Coleman e3 battery and electrical options

[trbo323]

Hey guys and gals, my first post here. Wife and I purchased a Coleman e3 popup last year and while it was works as is, the batteries are getting old and we are thinking it's time to do some electrical system work.

Previous owners upgraded it to have 2 batteries, one is a flooded lead acid, the other is either AGM or gel, I don't remember which.

First, besides connecting to shore power, there is no charger or maintainer on it so I was thinking about this one

https://a.co/d/f3RDpLH

As it looks like it can handle 2 batteries of different types

Next, there's no cutoff on the trailer and the batteries are in 2 boxes that are locked with a bar and padlock so there is no "quick" way to cut the power. So I was thinking about something like this

Amazon.com

I'll need to make a mounting bracket but I have some stainless steel sheet to do that with.

Anyone see any problems with that so far?

Longer term we will be looking at replacing the batteries but I'm pretty lost in that respect. This is our first RV and there's about a million batteries out there. I probably don't want to do lithium, from what I'm reading the inverter would also need to be replaced and for the most part we are connecting to shore power when camping. We do have a solar panel to help things out.

So that aside gets a list of questions

1) do I need to stick to the same group size that's in it? Or just anything that fits in the battery box is fine?

2) I'm thinking agm or gel, just for the lower maintenance required, any reason to go with one or the other?

3) have any recommendations? I'm thinking we will be around a $400 budget if possible. Might be able to stretch that a bit of it's really needed but that's total, so 2 batteries

Thanks in advance

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

A coleman e3 brochure online shows it came with a converter. Not sure if yours originally did or not or if it was removed but even small campers usually have some means of charging their own batteries and operating from shore power. The Noco charger will work OK but it will be pretty slow compared to a camper converter. It's also not capable of operating loads directly like a camper converter will.

1. You can fit whatever batteries you want. No group size restriction but if they're on the trailer tongue a larger battery will add to tongue weight.

2. AGM is fine, you don't want gel. Gels are more for standby power than high current cyclic use.

3. For $400 you're probably not buying a pair of group 24/27 AGM's, so you're adjusting your budget or reducing your energy storage.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[trbo323]

A coleman e3 brochure online shows it came with a converter. Not sure if yours originally did or not or if it was removed but even small campers usually have some means of charging their own batteries and operating from shore power. The Noco charger will work OK but it will be pretty slow compared to a camper converter. It's also not capable of operating loads directly like a camper converter will.

1. You can fit whatever batteries you want. No group size restriction but if they're on the trailer tongue a larger battery will add to tongue weight.

2. AGM is fine, you don't want gel. Gels are more for standby power than high current cyclic use.

3. For $400 you're probably not buying a pair of group 24/27 AGM's, so you're adjusting your budget or reducing your energy storage.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Thanks for the reply. I don't think I explained what I'm doing with the noco the best.

The noco is for battery maintenance when the camper is being stored at home. Yes the e3 has a converter and that's what will be plugged in when camping. But the idea is when in storage I'll kill the power from the batteries going to the camper and plug in the noco for maintenance and float charge.

1) weight isn't an issue. Towing with a Toyota tundra and fully loaded I could tow very close to 2 of these e3s

2)AGM. Got it

3) I'll keep that one in mind thanks. Any specific brands I should look into or stay away from?

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

For storage you're right on track with the Noco, so check that box.

Many different battery brands are re-labled units that come from the same factory. Kinda like tires, there's only so many places that make them. At your price point you're going with whatever you can find. Duracell is a popular brand you'll find at various chains and they're made by East Penn, which is as good as any mainstream unit. I've had good service with Interstates, I've lost track of who makes those. There are premium brands (Rolls, Crown, Fullriver, Trojan) but those are large dollars and frankly I don't think you'd realize their performance advantages in camper service. I would offer that AGM's are nominally 2x the price of flooded lead, but doesn't offer 2x the capacity or service life. So if $/Ah is important, you'll get a lot more storage with flooded. It's also a consideration that if you're willing to spring for AGM, you're within a frog's hair of paying for lithium and they're a better value.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[trbo323]

For storage you're right on track with the Noco, so check that box.

