Tesla fails , and don't turn on your radio either

[DonTom]

EV's are in their infancy

No, far from it.

"Electric vehicles first appeared in the mid-19th century." See here.
It's ICE vehicles that have changed very little. Still a gas explosion to move a piston. Modern EVs went from DC motors to a very complicated wave shape in three pulses 120 degrees apart for each one RPM. They keep on making improvements to that waveshape. For an example, one of the OTA updates increased my range by a few miles.

Can you increase your MPG while asleep with your ICE vehicles as I can with my Tesla?

It's ICE vehicles that are STILL in their infancy. Only very minor improvements. But major improvements with EVs in the same time.

What really happened is the ICE vehicles were so slow in their improvements that EVs got way ahead of them in performance, efficiency and just about everything else.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

Many of the older wall connectors are 80 amp as some of the older Tesla model S’s were available with a dual charger option pulling up to 72 amps.

Thanks for that info. I was wondering where they were used. So the high current ones are the oldest Destination Charge Stations, which I think probably explains why I have a problem with them on my electric motorcycles shutting off in ten minutes when I convert them to J-1772 with a Tesla-Tap. I only have the problem on the very high current ones, which is a hassle as I have to reset the charge station every ten minutes.

The Wall Connector have to switch to a J-1772 mode. Takes 30 seconds to use as a J-1772. The ones I own (48 amps) and the ones I use on the road all work fine until I use a 14KW station or higher. So I assume Tesla solved the issue on later units to be compatible with more J-1772 vehicles. Not even this unit helps with that problem. This works as well on the >14KW Tesla charge stations. So I don't think the problem is the pilot signal on the high output stations. I think what the box does is prevents the J-1772 connector diode and resistor adding to the same in the Tesla head thus the 14-50R output.

I have my motorcycles set up to charge from anything possible. And I am the ONLY person to ever check in here as that is a weird connector. Notice the taps point out instead of in. Very difficult to find a plug for. Click on the photo there and look at the last photo (4th photo).

Going around Lake Tahoe on an electric motorcycle is something I do quite often.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

So you and I agree on these current overpriced EVs.

All luxury cars are overpriced and that includes ICE. The largest profits are normally on luxury vehicles, regardless if ICE or EV. And Tesla is considered a luxury vehicle.

BTW, there are some fairly cheap EVs.

The only very expensive part in an EV is the battery. As the batteries become cheaper, the prices of the cars should all drop down as you get even better range.

Often the battery is worth more than half the price of the vehicle.

The two batteries in my Zero SR motorcycle cost $11,500.00. Life expectancy of these batteries are 485,000 miles for the range to drop to 80% of new. But about half those miles if often ridden at very high speeds. Battery life is effected by the load, just as is the charge.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Viajeros]

Thanks for that info. I was wondering where they were used. So the high current ones are the oldest Destination Charge Stations, which I think probably explains why I have a problem with them on my electric motorcycles shutting off in ten minutes when I convert them to J-1772 with a Tesla-Tap. I only have the problem on the very high current ones, which is a hassle as I have to reset the charge station every ten minutes.

The Wall Connector have to switch to a J-1772 mode. Takes 30 seconds to use as a J-1772. The ones I own (48 amps) and the ones I use on the road all work fine until I use a 14KW station or higher. So I assume Tesla solved the issue on later units to be compatible with more J-1772 vehicles. Not even this unit helps with that problem. This works as well on the >14KW Tesla charge stations. So I don't think the problem is the pilot signal on the high output stations. I think what the box does is prevents the J-1772 connector diode and resistor adding to the same in the Tesla head thus the 14-50R output.

I have my motorcycles set up to charge from anything possible. And I am the ONLY person to ever check in here as that is a weird connector. Notice the taps point out instead of in. Very difficult to find a plug for. Click on the photo there and look at the last photo (4th photo).

Going around Lake Tahoe on an electric motorcycle is something I do quite often.

