05 Titanium MPRV, 40'

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motojavaphil

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As we close in on the full time lifestyle we are seriously looking at various 5r's to do it with.  We came across a new 05 Titanium and were taken with it.  A couple things were tossed around:
1.  The Dealer naturally is looking for MSRP and I am looking at NADA Used!  This thing has sat on his lot for well over a year and may be there another year.  What is a fair approach to this? 
2.  I was told to get a second inverter and I would never have to use a generator to power my a/c.  Is this possible?
3.  Under the water heater there is a small bulge in the exterior skin about the size of a plum.  Any ideas what this is?
4.  Can the dealer or is it a factory thing to install the side deck since this unit does not have that option although it has the door.
5.  Leftover RV's, no one wants them for whatever reason so does that mean beware or is there potential for a good purchase.
6.  Titanium's, a good value or not a good value?  Short of some trim issues and the small bulge the craftsmanship looked very good.     
 

Ned

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1. You can expect to settle for something in between those 2 numbers.? If it's been on his lot that long, he has a lot of carrying cost in it that he will want to recover.? Treat it like a what it is, a 1+ year old, but new unit, and bargain accordingly.? Make your first offer at least 35% below MSRP and work from there.  Be sure to put any things you find below on the conditions of sale so they get fixed before you buy.

2. Don't plan on running any air conditioners from an inverter.? You would need more battery than you can carry and more solar than you have roof if you don't want to use the generator.? The generator is for just such large loads and is cheaper in the long run than a lot of solar panels.

3. Sounds like a delmanination.? Definitely get it fixed before you buy.? Check the rest of the skin closely for other signs of delmanination as well.? It can be very expensive to fix later.

4. What is the side deck?

5. There is a reason that unit has been on the lot for that long.? Look at it carefully, floor plan, options, any other flaws in the construction (like the delmination).

6. I'm not that familiar with the many models of trailers but the Titanium does seem like a decent unit.? Others can give you more objective opinions, however.
 

motojavaphil

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Ned, The side deck is in the rear of the RV, passenger side.  A door lifts up opening the interior.  A deck is pulled from underneath the RV and makes for a nice platform which can be enclosed with bug netting.  I think Titanium is the only one that  has this option.  There is a sliding door on the interior that will close off the deck area as well.  Here is the website:  http://www.glendalerv.com/2005/Titanium/34e39mprv.html.  Thanx, Phil
 

Carl L

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fastphil said:
Ned, The side deck is in the rear of the RV, passenger side. A door lifts up opening the interior. A deck is pulled from underneath the RV and makes for a nice platform which can be enclosed with bug netting. I think Titanium is the only one that has this option. There is a sliding door on the interior that will close off the deck area as well. Here is the website: http://www.glendalerv.com/2005/Titanium/34e39mprv.html. Thanx, Phil

I have seen that at a show.? Gadget.? Never seen one in the wild so to speak at an RV park.

Delamination under the water heater?? Hmm.

 

Ron

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fastphil said:
As we close in on the full time lifestyle we are seriously looking at various 5r's to do it with.? We came across a new 05 Titanium and were taken with it.? A couple things were tossed around:
1.? The Dealer naturally is looking for MSRP and I am looking at NADA Used!? This thing has sat on his lot for well over a year and may be there another year.? What is a fair approach to this??

Personally I would probably be inclined walk away from this one.? Why hasn't it sold?? Was it sold and returned??
2.? I was told to get a second inverter and I would never have to use a generator to power my a/c.? Is this possible?
It would take a Lot of batteries and a pretty hefty inverter to run an airconditions for any length of time.? By the time you got enough batteries you probably would be very close or over your weight limits .? I would not think this would be a feasible approach.? Another reason I would walk away completely from this dealer.? IMHO they appear ready to tell you anything to sell their sales lot queen.
3.? Under the water heater there is a small bulge in the exterior skin about the size of a plum.? Any ideas what this is?
Sounds like there might be delimitation in that area. Damage causing delimitation? could be local to the area of the bulge or damage could be extensive beyond what is visable from the outside. I.E. rotted would in areas not seen.
4.? Can the dealer or is it a factory thing to install the side deck since this unit does not have that option although it has the door.
Maybe they can but I would contact the manufacturer and not trust what this dealer says.
5.? Leftover RV's, no one wants them for whatever reason so does that mean beware or is there potential for a good purchase.
There can be some pretty good deals on left over RV/s.? However, I would be very skeptical of any dealer that suggested I could run my AC just by getting a larger inverter.? Also with a visable bulge that could very well be lamination caused by water damage you could be buying a real headache and a very large repair expense.
6.? Titanium's, a good value or not a good value?? Short of some trim issues and the small bulge the craftsmanship looked very good.? ? ?

