a FMCA rally, I think it is hard to do. The All 4 Fun event is a fund raiser as you heard for the children burn center. I can also tell you that the Mile high Jeep club does rate the trails on the low side for very good reasons. Even this year I heard a few people complain that they got a dent or scratch on there vehicle. I asked one guy what trail he did and if he read the description? He said he didn't read it all the way, I said then it was his fault for the damage.

The Holy Cross run was a good one too. But boy did it rain hard on the way back.

I did have my grand son with me and he had a good time I think. He is 11/2 years old. You might have saw him dancing Friday night.

You mention that the FMCA rallies give away the same type prizes but not as many. Is this true? I hope to be going to some of your events because I do like to hang with the older crowds too. OK I'm getting old!

Glad you had a fun and safe time.

[Barb]

I think that I hardest thing about off roading is the different styles of trail rating systems.
When your trying to do advance research on trails, it's hard when your club uses a 1-5, and the club information your trying to obtain is using a 1-10. And very club has a different way of giving trail description. So you take the better be safe than sorry route. And still usually have a lot of fun.

I also like the tail damage web site. Lots if useful information. But some information is for members only. If anyone is a member, I'm looking for a invite

[Ernie n Tara]

Thanks for the referral to Trail Damage. I noticed two things on reviewing the trails I described. The descriptions are, in some cases, derived from one or the other (wording very similar or identical) and the ratings are much closer to my suggested ratings than those of the Mile High Jeep Club.

As for the FMCA Rallies giving away the same stuff, two of our prizes (actually Tara's) were identical to those given at A4F including a $250 gift certificate from Nemesis. It appeared that essentially all of the prizes given at A4F were donated by sponsors. It also seemed that most, if not all, of the meals, beer etc. were also donated/sponsored by vendors. I expect that the Mile High Jeep Club itself showed a good profit on the event.

Ernie

[hes4all]

I was asking about the raffles because of the 5 winches that were given away. I don't know if Mile High Jeep club really makes a profit on this event over all with the insurance, camp rental, advetising cost, mailings and so forth. I am sure that they do have a nice amount in reserve for each year to start.

Just different types of events.

[Ernie n Tara]

hes4all,

I don't recall winches as door prizes (maybe one), but in any event FMCA rallies are not as heavily sponsored as A4F is. As you note. different types of event. My comment on the profits was based on an apparent income of $30-50K or more and donations of $10-12K; but I have no real knowledge of their finances so I'm only giving an impression that could well be wrong.

Ernie

[hes4all]

There where four winches that signed up drivers could win on Friday night plus all the other stuff. But yes, they are very different events. I also meet a couple that are members of FMCA 4 wheelers. You might know them, Lynn and Karen Butler. Very nice people. They asked me to look into helping set up a FMCA rally in Idaho. I'm sure there would be enough trails and other things to do. I will be calling him soon to talk.

[Barb]

Just a note. The FMCA 4 Wheelers are a chapter of the FMCA National Club. And Moab is a chapter rally. And attended by members and their guests only. Which you are comparing to a All4Fun National Rally. Which, if I'm correct can be attended by any who signs up.

I think a better comparison would be the All4Fun Experience to a Jeep Jamboree.

[John Canfield]

Yes, FMCA 4-wheelers is a club that you must join and the Jamborees/A4F are 'open.'  You must participate in a Jeep at a Jamboree while the A4F is a 'run what you brung..'  Also, the FMCA club won't let your typical mall-crawlers join (like a Forester, SUV, etc.)

[Betty Brewer]

They asked me to look into helping set up a FMCA rally in Idaho. I'm sure there would be enough trails and other things to do. I will be calling him soon to talk.

What part of Idaho?

Betty
In Clark Fork Near Sandpoint.

[hes4all]

Yes, FMCA 4-wheelers is a club that you must join and the Jamborees/A4F are 'open.'  You must participate in a Jeep at a Jamboree while the A4F is a 'run what you brung..'  Also, the FMCA club won't let your typical mall-crawlers join (like a Forester, SUV, etc.)

I know this, I have been invited a few times by FMCA 4-wheelers.
And as for what part of Idaho, Southern Idaho, Hagerman area.

[Ernie n Tara]

Hi,

Just a note on Idaho rallies; we attended an Escapees rally in Riggins and were very disappointed with it. There were several reasons and one was an emphasis on ATV's by the leaders that is obviously not a typical problem for FMCA rallies. That said, the trails we did run were tight and very limited in range. We were not successful in identifying better trails in the limited time we had.

On the other hand, if suitable trails could be found, Riggins is perfect in most regards for a rally. We did a Jet Boat trip and Tubing on the Snake and had a great time with these. While there we saw Deer, Mountain Goats, Sheep, Eagles, and a Grizzly (definite young one where they are not supposed to be).

JM2C,

Ernie

[hes4all]

There are also many things to do in Southern Idaho plus the Jeeping. We do have many trails that are starting to grow over some but I know of many Jeep trails that are fun and some historical things to see when wheeling. The RV park here in Hagerman is owned by Jeepers too. The had 4 generations at All 4 Fun this year. Some of the other activities that I mention to the Butler's are rafting of courses, sight seeing (balance rock, little city of rocks, ice caves, golfing, deer everywhere and one of my favorites is a dinner cruise on the Snake River). I'm just going to pass  what I can to the Butler's and if they want to come and do a discovery trek, then I would gladly help them. Fall is a great time of the year here, not to hot and not to cold. Thanks