A brief rant about ID theft and credit card fraud.

[CharlesinGA]

Without getting too deep in the weeds, A lady friend of mine, has some rental houses. For several years, she has had a guy who was (supposed to be) managing the houses, taking care of maintenance, collecting rent, etc. She set up a joint account with him to handle the funds from the rentals and provide a place to draw money for repairs, taxes, etc. (an out of country relative provided much of the money to purchase the properties.) She is not good at managing anything and just depended on the guy to handle it.

Well, it turns out he has, since at least 2018 if not earlier, created in her name, at least six credit card accounts, possibly more we have not discovered yet, plus personal loans and who knows what else. Its a mess.

My rant is about how one of the banks has handled this so far. (Initials WF if that rings a bell with anyone). She and I together got on the phone and talked with the fraud department and explained the entire situation to them. Well their answer is that the account was opened properly, card activated and used, and they don't see any problems with it. Claims denied. We were given a lengthy claim number, and told that when we had filed a police report, to send it to them.

I tried calling today, got a helpful customer service person, explained the situation, made clear I was not the "account holder" but was assisting her. All I asked for was an email address or a physical US Mail address to send the police report to. When the lady came back, she gave me an email address, but said she was told that it must come from the email address they have on file for the fraudulent account.

So it appears that the only person who can provide information to the bank about the ID theft and fraud, is........ the perpetrator themself.

And to answer questions that will be asked. Yes, accounts with all of the credit reporting agencies have been created and everything frozen. Yes, all of the bank accounts have been closed. And yes, the police reports filed, but they seem to care less.

This is a long and convoluted story which takes me an hour or so to explain to someone, so, suffice to say, its MUCH, MUCH deeper than the little bit I have said here. I just wanted to rant about the CATCH 22 situation the banks have created to get out of these fraud and ID theft claims.

Thanks for hearing me, I just needed to rant after this phone call with the bank.

Charles

 

[bigb56]

I've had issues with WF as well ever since my local credit union left town and I had to do everything through WF. The big banks are ridiculous now and they don't care about how long you have been a customer or how much money you have in their bank, they focus on fees nowadays, and making interest off those foolish enough to put more than a minimal amount of money with them.

You reminded me that I need to look into another credit union.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

What was the goal? Once the accounts are closed and credit frozen, it's not like you can seek judgements yourself. Seems your remedy would be via criminal investigation or civil suit, if the dollar values are enough to chase after. The bank may very well be whole, not much incentive for them to dig very deep into a proceeding that might net them culpability or a loss.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Oldgator73]

Hate to say it but it’s going to get worse. We have two mortgages with WF. Haven’t had any problems yet.

 

[ferfer]

Contact fraud department again, best in person or to get addresses.

 

[workinonit]

I too am curious about what your end goal is with the bank? I think the key was when you said she is not good at managing things. I'm not sure I see where the bank is liable for this. If the accounts were not setup properly then you have a claim. As far as the catch 22, i put that on the person you talked to. That's ridiculous and if the accounts have been closed then someone did that without the signer's signature.

 

[CharlesinGA]

Folks, its called IDENTITY THEFT. If someone uses your ID to create a credit card account or anything else that creates debt in YOUR name, then you want to straighten it out. We were specifically told by WF during the first phone call that when a police report was filed, to provide them with a copy. And yes, we are talking a lot of money, all told between six of the accounts (WF and others) is upwards of $100K owed.

Sadly, it appears that none of the banks or credit card companies require signatures now days. They just take your word that you are really the person applying for the card. All of these accounts were opened online.

Charles

 

[Joezeppy]

Sorry to hear of your friend's misfortune. It's a sad reality that in today's digital/online world, "proof of identity" is too easy to produce by fraudsters.

 

[Chef Duane]

My wife had her business accounts and a personal account with WF. Our mortgage was also with them. When she died it took a year to get all her accounts transferred into my name. Each time I had to do anything involving her accounts I had to provide an original copy of her Texas Death Certificate. After 3-4 times I made a stink and told them they already had 3 copies and did they need another? "For the records" was always the response. Finally when I sold her business it took another few months of WF trying to extract their heads from their hineys to get that straightened out. I was so PO'd I closed all WF accounts and even moved the mortgage over to another institution. When they sent the obligatory "Why did we lose your business" letter I sent them 3 pages of why they suck and how I will never do ANY business with them again. And, if I meet anyone considering doing business with them I would STRONGLY urge them to stay away from WF. WF stinks both on the retail banking side, commercial side, and mortgage side.

