5th Wheel Suggestions?

[Stormfather]

I have been full-timing for a few months now with a 30 foot travel trailer. Now that I've gotten a feel for it, I have been able to adjust my expectations and understanding of how everything works. Part of this has led me to the conclusion that life would probably be more comfortable if I were using a 5th wheel instead of a travel trailer, but some of the criteria I have in mind are difficult to search for on the standard RV searching sites.

I would like to find a (used) 5th wheel that is a toy hauler with a separated garage. I really like the idea of a big open space for a motorcycle, as well as a potential office space, since I work remote during the weekdays. Maybe even put a full-sized washer and dryer in there so I don't have to keep getting quarters for campground laundry services. But I don't want this space to be shared with the kitchen/living space, hence the desire for it to be separated off.

I would also like to keep the length of the 5th wheel down as much as possible, because I don't want to greatly increase the overall combined vehicle length when towing from what I currently have. A couple extra feet wouldn't be that big of a deal though. I would guess this means that the 5th wheel can probably go up to around 36 feet (as opposed to my current 30 foot travel trailer).

The combination of a somewhat shorter 5th wheel with the separated garage space is what has been so difficult for me to find. So far, these are the few models I've been able to find that do more or less fit what I'm looking for:

• Forest River VENGEANCE 306V
• Keystone FUZION 322
• Dutchmen VOLTAGE 3200
• Prime Time SPARTAN 3210
• Keystone CARBON 347
• Keystone MOUNTAINEER 357THT
• Keystone IMPACT 311
• Palomino PUMA UNLEASHED 351 THSS
• Dutchmen Voltage Triton 3451

Unfortunately, there aren't many used listings for these models out there (and what listings there are tend to be really far away from me). Additionally, it would be nice if I could find something a bit newer (say, 2018 or later), and most of these are older than the 2014 I currently have. The age isn't a deal breaker, but I do want something that still has a long life ahead of it.

Beyond that, I'm not overly picky in what I need. It's just me and the dog, so I don't need a lot of sleeping space or anything like that.

If anyone has any suggestions for something else to include in my searches, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Edit: here's the 5th wheel towing capacity specs on the truck that I have:

 

[Bearcatrp]

Stay away from keystone unless it’s before 2017. You’re probably looking at a minimum 38 to 40 foot for what you want. Been considering a toy hauler if I decide to upgrade again. Hope you have at least a 1 ton dually diesel engine truck to pull that beast. Why not a drivable toy hauler? Been seeing more of them on the road this year. Good luck on your search. Let us know what you get into.

 

[Stormfather]

@Bearcatrp thanks for the advice. Do you mind if I ask some clarifying questions?

Stay away from keystone unless it’s before 2017.

Did something change with Keystone in 2017 that would cause you to say that?

You’re probably looking at a minimum 38 to 40 foot for what you want.

Does "what want" in this statement include the desire not to greatly increase the overall combined vehicle length when towing? I don't know specifically how much of that 38-40 feet would be overlapping with the bed of the truck, but it seems like that would be a bit much. Especially since some of the models I have already found and listed above were shorter than that.

Hope you have at least a 1 ton dually diesel engine truck to pull that beast.

I don't, and that is information I forgot to include in my original post. I will go back and edit that after this. What I do have is a 2013 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD diesel. The specs for it say that it can tow up to 17,500 lbs (for a 5th wheel):

Why not a drivable toy hauler?

This was something I considered a lot before I started full-timing in the first place. Ultimately I decided that it was better to have a towable RV, so that:

1. I don't have to worry about towing a more normal vehicle behind the hypothetical motorhome
2. If the engine dies in a motorhome, I wouldn't have anywhere to stay while it's in the shop getting worked on. If the engine dies in the truck, I can at least have somewhere to stay while it's in the shop.
3. It's much easier to get gas with just the truck than it would be if I had to drive a whole RV into the gas station. There have already been many cases where the cheapest gas around has been a place where an RV wouldn't fit, or at least wouldn't fit without some extreme maneuvering.

 

[CharlesinGA]

Towing capacity MEANS NOTHING. What is important is payload in the truck and rear axle weight capacity, and those will be the first numbers you exceed. Unless you are looking at a smallish 5th wheel, you are going to want a 350/3500 dually for a comfortable towing experience.

My off the cuff guess is you will need to limit your search to a 10,000 to 12,000 lb GVWR trailer for your current truck.

Charles

 

[Laura & Charles]

You may want to rethink some of this:

1. I don't have to worry about towing a more normal vehicle behind the hypothetical motorhome
2. If the engine dies in a motorhome, I wouldn't have anywhere to stay while it's in the shop getting worked on. If the engine dies in the truck, I can at least have somewhere to stay while it's in the shop.
3. It's much easier to get gas with just the truck than it would be if I had to drive a whole RV into the gas station. There have already been many cases where the cheapest gas around has been a place where an RV wouldn't fit, or at least wouldn't fit without some extreme maneuvering.

1. You’re already towing. Pretty sure you can hook up a car faster/easier than a fiver.

2. For chassis work, we’ve only had to leave the coach for multiple days once. Rented a lovely one br condo for a month at $30/night via Airbnb or vrbo (don’t recall which)… what we consider a decent price for a site we would stay at with the coach.
2a. There have been several places we’ve had repairs done that allowed us to sleep in the rig on their lot… just had to leave while work was actually being done. For coach work, a lot of places offer 50 amp hook ups. For chassis work, a lot offer to let us plug into a 20 amp outlet to keep fridge running and batteries charging.

