About trailers and how old is too old and how big is too big

[ThinkingDiesel]

So I've got seven kids and (currently) six grandkids. The grandkid number is almost certainly going up.

My wife and I have very recently decided it would be really nice to get an RV rig and take kids and grandkids on camping trips. We're also planning to move to Iowa (from California where all the kids live), and think it would be a great way to go back and forth versus giving our money to the airlines.

Anyway, with that size family, more kind of seems better.

I'm committed to getting my truck with a crew cab and an 8' bed. And we're looking at the LARGE trailers. You know, the kind that sleep a bunch of chitlins.

So, to get a 40' foot travel trailer with a long bed crew cab, we're talking about an overall length of like near 70'. Sounds like a lot, but you do what you gotta do.

But then I find out, waitaminute, a lot of campsites allegedly don't allow trailers over 24'. That kind of stinks.

And I was also thinking about getting a really top-of-the-line 10-year-old trailer like an Airstream or a Thor rather than buying new or recently used after hearing that Covid created a climate where a lot of the RVs were total mass-produced junk. If we buy the new truck I want, we're not going to want to spend another $80k on a trailer right away if we don't absolutely have to. I'd rather have an older, well-maintained high-quality build than a new POS waiting to fall apart because it wasn't built to last. I'd name the brands I'm hearing about avoiding like plague, but I don't want to irk someone whose maybe got one of them.

But that runs afoul of another stinky thing I heard about: the so-called "10 Year Rule." That sounds totally arbitrary. Is that really an issue? I'd hate to buy that ten-year-old trailer and find out the hard way. Just like I'd hate to buy that 45' trailer and find out the hard way I can't take it anywhere.

So, what's the wise move here? Ideally, we'd be into a GBG - that's Great Big Giant - trailer. I found out that I could get a removable 5th wheel, so we'd be looking at both conventional and 5th wheel. And if I get the truck I'm contemplating, weight is not an issue because I would have like 1,000 lb/ft of torque to argue with.

But what's the right size and age? How big is "too big"? And how old is "too old"?

 

[Western Slope]

I can only respond regionally. I usually don't have issues with size once outside of the Rocky Mountains. My concern is getting into and out our small mountain town fuel stations even with our 25 footer behind a Ram 2500 4x4 Crew Cab. Although we have a gasoline pickup, the large spacious diesel and gas truck stops are far between here within the Rocky Mountains. On I-70 the last truck stop before the mountain grades on the west side is in Silt at the Golden Gate station. It's another 176 miles east to the truck stops in Denver which is over the Rockies. There's no truck stops in-between on the Interstate and off on the other highways. We usually cutoff to head north or south through the mountains than to Denver. Only small, compact gas and diesel stations in these mountain towns. No space for big rigs. There's not much maneuvering space for big travel trailers in the mining and ski resort towns. Filling up last in Frisco, Colorado took some tight turns to clear the building and pumps. It was congested with other vehicles.

 

[SMR]

Some campgrounds limit the amount of campers on a site too. We towed a 36 TT behind a crew cab long bed truck and could find sites at state parks and private campgrounds. Of course we could only go to the ones that allowed longer campers.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

I've taken grandkids camping, but not all at once. It's not reasonable or practical to consider housing that many people in a travel trailer. The other option I've exercised is to bring along a tent and the overflow (or I) can sleep in that.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Kirk]

And I was also thinking about getting a really top-of-the-line 10-year-old trailer like an Airstream or a Thor rather than buying new or recently used after hearing that Covid created a climate where a lot of the RVs were total mass-produced junk.

First of all, Airstream is owned by Thor Ind. as are a lot of other brands. Thor Ind. owns 14 different RV companies with those carrying the Thor name near the bottom of the price/quality ratings. No matter what you choose to buy, you would be very foolish to buy without first having the RV checked out by a professional, pre-purchase inspector.

So, to get a 40' foot travel trailer with a long bed crew cab, we're talking about an overall length of like near 70'. Sounds like a lot, but you do what you gotta do.