 

[MN Blue Skies aka Max]

Without getting too deep in the weeds, A lady friend of mine, has some rental houses. For several years, she has had a guy who was (supposed to be) managing the houses, taking care of maintenance, collecting rent, etc. She set up a joint account with him to handle the funds from the rentals and provide a place to draw money for repairs, taxes, etc. (an out of country relative provided much of the money to purchase the properties.) She is not good at managing anything and just depended on the guy to handle it.

Well, it turns out he has, since at least 2018 if not earlier, created in her name, at least six credit card accounts, possibly more we have not discovered yet, plus personal loans and who knows what else. Its a mess.

My rant is about how one of the banks has handled this so far. (Initials WF if that rings a bell with anyone). She and I together got on the phone and talked with the fraud department and explained the entire situation to them. Well their answer is that the account was opened properly, card activated and used, and they don't see any problems with it. Claims denied. We were given a lengthy claim number, and told that when we had filed a police report, to send it to them.

I tried calling today, got a helpful customer service person, explained the situation, made clear I was not the "account holder" but was assisting her. All I asked for was an email address or a physical US Mail address to send the police report to. When the lady came back, she gave me an email address, but said she was told that it must come from the email address they have on file for the fraudulent account.

So it appears that the only person who can provide information to the bank about the ID theft and fraud, is........ the perpetrator themself.

And to answer questions that will be asked. Yes, accounts with all of the credit reporting agencies have been created and everything frozen. Yes, all of the bank accounts have been closed. And yes, the police reports filed, but they seem to care less.

This is a long and convoluted story which takes me an hour or so to explain to someone, so, suffice to say, its MUCH, MUCH deeper than the little bit I have said here. I just wanted to rant about the CATCH 22 situation the banks have created to get out of these fraud and ID theft claims.

Thanks for hearing me, I just needed to rant after this phone call with the bank.

Charles

Charles I might be missing something. It seems to me that your friend would need to send the bank something in writing authorizing you to act on her behalf and or at a minimum it would have to come from her email address.

 

[ferfer]

She and I together got on the phone and talked with the fraud department

Max She has given WF permission to talk to Charles. The next step is police report to WF Fraud department hopefully resulting in investigation. She must involved in all

 

[MN Blue Skies aka Max]

My wife had her business accounts and a personal account with WF. Our mortgage was also with them. When she died it took a year to get all her accounts transferred into my name. Each time I had to do anything involving her accounts I had to provide an original copy of her Texas Death Certificate. After 3-4 times I made a stink and told them they already had 3 copies and did they need another? "For the records" was always the response. Finally when I sold her business it took another few months of WF trying to extract their heads from their hineys to get that straightened out. I was so PO'd I closed all WF accounts and even moved the mortgage over to another institution. When they sent the obligatory "Why did we lose your business" letter I sent them 3 pages of why they suck and how I will never do ANY business with them again. And, if I meet anyone considering doing business with them I would STRONGLY urge them to stay away from WF. WF stinks both on the retail banking side, commercial side, and mortgage side.

Chef, I'm wondering if a Trust had been set up if that would have avoided some of the problems? DH and I are working with an Estate Attorney with hopes of avoiding some problems.

 

[CharlesinGA]

Charles I might be missing something. It seems to me that your friend would need to send the bank something in writing authorizing you to act on her behalf and or at a minimum it would have to come from her email address.

You are correct, but all I was trying to get was the email address to sent the information to, which they did finally give me, however she does not have an email address, no computer (other than her phone) and doesn't know how to access the internet (other than an app such as Youtube). And why would they insist on receiving the information only from an email address of a fraudulently created account?

