Dual Propane Tank Question

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oldryder

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Avon MN
New to us Grand Design 27RL. Two 30lb tanks. Manual has lots of information about generic propane systems but no details on the operation of a 2 tank system. (Our MH had one big tank so we never had to deal with this.) The driver side tank has a regulator with the Red/Green level indicator and a selector on top, other side no regulator. So questions:

1. what is the normal way to operate? both tanks open, or alternate with one open at a time?
1a. is normal procedure to empty the non regulator side 1st?
2. will the system work with one tank removed?
3. other question(s) I should be asking?

thx to anyone taking the time to offer advice.
 
What you have is an auto switching regulator. There should be a lever or knob on the regulator where you can select which cylinder is to be the service cylinder (cylinder being used). When the service cylinder gets very near empty the regulator will switch to use the other cylinder and the regulator flag will turn red. If the second cylinder has the valve open then it becomes the service cylinder.

The intended way to use this auto switching system is to open the valves on both cylinders, otherwise you are defeating the function of the auto switching regulator. When the first cylinder becomes very low and the regulator switches to the other cylinder and the flag will turn red. You can then switch the regulator to point to the other cylinder and the flag will turn green...provided there is propane in the second cylinder and the valve is open. I prefer to leave the regulator indicator pointing to the empty cylinder and the flag red as a reminder that one cylinder is empty.

Yes, the system will work fine with one cylinder removed. However, to prevent a possible propane gas leak you should switch the regulator to point to the now service cylinder and have a green flag on the regulator before removing the empty cylinder. The so called empty cylinder will not be completely empty. Some propane will remain in the cylinder to provide a positive pressure in the cylinder and prevent contamination of the cylinder by outside air.

Often when the two cylinders are separated by more than 60 inches there will be a second regulator between the cylinders. This smaller regulator is usually red. The second regulator is not required if the gas line between the two cylinders is less than 60 inches...so I have read. You should determine if you have that second regulator so that you can consider it if troubleshooting of the system becomes necessary.
 
Some additional info: When opening the service valves on the propane cylinders you should open them all the way. This will seat the shaft seals and prevent a possible shaft gas leak.

The plastic hand tightened nuts on the propane "pigtail" hoses that connect to each cylinder is to be snugged only. That nut contains some safety devices. One of those devices is a plastic ring that is designed to melt and shut off the gas flow in the event of a fire. If you over tighten that nut you can break that plastic ring and shut off all propane gas flow from that cylinder. That would require you to replace the "pigtail" hose. You could still use the other cylinder or move the full cylinder to the good non damaged side or switch the hoses.
 
All good information. Thanks to all.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but do these pigtail regulators ever fail? I expect that mine may have last season since it didn't automatically switch over to my full tank? What would the test procedure be to determine if it has failed?

Thanks in advance!
 
With both tanks full and their valves are open, I would think that you could test it by positioning the pointer to one of the full tanks then light your gas stove. Then go outside and shut the tank off which the pointer is pointing to. If the flag turns red and the stove stays lit, it means that it automatically changed over to the second tank. It may take a few seconds for the flag to switch to red.
Then rotate the pointer to the second tank and the flag should now be green
 
The driver side tank has a regulator with the Red/Green level indicator and a selector on top, other side no regulator.

OK, this is a 5th wheel with the tanks separated by some distance. We have encountered this discussion before HERE and somewhere between the passenger side tank and the regulator will be a single in-line regulator such as this one (tank is removed in this pic.) This is required by code.

RVFixer describes the operation so I won't repeat any of it, just treat the two tanks and regulator as if they were right next to each other. Something I didn't see mentioned is to open the tanks VERY slowly or the flow fuse inside the green plastic nut will shut off and you won't get any flow from that tank.

75450-c861c3d666b690600b663cfa9f94d28e.jpg


From this intermediate regulator the line continues to the standard automatic change over regulator adjacent to the drivers side tank. Probably something like this one.

75449-d52a7da2f6ed4fc1bbc591a1a2d4c7e2.jpg

Charles
 
Yes, the "Pigtail" hose devices can fail but the failure mode is usually a gas leak at the swivel fitting where the hose connects to the regulator. Any device with moving parts can fail but I haven't seen a "Pigtail" fail and shut off the propane flow.

The test above that Rene T described seems reasonable, however I have never done that or had the need to. I am not sure if the system will switch fast enough to keep the burner lit when you close the valve on the service cylinder. If the flame goes out, after you close the valve and get the red flag, try relighting the stove burner flame. If the flame lights and stays lit with a red flag on the regulator then the regulator successfully auto switched to the second cylinder.As Rene T said make sure that you have propane in the second cylinder and the valve is fully open.

The red regulator is required when the hose between the two cylinders in over 60 inches. I have seen those regulators fail. If you verify that you have a switching problem with Rene's test I would try
Temporarily removing the red regulator. If it then switches normally replace the red regulator. Do not use the system longer than to complete the test. That red regulator is a safety feature.

Exactly what makes you think that you have a failure? I have seem the red secondary regulator fail and cause some head scratching troubleshooting.

