About trailers and how old is too old and how big is too big

[NMJEEP]

Have you thought about buying a small ranch? lol

 

[JudyJB]

That is a huge trailer to be towing back and forth to California, plus I think you have great ideas but are being unrealistic about the joy of traveling with a lot of kids and grandkids. I think that you will NOT want to take the whole set of kids and grandkids with you. Or at least you won't want to do that after the first trip!!

Much better is to get something smaller that sleeps maybe 5-6 and put the bigger kids in a tent. And you can always get the parents to come visit you, and bring the kids with them. Or, depending on their age, get a teenager to drive a couple of his siblings or cousins to visit you.

You did not mention ages, but I can guarantee that teenagers are good for only a few years. Once they hit about 15 or 16, they will have part-time jobs, or friends, but in any case will no longer want to camp with grandparents. (Trust me on this one. One of my worst car trips in my life was with a 16 year old, and my older son is also getting to the point where he and his wife no longer enjoy taking two older (15 &17) teens camping because they never want to do anything and prefer other activities. )

Much better is to take one or two younger grandkids camping at a time. The fewer, the more likely, you will get to know the i individual kids and they will have a better time with the attention you can give them.

 

[LMHS]

I have twin girls. They started out in the cabin tent, in diapers. They slept in a soft-sided "Pack & Play" play pen. It folded up like a bag chair and took up slightly more room. Shortly after they were born, we bought a used hardsided Apache Pop-up camper (no canvas) for $1500 and used it from 1987 until we sold it in 2005. We put a lot of miles and a lot of fun into that camper. We also used it as a "spare room" when we visited family (road only ran one way and we had to to all the traveling). We even lived in it while looking for houses to rent when we moved to a new state. Once we lived in it for 18 months. We "upgraded" to a used Class C. Later I converted a school bus that we had used as a moving van into a residential vehicle. In hindsight, I would have stuck to towables. It's easier to replace a tow vehicle than the entire camper, especially if it is something that has special mementos built into it.

As for my kids, they grew up, one has her own kid and goes tent camping. The other got the old Class C and lived in it until my husband passed, then she, her dog and all her stuff moved in with me and my stuff.

You can learn to change diapers anywhere, including in tents. I have changed diapers, on my lap, while stuck in Atlanta Traffic on the I-285 "Parking Lot" on our way to FL. Not too shabby considering that I had been a Mom for less than 2 months at the time. And that trip is when we decided we needed a camper of some sort to use as a rolling hotel room. Seems my mother-in-law forgot that babies need diapers changed and they sleep a lot. You would think someone who had 5 kids would remember that.

 

[Professor David]

This topic reminds me of the movie "the long, long trailer" (1953)

 

[ThinkingDiesel]

Hi again,
This is mostly directed to Kirk, as he spent a lot of time interacting with me. Which I appreciate. I'm telling my wife the things I learn from ya'all.

So first of all, I'm actually an Army infantry vet. It often seems that the Navy more than any other branch has very different terminology. But "squared away" is universal, it appears. We were bombarded with "chickensh*t discipline" and ultimately we learned the purpose was to make sure we were all on the same page and could rely on one another to do what we were trained to do: if you can't polish your buttons and shine your boots, etc, like everyone else, then how could we trust you to keep it all together and follow orders when we were downrange? That's why military culture BREEDS OCD. But most of us get out organized and ready to roll and "squared away." That's true of any branch of service that has to prepare for battlefields, whether air, land or sea. Thanks for your service, Kirk. My dad was Navy.

Second, nope, I did the math right (except for the dog!). My wife and I and two daughters with their husbands and one baby each = 8. We've got one family with two kids, but we would probably have to take just them from what I'm hearing.

And yes, as ButchW points out, our limit in our truck would be FIVE. Because the trucks we're looking for have captain's-style front seats, not bench. Not gonna give up that captain's seat. I'm sure Kirk being Navy would understand.

I'm already telling my wife that we've probably got to tone down the number of the family we think we could take at one time. Given not only the limit of the truck, but also the limit of how many per campsite.