Simply put, her brain doesn't work that way. While she seems quite normal, after you get to know her you realize she is not wired the same as everyone else, probably a form of autism. I've known her for 28 years. She used to have a photographic memory, and still does but not as good as before. She has waited tables in Asian restaurants for many years now. I once watched her take drink and food orders for a table of 12. She brought all the drinks to the table and placed them in front of the correct person, and same with the food when it came out of the kitchen, without writing anything down. She was working other tables in the meantime also.

Before she took the citizenship test, I asked her if she had been studying the study guide I had given her. "I flipped thru it once". She aced the test. Her education was in Malay, but the last two years were English, and yes, she still has trouble with the meanings of some English words. She is quite fluent in Chinese however. Just the other day we ate at a Chinese place we had not been in for a long time. The lady waiting the table was the grandmother of the owner. She didn't speak much English. My friend had to translate what we were ordering into the Chinese dialect the woman spoke, and the woman wrote it down in Chinese. That is why many menus have the food described in Chinese characters also, as the wait staff may speak English and not write it, and the kitchen staff may only understand Chinese.

Charles

 

[garyb1st]

It's one of the things that happens when you hire a bunch of inexperienced young people, give them a VP title and let them deal with customers. We've had issues with USB, another major bank.

Many years ago I confronted a young lady over an issue with my checking account. Her initial response was postured with an indignant, "I'm a Vice President". After a few minutes explaining the facts of life, her response was "I'm only a Vice President".

 

[Vanbrat]

Charles I might be missing something. It seems to me that your friend would need to send the bank something in writing authorizing you to act on her behalf and or at a minimum it would have to come from her email address.

She might need to let you be her Power of Attorney.... I think that can be set up for just this one thing. Meaning all the fraud

 

[Chef Duane]

Chef, I'm wondering if a Trust had been set up if that would have avoided some of the problems? DH and I are working with an Estate Attorney with hopes of avoiding some problems.

Dunno'. Maybe. But too late now. I am the beneficiary of a sizable trust set up by my in-laws that passed to me when she died but it can't be touched until my MIL dies. She's 102 and still going strong.

 

[John From Detroit]

When my MIL was alive she had a serious case of Senile Dementia (in fact it's listed as cause of death) I had her sign a Durable Power of Attorney so her taxes and other bills got paid on time and such..

I mention this as it's one of the legal documents that allows you to act on behalf of another. What's the difference between "Durable" and regulare Power of Attorney.
Death of the party you represent. Durable continues after death. Worked out well as that way I was able to handle the post death bills as well.

 

[Onyrlef]

They're not accidentally slow walking you, it's by design. Their intent is that you give up, which many do. It's no different from subscription services that put you on infinite hold and then "mistakenly" disconnect the call after 45 minutes.
Wells Fargo was caught accidentally opening accounts in their customers names several years back, publicly came to Jesus and then a few years later was caught in a money laundering scheme.
The punishment is a parking ticket, they keep 90% of the profit they made operating the scam and give the gov't its take, 10%.
Now that the regulatory agencies have been completely shut down and/or dumbed down to irrelevance it's open season on consumers.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Water under the bridge in this case but the protection that prevents this from happening is freezing your credit. Any attempts to open an account or take out a loan die the instant a credit check is run. I've probably gotten half a dozen letters over the years, DW more, since we've done this advising us of a data breach or security compromise that have yet to result in any financial harm. It's truly a financial brick wall, even with all your personal data out there. In this case if they're credit cards, usually just advising of the fraud limits liability to some nominal amount, then it's on the institution to chase down the perpetrators. Above a certain dollar amount I would guess would trigger a criminal investigation, not sure why the bank is forcing the account holder/victim to do much of anything. But I do get the bureaucracy of these large organizations, and also their indifference. WF in particular treated me with the attitude of we're doing you a favor by holding your money and when I went to close the accounts it was with no remorse or apology, just eff you and have a nice day.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Onyrlef]

It was credit cards fraudulently opened in the victims name ( identity theft), but it wouldn't have mattered if the credit cards were opened under the name of Bozo the Clown. Credit card bills have to be paid and he was obviously able to pay them because he was granted access to her bank account, by her, ie., embezzlement.
And yes, the police could care less, crimes like this are time consuming and unglamorous.