-Don- Reno, NV

We use the App when not in Supercharger Territory. Handy. Found out that Tesla is putting a 12 stall Supercharger combo 4 stall CCS/Chademo site at a shopping centre about 700 meters from our townhouse. I can almost throw a rock at it. Useless for us but great for our little town. Tesla is being contracted by our provincial utility to add the 4 public CCS/Chademo stalls. I think it’s great. And it is apparently happening in two other towns in the province with the same 25/75 split formula. Maybe a sign of things to come.

 

[DonTom]

We use the App when not in Supercharger Territory.

I am always in Supercharger territory when in my Tesla, but since I purchased my car new in 2018, I have used two. Those were both overnight trips where I stayed in a motel.

Yeah, there are many charge stations near here as well as in Auburn, CA that I have never used. Too close to home to be useful.

I only rarely use the Tesla App. or even the Tesla Cards. I use the FOB, which I find the most handy of all.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Ex-Calif]

I am pulling for EVs - At the moment I could only consider a hybrid. Not everyone can buy 5 cars.

A couple of weeks ago I had to make a 1600 mile round trip from Florida to Dayton. I had a 30 hour window to get there and back including some sleep and a stop at my bank.

I could not have done that trip in an EV. I could have done it in a hybrid. I did it in my Jeep.

 

[Larry N.]

How about we compare the Tesla cars to the Model T or equivalent. EV's are in their infancy so I think the comparison to infant "Gas Guzzlers" would be more appropriate than comparing greatly evolved fossil fuels vehicles to infant electric vehicles

That might be true if the remaining portions of the EV (non propulsive) were as "primitive" as they were on the model T. And the electric car isn't in its true infancy anyway. They DID have electric cars in the very early days.

This link covers such from from 1895 to 1925: Overview of early electric cars (1895-1925)

A brief quote from the site:

One hundred years ago electric cars were a common sight on city streets in Europe and the United States. Many of them had a range comparable to that of today's EV's.

 

[Viajeros]

I am pulling for EVs - At the moment I could only consider a hybrid. Not everyone can buy 5 cars.

A couple of weeks ago I had to make a 1600 mile round trip from Florida to Dayton. I had a 30 hour window to get there and back including some sleep and a stop at my bank.

I could not have done that trip in an EV. I could have done it in a hybrid. I did it in my Jeep.

I don’t know. That’s doable in a new model S or an AWD model 3. It would depend on the route. V3 Supercharger availability along the way etc. West coast that would be easy.

 

[Viajeros]

That might be true if the remaining portions of the EV (non propulsive) were as "primitive" as they were on the model T. And the electric car isn't in its true infancy anyway. They DID have electric cars in the very early days.

This link covers such from from 1895 to 1925: Overview of early electric cars (1895-1925)

A brief quote from the site:

I might have missed it in the article but I didn’t see where they were saying electric vehicles back then had 300 or 400 mile ranges.
And of course back then there was no fast charge network.

Go for a drive in a new EV and see if you think it’s like an EV from a 100 years ago.

 

[Ex-Calif]

I don’t know. That’s probably doable in a new model S. Maybe even an AWD model 3. It would depend on the route. V3 Supercharger availability along the way etc.

It's 19 miles on SR51 to I75 to Dayton.

I've ridden in Tesla's and I remember my friends had a trip calculator that recommended a route and the recharge stops on the way.

I hear you that "it might" but I'd love to see some real data... With a 320 odd mile range that's 5 recharging stops. What is the flat battery to full charge time? I know the actual in motion drive time is 11-12 hours on way or 24 hours round trip. Add 5 charge times to get elapsed time.

 

[Viajeros]

It's 19 miles on SR51 to I75 to Dayton.

I've ridden in Tesla's and I remember my friends had a trip calculator that recommended a route and the recharge stops on the way.

I hear you that "it might" but I'd love to see some real data... With a 320 odd mile range that's 5 recharging stops. What is the flat battery to full charge time? I know the actual in motion drive time is 11-12 hours on way or 24 hours round trip. Add 5 charge times to get elapsed time.