Kirk thinks we ought to go out "window-shopping" right away. Well, that will make my wife happy. She's ready to go as soon as we get back from a wedding of one of our daughters in the central coast this coming weekend. I'm more excited about my future giant-torque diesel truck; my wife is the one who had already fallen in love with the idea of the "RV lifestyle."

Now something you said, Kirk, intrigues me:

"Not every diesel truck has the same towing capacity and there are many of the highest quality fifth wheel trailers that push the limits for a 1 ton truck. In addition, it will cost you more to buy a medium duty diesel truck or even a new 1 ton diesel truck than it would to get one of the class 8 trucks that has been converted to to a fifth."

I am, fwiw, looking at a high output diesel. The 6.7L Ford Powerstroke is producing like 1,200 lb/ft of torque! It's beyond amazing. From what I've seen, that ought to be more than enough to tow what I would want to tow. That said, I DO want single rear wheels rather than dualies. But I'm still trying to figure out what I'd need. And then there's the thing about class 8 trucks. Aren't those the big semi trucks? Aren't those things like over $200k? I might get shocked at the actual purchase of the trucks I'm looking at, but I've done several of the "build your own truck" with Ford, Chevy and Dodge and have seen. As an example, checking pretty much everything I wanted with the F-350 Lariat Powerstroke, I got an MSRP of $84,855 which includes $22k worth of add-ons. And that was with no "get an internet price". The Chevy 3500 Duramax with all the options I wanted was actually a fair deal cheaper. Mind you, they aren't giving the things away, are they?

So I'd be interested in understanding which class 8 you're talking about.

 

[Larry N.]

But "squared away" is universal, it appears.

I certainly agree with that. I was Air Force and heard it there, but I've heard it all over civilian life, as well -- it's far from just Navy.

am, fwiw, looking at a high output diesel. The 6.7L Ford Powerstroke is producing like 1,200 lb/ft of torque! It's beyond amazing. From what I've seen, that ought to be more than enough to tow what I would want to tow. That said, I DO want single rear wheels rather than dualies.

Without the dual rear tires you limit your load capacity quite a bit, by comparison. And you keep talking about power and torque. While they are important, much else is needed, too, because keeping a big trailer under control requires a truck structure and a suspension and braking and leverage (length, etc.) and such that aren't readily available in many pickups. It's more than acceleration, since strong winds (whether natural or the wake of big trucks), and adverse road conditions, even some traffic maneuvers (especially emergency types) can easily overwhelm the large trailer/lesser truck combination.

then there's the thing about class 8 trucks. Aren't those the big semi trucks? Aren't those things like over $200k?

Used prices can be under $100K.

 

[Ex-Calif]

Go to a bunch of RV dealers and start kicking some tires. I would also consider a bunkhouse layout.

I know you are "early days" but do have your kids been told about this plan?

I am gonna be honest. If my FIL suggested I use my limited vacation to stay 2 weeks in an RV with my brother in law by marriage and all our kids, I would be like, "Sure. Let us know where we are going and I will get a room near by and we'll visit every day." I'd do that once. I would not plan every vacation with father in law.

You have 3 sets of married adults and pretty much zero privacy. To sleep 10 you have probably 2 jack knife sofas and the dinette turned into a bed. Then you have to consider everyone's sleep schedules.

I am an early riser and like to have my coffee and a read in the mornings. I had a buddy bunk with me for 4 months. I gave him the berth so in the mornings I could cook and fart around and he could sleep in.

I am not saying RVing is a bad idea or trying to kill a dream here. Plan your RV life around you and your wife with the occasional trip with on or the other family.

 

[TheBar]

The traveling with kids part is a bigger deal than anything else. When I got my first trailer we had 1 child. By the time we had 3 traveling was a nightmare. They may be little angels but pack 3 in the backseat and they soon become little devils. We had no choice but to switch to a motorhome. That motorhome had 9 seatbelts, two in front, 4 at the dinette table, and 3 on the sofa. That gave them space and the devils became angels again.

