LAB or LiFePO4 battery

[Pass me]

I understand a 6V LAB holds more amps than its 12V equivalent, is this true then for LiFePO4 batteries? If not than why are there 6, 12, 24V etc ones?

 

[Isaac-1]

This is a complex one to answer, but here goes, a 6 volt lead acid battery has half as many plates as a 12v lead acid battery, this allows for any given size of battery to use thicker plates, which tends to result in a more durable longer lasting battery. As a result a pair of 6V golf cart batteries wired in series to get 12V, tends to outlast a pair of 12V deep cycle batteries of the same basic size wired in parallel, though both will have a comparable total amp hour rating. LiFePo4 Lithium batteries are a completely different beast as they store electricity physically as electrical charge in the battery, while a lead acid battery stores it chemically, resulting in many different traits than lead acid, a few of the more significant ones for RV owners is that LiFePo4 weigh about half as much as Lead acid for a given amp hour capacity, LiFePo4 are good for 3,500 - 5,000 charge cycles vs about 300-500 for Lead Acid, and that there is no need to fully charge LiFePo4 every charge cycle and or to float charge them in order to maximize their life, in other word when not in use they can just be left of a shelf for many months with no loss in life expectancy, where lead acid need to be connected to a float charger if stored for long periods of time.

p.s. higher voltage like 24, 36,48V is used to increase watt draw without needing to use absurdly large connector wiring.

 

[DonTom]

I understand a 6V LAB holds more amps than its 12V equivalent,

Amps is current capacity, NOT power. So if both batteries are the same physical size the 12V will have half the amperage of the six-volt.

Power (watts) is volts times amps. If the 6V is ten amps, the 12V will most likely be five amps if the physical sizes are the same.

IOW, 6V times 10A=60 watts.
12V times 5A=60 watts.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[John From Detroit]

Do 6 Volt Lead Acid batteries hole more amps than 12 volt (For the same size)
No. they hold more Amp-Hours.. But wait there's more

Though we talk about amp hours what your "Stuff" eats is Watt Hours.. Amps*Volts*Power factor = watts (Most folks forget that last item) or VOlt-Amps (that's Volts*amps)

So a 6 volt battery holds say 200 amp hours
A same size (not same footprint) 12 volt holds 100 amp hours

Both hold PRECISELY the same number of Volt-Amp hours or wat hours.

Now why use 6 volt Golf Car batteries then? Explained, in part by the first response.

The Golf Car battery is designed for many many cycles of discharge recharge. It's also designed to be discharged somewhat more than say a MARINE/deep cycle (pay attention to case) which is primarily a Starting battery or true starting batteries.. The more plates of the Automotive type batteries mean they can pass more amps for short periods (needed to crank a 8.1L Vortec) but.. they are subject to damage if discharged too far.

Also the 6 volt GC battery.. Well Golf Courses from sea to shining sea order them by the pallet load. Thus they are the single most produced Lead Acid battery... In 12 volt you have many sizes and shapes but in the 6V GC battery basically 3 (Different heights/capacities) so the assembly lines run constantly without much expensive retooling.. This makes them less expensive.

 

[Pass me]

This is a complex one to answer, but here goes, a 6 volt lead acid battery has half as many plates as a 12v lead acid battery, this allows for any given size of battery to use thicker plates, which tends to result in a more durable longer lasting battery. As a result a pair of 6V golf cart batteries wired in series to get 12V, tends to outlast a pair of 12V deep cycle batteries of the same basic size wired in parallel, though both will have a comparable total amp hour rating. LiFePo4 Lithium batteries are a completely different beast as they store electricity physically as electrical charge in the battery, while a lead acid battery stores it chemically, resulting in many different traits than lead acid, a few of the more significant ones for RV owners is that LiFePo4 weigh about half as much as Lead acid for a given amp hour capacity, LiFePo4 are good for 3,500 - 5,000 charge cycles vs about 300-500 for Lead Acid, and that there is no need to fully charge LiFePo4 every charge cycle and or to float charge them in order to maximize their life, in other word when not in use they can just be left of a shelf for many months with no loss in life expectancy, where lead acid need to be connected to a float charger if stored for long periods of time.

p.s. higher voltage like 24, 36,48V is used to increase watt draw without needing to use absurdly large connector wiring.

Thanks for this, I've recently finished restoring my 5 yrs young 70Ahr 12V marine LAB battery, a learning experience more than anything. In this the forum has been amazing, Batteries 101 on steroids so to speak, Lol. It went from 12.2V 100% SOC to 13.1V. It still self discharges quite fast tho - 12.4V after ~ 2 weeks on the bench but it'll do. I plan to draw it down ~70% then run my 2100W genny for ~ 2 hrs and repeat. Enough to support my simple boondocking needs.
Lithium batteries have never been a consideration ($$$) but they're continued price drop has me kicking the tires. Electrical storage instead of chemical (now I know, thanks) obviously has many advantages so I'd like to ask folks experience who use LiFePo4.
"You get what you pay for" mostly but for a weekend warrior like me would a $300 (Amazon.ca) 100Ahr Lithium battery do the job? I can easily pay 3x this for the same Ahr, just not sure I need to.

