2006 Ford E-450, 50k miles - replace shocks and steering damper?

[StillRV]

I have my RV in the shop for an alignment and exhaust work. It's a 2006 Winnebago, 25ft, on a Ford E-450 chassis. They called said there is a lot of sway when turning and I should consider replacing the shocks. I don't think the shocks are leaking and the chassis only has 50k miles on it. Should I replace the shocks? I think they are more about dampening bumps, not about leaning? The RV doesn't bounce up and down like my past cars have done when their shocks were worn out.

They said I should consider replacing the steering damper to improve the steering. Might the steering damper need replaced after 50k miles / 16 years?

They also said the carrier bearing has about .75 inch of play in it and I should consider replacing it. I have no idea what this part does (I've googled it, it's related to the drive shaft) and if I'd notice a difference if it was replaced? Sounds like a worn one can contribute to some "rumble" when going down the road?

I purchase this RV last fall, and have only driven it maybe 50 miles, so I don't really know what it's supposed to feel like regarding the steering damper and the shocks and the vibrations when going down the road. So I seek advice here.

I do notice that the steering wheel does not recenter easily after a turn, I hope the alignment will help with that. And I do have to make a lot of movements with the steering wheel to keep it centered in my lane. Maybe the new steering damper would help with that?

Thanks

 

[Kodiak34SS]

Yes, yes, and yes.

Shocks lose their ability to dampen over time. Slow degradation is possible and 16 years and 50k miles is a good run on a vehicle that is carrying close to its GVW. Remember, this is a van/truck carrying weight, not a little passenger car. None of the shocks on my rig were blown or leaking, but they were worn. I replaced them with a cheap, fleet-grade shock and it provided a noticeable improvement.

A carrier bearing for a driveshaft is a safety item and should be replaced. On a GM chassis mine also failed prematurely. It can be expensive to do and if there are more than one, do 'em all at the same time and also check u-joints in the driveshaft. It's a great time to replace those while everything is pulled apart.

If the steering damper hasn't been done, it's just a single shock absorber and may improve on-center steering. Worn dampers are less effective against bump steer.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Shocks won't fix lean. That being said trucks are a lot harder on shocks than cars, so 50k/16 years it isn't "too soon". Mine still has the stock steering damper (did shocks last year) and I'm toying with the idea of changing it mid-season so driving it is fresh in my mind, and if there's any direct benefit.

Guessing 3/4" play is lateral shaft movement due to bushing deflection. This is pretty extreme and if true, it's beyond shot. I had that happen with a pickup, and the time from sensing vibration to point of destruction isn't very long. You have to drop the driveshaft to replace the bearing so on that list I would add greasing the ujoints, or new ones if they're not greasable. Same for the spline shaft.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Kirk]

Some good points thus far. I would be very surprised if your RV doesn't need shocks after 16 years. If it has no steering damper of any kind, that too would be a very good addition. There are numerous different ones and while the shock absorber type cam be good, I'd look at other types too such as the Steer Safe or something similar to help with steering centering. With a 16 year old RV that leans to one side, I would have the suspension checked by a qualified shop before I spent a lot of money and also before you have the alignment done. If it is aligned and not level, when you level it that will throw the alignment off at least a little bit. Leaning could be due to weight distribution issues, either now or in the way that the former owners had it loaded. It would be very helpful if you got it weighed but you also need to know the side to side weight as that may well play a part in the leaning. It sounds like you have problems other than the need for shocks, and possibly more serious ones.

 

[oldryder1]

I have had several of the Ford trucks for my business and a Winnie Aspect on the same chassis. In my experience at 75,000 miles they need a ball joints and shocks even in a truck only a year or two old so yours needing shocks isn't surprising. If you don't need ball joints now plan on it 25,000 miles down the road. Watch for irregular front tire wear which is also on problem on the Fords. The last 2 trucks I bought were Chevy just to get away from what I consider poor service life from the front suspension components. (It's a design issue, not part quality.)

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Shocks won't do anything for lean but at age 16 and 50k miles they are probably due for replacement as preventive maintenance. But if your rig isn't bouncing (porpoising) over bumps, then the old shocks are probably still working ok.

Steering dampers aren't real critical on the E450, but again you should expect that age & mileage has taken its toll. A new one, or a more sophisticated damper such as Kirk suggests, would provide some modest improvement. So would adding a track bar (panhard rod).

I agree with Mark re the carrier bearing. It's time.