Fast forward to being empty nesters. We switched back to a trailer. But the motorhome had spoiled us. The hitching and unhitching of a trailer no longer made sense. Stuck with motorhomes for the past 20 years. There are some issues with getting into gas stations but nothing like towing a trailer.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Once you end up camping with a particular subset of grandkids, it can be a fun experience. Right out of the chute they're fed soda and junk food, handed knives and we play with fire. I never expected the set of FRS radios I have would keep them busy running around the campground an entire afternoon. Getting wet/muddy/dirty is encouraged. I never sweat the sleep schedule - it's my house and the dogs are my alarm clock. Besides, kids can sleep through most anything. This isn't three weeks in a remote wilderness, a few days in a campground is about all the attention span they have, and patience we have and then it's back to mom and dad. Given the short durations and sporadic nature of these outings, the last thing I would do is plan for a full house every trip. Limit it to whatever capacity you have, and going forward I'd bet (for reasons stated above) you'll have even less than that when it happens.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Tulecreeper]

Maybe I missed it. Did the OP say they actually spoke with their gaggle of family and that everyone is on board with this giant, non-stop fraternal trip?

 

[Babe2201]

Maybe I missed it. Did the OP say they actually spoke with their gaggle of family and that everyone is on board with this giant, non-stop fraternal trip?

Very good point. I have several times tried to rent a huge house or several hotel rooms for a trip with our 3 sons, in-laws, and grandkids and can never get commitments for it.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I have to disagree with this statement and you have made it before on this site. An RV is more or less a "cross" between a house and a vehicle.
An RV depreciates rapidly to a point that it slows and that rate is dependent on market and condition.
A well-maintained RV depreciates at a slower rate, but it will depreciate, regardless of market (with a rare exception).

Everything you say is true but not the point I am trying to make. I'm talking about the important factors to be considered when selecting an RV to buy. At that point, you've already decided to bite the depreciation bullet. Newcomers near always focus on vehicle factors such as engines and fuel economy or towability or overall length, but (IMO) they should instead be looking at roof, plumbing, electrical, heating & cooling, kitchen usability, etc. In other words, the same factors you would prioritize when shopping for a home, whether house or apartment. So my message is to stop thinking like a car buyer and start thinking like a home buyer.

 

[ButchW]

We camp with our son and grandkids since the GKs were born, but my son has his own rig, and we have ours…. There have been a few times when my son had to work, and couldn’t go, and the DIL and GKs bunked in with us…. But she drove her own car… We do mostly group camps with friends and family, so there were always others to help keep the kids busy… The GKs are now 16 and 22, and the 22 yr old GS is working and has his own interest, so doesn’t go with us as much any more… We desert ride and beach camp mostly, so there is still interest for them… Long winded way of saying your family ideas are great, but loading everyone up in one rig for an extended road trip, may not be viable, but if you can get your kids interested in camping, and get there own rigs, the group camp idea is excellent….
Butch

 

[ButchW]

Everything you say is true but not the point I am trying to make. I'm talking about the important factors to be considered when selecting an RV to buy. At that point, you've already decided to bite the depreciation bullet. Newcomers near always focus on vehicle factors such as engines and fuel economy or towability or overall length, but (IMO) they should instead be looking at roof, plumbing, electrical, heating & cooling, kitchen usability, etc. In other words, the same factors you would prioritize when shopping for a home, whether house or apartment. So my message is to stop thinking like a car buyer and start thinking like a home buyer.

I think this is 100% true for a towable…. But for a motor home, I believe you need to look at both…. Vehicle and home buying … To be fair, since I bought my used MH, I have only had issues with the ”house” part of it, and that was because I prioritized the “vehicle“ side… On a MH don’t neglect looking at both…
Butch

 

[DutchmenSport]

I've read all the posts on this thread and everyone has good and valid points. There's not much I can add that hasn't been said already.

With that, my strongest suggestion is for you to go and actually do some window shopping (in person) at different campers, RV, trailers, fifth wheels and see what everyone is actually talking about.

If there are any RV shows going on in your neck of the woods, this is a great way to look at a bunch of models all gathered in one location. Plus you can roam freely without being bombarded by sales people.

