Airstream - New Switching system

[PancakeBill]

Have any of you checked out the new Airstream system?  Alde hydronic furnace, C-Zone controls, multiplex switching.  Pretty complex, at least at first.

The Alde is mostly straightforward, touch screen, but many options.  The Clone system, controls all sorts of stuff, and can be frustrating initially.  I am working as a walk thru tech this winter, and in the past week did 3 walk thrus with these.  Can be intimidating of our older RVers.  I know some of you out there have been into the multiplex for years, but this is I think a step above.

example.  Fan and light in the shower.  Have to activate the switches from the CZone for the labelled switch to actually work.  First time that happened was a surprise.

Tomorrow morning I have to bring a stack of index cards to a new owner in his late 80's to diagram what to do to turn on the overhead fantastic.  Yipes.  There goes my day off this week.

Certainly not initially intuitive. 

 

[Koodog]

Bill,
In your example are you saying the control system has a touchscreen switch in series with a mechanical switch?

 

[PancakeBill]

Essentially, it is a touch screen that activates a physical switch, it is not mechanical as I would describe manual, like a wall light switch, it is on a multiplex system, just a light touch. 

Nce system, but overly complicated for senior seniors.  Not the new seniors, but the seniors that have been seniors for a bit.  I am working with a couple in their late 80's that bought this and they are on a very steep learning curve.

 

[Koodog]

"Have to activate the switches from the CZone for the labelled switch to actually work"

This is what threw me. 2 software switches? Confused.
Us control engineers are like that.
I get that the touchscreen activates an output to turn on a device, but the labeled switch comment has me at a loss.

 

[PancakeBill]

well, central command activates or deactivates the physical buttons where it is more convenient.  Command midships over dinette, but a switch at the door to hit lights when entering.
To make it even more interesting you can download an app and control from your phone from another state!

 

[Old_Crow]

well, central command activates or deactivates the physical buttons where it is more convenient.  Command midships over dinette, but a switch at the door to hit lights when entering.
To make it even more interesting you can download an app and control from your phone from another state!

I had trouble when I went from a coach with all the switches on the light fixtures themselves to one with switches on the wall like a house, and I'm not even a senior senior(I don't think). 
This just seems like using tech just to be using it, not for any good reason(well, it gives the sales pukes something to talk about, I guess).

I can understand wanting to control the lights at your S&B from another location so it appears someone is home, but don't see the need in a motor home at all.

 

[Koodog]

Multiple inputs....got it!
Thanks.

 

[PancakeBill]

As to the features, multiplex switching saves a lot on copper in the coach.  Weight and cost.  The app feature?  Well it has been done for a bit, it has to be set up plus in a cell zone.  But, you can check on temps, locks etc from afar.

The customer I am working with  right now however just wants to turn the lights on and off.

 

[ChasA]

In 2008, i went to the Good Sam rally in Perry, Ga. There was a very high end Prevost conversion there that had a multiplex system that you could control everything with a tablet. You could even flush the toilet. Imagine flushing it when a guest is using the toilet.

 

[thesameguy]

I don't know about Airstream or Prevost, but over the past few years I spent some time with folks who do limo conversions of Mercedes Sprinter vans, and was blown away by the various implementations of generic canbus controls. For example, one upfitter in SoCal did a GREAT job making intuitive control systems for massage chairs, full 5.1 surround sound, HVAC, and ambient lighting. Another from Indiana did a TERRIBLE job, requiring the driver enable switch packs in the cabin before they would work, but then giving the driver no further control. For example, in order for the passengers to turn on the AC, the driver had to press the "AC" button up front, but the driver could not control the rear AC. If you wanted to cool down the cabin, you had to press the button, run around to the side, then turn the AC on from the rear. WTF? Bear in mind, both upfitters were using the SAME canbus switches, just radically different implementation.  It was clear the SoCal folks had some real engineers on staff and the Indiana folks read the install brochure and not much more.

Probably the RV business is where the auto business was a decade ago - now that they know they can do it, they need to figure out how they should do it. It's a lot of studying human behavior! I don't mind firing up the tablet to turn on the AC at home and save myself a walk to the other end of the house, but I'm not sure there's a time savings when the AC is 10' away in a motorhome!

 

[donn]

Esentially its just more crap to fail at the most inopportune time. RVing is suppose to be all about simplifying your life, getting back to nature.  Back in the old days you reached up to turn on the AC, flipped a switch to turn on the heat.  Now its all controlled thru a complicated digital display that will fail.  No thanks.

 

[thesameguy]

It's not all doom and gloom. There are some big upsides. My 1993 Southwind has an INSANE collection of electronics that work so you can turn the stereo on from three places. None of that works with a modern "electronic" radio, it was designed to be used with an old "mechanical" dual shaft radio. Probably 5lbs of electric brains and another 5lbs of wire that doesn't work with any decent stereo made after 1995. There is a complicated circuit board to divvy up power and mountains of wire running all over the place to connect this switch to that light and a whole subsystem dedicated to turning on the water pump. Bus-based (CAN or otherwise) systems means you have a pair of wires - or maybe a pair of a pair of wires - that hits every points in the coach and ties it all back to one place. It seems very black-box-y, but the upside is *far* less weight and fewer points of failure, plus substantial ease when adding new components. I used a bus system to control the air ride in my '67 Fleetwood and everyone is amazed at what's done with four wires (network, power, ground). Usually a system like this requires a couple dozen wires running all over the place. Made for a simple, clean install and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

Man, I would kill to be able to turn the roof AC in the Southwind from the driver's seat. Not being able to control the HVAC while driving is like... what?

 

[Larry N.]

RVing is suppose to be all about simplifying your life, getting back to nature.

That may be your desire, but RVing is different things for different folks, so don't put that on everyone. I've had plenty of "back to nature" with tent camping over a lot of years, and now that I'm old comfort is a major factor for me, even more so for DW. Basically, for us, RVing is taking our mobile apartment where we want to travel, as well as making new friends and seeing existing friends.

 

[thesameguy]

Admittedly, it's odd hearing "back to nature" followed by "turn on the AC."