 

[CharlesinGA]

If it is a 2006 WBO then it is almost certainly on a 2005 chassis. Make sure they either use the chassis ViN for parts or know exactly what year it is.

You have a two piece drive shaft and the carrier bearing is in the middle. The shaft from the transmission to the bearing is supported by the bearing and does not move up and down with the axle. The aft part of the driveshaft moves up and down as the axle moves. The carrier bearing is mounted in a large rubber isolator.

Drive Shaft Center Support Bearing - 2005-2017 Ford E450 Super Duty - SKF

The bearing could be fine, but the rubber deteriorated and that is what is allowing 3/4 inch of up and down movement, but its an assembly. If they replace it, INSIST that they paint mark the drive shaft flange to the differential flange, and also paint stripe both sections of the drive shaft, so that it is all assembled EXACTLY as it was from the factory (you have to take the front and rear sections apart to install the bearing.) If this is not done, you can have all kinds of vibration. I was reading just last nite on a RAM truck forum about someone having the carrier bearing assembly replaced and had a lot of vibration, most likely due to mis assembly of the parts.

You need to be there for them to show you the markings both BEFORE and AFTER, and also show you where the play is. I'm betting if there is play, its in the rubber around the bearing. This is common on two piece drive shaft vehicles.

As far as shocks, on my Winnebago View MH (early sprinter chassis) It already had a Roadmaster rear anti sway bar to replace the thin Mercedes one, before I bought it but it still did a number going in and out of gas stations, driveways, etc. So at 20K total miles I installed new Koni Red adjustable shocks in the rear, set full stiff and it made a huge difference. I eventually replaced the front struts with Koni Reds also but they made very little difference. On your Ford, I would replace all of the shocks with the most heavy duty ones available. Many people say Bilstein, I've never tried them.

On my Ram truck I installed new shocks because the old ones were leaking and totally worn out. I installed KYB Mono Max thinking that was enough, but when pulling the trailer I found it needed more shock (front end weighs 4060 lbs on that RAM). I installed Rancho RS9000XL series on the front and the difference in driving was huge (I have not pulled the trailer yet) and I was going to leave the KYB shocks on the rear, but I had the bed off a couple of weeks ago installing an in tank fuel pump (Genuine Mopar mod to replace the weak Cummins lift pump), and I am standing there staring at the shocks thinking how easy it would be to install them with the bed off, so I ordered them and installed them. While principally an off road shock, they are also designed for any heavy duty use such as towing or other heavy loads. The RS5000XL is basically the same shock but with no adjustment, the valving set for the equivalent of "5" on the RS9000XL's nine settings

RS9000™XL Shock Absorber

NOTE: I'm not seeing any listings for the E series chassis, a phone call to Rancho would verify if they have something that would fit.

There is a fellow on another forum named Ron Dittmer who has a Phoenix Cruiser on an E350 chassis and he is an extremely oriented detail person. He has a bunch of photos on Flicker and here is his shocks. Ron also has a Roadmaster front and rear anti sway bars, a panhard rod on the rear, helps to stop side to side wiggle of the rear end. There is a Safe T Plus Precision Steering Control installed also which is a very large steering damper, which must be properly adjusted to keep the vehicle from pulling to one side.

One last thing. On the alignment you want lots more caster than Ford specs out. These chassis' were designed to mount a U-haul box body and drive around town, they are not set up for the road, from the factory. The caster on the front wheels will probably be about +2° and the shop, if they don't know what they are doing will tell you that there is nothing more they can do, or that you don't need more. There are eccentric bushings for the upper ball joints that will allow for +4.5-5° caster and this will improve the handling on the road tremendously. The MH will track straight and drive one handed and you won't be white knuckling the whole time.

The eccentric bushings are aftermarket and available from Moog and several other sources.

The centering after a turn will be dramatically improved after the caster is increased to the +4.5-5° range and the steering damper will also help hold center, when properly adjusted.

Charles

 

[StillRV]

Thanks for all the responses.

Definitely not porpoising. I'm going to keep the shocks for now.

They only had time to do the exhaust work at this appointment, so I have not had any other work done yet. They gave me their free inspection report when I picked it up, and it had no mention of the carrier bearing or shocks or steering damper. But when the tech first called me, he did mention those things. Shrug. I might try to go check the bearing myself to see if it has play.

I am hoping the alignment will fix the steering (vague in the middle, doesn't return to center by itself after a turn), but I think you are all right I need to find a shop that knows about caster on E-450 motorhomes.