For every response and every comment made in these forum posts, there is someone who will give you an opposite opinion or an opposite experience.

Here's only 1 example. The statement above was made it is illegal to ride in a travel trailer. That may be true in some states, I know for a positive fact it is acceptable in Indiana. Travel Trailer, Fifth Wheel, or a utility trailer, on open bed pick-up truck, or a hay wagon, all legal for passengers in Indiana.

Do folks actually do it? No! Although perfect legal, folks still have some common sense to know the dangers of what "could" happen if the rig was in an accident. But the fact is, it IS legal in Indiana. So, there is only 1 (small) example of someone taking the opposite stand.

In the end, only YOU can decide what is right for you. You can have a 40 foot long travel trailer that is designed to suite only 2 people (called a "couple's trailer"). And then you can have a 40 foot travel trailer that is designed to sleep 10.

My next door neighbor has a 29 foot Coleman travel trailer that can actually sleep 10 and none are on the floor. I have a 41 foot fifth wheel that is "designed" for sleeping only 2. But couches can be opened up and it could sleep 6 full grown adults easily. But, it's designed for 2.

So, the only way you will know if a 35 footer, or a 15 footer will work for you is to just GO and see for yourself. That's the best thing you can do.

Formulate opinions on what you like and don't like. You will be your own best guide.

And yes, state parks usually limit 1 campsite to 6 people. Private parks have their own rules. They can establish whatever rule they want, since they are "private owned."

 

[TonyL]

Larry N makes an excellent point. Do not get hung up on torque and HP. Much more important is what the actual payload of your chosen truck is.
Do not go buy manufacturer's data, they are guides only. You must refer to the Yellow sticker on the driver's door frame as it relates to that actual vehicle.

 

[ThinkingDiesel]

That is a huge trailer to be towing back and forth to California, plus I think you have great ideas but are being unrealistic about the joy of traveling with a lot of kids and grandkids. I think that you will NOT want to take the whole set of kids and grandkids with you. Or at least you won't want to do that after the first trip!!

Much better is to get something smaller that sleeps maybe 5-6 and put the bigger kids in a tent. And you can always get the parents to come visit you, and bring the kids with them. Or, depending on their age, get a teenager to drive a couple of his siblings or cousins to visit you.

You did not mention ages, but I can guarantee that teenagers are good for only a few years. Once they hit about 15 or 16, they will have part-time jobs, or friends, but in any case will no longer want to camp with grandparents. (Trust me on this one.

I'm listening to you guys, plus I'm also understanding that some of the places we're wanting to go ("up in the mountains") would require a smaller trailer than the mega-giant 45" we would otherwise get.

Our oldest grandaughter will be ten this December. We've got a 3-yr old, and three that are literally about 6-months or younger. So we've got a few years until they reach the dreaded "apathetic teenage existentialist." And while our 10-yr old can change, I sure do believe that she'll stay as sweet as she is now! She would have a ball camping!

I mean, every family dynamic is obviously different. I see that several of you like TheBar, Tulecreeper and Babe2201 are pretty darn suspicious of of our family plan being unrealistic hopium. And then there are a couple like Mark_K5LXP and ButchW who had things work out very well in their family trips.

I can only say that yes, we've told them and actually they're all pretty excited both for us (because this is their mom's dream and they're happy when their mom gets her dreams satisfied) and because they genuine love being together as a family. Most of the time, we've done a huge Airbnb and had the whole clan meet in places like Big Bear or Lake Tahoe or somewhere where we can all meet. We do it once a year, sometimes twice. It's not easy to get everyone on the same schedule, but they try and usually at the end of the day literally everyone shows up. We always end up overflowing whatever house we rent. It's quite probable that we'll continue to do that, and we'd be able to pull up in our trailer and use it for "overflow" and we'd obviously have our own digs in our own bed. That would be fine.

And then yes, if we were in town, most of the kids would very eagerly do a weekend camping trip. Actually, a couple of the girls and their husbands have made camping out of their vehicles (one has a Nissan Rogue and they've camped out of it like 40 times!). Our oldest daughter wouldn't "camp" but she'd RV if she had a decent indoor bed.