Hard to say. For us we tend to only do 9 or 10 hours per day. And we don’t really stop to charge we just charge while we are stopped. We take a 10 or 15 minute break every 2 or 3 hours. Maybe 20 minutes at lunch. I’m trying to remember what our typical state of charge is. I think the lowest i have seen is 18 percent so after 20 minutes you would probably be around 80 percent at a V3 supercharger. I don’t pay much attention to it.

Anyway, it’s a little different way of travelling for us but doesn’t take us any longer to get there. Like I say, don’t stop to charge, just charge while you stop. Works for us but that’s just how we roll. Tons of Superchargers on the west coast of North America. We haven’t travelled in the east so can’t say what that would be like.

Cheers.

 

[Jayflight]

I am pulling for EVs - At the moment I could only consider a hybrid. Not everyone can buy 5 cars.

A couple of weeks ago I had to make a 1600 mile round trip from Florida to Dayton. I had a 30 hour window to get there and back including some sleep and a stop at my bank.

I could not have done that trip in an EV. I could have done it in a hybrid. I did it in my Jeep.

And would have spent 50 grand on average less in a four door sedan in the same comfort and options, including semi self driving mode on the interstate too.

 

[Ex-Calif]

Hard to say. For us we tend to only do 9 or 10 hours per day. And we don’t really stop to charge we just charge while we are stopped. We take a 10 or 15 minute break every 2 or 3 hours. Maybe 20 minutes at lunch. I’m trying to remember what our typical state of charge is. I think the lowest i have seen is 18 percent so after 20 minutes you would probably be around 80 percent at a V3 supercharger. I don’t pay much attention to it.

Anyway, it’s a little different way of travelling for us but doesn’t take us any longer to get there. Like I say, don’t stop to charge, just charge while you stop. Works for us but that’s just how we roll. Tons of Superchargers on the west coast of North America. We haven’t travelled in the east so can’t say what that would be like.

Cheers.

I am not calling you out or dissing EVs. It was a specific trip need of mine that I had to do.

When people say EVs are in infancy here is a part of that. I have raised the issue of a "standard" replaceable battery pack "standard." Right now the makers have proprietary solutions that is giving them (or not) advantage in the market.

Computers and all kinds of tech evolved to some industry standards.

If I could stop at a station, have the battery swapped out in 10 minutes and pay a rotable fee (think propane tank) I definitely could do that trip.

But last time I said that most of the EV guys poo-pooed it and told me why it can't happen.

Oh, well...

 

[UTTransplant]

We are planning on getting an EV for our next vehicle when the current Rav4 dies (160,000 miles). It is our second vehicle at home, and is just used for local trips and to see the kids 40-50 miles away. I am looking forward to it for ease of use and quiet. We have friends with EV vehicles, and it would be very appropriate for our use. As to Tesla or something else, we will wait to see what’s available when the time comes. I can’t stand Elon Musk, so a non-Tesla would be preferred, but it isn’t a hard “no”. I really don’t see why people can’t understand that not every vehicle type is suited to every use. No reason to hate on someone for buying whatever is the best for them.

 

[DonTom]

but I didn’t see where they were saying electric vehicles back then had 300 or 400 mile ranges.

And at what speed? Giving a range for an EV with no mention of at what speed is a waste of time.

For an example, there are Energica motorcycles that have a 250 mile range in city traffic but only 112 miles somewhat slow on the freeway and MUCH lower range at the higher speed limits (such as 80 MPH as it is a few miles east of Reno). EVs usually get their best range in the stop and go city traffic, much the opposite of ICE vehicles.

Tesla range is given for 65 MPH and its 100 miles more range than that spec at 38 MPH.

There are many range tables for Tesla shown on the web for different speeds.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Jayflight]

All luxury cars are overpriced and that includes ICE. The largest profits are normally on luxury vehicles, regardless if ICE or EV. And Tesla is considered a luxury vehicle.

BTW, there are some fairly cheap EVs.

The only very expensive part in an EV is the battery. As the batteries become cheaper, the prices of the cars should all drop down as you get even better range.

Often the battery is worth more than half the price of the vehicle.

