6.5' bed Fifth Wheel Hitch

[307 Tailgater]

You mentioned tongue weight which is for travel trailers. Fifth wheels have pin weight and is a lot different. You really need to look at your trucks maximum payload. That only assumes a driver weight of 150lb so if you weigh more, take the extra off the max Payload. Then take the weight of all passengers from the payload. What is left is all you have for pinbox, pin weight, anything else that is in the truck. Pin weight must never be based on unladen weight.
Are you sure you still want a Fifth wheel on a 1/2 ton?
Our UK setup is on a 1000kg Pickup but the total fifth wheel weight is Only 8500 lb. Very small by US standard.
We very nearly made the weight mistake by thinking of a F250 until we realised we wouldn't be able to carry passengers.
The advice here is just that, advice, from those that have the bruises, none of whom are trying to sell you a new truck.
It is your choice whether to listen.
Having listened to advice here, we have never had a butt clench moment when towing.

I think I'm following you. This is helpful.

What I don't understand is if the trailer has a hitch weight of 1285, then what is the pin weight? If the pin weight is 20% the GVWR, then why are they listing a hitch weight?

I understand that payload of the truck does not include coolers of beer, steaks, passengers, dogs.......

My wife and I are combined 330lbs.

 

[donn]

See my post 20 on the first page.

 

[steveblonde]

Hitch and pin are the same but a cant assure you the pin on a 10000lbs 5er is NOT 1285lbs that would be some creative math its going to be closer to 1900lbs than 1200lbs but even still at 1300lbs +200 hitch +330 you and wife your over 1800lbs and over your payload

 

[Joezeppy]

"Hitch" weight and "Pin" weight are the same thing - just different terms. Pin is normally used for 5th wheels but manufacturers usually use Hitch (they probably think it's less confusing).

In any event, the 1,285 lbs hitch weight listed in the brochure is based on the EMPTY trailer. You will never pull it empty except the day you buy it. 20% of the GVWR is, as you stated, 1,990. Realistically you will be somewhere in between - lets say you end up with 1,500 lbs in the camper - that gives you a total weight of 8,345 and a 20% pin weight of 1,669. 200 lbs for the hitch and your over your CCC of 1,840.

 

[TonyL]

1285lb is roughly 20% of the unladen weight of the trailer, they are calling it hitch weight which is confusing as a fifth wheel has a pin not really a hitch.
As I and others have honestly said, the only time the trailer might be empty is when you collect it, that's why we use the gross trailer weight for a safe calculation. I assume your good lady will want to travel with You, so her weight actually becomes payload ( however attractive that payload may be!)
We are all trying to politely tell you that in our opinion, it's not a good idea to use a half ton.
I assume this is your first Fifth wheel, and if so, consider that you just might want to upsize in the future. Therefore, that's why folk here recommend 1 ton as a minimum for fifth wheels.
As I said in a previous post, no one is trying to sell you anything, you did right by asking the right questions, all we want is for you to be safe and enjoy your towing adventures.
Our UK set up is safe based on 9 years of driving UK roads and no accidents other than too tight a turn once, but in no way does it compare to our US set up. I would not feel as safe with the UK kit here with the length of hills we experience in the US.

 

[Joezeppy]

You may also have a "maximum pin weight" figure listed in your truck's manual somewhere. My CCC is 2,935 but I am further limited to 2,500 lbs pin/hitch weight for 5th wheel or gooseneck trailers. This has do with the rear GAWR.

And FWIW, I have two friends who pulled 9,000-ish lb 5th wheels with with F150 EcoBUST engines (sorry, had to poke fun at you calling it Eco BEAST ) and traded up after just one summer. The trucks were just not up to the task.

 

[TonyL]

Sled head, I've just read your post #14 again. You mentioned the maximum conventional towing weight of your chosen truck, but not it's fifth wheel maximum towing weight. They are different, please do not assume that you can pull a Fifth wheel of the same weight without further confirmation from the truck manufacturers.

 

[Don C]

I bought new, a 2007 Cougar 276RLS that was listed as a 1/2 ton towable 5th Wheel. Brochure showed pin weight at about 1200 pounds. When we picked the 5th wheel up, the truck had a lot of squat. The dealer had us fill the fresh water tank with water before leaving the dealership. Fresh water tank was in the rear of the 5th wheel and it did reduce the squat. He recommended air bags so I added these to my truck. They made for a rough ride if I added enough air so the truck was level. During our first trip, with the trailer fully loaded including the fresh water tank, we stopped at a scales to weigh the trailer. Trailer weighed 9540 pounds unhooked, connected to the truck the trailer weighed 7500 pounds which I assumed meant that my pin weight was the difference of 2040 pounds. I was soon the owner of a 3/4 ton truck.

 

[donn]

What's the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". The OP has lots of great information, when he do with it is up to him I guess.