Have you ever driven a large vehicle like that? You will need at least a 1 ton truck as a minimum to tow any RV for 40' or more and better would be one of the class 8 trucks to be able to tow the largest of trailers. And you need to check with the California DMV about the driver's license that you will need to drive it.

But that runs afoul of another stinky thing I heard about: the so-called "10 Year Rule."

That rule rarely ever is applied to overnight visitors but only to the long term stay and in the vast majority of parks they will inspect the RV and if it looks good, allow it in after it is 10 years old. The important thing about shopping for 10 year old RVs is that then can be either a bargain or a financial disaster.

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

Truck
A crew cab, truck can hold 6 people. If you want to transport more, then you’re going to need a big van at a minimum and that will decrease your towing ability unless you go with a big custom rig.
So a 1 ton (minimum) with a 5th wheel or huge bumper tow. Gas or diesel on the truck? Initial cost, operating cost, and maintenance costs all need to be considered along with towing capacity.
Trailer
I tend to agree with older is better quality. Older is also heavier and usually worn out. Is remolding/restoring in your plan? Perhaps it is or could be to accommodate more people.
A few years old can eliminate the ”new RV issues” that seem to plague nearly everyone. Our Class A was 5 years old when we bought it and we have had absolutely ZERO serious issues. There has been no problem that we could not solve on our own.
Many people complain about 2020-2022 “Covid Campers” lack of quality control.

Have you considered a Class A that will allow more people to travel?

Many commercial camps have the 10 year rule to deter long term residents.
Many gov’t campgrounds have length restrictions due to tight roads and short campsites.Gov’t camps are cheaper, more spacious, and offer more privacy, but often do not have 50 amp or sewer at every site.

 

[Kirk]

A crew cab, truck can hold 6 people.

Just to add a footnote to what both of us said, you need to know also that it is not legal or safe for passengers to ride in a trailer RV.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

First of all, think of an RV as a house, so it's not "too old" if it has been well-maintained and the condition is good. This is especially true on a trailer, where the vehicle mechanical components are simple and not very expensive either.

Second, I'll repeat what the others say: you need at least a one-ton truck for a big trailer, but packing 6 grandkids plus you and gramma into a pickup is not going to make for a pleasant journey. Nor is 8 people in a 40 ft trailer a recipe for happiness - you are talking maybe 350 sq ft of space, 1.5 tiny bathrooms, and a dining area designed for 4 people. Yeah, the kids will be outside most of the day, but what about evenings and rainy weather? Many folks who take kids camping bring tents for the kids, making both a play area and extra sleeping space.

Third: Don't be misled about some of the restrictions you have heard about. While it is true that some campgrounds cannot handle larger RV, there are plenty that cater to the biggest ones. It's simply not true that there is any particular size that is commonly the max, e.g. 24 ft. Obviously the larger the RV, the fewer choices available, but not so few that your travels are badly restricted. Also, the so-called "10 year rule" isn't all that widespread and is mostly used to filter out decrepit rigs in the more upscale parks. Most places that have such a rule on the books won't even question the age of a decent looking RV. You might be asked to provide a photo when making a reservation, though.

Fourth: The truck you need isn't defined by torque & horsepower, though plenty of both is always nice to have. The key factors are the suspension & cargo carrying capacity, especially if you go with a fifth-wheel. Are you aware that a 5W trailer places 20% or more of its total weight on the hitch in the truck bed? That could easily reach 4000 lbs in the size trailer you are proposing. Even a travel trailer (aka "bumper pull") will likely add 1000-1500 lbs of cargo weight to the truck. And don't forget passenger weight - 8 people weigh a lot, even if most are kids.

 

[Ex-Calif]

My wife and I have very recently decided it would be really nice to get an RV rig and take kids and grandkids on camping trips. We're also planning to move to Iowa (from California where all the kids live), and think it would be a great way to go back and forth versus giving our money to the airlines.