The two batteries in my Zero SR motorcycle cost $11,500.00. Life expectancy of these batteries are 485,000 miles for the range to drop to 80% of new. But about half those miles if often ridden at very high speeds. Battery life is effected by the load, just as is the charge.

-Don- Reno, NV

In your article as with many stories the meat is normally at the bottom of the page, so to speak.

Keep reading to learn more about the cheapest electric cars on the market today, ordered from the most expensive to the cheapest. We’ve also included a list of EVs that are coming to market soon. Most carry a sub-$50,000 starting price, though there are a few exceptions. If you can take advantage of the federal tax credit, you should be able to get most of the future EVs for under $50,000

You are still way above the proven hybrid market without being sandwiched in a sardine can and with no restrictions of travel across the country in comfort now.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/cheapest-electric-cars

If you want an in city commuter vehicle, there are some pretty fancy road legal golf carts that does the posted speed limits for thousands less than the hybrids too.

Some of the street legal electrics , a step above your traditional golf carts, include trucks for less than a used four seater automobile. And you can add curtains too. And you get preferred parking spaces to boot.

New Electric Golf Carts For Sale 4 & 6 Seat Street Legal Golf Carts

Bintelli’s electric street legal golf carts are built for any adventure you seek! Discover fully loaded American-built rides that keep the fun going all year.

bintellielectricvehicles.com

New Electric Golf Carts For Sale 4 & 6 Seat Street Legal Golf Carts

Bintelli’s electric street legal golf carts are built for any adventure you seek! Discover fully loaded American-built rides that keep the fun going all year.

bintellielectricvehicles.com

This one is set up for a wheel chair.

New Electric Golf Carts For Sale 4 & 6 Seat Street Legal Golf Carts

Bintelli’s electric street legal golf carts are built for any adventure you seek! Discover fully loaded American-built rides that keep the fun going all year.

bintellielectricvehicles.com

 

[Larry N.]

I might have missed it in the article but I didn’t see where they were saying electric vehicles back then had 300 or 400 mile ranges.
And of course back then there was no fast charge network.

Go for a drive in a new EV and see if you think it’s like an EV from a 100 years ago.

I didn't say it was. Your reply is out of context. Read darsben's post #40, to which I was replying, where he claimed EVs were in their infancy. I was just pointing out that that doesn't seem to be the case.

As to saying anything about 300 or 400 mile ranges, I didn't! I provided a QUOTE from the article. Please read more carefully...

 

[Viajeros]

I didn't say it was. Your reply is out of context. Read darsben's post #40, to which I was replying, where he claimed EVs were in their infancy. I was just pointing out that that doesn't seem to be the case.

As to saying anything about 300 or 400 mile ranges, I didn't! I provided a QUOTE from the article. Please read more carefully...

Yah I probably took it out of context but my eye was caught by the “range comparable to today’s EV’s”. Which I suppose is true as I’m sure there are EV’s out there that have short ranges like that. I’m more familiar with the mainstream brands so not up on those. So many brands out there now, many of which are not even available where we are.

Cheers.

 

[Lou Schneider]

If I could stop at a station, have the battery swapped out in 10 minutes and pay a rotable fee (think propane tank) I definitely could do that trip.

The cost to swap out a battery pack would probably be at least as much as getting a tank of gas, eliminating the electric car claim of lower fuel cost. Inventory costs of keeping sufficient numbers of packs in stock to allow instant access to a charged pack, labor to do the swap, infrastructure costs (machinery to lift the pack in and out of the car), charging infrastructure to recharge the old packs, etc. all adds up.

 

[Jayflight]

Just for kicks and a lighter note, Tesla cars are attacking those fossil fuel operated tractor trailers and even police cars.

A Tesla on cruise control smashed into a tractor-trailer in New Jersey, ripping off half its roof. It's the latest Tesla crash regulators are investigating. It's the latest in a long line of NHTSA investigations into Tesla crashes: the regulator said in mid-March it had 23 active investigations into Tesla crashes.

A Tesla on cruise control smashed into a tractor-trailer in New Jersey, ripping off half its roof. It's the latest Tesla crash regulators are investigating.

Still an interesting conversation folks.