Many different battery brands are re-labled units that come from the same factory. Kinda like tires, there's only so many places that make them. At your price point you're going with whatever you can find. Duracell is a popular brand you'll find at various chains and they're made by East Penn, which is as good as any mainstream unit. I've had good service with Interstates, I've lost track of who makes those. There are premium brands (Rolls, Crown, Fullriver, Trojan) but those are large dollars and frankly I don't think you'd realize their performance advantages in camper service. I would offer that AGM's are nominally 2x the price of flooded lead, but doesn't offer 2x the capacity or service life. So if $/Ah is important, you'll get a lot more storage with flooded. It's also a consideration that if you're willing to spring for AGM, you're within a frog's hair of paying for lithium and they're a better value.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Yes I realize I'm in the ballpark of lithium the problem is in all my reading I'm understanding that I'll have to replace the inverter as well as the original one won't charge lithium batteries. The battery boxes also come into question so it's a lot of external expenses and we really don't boondock that much so I just don't see the gains.

Any thoughts on these?

Deep Cycle AGM Battery 12 Volt 100Ah

Renogy’s 12V Deep Cycle AGM Battery is an excellent choice for standby or daily power needs. Limited time sale, 10% off: Renogy10off. Free shipping

www.renogy.com

That price is for 2 batteries

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

I don't think the issue with the converter is that it wouldn't charge lithium at all, the question would be how much it would charge them. Some converters like the progressive dynamics you can put into a manual bulk charge mode and it will bring lithium batteries near 100%. With solar, that could supply what the converter might not. I would place the Renogy's in the "decent" category. Their spec's are in line for what you'd want in cyclic service. Totally get what you're after, there's a lot to be said for plug and play.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[trbo323]

I don't think the issue with the converter is that it wouldn't charge lithium at all, the question would be how much it would charge them. Some converters like the progressive dynamics you can put into a manual bulk charge mode and it will bring lithium batteries near 100%. With solar, that could supply what the converter might not. I would place the Renogy's in the "decent" category. Their spec's are in line for what you'd want in cyclic service. Totally get what you're after, there's a lot to be said for plug and play.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

I should have said that more clear, yes the inverter can charge lithium but only to around 80% and id have to go look at the specs on our solar unit to see if it can charge them at all.

So lithium would likely be more expensive for the batteries alone, I could only get an 80% charge from the inverter without spending another ~$200 on a new one (I may have to up size the wiring as well) and I would likely have to completely redo the battery box setup and security bar that is currently existing

OR

Spend less money drop in 2 AGM batteries and be done.

Yes I realize lithium would be better but considering we really don't do much boondocking I would barely ever see those benefits.

Right now I'm looking to get us set up for a trip in August. 4 days boondock with the solar panel as support. My plan is to get the charger and cut off switch installed first and see if I can get a feel for how the current batteries are doing.

Is there any way to test the current batteries to check their health?

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The advantage of AGM is low maintenance and almost zero corrosion. No water to monitor/add and no outgassing in normal use. The downside is higher price and a small reduction is amp-hour capacity vs flooded. Whether those advantages are worth the price is something YOU need to decide.

The lowest cost be amp-hour would be a pair of 6v GC2 (golf car) flooded batteries in series and those will also be superior in life cycles to the cheaper marine/RV hydrid deep cycles.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

The lead vs lithium choice isn't a slam dunk for sure, highly situation specific.