I have had no experience with Titanium.? I did see one with the extending deck at a campground in Boise last year.? My impression then was it appeared to be a lot of extra weight for a small deck.

Bottom line when the dealer suggested getting a larger inverter would allow you to run the air conditioner this would really make me question the dealers integrity and I would not even consider doing business with him.? Ask for a demo of an airconditioner being run on an inverter with the same number of batteries installed in the RV for a couple hours or longer.? Won't happen.

 

motojavaphil

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Ron, The inverter thing really caught me off guard.  A good genny seems to be the right way to go.  They claim this rig is new yet some of the seals are hanging loose around the doors and then there is this delamination thing.  We were also told the MSRP is $10,000 higher than what I have seen at other dealer websites, but have not seen the MSRP,  which also raised my concern.  On the positive side if one could get this rig for a nominal amount of money it could be an excellent choice and a good buy if gaskets and delamination are not extensive and can be repaired.  There should be warranty associated with it as well.  I am going to get the MSRP page today or Monday and then see what needs to be done with it.  I am in a situation where I need not buy today but if a good deal comes along I am willing to look so it will be easy to walk away.  My vote has always been towards an Excel due to dealer support at RV Sales in Moriarty NM and the quality of those 5r's but those rigs cannot transport my other passion, motorcycles.  This Titanium seems like a great answer for spouse and self.  I looked it up on RV Consumer and it rated 3.5 stars which makes me want to look at this a little harder although I am leaning towards walking away at this point.  I appreciate your input on this and I will keep you posted.   
 

Carl L

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That inverter thing does seem odd.  Last time I heard an inverter converts 12VDC to 120VAC.  You still have to have a source of 12VDC and that is batteries.  Running an A/C  on batteries implies a LOT of batteries or a very short run on A/C.  Even with a lot of batteries, you are going to have to recharge the rascals and that implies either solar cells, a lot of solar cells, and sunshine, a lot of sunshine, or a generator.

I have seen that deck thing at RV shows.  A marginally useful gadget at best.  At worst, another damn thing to go wrong.
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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I don't think a bulge the size of a plum is delamination - it's too small.  If a piece of skin that small came unglued, I doubt if you would even see it. Is it raised up very much?  1/16 inch? 1/8?  I'm thinking there may be a screw driven in from the other side that has puckered the skin but not quite punctured it. 

Titaniums are Canadian built rigs and the woodcraft and workmanship are generally quite good. I've never met a Titanium owner who wasn't a happy camper, though I'm sure there must be a few disappointed ones somewhere.

Forget the extra inverter thing - it's pure salesman hogwash.  You can run the a/c on just one 2000-2500 watt inverter but you can't carry enough batteries to make it practical.

Sounds like the dealer has created his own Retail Price thatis above the MSRP. That's a fairly common technique that lets them offer an attractive sounding sale price or discount and still get the full MSRP.  Watch such tricksters closely - they probably have other ploys to get more of your money as well.

I'd make an offer of 25-35 percent below the real MSRP and see if he's interested.  Wait him out.  If he doesn't call you back you haven't lost anything.  I wouldn't pay over 75% of the real MSRP for a 1 year old rig, even though new.  An dif youreally like this model, that are plenty of other places to by Titaniums. A local dealer isn't a big issue if you plan to fulltime, since you won't be a local anymore anyway.
 