 

[Bill Nourse]

To answer your original question, I use an Andersen Ultimate hitch with a short bed Duramax, and I can get about 75 to 80 degrees. Anything beyond that and you are just side loading the trailer tires and possibly doing damage. The Andersen is only 35# so that will help you with your useful load. I had a slider in a previous pickup, a 2002 Duramax and never used it in 18 years or so. Now you get to listen to everyone tell you that the Andersen is junk and that if you don't have XYZ hitch rated at a bizillion pounds you are going to destroy the world.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

As Donn says, the hitch/pin weight in the brochure is often the weight as measured on an empty trailer at the factory, surely without any optional equipment and often totally "dry", e.g. no propane or water. There is no standard for how the manufacturer arrives at the numbers in the brochure/webpage other than GVWR and GAWR.

The actual 5W hitch/pin weight will be 20-25% of the actual loaded weight. Experience has shown 20% of the trailer GVWR is a sufficiently accurate estimate of the 5W trailer hitch/pin weight to make a purchase decision. It's "close enough" that you won't break anything.

 

[Joezeppy]

Love my Andersen!

 

[Rob&Deryl]

I think of hitch weight as the mfg empty weight and pin weight as the 20% of GVWR.

one important reason to use the 20% of GVWR is 2 things
1) 20% is an average. My trailer might be 18% or 25%. There is no standard.
2) over time, like first several trips, you will likely put way more stuff in the trailer than you intended. For me, oh a couple more tools, an extra chair, upgrade the grill after a few uses, throw another 20lb propane tank in the truck bed, aw, 2 bundles of firewood instead of 1… you get the idea.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

To answer your original question, I use an Andersen Ultimate hitch with a short bed Duramax, and I can get about 75 to 80 degrees.

Right, you never "must have" a slider but lack of one means the driver has to pay attention when maneuvering into sharper angle turns. Generally that means when backing up, but 70-80 degrees of turn is the same angle whether forward or back.
The extended pin box by itself isn't quite enough to guarantee no cab strike on a shortbed truck, but some trailers have tapered front corners that need less clearance. The exact position of the hitch in the truck bed is also a factor. For two years I towed a 25 ft 5W with two different short bed trucks (a GMC and a Dodge) and never came close to a cab strike with either one, but both could have hit the cab in a really tight turn. I just never needed to turn that sharp.

 

[Rob&Deryl]

I love my Andersen too though I have the “rails” version.

The DW watches the nose to cab distance closely when we back in to a tight site.

 

[TonyL]

The DW watches the nose to cab distance closely when we back in to a tight site.

That's what I trained mine to do

 

[307 Tailgater]

Sled head, I've just read your post #14 again. You mentioned the maximum conventional towing weight of your chosen truck, but not it's fifth wheel maximum towing weight. They are different, please do not assume that you can pull a Fifth wheel of the same weight without further confirmation from the truck manufacturers.

Thank you for making me aware of this! I was unaware of fifth wheel maximum towing weight, a PM can learn something new once in a while!

Google came through for me on lunch break. Luckily we are just looking and seeing what's in our budget (Dave Ramsey Plan).

Fortunately, when it comes to site seeing and camping (tent days), I'm not one that has to be first in the campground and first home. I take it easy while pulling with the truck, no speed racer here! But those declines and side winds can sneak up on a guy, no matter what size of truck and trailer combo they have!

 

[TonyL]

Sledhead, it's not just the descents on hills, we know someone with a gas 250 pulling a TT. It cannot match our diesel pulling our fifth wheel uphill. For what it's worth, F250/350 share engines and gearboxes. Rear axle ratios may differ so if you do decide a bigger truck, the 360/3500 won't be much different in fuel consumption.
We're very glad we went diesel, the engine braking has to be experienced to be believed.
Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[longhaul]

sled..
don't get confused with Fords F150 "max tow" package as it doesn't add any ability for the truck to carry more weight. Its a good package but doesn't max anything.
Most important for any trucks load carrying ability will go to the truck rear axle/tires (rawr) which will carry everything in the back of the cab....in the bed such as the hitch and the trailer hitch (pin) weight.
Figuring payloads is determined by actual scaled front and rear axle weights. Ford dropped the 4050 rawr later and went to a 4550 or 4800 rawr as the 7700 gvwr payload was overloading many owners small 4050 rawr.
Most older F150 with the 7700 gvwr has a 4050 rawr.
Just for a example the truck rear axle may scale at 2400-2500 lbs leaving around 1500-1600 lbs before exceeding rear tire/axle loads.
Get some scalded axle weights then do the math.

 

[richclover]

In the market for a 5th wheel, the models I'm interested in have the king pin extended out in front of the body (see picture).

Truck bed is 6.5', will I need a slider hitch to avoid contact between truck and trailer?

Short bed, Anderson hitch mounted on a B&W Turnover Ball. Works well for me.