You test any battery by applying a load that matches what it's spec'd for and seeing how many amp hours it will deliver. Example, a pair of typical GC's are rated 220Ah at C/20, so 220Ah at 11A. You fully charge the battery then apply an 11A load, and time how long it takes for the battery to be fully discharged. For most lead batteries that's 1.75V per cell (10.5V/6 cells). There are subtleties like how long the battery has sat before the test, ambient temperature and if the load is constant current, constant resistance or constant power but generally a "good" battery will run it's spec'd load for close to 20 hours. 15 hours is 75%, 10 hours, 50%. This is an easy way to know the merit of any storage battery.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

A common battery "load tester" will give you an indication of its health, even though the garden-variety testers used in auto parts stores are geared toward engine cranking than deep cycling. These testers put a brief high amp load on the battery and measure the voltage drop. A weak cell will almost sure show an abnormally high drop. It's not foolproof when used on a deep cycle, but it's a quick & easy confidence check. If your RV deep cycle fails the test or is marginal, it's surely in poor health. If it passes the test, it's healthy but still may be somewhat short of its rated AH capacity. Most lead acid batteries can no longer deliver the rated AH after a year or so. The question is how much less.

Most auto parts or battery stores will load test a battery for free (in hopes of selling you a replacement). Or buy an el-cheapo tester at Harbor Freight or Walmart so you can do a quick sniff test at home.

 

[Kirk]

1) weight isn't an issue. Towing with a Toyota tundra and fully loaded I could tow very close to 2 of these e3s

The issue of weight is not for your Tundra but for the 4400# GVWR of the trailer and it's weight distribution.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Most lead acid batteries can no longer deliver the rated AH after a year or so.

Maybe "most" figures batteries that have been abused or neglected but capacity loss is not inherent. Last spring when I did a dewinterize capacity test my 5 year old interstates tested at 103%. I suspect now at 6 years old they might be less than 100% but likely not by much unless they were damaged over the winter. Wonder and guess or measure and know. It's simple enough to do a capacity test at any time and get a hard number of merit.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[trbo323]

The issue of weight is not for your Tundra but for the 4400# GVWR of the trailer and it's weight distribution.

Also not an issue. The E3 has a cargo deck on front meant to carry motorcycles or ATVs. I'm currently loading it with MAYBE 300lbs at the most

Id also rather take the weight onto the truck as much as I can instead of the trailer axle anyway.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Two cases of beer behind the axle will cancel it.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[trbo323]

I'm actually a class A commercial driver for my day job so I'm well aware of weight and balance. Normally I'm over 100,000 lbs and have eight axles to figure out weight balance for.

Not to mention I'm not doing anything different than what's already on the trailer it already has two batteries up front

Ok. Back on track, lightning boxes and electron snakes

I probably won't be buying the batteries themselves for a while does anybody have any other batteries I should look into? I'm pretty set on the AGMs but there is a slew of brands and models out there

This might be a question more for the noco people but since these batteries are hooked up in parallel does that affect how they charge at all? That charger I'm looking at is able to hook to two batteries I'm not sure what will happen if those two batteries are also hooked together.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

there is a slew of brands and models out there

You narrow the field by performance characteristics you want or need. Then it comes down to cost and availability. Once in a while boondockers can likely get by with most any battery, off grid/solar full timers with full electric rigs tend to spring for the higher end ones. One baseline for comparison would be what you already have and what you'd change to make that better.

Batteries in parallel, provided they're starting out from the same age/usage point and correctly wired will share charge (and discharge) current mostly evenly. As a maintenance/float charger the Noco is fine but for general charging, AGM's usually specify a minimum charge rate like C/10. Two 100Ah batteries in parallel would need 20+ amps.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Ernie n Tara]

Just a thought; if the batteries are secured it may be a PITA to remove them from the box to add distilled water. Advantage AGM!

Ernie

 

[Kirk]

This might be a question more for the noco people but since these batteries are hooked up in parallel does that affect how they charge at all?

Yes it does. When you have parallel batteries, both will only charge to the same level as the weaker battery so they need to be a matched set. If you have 2 batteries of 6V in series then each/both will reach the highest charge level it is capable of.

 

[trbo323]

Just a thought; if the batteries are secured it may be a PITA to remove them from the box to add distilled water. Advantage AGM!

Ernie

Bingo, you nailed one of the reasons I am leaning towards agm