Unless you are fabulously wealthy you might want to set some boundaries - Like max number of kids/GKs per trip. Let's say one set is a family of 4 + you and missus makes 6. That's a reasonable number of folks in an RV.

But let's say you are rich. You might consider a 40 ft class a and a smaller TT. You definitely would have to pay for 2 slots per trip but you'd have a lot of space.

Iowa to Ca is a pretty long haul. How often would you do it? Lets say you can get a truck and suitable 5W for $130,000. If you stuck that in the S&P 500 it would spin off $13,000 a year. That doesn't count $1800 or so per trip for gas + about $300 a month to store and maintain a big 5W.

That's a lot of cabin rentals in Shasta, Big Bear, Tahoe etc...

In selection of a truck and based on what you want to do, I would not consider anything less than an F350/3500 optimized for towing.

 

[LMHS]

Why not have the parents of the grandkids buy their own tent/camper?

Did you know that many campgrounds/rv parks limit the number of guests or charge extra for guests over their allotted amount (some rates are set for 2, some are set for 4). I once paid extra for my daughter because our rate was set for 2 not 3.

Most overly large families either take two vehicles, one to tow the camper and one to haul the kids. Or they have one large vehicle (passenger van) pulling a cargo trailer loaded with tents and equipment. Do NOT fall into the "buy a school bus" comments that are sure to pop up. It's has gotten very, very difficult to insure the things (I know, I actually have a converted school bus).

I suggest you buy a place in the countryside to make a "family campground". Someplace you like and want to live at. People move. Some move more often than others. Just because your kids and grandkids live in CA, doesn't mean that they will continue to live there. In a few years, half or all could be living elsewhere.

I got no problem with a few years old on a trailer. But then I have the skills to tear a trailer down to the frame and rebuild it. They all leak because they are all built the same. Unless you buy one that is welded frame and welded skin (yes, there are small places that build expensive RVs like that like 1492 coachworks), it will leak at the seams and corners. And windows. And at the "city" water inlet.


As for the 10yo rule, I wouldn't worry about it for traveling. Just be set up to stay overnight in a parking lot if need be. And yes, sometimes those rules do apply to overnights. I have run into a few that won't let an "older" camper in. although 55+ parks are currently more prevalent than 10+ parks. I stay at neither. I suggest they you go to a review site (rvparky.com for example), and pull up some towns that you think you might go to. Read the reviews and go to the campground/park's website to read their rules and rate restrictions. This will help you to get a good idea for current trends as opposed to reading the forums which are often full of incorrect/outdated info.

 

[Babe2201]

I have to wonder how many family members you plan on bringing at one time on trips. Like LMHS mentioned most campgrounds have limits on how many guests are allowed per campsite.

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

First of all, think of an RV as a house, so it's not "too old" if it has been well-maintained and the condition is good. This is especially true on a trailer, where the vehicle mechanical components are simple and not very expensive either.

I have to disagree with this statement and you have made it before on this site. An RV is more or less a "cross" between a house and a vehicle.
An RV depreciates rapidly to a point that it slows and that rate is dependent on market and condition.
A well-maintained RV depreciates at a slower rate, but it will depreciate, regardless of market (with a rare exception).

A house will seldom depreciate over time unless it is absoulutely not maintained. There will be times of price fluctuation with drops, dips, and spikes.

In 10 years, my house will b e worth more unless I allow it to be uninhabitable and the land remains somewhat steady in value.
No RV will increase in value over 10, 20, 30 years. Maybe in 50 if it is kept pristine and becomes a collector item.

 

[Contributor]

Length is the big concern here. Many campgrounds have narrow and winding roads. I've seen many damaged RVs that got into tight spots and couldn't navigate the turns. Some campgrounds place boulders along the road to protect the sites. I tow a small trailer and have at times wondered if I had ventured too far into a particular road.

 

[WME]

I live in the Rockies. As you seem to be planning on traversing the Rockies.
IMHO Mfg "max tow weight" is a flat land guess. Get the most HP and torque your budget will allow.