3. Get a TSD fleet card and fill with the 18 wheelers at truck stops. (You should consider this even if you keep driving your current set up for the savings.)
3a. Though fair to say maneuvering our first coach (a gasser) around fuel pumps was a bit tricky, not any more so than I imagine a towed tt or fiver. You pay attention to the trailer’s wheels, I paid the same attention to the coach’s rear wheels. The towed car just follows within in the track of the coach. If your coach misses everything, the car will too… you don’t have to do anything different than if you’re driving the coach by itself.

You may well still prefer a truck/trailer setup, many do. But the points you listed for doing so, imo, aren’t worth basing that choice on.

 

[Bearcatrp]

Covid happened. Allot of RV’s built during that time was not the greatest. Mine was one of them. There are a few that QC was good. That 38 to 40 feet is total length. If you’re going to stay with your 3/4 ton, don’t think you will find what you want. Toy haulers are long for a reason. Some ore 2 axle, some are 3 axle. Don’t think the axles can haul much. Hopefully someone here who has one can chime in for better information. Good luck.

 

[steveblonde]

The pin weight on all of those units will require a 3500 series truck not a 2500 but a dually would not be required tou haulers are nose heavy

 

[Tulecreeper]

The pin weight on all of those units will require a 3500 series truck not a 2500 but a dually would not be required tou haulers are nose heavy

Not necessarily.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Not necessarily.

Maybe not "necessarily" but most all the models cited by the OP are heavy enough that they are highly likely to exceed a 2500's cargo capacity. Granted there is a wide range depending on both the truck & the trailer configuration, but as general advice Steve is on the money. Any 5W is going to put 20%-25% of the gross trailer weight on the hitch, meaning a 15,000 lb GVWR toyhauler will require a truck that can handle well north of 3000 lbs of cargo once pin weight, hitch weight, passengers & gear are all added up.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Maybe not "necessarily" but most all the models cited by the OP are heavy enough that they are highly likely to exceed a 2500's cargo capacity. Granted there is a wide range depending on both the truck & the trailer configuration, but as general advice Steve is on the money. Any 5W is going to put 20%-25% of the gross trailer weight on the hitch, meaning a 15,000 lb GVWR toyhauler will require a truck that can handle well north of 3000 lbs of cargo once pin weight, hitch weight, passengers & gear are all added up.

Yes, like mine. So still, not necessarily.

 

[steveblonde]

how many people want to drive a gas base model 2 wheel drive rat truck? - unless you special order it so while "not necessarily" highly highly unlikely

 

[Tulecreeper]

how many people want to drive a gas base model 2 wheel drive rat truck? - unless you special order it so while "not necessarily" highly highly unlikely

Those who want all the cargo and towing capacity they can get. You know, the ones who plan for it and special order like I did. And what is a 'rat truck'?

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

And what is a 'rat truck'?

Google will help you (and me) out. Basically a truck that looks shabby, often intentionally customized to be that way.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Google will help you (and me) out. Basically a truck that looks shabby, often intentionally customized to be that way.

Thanks, I thought that might have been a typo.

Nope, don't have a 'rat truck'. Just a truck I purposely ordered with basically zero options because I wanted the cargo and towing capacity. Since the majority of those options are interior and electrical it looks just like any other truck out there without any frilly exterior bells or whistles. And a diesel engine and extended cab would have cut somewhere around 1700# from my CCC.

 

[RedForeman]

The combination of a somewhat shorter 5th wheel with the separated garage space is what has been so difficult for me to find.

Not really surprising. What you're looking for is very popular. You're unlikely to find one that's not going to require some travel to see and buy. Not to mention, it seems most people that upgrade to an HD pickup from a half ton or suv tend to gravitate toward a 2500 shortbed, for a number of good reasons. Then find out the usual limitations of that choice when the time comes to upgrade the trailer. Already mentioned you haven't posted CCC, but having 2WD is a positive indicator at least.

You didn't mention a budget. That might help readers improve suggestions. I think this may also complicate used campers newer than 2018. The market is flooded with used units people overpaid for when the market was tight during covid, and now they're upside down on value.

If you're on Facebook, join some brand-specific groups. Some even have a buy/sell group where you may find something not otherwise listed in general sales listings you already look on.

Lastly, if you're planning to haul a murdercicle in a toy hauler, inspect/measure the garage area, ramp door, and tie down fixtures carefully. Campers sit higher than cargo trailers as a rule, and have little or no dovetail at the rear. This will make the angle of the ramp door a lot steeper, and also require better ground clearance on whatever you load, as you enter the trailer over the door hinge. Just the past couple of trips loading/unloading a couple e-bikes in mine let me know that getting either of my motorcycles in there would be miserable, requiring a more effort than it would be worth to bring them. Not a big deal, as one of my bikes would probably get me kicked out of most parks anyway, for disturbing the peace LOL.

Good luck with your search.

 

[steveblonde]

A rat truck is also commonly known as a vehicle void of options -a base model - minimal options - Usually built for purpose ie hauling when on a serious budget. Built for a specific client horrible resale value - thus the rat nobody else would want it- kinda like you said. The majority of people buying vehicles these days want creature comforts. Even my 24 bronco had to have a sunroof ( my choice) which means i had to buy other option packages gotta have a sun roof lol. My dually has one my camaro is a convertible and my bronco had to have one too lol

 

[RayIN]

Use this to match a tow vehicle and 5er. https://fifthwheelst.com/index.html