2001 fleetwood Bounder Strange Starting issue F53

[smunger]

Hello

I need help

I have a 2001 fleetwood Bounder 34D with Ford F53 chassis. V10 gas engine

Problem description: the motor do not crank at all. but it is intermittent. sometime it start and when it start it will start multiple time. when not use for a few days it stop working

troubleshooting so far:
1- I put 12 V on the control pin of the starter relay and the motor start. So the starter and the relay is not the problem
2- I checked at the control wire, when switching to START Voltage drop to around 1 Volt. So problem is between switch and relay Control wire
3- I looked at the switch and when going to START I get over 12V solid. so there is a drop in the voltage somewhere or an open.
4 -I checked after the anti-start system and the 12 V goes through the anti-start system. so anti-start eliminated.
5- I checked the DIGITAL TRANSMISSION RANGE (DTR) SENSOR and I have 0 ohm between the pins so not a DTR issue.
6- while troubleshooting today I decided to pull the connector off the Leveling Jack Control Module. (make is Power Gear, model 500455R2) strangely the Motor started when going to START. but I don't know if it is the issue as after plugging back the connector, the motor started again. now it is starting every time, so I will have to wait until it does not start again to troubleshoot
7- also this is wort mentioning, if the jack are out, SOMETIME, not all the time, when trying to start by turning the ignition switch to START the jack retract.


some questions:
1- on the attached wiring diagram, it say "Crank Enable supply by body builder", what does that mean
2- could a leveling system Power Gear 500457S control module cause my 12 volt to dissipate??
3- As anyone seen this before??

 

[Henry J Fate]

First thought is a bad starter. Starters will go bad over time. I have seen them intermittent, crank slowly with good voltage and a none working starter work with a good whack to the casing. The starter is probably original which is about 20 years old. Be sure you have a good starter and the next time it will not start, take a hammer and moderately hit the starter casing to see if that changes anything.

I am not sure how the levelling system is wired on your Bounder but it is quite possible that the levelling system is preventing engine start as indicated by resetting the connector you mentioned. Hopefully another member here will have specific knowledge of your levelling system.

Posting the make, model and control panel of the levelling system will help.

 

[Arch Hoagland]

How old is the starting battery and is it FULLY charged?

Have the starting battery connections been cleaned recently?

 

[smunger]

Battery brand new, like I said when jumping the relay the RV start all the time so, it is not a battery nor a starter issue

 

[Lou Schneider]

The difference is when you jumper the solenoid to the large battery terminal on the starter you're providing full 12 volts directly to the solenoid.

When you turn the ignition key the voltage has to go from the battery to the ignition switch, then back to the solenoid with a lot of wire in between.

What kind of voltage do you get on the solenoid when someone turns the key to "start"?

 

[smunger]

my problem is between the ignition switch and the relay. Like I mention, I only get 1.6V at the relay CTRL wire but get 13.3 volt going out of the ignition switch. So I'm loosing in between. but can not find where

 

[Henry J Fate]

I don't know whether you have this PowerGear manual or not but it may help.

Page 17 appears to cover wiring that may be compatible to your levelling system.

There are wiring options to use the neutral safety switch Pins #2 and #6 of the Main Power Harness Connector

There is an option for the Park brake Pin #1 on the same connector

The builder could use those wiring options different ways.

Good Luck

https://f01.justanswer.com/VS2jIaGU/PowerGear.pdf

 

[smunger]

Thanks Henry

 

[eric goatee]

Hi Smunger, I have the same problem on my 2001 33r bounder. It was giving me starting problems occasionally, I would reset the brake and levelers and it would start. Now I'm dead in the water. I replaced the battery, starter and checked the fluids in the leveling system. Still just a clicking at the starter. Levelers will work in aux on the ignition and all dash power is there, just will not crank the motor over ? I agree there is a problem somewhere between the levelers, brake and ignition. I'm to the point that I'm just going to start changing parts till I find it.

 

[uchu]

Hi Smunger, I have the same problem on my 2001 33r bounder. It was giving me starting problems occasionally, I would reset the brake and levelers and it would start. Now I'm dead in the water. I replaced the battery, starter and checked the fluids in the leveling system. Still just a clicking at the starter. Levelers will work in aux on the ignition and all dash power is there, just will not crank the motor over ? I agree there is a problem somewhere between the levelers, brake and ignition. I'm to the point that I'm just going to start changing parts till I find it.

Welcome to the forum. The OP has not visited the forum since 2019, shortly after his last post.

I'd suggest starting a new thread.

 

[John From Detroit]

Ok one possible thing many CAR type mechanics do not think of.

Pilot relays.. Yup pilot relays
What is a pilot relay?
GM uses them on some cars (My daughter's first decent car had a recall. they installed a pilot relay)

The starger solenoid on big engines is also BIG. it sucks major current and on cars such as my daughters (not that big) it was causing fires (Opps) as it overloaded the ignation switch and wiring so they put in a pilot relay

Switch----Pilot relay----Starter solenoid

On my Workhorse (Which had a GM engine) there was a pilot relay.. thankfully I knew where it was becaude it failed.. I removed it... cleaned the points.. re-assembled it re-installed it VAROOM.

The symptoms
I turned the key and I heard a sharp CLICK, not a CLUNK but a CLICK.

(Click is the small pilot relay CLUNK is the starter solenoid)

 

[eric goatee]

Outstanding John! , I have a new direction. I appreciate your help. I will keep you up to date on what happens. >

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Now I'm dead in the water. I replaced the battery, starter and checked the fluids in the leveling system. Still just a clicking at the starter.

If your starter is clicking, then you do NOT have a problem with the interlock to the levelers or brake or other "house" systems. The starter is trying to crank but has insufficient voltage to engage the starter bendix spring/gear. Most likely a corroded connection somewhere between chassis battery and starter.

 

[eric goatee]

Thank you Gary, I will be following wires later tonight. Appreciate the help.

 

[eric goatee]

Hi John And Gary,
You guys are awesome. I changed the relay and ignition solenoid, a whole $30.00 in parts and the beast started up like it never had a problem. I did a little drifting in my back yard and parked it. I really appreciate your help, Thank you very much.

 

[cachoyali]

Thanks Henry

Hi Smunger, I have 2001 dolphin 5350 with that very problem, Its not the starter, battery, relay or solenoide, I think signal get lost in whatever "crank enable fits by supplier " is, and I can not find it. I replaced everything included stop light switch and neutral safety switch and still no signal to small lead on starter solenoide, for naw I have a direct wire to it, but if you found where the " crank enable by supplier" is please, please let me know, I am going crazy with this. Thank you.