 

[Laura & Charles]

We camped next to a a large blended family (kids from his, hers, and ours) that were living full time in Prevost Entertainer model that had been previously owned by Kenny Chesney for touring. It was set up with a master quarters and bunk beds, some triple level. It could sleep 12. They dinghy towed a large 12 passenger van.
Not cheap, even used. But if you’re determined to be able to sleep the numbers you’re talking about in one RV…
The Entertainer line has the wide chrome panels around the bottom and five rooftop A/Cs.

 

[ThinkingDiesel]

Hi again,

First off, wow, I'm overwhelmed with the number of responses and the obvious willingness all ya'all have to offer helpful advice to a newbie. I really appreciate all of you for taking the time to try to get me squared away.

First of all, yes, I am most definitely planning on a 1-ton truck. It's funny how I "evolved" because I was planning on a 3/4 ton. But then my wife asked about camping and I started looking at 1-tons because the camper tops required a much larger payload. Then she mentioned can we take the grandkids, and so I - literally for the first time - started thinking about a much larger trailer. And then I started thinking about diesels. Which is why I'm now going as "ThinkjngDiesel" btw.

I've never owned a diesel truck or diesel anything. I'm worried about the emissions junk and I'm worried about the higher maintenance and want to learn a lot more about it, but at this point, when I'm shopping I'm looking at the high output diesels that make 1,000 ft/lbs. The towing capacities of these trucks are out of this world. I'm willing to buy new or used: what I most want is the sense that I have a truly reliable truck and that I'm covered by a good warranty if there are any problems. If I could get those two things w/ used, I'd do it.

Now, on the other hand, you guys caught me off guard with the number of campers and just how many kids/parents we could take on one trip. I hadn't thought of that. And just to be clear, the reason I decided to join a forum BEFORE I buy anything is so I can not only get my own questions answered, but also to have experienced people point out stuff I never even considered.

I was looking at numbers such as "sleeps X" and seeing numbers like ten. And I'm like, okay, then! Ten it is! And also, as my wife points out, she's Mexican, and the family joke is that you can fit an unlimited number of Mexicans into anything. All the the kids will come to visit our home for big holidays and we literally have kids and grandkids on mattresses and air mattresses on the floor in the family room. No problem. We just want to be together, crowded or not.

I mean, no, I wasn't thinking of trying to take all seven kids and all six grandkids all at once. I was thinking about maybe being able to take like two families, which would be eight. Right now, most of the grandkids are literally babies in diapers. Probably not a good idea to stick them in a tent just yet!

But many of you point out there actually IS a problem. Like how many people are allowed on one campsite, and that no, you can't fit people in the trailer and drive that way, and stuff like that.

So some of you suggested bringing tents for the kids. Which, btw, is how I camped when I was a kid. And the thing about taking an extra car and such.

Anyway, right now, we're in the "dreamer-and-schemer" stage, so we clearly need some cold water of actual reality thrown on our faces. Which is why I joined a forum. I mean, yes, if it's all kinds of crazy to think we can tow our giant trailer to a campsite with eight people and our dog, then I'd rather find out the easy way then the hard way when we show up and no, what the hell were you thinking?

I obviously see from all of your responses that I need to have a much better grasp of what it would actually be like to tow a big, long trailer up narrow mountain roads, that I am probably taking too much for granted on that. I've told my wife that I am planning to buy every safety option and towing option and camera option available for my truck because I understand that I will need all the help I can get driving the thing. But I get the sense that you're saying, "No, it's a lot more difficult than you think it will be."

As for the trailer condition, someone mentioned getting it inspected. I had heard about that and would plan on that. But I would want to be able to inspect a trailer well enough that my trailer would most likely pass that professional inspection so I'd do it ONCE rather than fifty times. So I've watched some videos on how to get on the roof and check for soft spots and seals leaking, and then go inside and look for signs that water got in and caused damage and mold. And have some clue about the electricals and the plumbing. I'd want to learn to do that kind of inspection and then have a pro give the final pre-buy inspection. And what I'm trying to say is that I would rather buy a truly well-made trailer that is older than a brand new one that might be poorly constructed. I'm NOT planning to "restore" because I'd rather learn how to do that gradually, over time with a unit that's good right now but will ultimately have repair issues, than a dilapidated unit that I may not know how to fix.

