1991 Beaver Contessa

[garyb1st]

Looked at this coach today. It's in decent shape but with a price so low I'm wondering if it has undisclosed issues.  I'm looking for any information good or bad on this or similar vintage coaches. It has 69,000 miles on a CAT 3116 with 250 HP. 

The good... newer tires on rear, OK on front, new refrigerator, new toilet, water pump and filter.

The bad...clear coat is peeling off in sheets with many large areas that have bubbles and will likely peel off with little more than a gentle brushing.

The coach has only been driven about 10,000 miles since the current owners purchased it 10 years ago.  Claimed fuel economy average is 6 mpg.  Seems low.

Dash air and front roof a/c not working.

Fuel gauge does not work.

There are a few other minor things but all in all a good solid coach. 

At the asking price I think I could put $15-20,000 into it and sell it for my total investment.

A few questions.

Not sure of the wheelbase.  Just looking at it and pacing it off, I'd say 228 which would put the ratio at approximately 52%.   

Per the owner, the coach is under powered.  Can the 3116 engine HP be increased?

What is the towing capacity for early 1990 pushers? 

All comments appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[captsteve1]

Just from the things you say are wrong with it, it had better be cheap. You didn't state a price but I looked at PPL and they have a 1997 beaver selling for 25k.

Avg. Retail on the Contessa is $9650.00 per NADA  I'm just not seeing the value of putting any time or money into it...

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

So concern is that it could easily turn into a money pit. Putting $15k-20k in it would be most unwise unless you are getting it for $1.00 - you will never, ever get that much back, even though any Beaver is a lovely coach.

Upgrading the hp on a 3116 would be another expensive proposition - certainly more than $5000 and probably $10k, assuming it is possible at all.

6 mpg doesn't sound low to me - not at all unusual for a large coach with an old style diesel. I've heard of some that did 4-5.

Go to PPL and buy the 97 Beaver with the $25k asking price. You can probably get it for $20k and have a newer coach with less risk..

 

[zmotorsports]

Are you certain about it having a 3116 CAT.  We had a 1991 Beaver Contessa with the 300hp 3208 CAT.  I didn't think they put the inline 6 cylinder engine in the Contessa until 1992 but I could be wrong. 

If you have the 228" wheelbase it must be the 38 1/2' coach rather than the 36' version.

We had ours for 7 years and put 65k miles on it in that time.  It had 129k on the odometer when we sold it.  We also towed a 24; enclosed trailer with sand toys around most of the western U.S.  It was no ball of fire but it ran okay.  I had also advanced the fuel pump a few degrees which helped a little but not a real lot.  I think it would have been a little better with the 6-speed Allison rather than the MT654 4-speed.

The woodwork was absolutley amazing inside and was a very well built coach.

Mike.

 

[garyb1st]

So concern is that it could easily turn into a money pit. Putting $15k-20k in it would be most unwise unless you are getting it for $1.00 - you will never, ever get that much back, even though any Beaver is a lovely coach.

The PPL coach is newer and that may be a plus.  But it, as well as any other older coach, could also require extensive costly repairs.  The asking price on this coach is $8,000.  That, and the fact that I like the looks of the vintage coaches, is the only reason I'm considering it.   

 

[garyb1st]

Are you certain about it having a 3116 CAT.  We had a 1991 Beaver Contessa with the 300hp 3208 CAT.  I didn't think they put the inline 6 cylinder engine in the Contessa until 1992 but I could be wrong.

 
Just talked to the owner, it is in fact a 1990.  I saw the metal tag on next to the door but forgot to mention it. 

If you have the 228" wheelbase it must be the 38 1/2' coach rather than the 36' version.

  I just walked it off so it may be less. 

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

If you plan to fix it up and keep it several years, it might be worth putting in $8k in addition to the purchase price, but I would not spend that and expect to sell in a year.

Can you deal with the clear coat problem yourself? Seems way too expensive to pay somebody for that.

 

[zmotorsports]

We too fought or rather chased the peeling clearcoat on our coach.  I had repainted the front and rear end caps when we first purchased it and then the following year the top ridges of where the walls met the roof.  The year before we sold it I had to re-clear almost 1/2 the passenger side, from the door to the rear cap due to peeling off in large pieces.

Ours looked almost new when we sold it in 2007 and we ended up getting $47k out of it.  We loved the coach and I kept it in pristine condition both mechanically and cosmetically .  Actually I kind of liked all of the attention it got when we traveled due to its' uniqueness.  We would have many people ask about it and comment on its condition. 

I would be a little concerned about its long term durability unless the previous owner really went above and beyond taking care of it.

Mike. 

 

[captsteve1]

The price is square in the middle of NADA so anything you put in it will be just for your enjoyment. Don't expect any return on your money.

That being said. If it talks to you and you are good with all that is needed to get it in shape, go for it. BUT, expect a lot more items to pop up that will need attention.

 

[garyb1st]

If you plan to fix it up and keep it several years, it might be worth putting in $8k in addition to the purchase price, but I would not spend that and expect to sell in a year.

    That's kinda where I'm at. 

Can you deal with the clear coat problem yourself? Seems way too expensive to pay somebody for that.

I've read a few diy posts on the subject and would attempt a self repair.  Even if my attempt was totally obvious, it would be better than sheets of clear coat blowing in the wind. 

 

[garyb1st]

I would be a little concerned about its long term durability unless the previous owner really went above and beyond taking care of it.
Mike. 

Agree, I'll be looking for service records.  If he can't produce them or they're not adequate, I'll keep looking. 

 

[garyb1st]

The price is square in the middle of NADA so anything you put in it will be just for your enjoyment. Don't expect any return on your money.