Oh by the way, the so called excessive flow check valve in the plastic "Pigtail" nut, contrary to popular belief, is NOT there to shut off all gas flow in the event of excessive flow. You can NOT accidentally activate the excessive flow check valve by opening your cylinder valve to rapidly. That check valve is designed to activate every time you open the cylinder valve into a low or zero pressure system. Then check valve closes off 90% of the gas flow (never 100%). The 10% flow that continues is for the purpose of pressure checking the system. If there are no leaks in the system the pressure will build up sufficiently to cause the excessive flow check valve to auto reset and make 100% gas flow available. If the system has a leak and does not pressurize sufficiently to reset the check valve then you will not get more than 10% gas flow. There is a huge amount of misunderstanding of this check valve function online, in articles, in various forums including this one and even in some RV trailer manuals.

If you break a propane pipe or hose there is nothing in the system that will shut off all gas flow. A break in a propane line will cause the excessive flow check valve to activate and shut off about 90% of the gas flow, the 10% flow will continue and that will support a rather large flame. They only thing in the system that is designed to shut off 100% of the gas flow is a plastic ring inside the "Pigtail" line that is designed to melt in the event of a fire and cause spring pressure to shut off the all gas flow. Obviously that cannot be reset.

Sorry for the long winded post...................
 
The 10% flow that continues is for the purpose of pressure checking the system. If there are no leaks in the system the pressure will build up sufficiently to cause the excessive flow check valve to auto reset and make 100% gas flow available. If the system has a leak and does not pressurize sufficiently to reset the check valve then you will not get more than 10% gas flow. There is a huge amount of misunderstanding of this check valve function online, in articles, in various forums including this one and even in some RV trailer manuals.
The "misunderstanding" arises because typically the user has a burner valve open, frantically trying to get it going, so the system never re-pressurizes. You have to close the appliance valves, leave the tank valves open, and wait a few minutes before trying again.

As you described so well, opening the tank valve quickly or slowly isn't going to change anything.
 
Gary...What bothers me when I see someone here post, or I read in articles online, in magazines and even in some trailer manuals, that you should always open your propane cylinder valves "very, very slowly" Is the fact that doing that can be dangerous or at lest cause some problems. I have demonstrated this by intentionally leaving a stove burner valve open with the cylinder valves closed. Then I opened a cylinder valve very, very slowly. That slow opening of the cylinder valve prevented a rush gas into the zero pressure system. With no rush of gas the excessive flow check valve was "fooled" and did not activate. That meant there was no designed pressure check (the 10% flow) and 100% gas flow was available to the leak (open stove burner valve in this case).

I showed a friend how he could catch leaks in the propane system quickly by using my little test. If you open your cylinder valve into a system that leaks you are going to still get a green flag on the regulator. However, if after you open the valve and get the green flag you then close that valve....If after a short time, maybe 30 seconds or less the flag turns red then the system pressure didn't hold and there is a leak somewhere in the system. If the flag remains green, say for a couple of minutes or so, then the system is holding pressure. On my knew trailer that I just brought home I did this test and left it overnight. I had opened the cylinder valve, got the green flag and closed the valve. The flag was still green the next morning. No leaks in that system.

If people would learn more about their systems and how they work they would have a much more trouble free time and much easier time identifying and/or troubleshooting problems. Another little test that I use to insure that my water system doesn't have hidden leaks is a s follows:

I also do another test on my freshwater system. With water in my freshwater tank and the water pump ON...I open a faucet until the pump runs. Then I close the faucet and when the pump stops I turn the pump electrical switch off isolating the pressure in the system. I leave that for a number of hours or even overnight. Then I turn the pump switch back on...if the pump runs even a little then the system didn't hold pressure and you have a leak somewhere or a leak-back through the pump-head check valve back to the tank. You have to leave it with the pump off for some hours, longer if you have an accumulator in the system. Even if you don't have an accumulator if you have a tank water heater the designed air gap at the top of the tank can act as a pressure accumulator. I do this test a few days before trips as well as the above propane leak check. Those can save problems while on your trip. Propanee leaks can be dangerous and small undetected water leaks can destroy any RV.

Another long post....I better go away for a while......................
 
Big Thanks. I had no idea that was auto. I always thought if you put in middle you risked emptying both tanks at once and being completely out of fuel. (Which I gues is still true)
So I always left other tank off and just manually switched when needed. Sometimes my judgement was off and this was middle of night. Lol
Saw this thread, tested it and well all be, RVfixer is 100% correct!!!!
Learnt me a lil something new this week.
 
I am always amazed at how many people have auto switching regulators and still leave one cylinder valve closed...even when they know about the auto function! I asked a friend why he did that and his answer was that he wanted to know when the first cylinder ran out. Well, he got what he wanted...I guess. One rainy cold night I heard noises next to our trailer bedroom. It was 3 AM and my friend was out opening his cylinder valve. The story, told by his wife the next day, was that they woke up freezing and he had to go out and open the closed cylinder valve and get the furnace going again. We were in a National Park with no hookups so our fridges were running on propane. Late the next morning they noticed the check light was illuminated on their fridge. When the first cylinder ran out the fridge used up the gas in the line and went out and shut down. The fridge evidently went though its three start cycles before the gas line filled and the fridge shut down.

I'll use mine with both cylinders open as it was designed to be used..................................
 
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