But your advice and warnings and solutions are helpful to me, because when we really start considering trailers, I'd like to know some good, basic parameters. How big of a trailer do we need? What size should we be looking for? A lot of times it would just be my wife and I. But even just the two of us, having plenty of space would be nice. But from what I'm hearing, there is an upper limit to "reasonable" that is less than what is available on the market.

We haven't even actually started physically looking at trailers yet because I'm telling my wife, I think we ought to have SOME idea of what we're trying to look for before we just start randomly looking. That includes some narrowing down as to the size of the trailer, the age of the trailer, the condition of the trailer. And other stuff I don't even know to have on our radar yet.

So a big one is still, what size trailer should we be looking for? Or what range of size that would be reasonable for what we're planning to do? What are some good models in those size ranges if we decide to get an older, well-cared for rig? What would we want to pretty much just AVOID?

Even just to go look at trailers with no intention of buying anything on those visits, I'd still like to pass myself off as a not-complete idiot (and hopefully not even an incomplete idiot). I'd rather have some kind of knowledge when I go even just to look.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

At this stage it seems your eyes are bigger than your stomach. That it's set in stone that you'll have a menagerie every trip you go on. I got the same hard requirement when we (she) was RV shopping, literally down to what grandkid was going to sleep where and where everyone was going to sit for family banquets. But that's grandma talking, the kids have other ideas including forgoing the ridiculous notion that they would ever go camping with us. A few have, some have only stayed in our RV as a crash pad when visiting, and some, never. And if indeed you accommodate for the extreme, consider that likely most any other time it might be just you and DW and how willing you would be to drag that contraption around for just the two of you. Fast forward half a dozen years and suddenly the too-small RV we got ended up being right sized. A colleague of mine being of south of the border cultural heritage is seemingly related to a third of New Mexico and his family campouts are of similar described congregations. Their solution is to reserve a group site and each family brings their own camper.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Tulecreeper]

No one has brought up the sticky little rule that most states have about your total length of rig - tow vehicle + trailer - being 65 feet maximum...some are 60 feet. I guess it depends on the trailer itself, actually. You didn't say whether that "40-foot" trailer is the box length, or the total exterior length. Even a 40-foot total-length trailer added to the length of your tow vehicle will be pushing that 60-65 foot length.

 

[ButchW]

You have to realize that no matter how big your trailer is, you’ll on be able to fit 5 or 6(with a front bench seat) in the crew cab truck… So unless someone else drives another vehicle, that will be your limit of family you’ll be able take camping...
Butch

 

[Kirk]

squared away.

That comment makes me wonder if you, like me, are ex-Navy as that is a common Navy term?

The towing capacities of these trucks are out of this world. I'm willing to buy new or used: what I most want is the sense that I have a truly reliable truck and that I'm covered by a good warranty if there are any problems. If I could get those two things w/ used, I'd do it.

.Not every diesel truck has the same towing capacity and there are many of the highest quality fifth wheel trailers that push the limits for a 1 ton truck. In addition, it will cost you more to buy a medium duty diesel truck or even a new 1 ton diesel truck than it would to get one of the class 8 trucks that has been converted to to a fifth. It is true that the maintenance is more expensive for diesel trucks and lately the fuel is also, but there are clearly the best choice for anyone thinking about a fifth wheel in the 40' or more length. Higher quality also mean increased weight.

also to have experienced people point out stuff I never even considered.