That being said. If it talks to you and you are good with all that is needed to get it in shape, go for it. BUT, expect a lot more items to pop up that will need attention.

Steve, what talks to me is $8,000.  If i buy it and face a major repair right out of the box, I can walk and I've lost $8,000.  I can live with that.  However, if I buy a used motorhome for $50 or 60K and face a major repair, I can't walk.  That's the situation I want to avoid.  If we like having a motorhome and think it's going to be a major part of our lifestyle, we look for a newer one that is warrantable, has two slides and possibly a bit longer. 

 

[captsteve1]

For your line of thinking, I think you have a winner! Just check it carefully and maybe avoid some surprises. I would also haggle it down a bit. The clear coat issue will scare off a lot of prospective buyers, use it as your ace in the hole.

You have been on here long enough to know what to look for, good luck and happy camping!!!

 

[ArdraF]

Hi Gary!

I wonder about an average of only 1,000 miles driven per year over a ten year period.  It's been sitting - a lot!  What about all those things like rubber hoses?  Is it located in the desert where things dry out?  Has it been stored outside?  One or both of those might account for the peeling clear coat unless it was an issue with all the Beavers of that era.  With the things that are not working, most of which sound repairable, you would be wise to walk if the owner can't produce maintenance records.  Does the owner give any indication of why he hasn't fixed some of the things?  If he's been ill I could understand it, but most people want to fix things when getting ready to sell an RV so they can get a good price for it.

ArdraF

 

[garyb1st]

Hi Ardra, all good points and will try to minimize surprises.  I like doing things myself or at least trying.  Unfortunately I have no experience with diesel engines.  So I'm also looking at this as a learning experience.  Remember I'm still not sure RVing is where I want to spend a big chunk of my money and time.  The Beaver or a similar coach will allow me the opportunity to explore both the lifestyle and determine if I have the patients to deal with mechanical breakdown and all the other things that come with the package.  By the way, I'm not known for my patients so this will be quite interesting.   

As an aside, we saw a nice 2000 Windsor a few weeks ago.  I recall you had one and loved it.  Garage kept it's entire life and priced right.  But it was huge.  Nearly 40 feet and likely not going to fit in some state and local parks which is where we like to stay. 

Hope you and Jerry are doing well. 

 

[Seilerbird]

I am a huge fan of Beavers, but I would not touch that thing with a ten foot pole. Even if he tried to give it to me. There are way too many hidden problems with a coach used that little. Cheaper is not always a bargain with a used RV. If it is not in great shape when you buy it you will be spending the rest of your life and money trying to make it right.

At the asking price I think I could put $15-20,000 into it and sell it for my total investment.

RVs are not an investment. I can't imagine that you could ever sell a 1990 Beaver for $28k even if it was in perfect condition.

 

[garyb1st]

I am a huge fan of Beavers, but I would not touch that thing with a ten foot pole. Even if he tried to give it to me. There are way too many hidden problems with a coach used that little. Cheaper is not always a bargain with a used RV. If it is not in great shape when you buy it you will be spending the rest of your life and money trying to make it right.
RVs are not an investment. I can't imagine that you could ever sell a 1990 Beaver for $28k even if it was in perfect condition.

Hi Tom, that's a big one.  I think about you every time I look at one of these older coaches.  I know you've owned a few and I'd like to pick your brain some time to better understand your method.  You seem to have pretty good luck. 

I don't consider any RV an investment.  The cost of this Beaver in 1990 was nearly as much as my current home which I bought in 1991.  Today my home is worth twice what I paid.  Not bad considering the depressed market.  The Beaver is worth less than 5%.  To me, any RV is a huge money pit.  Even a new one.  But, as they say, you can't take it with you. 

 

[Seilerbird]

I know you've owned a few and I'd like to pick your brain some time to better understand your method.  You seem to have pretty good luck. 

I have been camping and RVing for well over 40 years so I have a really good idea of what works for me and what doesn't. If you are new to RVing it can be pretty overwhelming trying to sort through all the options. Are you new? If so you should rent an RV for a few weekends. It really helps to visit a lot of dealers, test drive a lot of rigs and talk to a lot of people who do not happen to sell RVs for a living. They will lie to their own mother to sell a rig.

The most important thing to me is to have an infinite amount of patience. The average person around here seems to spend at least three months shopping before pulling the trigger. If you and you wife are not completely in love with a rig then do not buy it. When I am shopping I spend at least an hour a day online reading ads on eBay and Craigslist. Looking at lots of photos and reading lots of specs. That way when you see a rig in the real world you will have a much better idea of what to look for.

 

[Seilerbird]

Here is one I would take a serious look at if I were you:

http://rvs.oodle.com/detail/1996-beaver-monterey-motorhome/3370842717-pittsburgh-pa/?cm_mmc=OODLE_PREVIEWwwwNANA

 

[garyb1st]

Tom, we're not new.  We've had a trailer for almost 5 years and have learned a lot.  We've been to Quartzsite twice with the RV Forum and you've been there both times.  I'm the older guy with the gray pony tail.  My first and only experience with diesels is my currennt truck, a 2005 F250 with the 6.0 engine.  It's been in the shop 6 or more times with major repairs.  So I've done a bit of research on diesels.  I know they need to be run.  That's what I'm going to discuss with the owner of the Contessa before anything else. 

I'm curious as to why you suggest I look at the 1996 Beaver that you linked.  It's a long way from Los Angeles and I wouldn't consider an RV I couldn't personally inspect.  So when you say take a serious look, I'm assuming you're speaking figuratively.  But what is your criterion for checking out an RV?  I'd like to buy locally.  L.A. is a big market so there's a lot to look at.  If I don't find one here before long, we're probably wait until the fall and drive to PPL Houston where I'm sure we'll find something.