I mean, no, they wouldn't want to go RV camp with us every week, but even we're not that crazy. But yes, I truly do believe that we'd get each one of the oldest five being very happy to do a getaway with their folks at least once a year (twice maybe) in addition to the giant mega-Airbnd-gathering that I think we'd still do just because of the logistics.

That said, my wife and I are discussing what kind of use we think we'd put a trailer through with the kids and listening to you guys about how that would practically work out. We ultimately plan to do most of our trips just us. And then there's times when we'd take my mom to visit her family that live in other states.

My wife's plans actually MOSTLY are just about the two of us travelling to places we would otherwise never see. The kids are just "gravy" as they say.oo.

In response to TonyL who advised me not to get hung up on horsepower and torque, I'm sorry, but I just can't help myself. My wife is the one who is the most excited about the RV lifestyle. Me, I mostly just want that truck! And yes, it might be a mental condition. As a veteran, I assure you I've already been diagnosed with a couple of those.

We do understand that these things DEPRECIATE. But we also understand that at the end of the day, they are still assets and there will still be residual value if and when we decide our adventure is over. Versus flying all over and using hotels most of which don't have kitchens.

Yes, a dually would be better for pure towing. If we did end up getting a much larger trailer, we'd probably have to end up with one. As it is, I'm looking right now for a 1-ton single rear wheel diesel truck. And figuring on overinflating the tires when we're towing. But that's the kind of thing we have to figure out.

DutchmenSport advises we start going and looking. My thoughts were to kind of do some research first before doing that partially to keep my wife from getting too excited about something before we'd done any thinking and zipping off to the moon.

She is VERY excited about looking for trailers. We've got a daughter's wedding this weekend to be part of (it's a five-plus-hour drive to get there and my wife's been very active assisting our daughter with plans). So we've been pretty busy. But after that, she is very eager to hit the RV dealers.

Gary RV_Wizard says, "my message is to stop thinking like a car buyer and start thinking like a home buyer" by focusing on the practicalities and essentials. I'm watching vids on what goes wrong with trailers, how bad various problems can be, how to fix things. We're not buying a trailer in place of a home, but my wife is planning on outings that will have us travelling for at least three months a year - not counting the kids. So it actually will be a home.

 

[ThinkingDiesel]

P.S.

I just watched Professor David's clip. Yes, that's my wife and I, all right. The only difference is that in our case, I'm the white one and she's the Latina. But if I were to watch "I Love Lucy" again, I can assure you that I would be VERY SYMPATHETIC to poor Ricky Ricardo.

 

[Kirk]

I'm listening to you guys, plus I'm also understanding that some of the places we're wanting to go ("up in the mountains") would require a smaller trailer than the mega-giant 45" we would otherwise get.

What is your experience driving large vehicles? Have you ever driven a heavy truck with a large trailer? You are looking at spending a lot of money to get into something that you have no experience with. Have you considered renting an RV for a week or two just to learn before you buy? Have you driven through any campgrounds to consider what it takes to back a very long trailer into the sites there? Until you actually spend some time in the RV choices and study the places that you want to take the RV, I don't think we can give you much valid guidance. If you have never driven anything bigger than a pickup truck you will have a huge learning curve and it probably won't be much fun while you are learning. There are also safety issues to consider and driving skills are an important part. There is a saying in the RV world that it is difficult to have too much truck. The larger the trailer is when compared to the tow vehicle the more challenging it will be to drive and maneuver.

 

[Ex-Calif]

We always end up overflowing whatever house we rent. It's quite probable that we'll continue to do that, and we'd be able to pull up in our trailer and use it for "overflow" and we'd obviously have our own digs in our own bed. That would be fine.

That said, my wife and I are discussing what kind of use we think we'd put a trailer through with the kids and listening to you guys about how that would practically work out. We ultimately plan to do most of our trips just us. And then there's times when we'd take my mom to visit her family that live in other states.

This is an excellent plan. A 26-27 foot TT would be much easier to tow, cheaper initial investment and for most of the time when you are traveling as a couple is a really good size - IMO.