Ron

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First of all I don't hold much faith in the RV Consumer group ratings.  No real testing is done and IMHO everything they put out is based on speculation.

Second thing is this dealer has already exposed his integrity by suggesting a larger inverter would allow you to run the AC which is just not a fact.  What would be required is a lot of batteries and a way to charge those batteries.  I just could not believe anything this guys says after hearing the AC on a larger inverter story.  If he tells you one flakey story just how much of what he tells you is really believable?

IMHO you would be money ahead to walk away from this guy and look elsewhere for a Titanium.  There is a real good reason this unit is over one year old and not sold yet.  Also remember you most likely would be dealing with this guy to get things fixed he forgot to tell you about. 

If you want to go into this further just ask how large of an inverter is needed and will the batteries in the unit work and if not just how many batteries would be required to run the AC for a few hours.

IMHO WALK AWAY.

 

Carl L

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Boy howdy!  There is an old saw that the first time a dude tries to sell you a bill of goods, he is just practicing.
 

motojavaphil

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We are going to take our current 5r up to Pagosa Springs for a couple weeks and let this thing cool off.  I will get numbers tomorrow and then just sit, fish and contemplate the state of affairs.  There is no rush but again if this is indeed new and we can get it at a good price I will consider it.  What I really need to do is locate a local RV master who could have a looksee at this rig and let me know his thoughts which I will obviously pay him for.  I know enough to get me into trouble but not quite enough to stay out of it!  The inverter story came from the salesman who may have been trying to impress us with his knowledge and dazzle us with his BS.  The numbers towards the sale will tell the story.

RV Roamer, The bulge is about the size of a plum and sticks out about an 1/8th of an inch.  The water heater, which the bulge is below and offset to the right is too high for me to get up there without a ladder and look inside.  A screw or nail could possibly have done that in my judgement now that you mention it.  During my next visit to the dealer I will take a step ladder and look inside the water heater enclosure.  I doubt that will tell me anything since the bulge is below that.  I agree with you that  Titanium is a worthy 5r and I think if I am persistant with this I might come out OK with a very good product.  It really rests with the dealer and his desire to sell.  I know when I market my rig it will be significantly cheaper than the Titanium and will attract more buyers.  This particular unit is billed as a toybox but when you look at toybox buyers they are looking for the onboard gas station and the hardcore garage.  We are looking for something to live in with quality and spaciousness which the Titanium caters to and it just happens to have a spare room a motorcycle can be parked in if that makes sense.  As an SUT it will sit.  I suspect time is on my side, we shall see.    I am not ready to retire yet, 18 more months,  so I am not in the mode of needing a place to live.  Thank you for all of this helpful advice, I will keep you posted.

 

motojavaphil

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Well Ron, the walk away part was right on!  They called and asked me in.  The big boss was there and he advised he could not let me purchase this for less than $68,000.  I asked to see the MSRP and was told Canadian Units do not come with an MSRP.  I remained passive and let him do the talking as there was not much room for me to get a word in.  He told me he is doing me a favor although I may not see it that way.  I have run into two RV Dealers that are not the most honest although the lack of an MSRP and the resistance to my ability to price this unit out surprised me.  Other units are out there and different roads are to be travelled.  Went back to my Idletime and sat in it and had to say this is not such a bad rig.  When the fulltime world comes it will come together very well, no need to force the issue too soon!  Thank all of you for the help.  I bet Titanium would be surprised to know they do not have an MSRP on their rigs!  Phil 
 

Ron

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If a Titanium is the right rig for you then I am sure you will be able to find a more honest dealer that can get you one.  Since you are not pressed to get it now you should have fun looking.
 

Ned

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Good move, Phil.  There are many good units out there, you'll find the right one eventually.
 

motojavaphil

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I want to thank you for giving me the great advice.  That 05 Titanium you pointed out is just about where it should be and we should start dealing from there.  I have talked with wife and we are going to keep the Idletime for another year and just enjoy it.  I have taken good care of it and there is nothing wrong with it.  I will market it next year and try to talk her into an Excel or MH.  We will be in and out of NM a lot after we retire and I need a dealer that I can rely on.  Moriarty RV Sales is that dealer for Excel's and that really is where we need to go if we are going to F/T.  Titanium is a great rig but they have lost a potential customer, as a rig, as well built as it is, is only as good as the dealer behind it.  If they tell me there is no MSRP then they will lie to me about other things of a critical nature after purchase. 