I am thinking that you need to spend some time window shopping RVs in order to start to even know what you should be considering. The very biggest RV is tiny compared to even a small house and everything in it is more compact. You need to look at things like the size of the bathroom in them, the bedroom space and access to the beds. To use the full sleeping capacity means that you convert the table into a bed each night and then back to a table in the morning. It usually means shower only and not bathtub and if there is a tub it will be tiny. Kitchens have very limited counter space and if you are parked where you do not have complete hookups for water, sewer and electricity, then you have only a limited supply of each.

And also, as my wife points out, she's Mexican, and the family joke is that you can fit an unlimited number of Mexicans into anything. All the the kids will come to visit our home for big holidays and we literally have kids and grandkids on mattresses and air mattresses on the floor in the family room. No problem. We just want to be together, crowded or not.

Any RV will have far less floor space for people to sleep but there are family tents that work fine if the family has a little bit of basic knowledge. If you choose carefully there will be restrooms, showers, and other amenities that can be used to extend the number of people but you will need to get more than 1 campsite in most parks if you take 3 families.

oI was thinking about maybe being able to take like two families, which would be eight.

Two families and yourself makes 10. Even the largest crew cab, 4 door truck will not accommodate 6 adults and 4 children. Very few RVs have enough comfortable sleeping spade for 3 separate couples, ignoring the 4 children.

Probably not a good idea to stick them in a tent just yet!

Families of all ages camp in tents. Our youngest son was 3 months old when he began to stay in a tent while camping and we didn't have an RV to use at all but used the campground facilities. It does require some camping equipment to do so in comfort and even a little knowledge but with an RV there for relief and meals that makes the experience pretty easy. For the number of people that you wish to take, tenting is a very good option, especially with you inexperienced in driving very large vehicles.

Anyway, right now, we're in the "dreamer-and-schemer" stage, so we clearly need some cold water of actual reality thrown on our faces. Which is why I joined a forum.

But I get the sense that you're saying, "No, it's a lot more difficult than you think it will be."

Driving a big truck with a very large fifth wheel is not particularly difficult but it does have a major learning curve, especially if you have no previous experience driving large vehicles. Everything you do takes longer and more space than with your car or pickup truck. You might be wise to get an RV driving instructor to work with you but you do that in your own RV so you can't do that first. It might help some if you were to rent a large truck and trailer and drive it around through city traffic for a day or two.

And what I'm trying to say is that I would rather buy a truly well-made trailer that is older than a brand new one that might be poorly constructed.

There is no RV made that is so high quality that it can't be made into junk in a few years of abuse and neglect and there are few that are so bad that they can't be made into even better by an owner who does maintenance religiously and makes improvements as he uses it. Here is a downloadable check list that you can use to get a feel for the condition of an RV before you pay a professional.

How big of a trailer do we need? What size should we be looking for? A lot of times it would just be my wife and I.

About the biggest trailers made are between 40 & 45 feet and require a class 8 truck to tow them safely. While you may be willing to pack people in like sardines in a can for the nights, what happens when it rains the entire time that you are gone? I have been RVing for more than 50 years and have never seen an RV that I would consider comfortable for 10 people on a rainy day.

We haven't even actually started physically looking at trailers yet because I'm telling my wife, I think we ought to have SOME idea of what we're trying to look for before we just start randomly looking.

Until you actually look at some trailers, how do you expect to be well educated about them? It seems to me that you really have no grasp of the capabilities or limitations of what you are considering. You need to spend some time just looking at at every possible RV choice first, just to get a feel for what is available. Until then it is impossible to know what to ask about, let alone what will work for you.

Even just to go look at trailers with no intention of buying anything on those visits, I'd still like to pass myself off as a not-complete idiot (and hopefully not even an incomplete idiot).

There are salespeople who know very little more than you, but until you spend some time looking at what is available, how can you even know if what they tell you is accurate? Experienced salespeople love to get someone like you who pretends to know more than they really do as they are an easy target for selling things that experienced RV folks won't even look at. If you hope to make good choices, you need to get out there and look at everything, asking questions and listening to the pitches, while leaving your money at home and just taking notes. Once you do that, you will be ready to return here and ask questions base on what you see and hear.