I would think a well-working damper would make it even harder to return to center. I'm not talking about something like a Steer Safe, just a standard damper. Wouldn't it resist moving, therefore making it harder to return to center after a 90 degree turn?

The Steer Safe sounds like too much trouble, I'm afraid I'd always be dealing with trying to get it centered.

 

[Kirk]

An alignment certainly can't hurt. Have you considered getting it weighed so that you know how that compares to the manufacturer's weight ratings? I would do that before getting the alignment or anything else. You may want to visit an empty parking lot and do some testing of your own by weaving with it to see about sway and such. A steering damper might help with return to center, depending on what type you get. Most of them have a neutral point that should be where the travel is straight down the road. It is possible that you have some problems in the front end such as ball joints, tie rods, and such so take a close look at those also. Tires could also be an issue either in proper tire selection, inflation, or possibly condition. Check the date codes and weight ratings to be sure that they are proper.

 

[StillRV]

An alignment certainly can't hurt. Have you considered getting it weighed so that you know how that compares to the manufacturer's weight ratings? I would do that before getting the alignment or anything else. You may want to visit an empty parking lot and do some testing of your own by weaving with it to see about sway and such. A steering damper might help with return to center, depending on what type you get. Most of them have a neutral point that should be where the travel is straight down the road. It is possible that you have some problems in the front end such as ball joints, tie rods, and such so take a close look at those also. Tires could also be an issue either in proper tire selection, inflation, or possibly condition. Check the date codes and weight ratings to be sure that they are proper.

I would like to weigh it eventually, but that has been low on my TODO list. It's only a 25 footer, on an E-450 Chassis, and we travel with only 1-2 people, so I am pretty sure we are well under weight. They make much longer motorhomes on this same Chassis.

I haven't had it on the highway since I bought it late last summer. This week when driving in the city, I don't notice any concerning leaning when taking 90 degree turns, even at normal-car-speed. When quickly changing lanes, I can feel the frame moving first and then the heavy RV body following. This is probably what a panhard rod solves, but this movement doesn't bother me right now.

My main concern is the steering. I don't feel any looseness, like work parts (I have driven vehicles with this problem before, it doesn't feel like that). But moving the steering wheel 5 inches or so back and forth while driving down the road results in zero direction change, no sway or anything. Very different from my car. But maybe this is normal. This vagueness causes me to be constantly correcting while on a curvy road or anything like that. I am sure this will be fatiguing on long drives. I have read that more caster can solve this.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

But moving the steering wheel 5 inches or so back and forth while driving down the road results in zero direction change, no sway or anything. Very different from my car. But maybe this is normal. This vagueness causes me to be constantly correcting while on a curvy road or anything like that. I am sure this will be fatiguing on long drives. I have read that more caster can solve this.

Caster is what gives the return-to-center action after a turn. It also keeps the front wheels aligned with the direction the vehicle is currently traveling. I don't think it will have any effect at all on vague or sloppy steering. If the wheels don't react to steering wheel input, there must be mechanical slop in the steering mechanism, e.g. worn steering gear.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Or, shot pitman arm, arm follower, tie rod ends, on and on. Any alignment shop will zero in on these pretty quickly. You can throw a whole lotta money making it "tight" however. With the ford trucks I've had I learned to live with it.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The Ford truck front end isn't known for tight steering, so I'd say 3/4"-1" of steering wheel slop can be considered normal. It ain't no sports car or even a family sedan! But 5"??? That's a huge amount, even if 2.5" to either side! Slop will likely differ with the engine running (power steering active) than with engine off, so check both.

I agree with Mark - most any alignment shop would quickly zero in on work mechanical components. Yet nothing is shown in the report, despite the techs earlier comments. That ought to be clarified with the shop manager.

 

[StillRV]

The Ford truck front end isn't known for tight steering, so I'd say 3/4"-1" of steering wheel slop can be considered normal. It ain't no sports car or even a family sedan! But 5"??? That's a huge amount, even if 2.5" to either side! Slop will likely differ with the engine running (power steering active) than with engine off, so check both.

It feels like 5", but I wasn't taking measurements. And yes I meant total wiggle room, so 2.5" to either side.

My RV shop was just going to farm out the alignment to another shop anyway, so I think I'll cancel that appointment and find a front end specialist.

 

[Kirk]

find a front end specialist.

That is a very good idea. In all of my years of RVing I can only recall 2 RV repair shops that had the equipment to do an alignment or much else on the chassis. One of those was in California and the best one in Washington.

While there, you might want to ask them to go completely over the suspension and even do a test drive.