Ron, I know you don't put a lot of stock in RVCG.  I use it as a guide but not the final authority when looking.  It is a tool.  What we really need is a Dealer Guide as there are a lot of people looking and have no clue what they are doing.  We are fortunate we are a member of this forum and could ask the right questions and have folks like yourselves give straight answers.  The decision we make today regarding what we use for F/T will affect us years down the road.  That said, thank all of you and I am going to Colorado and do some hiking, and stay in my Idletime!  Phil 
 

Ron

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Given what you told us about the dealer I think you made an excellent choice.
No I don't have much faith in RVCG and I agree it is a tool but only a tool and should NEVER be taken as gospel.  If I had believed what they put out we could have very well passed up what has been an excellent motorhome made by an excellent manufacturer and possibly got a real looser. Glad we had enough forsight and knowledge not to believe all  their data. You probably get much better sound advice right here from the RV Forum members.  Lot of experience here.

I am sure you will find the perfect rig for you and a good dealer.  One of our members is in Indiana right now getting factory service and they are really taking care of him.  Talking to him he mentioned that the techs have brought up and fixed things that he wasn't even aware of.  We have allways had excellent factory service on the American Eagle too as other members have at their manufacturers service centers.
 

motojavaphil

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Not that I want to bring this to the top again but the fish are biting in Pagosa Springs!  We have decided to walk away from the Titanium at this end.  I did email Glendale and advise them of the problems and they referred me to another dealer.  I also got calls from the dealer here shortly thereafter with a different pricing.  I have not followed up as we feel pretty cold with these folks.  It is amazing what a couple weeks in the boonies will do for you.  I have encountered two dealers with less than honest approaches to sales and techniques that went out years ago or are so transparent an idiot can see through them.  Is this standard throughout the industry?  I know some of you folks have worked for dealers and have an inside track about their techniques.  I will shop with a private party if buying used and if new really look hard and as many dealers as possible.  I hope there is an honest one out there!
 

Karl

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Phil,

Having dealt with car dealers, real estate agents, etc. over the years, I've come to the sad conclusion that "Caveat Emptor" is more true than ever before. It's up to the individual to do their homework and get as much information before the purchase, and that's why the RV Forum is a great place to seek advice. It's unbiased and truthful, and you don't have a salesperson's exagerated claims (or outright lies) to wade through. The one thing that can't be taught however, is how to bargain for your best price. That's where experience and the ability to walk away from a deal on that 'dream machine' comes into play. Humans are, well, human, and too often our hearts overshadow our brains.

In your case, the new pricing from your dealer tells me that he can't be trusted, and service after the sale is also suspect. Smart decision to walk away!
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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Sadly, standards of professionalism are quite low in RV dealerships. Many are small businesses and the salesman are often inexperienced (in boit Rvs and in sales) and mostly trying to make a buck. A sale is a big boost in their income and they will mostly say anything to make it.  Even in the larger dealerships that profess to have some business conduct standards, there are often misconceptions and misunderstandings all the way around. As Karl says, "Caveat Emptor" is the rule of the day. You have to do your homework and then make sure every "i" & "t" is properly marked when the deal is made. Tedious, but that's the way it is.  We are talking about big purchases here, with a lot at stake on both sides. Don't assume anything.

I'm not afraid to buy from dealers, but I am prepared for a lengthy war of wills when I do so. Most of them will work with you, but its often a struggle to get the attention of the right people to get things done properly. The salesman is rarely much real help - he/she figures her job is done when you sign a sales order. Ask the sales person to introduce you to whoever (service manager, sales manager, owner, etc) and explain to them your expectations for walkthoughs, delivery, etc. and get their agreement before the deal is done.
 
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