 

[xrated]

Do 6 Volt Lead Acid batteries hole more amps than 12 volt (For the same size)
No. they hold more Amp-Hours.. But wait there's more

Though we talk about amp hours what your "Stuff" eats is Watt Hours.. Amps*Volts*Power factor = watts (Most folks forget that last item) or VOlt-Amps (that's Volts*amps)

So a 6 volt battery holds say 200 amp hours
A same size (not same footprint) 12 volt holds 100 amp hours

Both hold PRECISELY the same number of Volt-Amp hours or wat hours.

Now why use 6 volt Golf Car batteries then? Explained, in part by the first response.

The Golf Car battery is designed for many many cycles of discharge recharge. It's also designed to be discharged somewhat more than say a MARINE/deep cycle (pay attention to case) which is primarily a Starting battery or true starting batteries.. The more plates of the Automotive type batteries mean they can pass more amps for short periods (needed to crank a 8.1L Vortec) but.. they are subject to damage if discharged too far.

Also the 6 volt GC battery.. Well Golf Courses from sea to shining sea order them by the pallet load. Thus they are the single most produced Lead Acid battery... In 12 volt you have many sizes and shapes but in the 6V GC battery basically 3 (Different heights/capacities) so the assembly lines run constantly without much expensive retooling.. This makes them less expensive.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but "Power Factor" is related to Alternating Current, NOT Direct Current!

The overall power factor is defined as the cosine of the angle between the phase voltage and the phase current. Since there is no alternation in DC voltage, there is no Power Factor......the voltage and current are in phase, there is Zero Lag or Zero lead of the current​

 

[Lou Schneider]

Thanks for this, I've recently finished restoring my 5 yrs young 70Ahr 12V marine LAB battery, a learning experience more than anything. In this the forum has been amazing, Batteries 101 on steroids so to speak, Lol. It went from 12.2V 100% SOC to 13.1V. It still self discharges quite fast tho - 12.4V after ~ 2 weeks on the bench but it'll do. I plan to draw it down ~70% then run my 2100W genny for ~ 2 hrs and repeat. Enough to support my simple boondocking needs.
Lithium batteries have never been a consideration ($$$) but they're continued price drop has me kicking the tires. Electrical storage instead of chemical (now I know, thanks) obviously has many advantages so I'd like to ask folks experience who use LiFePo4.
"You get what you pay for" mostly but for a weekend warrior like me would a $300 (Amazon.ca) 100Ahr Lithium battery do the job? I can easily pay 3x this for the same Ahr, just not sure I need to.

I have 3 of the Chin's (Now Ampere Time) $300 LiFePO4 batteries that have been powering my golf cart for a year now. They work great except they don't have low temperature charging protection so I have to be careful not to charge them when the temperature falls below freezing..

I'd get a battery with cold temperature charging protection. The Weize has good reviews, it's $279 from Amazon.

Weize 100 a/h lithium battery

You should also get a shunt based battery monitor to keep track of the battery's state of charge. A lithium battery's voltage doesn't change much between about 80% and 20% SOC so you need something that keeps track of the current going in and out, a voltage based monitor is pretty useless. Amazon has a wide variety, here's one of the least expensive.

AiLi Battery Monitor

 

[DonTom]

Do 6 Volt Lead Acid batteries hole more amps than 12 volt (For the same size)
No.

Watt-hour capacity will be the same. Therefore, can draw twice the current from the six-volt battery than the 12-volt battery of the same size.

Power factor has to do with "apparent power" where volts times amps does NOT match the true power being used. Only happens in AC circuits, so it has nothing to do with batteries. At least not until somebody invents an AC battery!

 

[WME]

If you can wait a bit there are usually "inventory reduction sales" around April 15th

 

[John From Detroit]

Watt-hour capacity will be the same. Therefore, can draw twice the current from the six-volt battery than the 12-volt battery of the same size.

No in fact you can't draw a fast off a GC (Golf Car) deep cycle as you can the same capacity 12 vole MARINE/deep cycle Here is how it works
Put a pair of oh say Group 29s in parallel you have a bit over 200 amp hours of battery You can draw current at a given rate for a period of time.

Put a pair of GC-2 six volt in series Again you have about 200 amp hours (2400 watt hours at the 20 hour rate (Forgot to add that on the first line) so you can draw power AT THE SAME RATE but due to the Deep cycle for a bit longer.

With six volt in series you add VOLTS 6+6 = 12

With 12 volt in parallel you add Amps 100+10=200

The only real difference is the depth of "Danger point" discharge GC types are can go to half full (100 amp hours used) The pair of 12's about 76-80 percent full (Roughly half that much power) before you start to rapid age the battery. The reason is both plate construction and chemistery.

Also GC batteries.. Should you do an "OH C&&P! Level discharge.. Better odds of recovery (NOTE IT's odds not guaranteed) Starting batteries are toast at that level MARINE/deep cycle I'd not wish to bet on .

 

[Pass me]

If you can wait a bit there are usually "inventory reduction sales" around April 15th

Now yer talking my language! I will definitely take this under advisement as it is gonna be about this time I'll have narrowed down my choices here. Much appreciated.